Guy Banister and the CIA

[Steve Roe]

On 8/17/2022 at 3:17 PM, Tom Gram said:

Has anyone actually alleged that Bannister was murdered in this thread? It's not like it was impossible to kill someone untraceably, and say what you will about Dephine Roberts but she did work for Bannister and thought his death was unnatural: 

Can murder really be completely ruled out? Of course not, especially if what Ben said is true and Bannister thought he was about to be killed (I don't know the source for that) - but there isn't enough evidence to prove that Bannister was murdered, nor the same overtly suspicious circumstances as Ferrie so I do agree that his death should be accepted as natural.  

Off topic, but in trying to find this Roberts quote I found another quote where she said one of her husbands was named Harry Roberts. Was she married to the same A. Harry Roberts that knew Bannister? The SRC, former FBI guy? 

Delphine Roberts and another individual were the ones that discovered Banister (not Bannister) in his bed dead. Delphine was a total crackpot. She was ardent Segregationist, Anti-Commie and a member of the John Birch Society. Delphine was often protesting various causes in New Orleans at the City Council, in the streets picketing. 

Delphine was a very paranoid lady and doesn't surprise me she would say Banister may have been murdered. When someone believes the communists were poisoning the drinking water with Fluoridation (Bircher belief), I would call that paranoid. 

Banister had been under the care of a doctor for some time. He went downhill financially, owing $1,100 Sam Newman for back rent (almost a year). He got arrested for a fight on a bus with a couple of men fighting over a pistol a couple of months before his death. 

[Douglas Caddy]

Kent Courtney was a close friend of Guy and Delphine. He called her a day or so after Guy's death and she told him that she was burning his important files in the fireplace.

[Paul Cummings]

8 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

OK, I found a source on the Guy Banister expecting to be murdered story. 

Joan Mellen, Page 72, in "A Farewell to Justice." 

https://books.google.co.th/books?id=r5FBPpDzj0cC&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=Guy+banister+if+I+am+found+dead+I+was+murdered&source=bl&ots=3Lojeh8ngt&sig=ACfU3U24mHmhM8vWs20nYCNu8vHhqYLWpA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjIub_I2dL5AhUwUGwGHdSZAi0Q6AF6BAgQEAM#v=onepage&q=Guy banister if I am found dead I was murdered&f=false

"If I am dead in a week, no matter what the circumstances look like, it won't be from natural causes." -Guy Banister, 1964.  He was dead within a week. 

The source for this quote, according to a footnote, is Guy Johnson, in an interview with Bernard Fensterwald on May 21, 1969, and I guess in a document stored at the AARC. 

This is a confusing reference to a shot being fired at Guy Banister. Joan Mellen's writing style might be called "stream of consciousness." Banister's wife left N.O. in a frightened state. 

Delphine Roberts (Banister's secy), and some characters named Allen Campbell and Kent Courtney suspect Banister was murdered. 

So, to sum up:

1. People close to Banister suspect he was murdered.

2. Banister in 1964 apparently said if he was dead within a week, then it was murder. He was dead within a week. 

3. The autopsy, if accurate, found no signs of harm on Banister's body, such as gunshot or blow by instrument.

4. However, it does not appear the autopsy performed blood tests or had the stomach pumped. Banister died of a heart attack, according to the autopsy, but such attacks can be induced by poisons, especially among those prone to such attacks.  

5. At the time of his death, a man of Banister's age likely had another 14 years to live, based on actuarial tables. 

All of the above is hardly proof of a murder. But it is interesting. 

 

 

Given Banisters lifestyle and drinking living to 70 would've been a miracle.

[Pete Mellor]

4 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:

Given Banisters lifestyle and drinking living to 70 would've been a miracle.

Maybe Paul, but I used to drink neat Pernod in a pint glass & I've hit 70!

[Tom Gram]

4 hours ago, Steve Roe said:

Delphine Roberts and another individual were the ones that discovered Banister (not Bannister) in his bed dead. Delphine was a total crackpot. She was ardent Segregationist, Anti-Commie and a member of the John Birch Society. Delphine was often protesting various causes in New Orleans at the City Council, in the streets picketing. 

Delphine was a very paranoid lady and doesn't surprise me she would say Banister may have been murdered. When someone believes the communists were poisoning the drinking water with Fluoridation (Bircher belief), I would call that paranoid. 

Banister had been under the care of a doctor for some time. He went downhill financially, owing $1,100 Sam Newman for back rent (almost a year). He got arrested for a fight on a bus with a couple of men fighting over a pistol a couple of months before his death. 

Roberts was definitely an ultra right-wing nut. She ran for city council or something on the most ridiculous segregationist anti-commie platform imaginable. The newspaper ads for her campaign are pretty disturbing. 

That doesn’t automatically make her wrong though. Ben has provided several perfectly legitimate reasons to at least question the official story of Bannister’s death. Guy Johnson saying that Bannister claimed he might be imminently murdered one week before his death is especially interesting since it provides independent corroboration of Roberts.

Do you have a source on the bus arrest incident? If Bannister was in debt and getting out of control he may have been considered a liability, which could have easily turned into a motive to have him killed. Bannister’s involvement in Cuban operations in ‘61 and ‘62 could have been enough to whack him if someone thought he could be easily compromised, but if he had “unofficial” knowledge of Oswald, and was going off the rails drinking and getting into stupid fights it would’ve been a done deal. 

This is all speculative of course, and the evidence here is hardly proof of murder, but it is pretty interesting.  

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Paul Cummings said:

Given Banisters lifestyle and drinking living to 70 would've been a miracle.

What lifestyle? 

The Social Security actuarial tables gave Banister another 14 years or so, and that was based on average males at the time (1964). 

No one has even said Banister smoked.  No one has said he was a heavy drinker. Those are the stereotypes of P.I.'s at the time---but what about Banister in particular? 

Banister was vigorous enough to pistol-whip Martin on Nov. 22 1963 and put him in the hospital, and then (according to above post) was engaging in public fisticuffs a couple months before he was found dead. He may have had Roberts as a mistress.  For a guy with a bad heart...

What does "under the care of a doctor" mean?  For what? 

As for Delphine Roberts' political beliefs, they are irrelevant, and sadly reflect the tenor of the times. Having right- or left-wing political beliefs does not make someone paranoid. 

There is an old ploy used by die-hard LN'ers or CT'ers: Disparage the witnesses you do not like. 

That said, later in life Roberts seemed a bit troubled. Posner gives her rough treatment, and she gets gentle treatment by Summers. So it goes. 

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Ron Bulman]

55 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

No one has said he was a heavy drinker.

He was drunk when he pistol whipped Martin, per Martin.  He was drunk when he pulled his pistol in a bar in an argument and threatened the other person.  Which got him fired from his upper level job cleaning up the New Orleans Police Department's corruption.  Now he was drunk in this incident on the bus, if Steve can provide a source?  I think one might have to consider he could have had a drinking problem.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

He was drunk when he pistol whipped Martin, per Martin.  He was drunk when he pulled his pistol in a bar in an argument and threatened the other person.  Which got him fired from his upper level job cleaning up the New Orleans Police Department's corruption.  Now he was drunk in this incident on the bus, if Steve can provide a source?  I think one might have to consider he could have had a drinking problem.

Ron-

Was Banister drunk when he pistol-whipped Martin, or did they return from a bar and we do not know how much they had to drink? As they did not take breathalyzer tests, we really don't know. 

Sure, Banister may, or may not, have had a drinking problem. Maybe he drank for stretches, and then like a lot of people got off the bandwagon for other periods. 

People did commonly drink in those days. Sheesh, in old shows and movies, one business guy visiting another in his office in the middle of the workday, would be offered a drink. Winston Churchill reportedly consumed a bottle of gin daily.  

The two-martini lunch was considered a thing.

We just don't know if Banister drank heavily enough to affect his health. 

I gather Banister was not a smoker? 

 

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Ron-

Was Banister drunk when he pistol-whipped Martin, or did they return from a bar and we do not know how much they had to drink? As they did not take breathalyzer tests, we really don't know. 

Sure, Banister may, or may not, have had a drinking problem. Maybe he drank for stretches, and then like a lot of people got off the bandwagon for other periods. 

People did commonly drink in those days. Sheesh, in old shows and movies, one business guy visiting another in his office in the middle of the workday, would be offered a drink. Winston Churchill reportedly consumed a bottle of gin daily.  

The two-martini lunch was considered a thing.

We just don't know if Banister drank heavily enough to affect his health. 

I gather Banister was not a smoker? 

 

Fish elsewhere.

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

Fish elsewhere.

What does that mean? 

[Steve Roe]

18 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

Do you have a source on the bus arrest incident? If Bannister was in debt and getting out of control, he may have been considered a liability, which could have easily turned into a motive to have him killed. Bannister’s involvement in Cuban operations in ‘61 and ‘62 could have been enough to whack him if someone thought he could be easily compromised, but if he had “unofficial” knowledge of Oswald and was going off the rails drinking and getting into stupid fights it would’ve been a done deal. 

This is all speculative of course, and the evidence here is hardly proof of murder, but it is pretty interesting.  

Tom, the Banister (not Bannister) fight with 2-3 young men took place around March 31, 1964. Evidently Banister and a woman employee (could have been Delphine, can't confirm) were standing at a bus stop on Canal and City Park Avenue. One of the young men called Banister "Darling". I believe words were exchanged and the fight actually took place on the bus. The driver kicked them all off, and a bus window was broken in the melee. One of the young men contacted the cops and Banister was arrested. There was a pistol involved, and Banister refused to say if he was carrying a pistol. These were not Cuban exiles, just locals. The fight occurred at night (no time given) and Banister was arrested and paroled at 01:05. 

Banister could have been drunk, or all of them could have been drunk. No further details given. 

My sources for that were the Time Picayune and States-Item newspapers in New Orleans. I would like to post the articles, but I've been having problems getting that done any more on this forum. (It's a conspiracy LOL!)

There's a lot of myths surrounding Banister. But I can say he was a Segregationist, involved in the Free Electors movement in Louisiana. Also, he was on a welcoming committee or group for Governor George Wallace's visit to New Orleans. He could have very well had a drinking problem, there was another incident some time before where he was arrested in the French Quarter. 

Delphine Roberts sued the Banister & Associates business (some months after his death) for something like $6,000 (or close to that figure). 

I think it's safe to say Banister was having financial problems before his death. 

Hanging around Jack Martin (aka Edward Suggs) would drive anyone to drink. Suggs was a mental case, and I have some research possibly why he had that problem. Not going to share it here. 

[Paul Cummings]

16 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

What lifestyle? 

The Social Security actuarial tables gave Banister another 14 years or so, and that was based on average males at the time (1964). 

No one has even said Banister smoked.  No one has said he was a heavy drinker. Those are the stereotypes of P.I.'s at the time---but what about Banister in particular? 

Banister was vigorous enough to pistol-whip Martin on Nov. 22 1963 and put him in the hospital, and then (according to above post) was engaging in public fisticuffs a couple months before he was found dead. He may have had Roberts as a mistress.  For a guy with a bad heart...

What does "under the care of a doctor" mean?  For what? 

As for Delphine Roberts' political beliefs, they are irrelevant, and sadly reflect the tenor of the times. Having right- or left-wing political beliefs does not make someone paranoid. 

There is an old ploy used by die-hard LN'ers or CT'ers: Disparage the witnesses you do not like. 

That said, later in life Roberts seemed a bit troubled. Posner gives her rough treatment, and she gets gentle treatment by Summers. So it goes. 

 

Smoking and drinking. Not conducive for making the expected lifetime tables.

[Sandy Larsen]

On 8/19/2022 at 6:19 AM, Benjamin Cole said:

So, to sum up:

1. People close to Banister suspect he was murdered.

2. Banister in 1964 apparently said if he was dead within a week, then it was murder. He was dead within a week. 

3. The autopsy, if accurate, found no signs of harm on Banister's body, such as gunshot or blow by instrument.

4. However, it does not appear the autopsy performed blood tests or had the stomach pumped. Banister died of a heart attack, according to the autopsy, but such attacks can be induced by poisons, especially among those prone to such attacks.  

5. At the time of his death, a man of Banister's age likely had another 14 years to live, based on actuarial tables. 

 

I love brief summaries like that. There should be a repository for them.

Thank you Ben.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 8/19/2022 at 10:38 AM, Steve Roe said:

Delphine was a total crackpot. She was ardent Segregationist, Anti-Commie and a member of the John Birch Society. Delphine was often protesting various causes in New Orleans at the City Council, in the streets picketing. 

 

That, if relevant, could go in the summary.

 

[Joe Bauer]

One thing I have learned in all my years of studying the JFK event is it is more logical to first assume the more conspiratorial viewpoint regards anything remotely suspicious with most all the main nefarious characters involved.

Versus first assuming the typical mundane, coincidental and so-called normal viewpoint in such areas as their deaths.

Especially the New Orleans ones. 

What a crazy mix of the most eccentric and strange weirdos.

So many of them led secretive covert lives. From the most extreme view political activities to their personal and sexual orientation ones.

That whole scene of New Orleans back in those days reads like a surreal madcap theater of the absurd!

With dozens of different eccentric character acts all going on at the same time.

Portly New Orleans jive talking attorney Dean Andrews chasing down dead beat clients like Lee Harvey Oswald, taking on a half dozen "gay boys" jail house bail outs at a time, getting paid by the "Big Enchilata" ( Clay Bertrand ) for doing so and tipsily dancing by himself in Jazz hoppin' Bourbon Street clubs at night. 

Shady CIA connected aristocrat Clay Shaw hitting the seedy night club scene himself and signaling prospective paramours with pinky finger waves of invite.

No body hair David Ferry running a rat lab, leading recruits at a secret anti-Castro guerrilla training ground, hypnotizing young men for who knows what purpose, working part time for Carlos Marcello and maybe even paranoid commie chasing ring leader Guy Banister.

Guy Banister ... Oh Boy!  Smacking anyone around with his big 357 magnum revolver who triggers his hot headed temper. Don't EVER call him "DARLING." Sleeping with his equally worked up secretary Delphine Roberts.

Jack Martin. Poor Jack Martin. A burned out, coffee addicted fly on the wall part time Banister investigative agency case worker whose face beat the hell out of Banister's big hand gun. 

Marcello's people doing all the things mob people do. New Orleans was his personal fiefdom.

Orest Pena and his Habana Club. Oh yeah!  A rough, stinking, clap board drunken brawling pro-Castro/anti-Castro seamen intrigue version of the Casablanca film's "Ricks Place." 

Agent DeBruey's getting informant info from Pena for years. 

Judyth Vary Baker chasing around. Working for the sinister Alton Ochsner and kindly Dr. Mary Sherman one day, doing secretarial work at Reilly's coffee company and even flipping burgers the next? Getting it on with Lee and even visiting mad scientist David Ferry's apartment and meeting "Sparky" there?

Fights on downtown city streets in broad daylight between Lee and Carlos Bringuier.

Jada doing her thing there before Jack Ruby stole her for his Carousel Club.

Agency people running around. Hot headed Cuban ex-pats running around.

"Green Giant" Jim Garrison ( one of my heroes ) and his crew running around.

Shrimp gumbo, jazz, Mardi Gras madness ... all going on in a place generally considered a relatively corrupt, sinful, dirty, run down and large poverty class American city.

Both Ferry and Bannister are found naked in death?

Both connected to extremely dangerous and powerful people and activities.

Both with knowledge that would knock the socks off any truly honest JFK and Oswald investigation.

And in my opinion...the fact that old Guy Banister could take on two or three young punks and hold his own on that City bus just weeks before his naked body is discovered doesn't fit the bad heart scenario ... as well as Banister's libido keeping a much younger hot momma Delphine Roberts content.

 

 

               

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Joe Bauer