Ruth Paine on "The Assassination & Mrs. Paine" film: "Well done, but powerfully awful"

[Sandy Larsen]

26 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Then you're just cosplaying as a real researcher. People who take this field seriously don't bury their heads in sand and start from a position that integral figures in the case are automatically CIA plants or li*rs.

 

That's not my starting position. Somehow you missed my preparatory work in an earlier post, which is as follows:

 

Quote

The following is what a researcher figures out once he accepts that there was no Oswald there, and he quits believing the WC narrative:

The purpose of the Mexico City trip was to make it appear to low-level CIA and the FBI that Oswald and some companions had traveled by car to Mexico City in order to conspire with the Cubans and Russians on assassinating Kennedy. Evidence was created to show that Oswald was pals with Sylvia Duran and other Cuban consulate  employees. That they had a twist party at the Duran's. That Oswald met with KGB assassinations chief Valeriy Kostikov, at the Russian Embassy. And Oswald was paid a $6500 down payment for the hit by a red-haired black guy.

The whole thing was created by high-level CIA plotters. It was a false flag operation meant to create a prelude to a Cuban invasion.

The reason for involving Oswald in the plot was so that the assassination in Dallas could be linked back to the Cubans and Russians. The CIA plotters needed the FBI to discover the FAKE false flag plot right away after the assassination.

(There's much more to this, but I need to keep this brief. But the false flag operation apparently worked, at least at first. James Hosty, in his book, reported that American warplanes were sent to Cuba not long after the assassination, but were called back before arriving.)

Now, we know for a fact that Oswald worked at the place where the shooting took place. Either 1) the plotters wanted him there, and therefore put him there; or 2) he just happened to get a job there not long before the assassination. What a coincidence!

Does anybody really believe that Oswald just happened to get that job?

 

[Allen Lowe]

Just to get away from the local sharks, I want to mention something, a lie that Ruth told in the documentary that is blatant and undeniable. She sells us how Oswald called her on Sunday night November 24. Guess what? He was dead by Sunday night November 24. This is a woman who is a borderline sociopath and not to be believed.

[Allen Lowe]

10 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

It's you who's got things backwards. The TSBD job came first. Oswald's desire to kill the President came second. It was entirely a murder of opportunity.

 

Typical silly CTer motto there. You should have it tattooed on your forehead.

Oh I get it he commits the crime of the Century accidentally, by convenience, by opportunity. I mean, here’s the president  I might as well do it now even though I haven’t fired a rifle in years, but just be sure I order one with a huge paper trail so everybody knows it was me.

One of the things that I’ve noticed happening on the Lone Nutter side is that your arguments have gotten weaker and weaker as time has passed. Everything is a coincidence, all the CIA connections, all of LHO’s intelligence associations. And of course it’s a coincidence that you’re here to keep an eye on us all.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Allen Lowe

[Denny Zartman]

In my view, if one believes (as I do) that Oswald was the designated patsy in an organized and sophisticated conspiracy, it seems to me only logical to examine the circumstances that put him on the motorcade route.

The conspirators needed to place him in that building. Either they waited until they got lucky and he just happened to get a job there, or they engineered it to happen. I don't think they waited for it to happen and I don't think he was selected to be the patsy after he began work at the TSBD, which just happened to be a month and a week before the assassination. It's well known that Oswald's history had so-called "fingerprints of intelligence" all over it.

So how did LHO get to the TSBD? Ruth Paine cold-called Roy Truly.

I know many people here are working overtime to pin all of this on Linnie Mae Randle, but the plain fact of the matter is that when you look at the evidence it is clear that the last name of the person who was the most instrumental in getting LHO a job at the TSBD was not Randle or Oswald; it was Paine.

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Mr. BELIN. Mr. Truly, when did you first hear of the name of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. TRULY. I heard the name on or about October 15th.
Mr. BELIN. Of what year?
Mr. TRULY. Of 1963.
Mr. BELIN. And from whom did you hear the name? Could you just relate to the Commission the circumstances, if you would, please?
Mr. TRULY. I received a phone call from a lady in Irving who said her name was Mrs. Paine.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
What did Mrs. Paine say, and what did you say?
Mr. TRULY. She said, "Mr. Truly,"---words to this effect---you understand---" Mr. Truly, you don't know who I am but I have a neighbor whose brother works for you. I don't know what his name is. But he tells his sister that you are very busy. And I am just wondering if you can use another man," or words to that effect.
And I told Mrs.---she said, "I have a fine young man living here with his wife and baby, and his wife is expecting a baby--another baby, in a few days, and he needs work desperately."
Now, this is not absolutely--this is as near as I can remember the conversation over the telephone.
And I told Mrs. Paine that--to send him down, and I would talk to him--that I didn't have anything in mind for him of a permanent nature, but if he was suited, we could possibly use him for a brief time.
Mr. BELIN. Was there anything else from that conversation that you remember at all, or not?
Mr. TRULY. No. I believe that was the first and the last time that I talked to Mrs. Paine.
In fact, I could not remember her name afterwards until I saw her name in print, and then it popped into my mind that this was the lady who called me.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Anything else on--what was this--October 15th--about Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir; I am sure it was on October 15th.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else you can remember about Lee Harvey Oswald on that day?
Mr. TRULY. She told me she would tell him to come down and see me.

-

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/truly1.htm

J. Walton Moore was a CIA officer in Dallas, who knew George de Mohrenschildt. Moore asked de Mohrenschildt to make friends with Oswald. de Mohrenschildt, an aristocratic globe trotting oil baron who reportedly had connections with German and French intelligence as well as American, convinced LHO to move to Dallas and introduced Oswald to Ruth Paine. Paine, as has been pointed out repeatedly, not only had a husband and brother in law that held high-level security clearances at their places of employment, Ruth had a sister that worked for the CIA. Paine gives Oswald's family a place to live, gives Oswald a place to store his (alleged) murder weapon, and gets him a job at the TSBD, placing Oswald on the motorcade route.

At what time is it reasonable to think that all of this did not happen by chance?

[Matt Allison]

29 minutes ago, Denny Zartman said:

I know many people here are working overtime to pin all of this on Linnie Mae Randle, but the plain fact of the matter is that when you look at the evidence it is clear that the last name of the person who was the most instrumental in getting LHO a job at the TSBD was not Randle or Oswald; it was Paine.

But Ruth Paine doesn't even know about the TSBD unless Linnie Mae Randle tells her about it.

 

[Guest]

It was a team effort 😇  

Mr. BALL. And then you also mentioned the Texas Book Depository?

Mrs. RANDLE. Well, I didn’t know there was a job opening over there.

Mr. BALL. But did you mention it?

Mrs. RANDLE. But we said he might try over there. There might be work over there because it was the busy season but I didn’t have any previous knowledge that there was any job opening.

Mr. BALL. Did you later learn that Lee had applied for a job?

Mrs. RANDLE. She told me, Mrs. Paine told me, later that he had applied for the job, and had gotten the job and she thanked us for naming the places and things like that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, nobody really wanted that hot patatoe..., so it was "us" and "we"

I would probably have done the same at that age. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Matt Allison]

34 minutes ago, Denny Zartman said:

J. Walton Moore was a CIA officer in Dallas, who knew George de Mohrenschildt. Moore asked de Mohrenschildt to make friends with Oswald.

I see people doing this a fair amount; assuming that Ruth Paine was on the same level as De Mohrenschildt. Except there's zero evidence of that. There is tangible evidence that the Baron himself did intelligence work; while with Ruth Paine. she was a homemaker raising children. They're not the same.

[Guest]

removed / double post

Edited October 24, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Joe Bauer]

 

The discussion area of Lee Harvey Oswald and his actions, movements and motive theories can get so convoluted it is dizzying.

Yet, even I have my own "spin."

I watched an old video of Marina Oswald being interviewed by a small group of reporters just a month or two after 11,22,1963.

Dan Rather was in this group!

Marina seemed overwhelmed at times by their questions. Sometimes not fully understanding them because of her limited English. Other times you could see her hesitating before answering, because she sensed that her answer could be in some way detrimental to her self-interest.

One question was something like ...when did your husband start acting so crazy? Like shooting at Walker?

She hesitated and then said something like after she and Lee moved back here to the states. Not right away...but eventually. 

She was asked why she didn't report such a violent act by her husband to the police? She simply said..."because I'm wife."

I've always been interested in the irrationality of Lee Oswald's behavior the last year of his life. He did some things that were so desperately risky...even suicidal.

The alleged JFK and Tippit shootings were the crowning most extremely violent suicidal actions. So self-destructive.

And so harmful to his family. It seems Lee Oswald truly cared deeply about his daughter June. Yet, even this was not enough reason to stop himself from possibly destroying himself and her future life.

Oswald didn't have a drinking or drug problem. Everything he did he did it stone cold sober. Where is Sigmund Freud when you need him here?

Maybe everything Oswald did that was anti-social in his life was born out of a totally neglected childhood, no protective father and an overbearing _itch of a mother?

A angry rage often comes with that neglect.

Charles Manson an extreme example.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Sandy Larsen]

14 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

But Ruth Paine doesn't even know about the TSBD unless Linnie Mae Randle tells her about it.

 

How about this, Matt? I'll tell you possible flaws in your argument, and you tell me and Denny possible flaws in our argument.
 

Possible Flaws in Matt's Argument:

Matt is assuming that Truly, Ruth, and Linnie Mae told the truth. He is further assuming that their testimonies weren't altered. Any of them could have lied. Any of their testimonies could have been altered.
 

Possible Flaws in Sandy's and Denny's Argument:

<Waiting for Matt's response>

 

[Matt Allison]

Just now, Sandy Larsen said:

Possible Flaws in Sandy's and Denny's Argument:

<Waiting for Matt's response>

 

Without evidence, an assumption that they're lying because it doesn't fit your narrative.

[Matt Allison]

You're demanding I go along with the idea that Ruth Paine was a conspirator simply because for decades it's been a habit for people to assume that.

Sorry, but I'm not going to do that.

[Sandy Larsen]

30 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

I see people doing this a fair amount; assuming that Ruth Paine was on the same level as De Mohrenschildt. Except there's zero evidence of that.

 

Just because two CIA assets are asked to do a similar task doesn't mean they are on the same level. As for evidence, do you expect there to be physical evidence in the public domain that a person is CIA?

What we do have is circumstantial evidence.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

17 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

19 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Possible Flaws in Sandy's and Denny's Argument:

<Waiting for Matt's response>

 

17 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

Without evidence, an assumption that they're lying because it doesn't fit your narrative.

 

You're supposed to show flaws in my and Denny's argument. Did you read and understand our argument?

Try again.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

11 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

You're demanding I go along with the idea that Ruth Paine was a conspirator simply because for decades it's been a habit for people to assume that.

Sorry, but I'm not going to do that.

 

I demanded no such thing. I asked you to point out flaws in our argument.