The Killing Floor

[Benjamin Cole]

4 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

Freight elevator, so no way to tell exactly where the car is without physically maneuvering into the shaft to see its location.

Mr. BALL. Mr. Truly, when you came into the building with Officer Baker you tried to look up the elevator shaft, didn’t you?

Mr. TRULY. Yes ; I sure did.

Mr. BALL. And where did you see the elevators?

Mr. TRULY. On the fifth floor-both of them on the same floor. Mr. BALL. They were both up on the fifth floor?

Mr. TRULY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. You are sure of that?

Mr. TRULY. I am sure, because their bottoms were level.

Mr. BALL. When you went up to the floor, was there an elevator on any of the floors?

Mr. TRULY. When I reached the fifth floor, the east elevator was there, but west one was not.

---30---

You know on this one, I think the dreadnought researcher Pat Speer is right. 

Truly claims he saw both elevators on the fifth floor, by visual inspection, looking up the shaft. 

That indeed would seem to preclude LHO riding down the elevator and getting off on the second floor, in the amount of time it took Baker and Truly to ascend the stairs. 

That assumes Baker and Truly immediately set off up the stairs. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Larry Hancock]

And yes I'm as old as Ben describes....as a child I helped my mother catch the chickens - she would then cut the heads off of with a cleaver and then have to get the feathers off.    The feathers were the nasty and especially smelly business. 

Hard to imagine but food does not just appeared packaged....not that I miss the chicken thing at all and have no desire to return to those days.

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Larry Hancock said:

and if you like fried chicken you may like it enough to put some bread on it and eat it as a sandwich. 

I do that all the time. I love chicken sandwiches. In fact, when I operated my KFC restaurant here in the Hoosier State, I would regularly take one of our center-cut breast pieces (which we referred to as a "keel") and make a sandwich out of it for my lunch. But I'd make sure to debone the bird before putting any of it between the bread. Which is what any sensible person would do, of course. (No offense to the south—or to Mr. Bonnie Ray Williams—intended.)

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Matt Allison]

7 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Truly claims he saw both elevators on the fifth floor, by visual inspection, looking up the shaft. 

 

I need to read up more, because I don't think I'm informed enough on the specifics of the elevators to understand or make an opinion. It seems more complex than I realized.

[Larry Hancock]

Well sometimes you get in a hurry, grab whatever is in the refrigerator and slap something together to get back into the field, or wherever you were working.   Eating down south could be less than a gastronomic experience during certain seasons and you sort of get used to it. 

Clearly a much dated version of today's far superior and evolved "fast food".

[Matt Allison]

I'd just like to add that it's kinda wild to see one of the best JFKA researchers in history giving us the lowdown on southern chicken sandwiches in this thread lol Kudos, Larry

[Larry Hancock]

Well I figure my expertise extends back to what a person in Dallas might indeed be eating - or not eating including the sandwich and a Dr Pepper (the national Dr Pepper museum is in Texas and yes there is one and yes I went there, admittedly having taken the wrong road at the time but still...).  

Its a pleasure to bring that level of experience to the table...grin...(we didn't have emojis either).

 

[James DiEugenio]

1 hour ago, Michael Griffith said:

This is an excellent visual summary of the evidence that Oswald was not on the sixth floor during the shooting. I've added a link to it on my JFK site. The video also gives us more reasons to suspect that Detective Leavelle was guilty of foul play, which in turn raises the possibility that he played a deliberate role in Oswald's death.

Thanks so much Mike. The more it gets out there the better.  Its really good.

And to let you in on something that few people know, but I will be discussing in Dallas.

People like Gus Russo try to say that Oliver did not know anything back in 1991 and Zach Sklar, or the research team, must have done most of the writing of the script.. Oliver told me that he was the one who wrote in the scene about Adams and Styles back then.  He said that he did most of the WC/conspiracy stuff and Zach did the New Orleans stuff.  John Newman wrote the first draft summary for the Vietnam scenes.

Will let you know about royalties later 😃

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Larry Hancock said:

Well sometimes you get in a hurry, grab whatever is in the refrigerator and slap something together to get back into the field, or wherever you were working.   Eating down south could be less than a gastronomic experience during certain seasons and you sort of get used to it. 

Clearly a much dated version of today's far superior and evolved "fast food".

As a side note to all this "chicken" talk we've been having, I thought I'd post this newspaper ad that I found recently, which is something that really illustrates in no uncertain terms just how much times have changed since 1963 when it comes to the cost of fast food in North America.

Just take a gander at all the food you could get for only $4.95 at the local KFC outlet in Windsor, Ontario, Canada, in July of 1963! This Picnic Pack seems like a steal of a deal---even for JFK's era. This amount of food would cost over $50 today. Oh, how I wish it were 1963 again! If only to see these prices one more time! ....

More shockingly low food prices from the 1950s and 1960s can be found amongst the various KFC ads I've collected and put on this webpage. It's a time warp experience indeed.

[Joseph McBride]

I remember that on Nov. 22, some in the

gullible media reported that the assassin

was so callous he sat eating a chicken

dinner and drinking soda pop before

killing the president. It was part of

the "so-called evidence" used as

propaganda to sell Oswald-as-

killer to the public.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Joseph McBride

[David Von Pein]

28 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

I remember that on Nov. 22, some in the gullible media reported that the assassin was so callous he sat eating a chicken dinner and drinking soda pop before killing the president. It was part of the "so-called evidence" used as propaganda to sell Oswald-as-killer to the public.

Nonsense. The widespread inaccurate reporting on radio and television on November 22nd about Oswald eating a chicken dinner while waiting for JFK to enter the kill zone was just another of the innocent and understandable mistakes made by the media in the immediate aftermath of the assassination. It wasn't designed to be "propaganda" at all.

At the time those erroneous "chicken dinner" reports were being broadcast, the media really did think the President's killer was up there on the 6th floor munching on chicken while he waited for Kennedy to arrive in Dealey Plaza. And given the close proximity of the chicken scraps and the soft drink bottle to the assassin's Sniper's Nest in the Depository, a reasonable and understandable conclusion to reach was that JFK's murderer had, indeed, been the one who was dining on chicken just before pulling the trigger.

No intentional "propaganda" there at all. Merely a perfectly logical mistake made by media personnel who were merely trying their best to quickly report to the world all the details they could concerning one of the worst tragedies of the 20th century. Nothing more than that.

Edited October 19, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

4 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Freight elevator, so no way to tell exactly where the car is without physically maneuvering into the shaft to see its location.

Mr. BELIN. Now, Mr. Truly, did you notice when you got to the third floor--first of all. On the second floor, was there any elevator there? 
Mr. TRULY. No, sir. 
Mr. BELIN. What about the third floor? 
Mr. TRULY. No, sir. 
Mr. BELIN. Fourth floor? 
Mr. TRULY. No, I am sure not. 
Mr. BELIN. What about the fifth floor? 
Mr. TRULY. When we reached the fifth floor, the east elevator was on that floor. 
Mr. BELIN. What about the west elevator? Was that on the fifth floor? 
Mr. TRULY. No, sir. I am sure it wasn't, or I could not have seen the east elevator. 
Mr. BELIN. All right. 
Mr. TRULY. I am almost positive that it wasn't there. 
Mr. DULLES. You said you released the elevator and let it go down? 
Mr. TRULY. No; the east elevator was the one on the fifth floor. 

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Mr. BELIN. Now, Mr. Truly, did you notice when you got to the third floor--first of all. On the second floor, was there any elevator there? 
Mr. TRULY. No, sir. 
Mr. BELIN. What about the third floor? 
Mr. TRULY. No, sir. 
Mr. BELIN. Fourth floor? 
Mr. TRULY. No, I am sure not. 
Mr. BELIN. What about the fifth floor? 
Mr. TRULY. When we reached the fifth floor, the east elevator was on that floor. 
Mr. BELIN. What about the west elevator? Was that on the fifth floor? 
Mr. TRULY. No, sir. I am sure it wasn't, or I could not have seen the east elevator. 
Mr. BELIN. All right. 
Mr. TRULY. I am almost positive that it wasn't there. 
Mr. DULLES. You said you released the elevator and let it go down? 
Mr. TRULY. No; the east elevator was the one on the fifth floor. 

Thus, one possibility is that the JFKA perps (at least one or some) took the TSBD elevator down, as Truly and Baker came up. Then, the perp(s) simply left the TSBD and walked away, as did many other people that day (including LHO). 

I think PS has a strong story on this one. 

This does not mean LHO was uninvolved in the JFKA, perhaps unwittingly.

In fact CIA-asset LHO 's departure from the TSBD post-JFKA, his going home to get his revolver, and his murder all suggest LHO knew something vital...vital enough to get him murdered (by an asset on loan to the CIA, so to speak).  

 

 

 

 

[Sean Coleman]

10 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

As a side note to all this "chicken" talk we've been having, I thought I'd post this newspaper ad that I found recently, which is something that really illustrates in no uncertain terms just how much times have changed since 1963 when it comes to the cost of fast food in North America.

Just take a gander at all the food you could get for only $4.95 at the local KFC outlet in Windsor, Ontario, Canada, in July of 1963! This Picnic Pack seems like a steal of a deal---even for JFK's era. This amount of food would cost over $50 today. Oh, how I wish it were 1963 again! If only to see these prices one more time! ....

More shockingly low food prices from the 1950s and 1960s can be found amongst the various KFC ads I've collected and put on this webpage. It's a time warp experience indeed.

Another ad, incorporating a KFC/ Trump crossover commemorative plate -for serious collectors only. Both topical and reasonably priced for people who live in the middle bit of the US probably. Would nestle attractively between an Elvis plate and a Dukes of Hazard plate whilst highlighting a confederate flag backdrop. In a trailer.

[Bob Ness]

17 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Except for the fact that sausage and bacon don't have any bones in them. So your examples are not really fair comparisons to a bone-in chicken "sandwich".

Putting a piece of bone-in chicken between two pieces of bread is ludicrous (in the south or anywhere else). What's the point of even doing that when nobody who isn't insane is going to pick it up and eat it as a "sandwich" anyway? It's just silly.

But, as they say, variety is the spice of life (and sandwiches).

Red letter day. Completely agree with you David hahaha! This isn't even debatable!

Edited October 19, 2022 by Bob Ness