Elevators and Electricity

[Paul Cummings]

Something around the waist that would allow them to drop down at fast rate using the cables inside the elevator shaft. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Paul Cummings

[Nick Bartetzko]

On 10/19/2022 at 10:53 PM, Ron Bulman said:

I've read a good bit about these subjects over the years and think they might be interrelated.  Much of the info was scattered.  After the recent post about Vicki Adams saying the elevator wouldn't work when she came back in after five minutes I went looking.  My 70 or so books on the top two shelves?  Not much I could find.  Jim Marrs, Crossfire, Geneva Hines covering the phones, them and electricity out at the time or the assassination.

Then I thought of Bart Kamp's essay on the second floor encounter which I'd read parts of.  Might it have mentioned the elevators and electricity?  Yes, it does, the elevators in particular.

Pg. 39.  Statement'S that employee'S said the power was off to all the elevators.

Pg. 47.  Truly pushed the (west/"automatic") freight elevator button.  Nothing happened.  Then he yelled into the shaft to send the elevator down.  Nothing.  Then he yelled again.  He, and Baker at some point stuck their heads in the shaft and looked up to see them stuck several floors up.  This all took time. 

Pg. 49.  Big One.  Sandra Styles in email to Sean Murphy says Vicki Adams said she saw the (freight) elevator cables moving, as she descended the stairs.

Pgs. 50-52.  Another Big One.  "Myster of the West Elevator".  Letter from Norman Redlich of the Warren Commission to his superiors, never acted on.

Anatomy of the second floor lunch room encounter Aug 27 2017-by_Bart Kamp.pdf (prayer-man.com)

Thoughts on electricity and more later. 

For clarification, there is a cable attached to the top of the elevator and another to the bottom? As to the cables, they were moving which might mean from side to side rather than down with the elevator? 

[Nick Bartetzko]

On 10/22/2022 at 8:43 AM, Paul Cummings said:

Something around the waist that would allow them to drop down at fast rate using the cables inside the elevator shaft. 

Thanks, that’s what I thought. It remains an intriguing possibility…

[Ron Bulman]

I don't think anyone slid down a cable.  The angle in this picture is rather silly, it would have been straight down.  That aside.  Vicki Adams statement to Sandra Styles about the elevator moving while they descended the stairs is important.  Was a sixth floor "shooter", and accomplice on the way down slightly before or after Vicky and Sandra?

[Paul Cummings]

7 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I don't think anyone slid down a cable.  The angle in this picture is rather silly, it would have been straight down.  That aside.  Vicki Adams statement to Sandra Styles about the elevator moving while they descended the stairs is important.  Was a sixth floor "shooter", and accomplice on the way down slightly before or after Vicky and Sandra?

Ron I was giving an example of what they might have used to slide down much like climbers dropping down and not the actual picture. Since the stairs weren't used how in the heck do they get the hell out of there? I think it's more silly believing they took the elevator down.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Paul Cummings

[Denny Zartman]

1 hour ago, Paul Cummings said:

Ron I was giving an example of what they might have used to slide down much like climbers dropping down and not the actual picture. Since the stairs weren't used how in the heck do they get the hell out of there? I think it's more silly believing they took the elevator down.

From what I understand reading a statement by Charles Givens, people traveling in the elevator were visible to the people on the building floors and vice versa. I do not know if this was true of both elevators, but if so it would seem that it would be impossible for anyone to covertly rappel down the shaft.

 

[Paul Cummings]

25 minutes ago, Denny Zartman said:

From what I understand reading a statement by Charles Givens, people traveling in the elevator were visible to the people on the building floors and vice versa. I do not know if this was true of both elevators, but if so it would seem that it would be impossible for anyone to covertly rappel down the shaft.

 

So how did they get out? You're possibly looking at three people (team) getting the hell out of the TSBD. Also contend moment after shots people weren't necessarily looking to inside the TSBD. More than likely they left in the back of building got in a car and headed north on Houston. They were professionals not fly by the seat of the pants amateurs.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Paul Cummings

[Denny Zartman]

49 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:

So how did they get out? You're possibly looking at three people (team) getting the hell out of the TSBD. Also contend moment after shots people weren't necessarily looking to inside the TSBD. More than likely they left in the back of building got in a car and headed north on Houston. They were professionals not fly by the seat of the pants amateurs.

I don't know. Did the elevators open up directly to the outside? To my knowledge they didn't, but I could be wrong on that. If the elevators didn't open up directly to the outside, then it appears there was still some building escaping to be done regardless of whether or not they rappelled down the elevator shaft. Perhaps they hid somewhere and waited it out for an hour or two. Once it was quickly settled on Oswald as the sole suspect, I doubt there was much interest in keeping the building locked down or searching for any more suspects.

All I'm saying is that if the elevators were, as Givens seemed to indicate, the type of design where the passengers of a moving elevator car were visible to occupants standing outside the elevator and vice versa, it seems to stand to reason that the empty elevator shaft would also be visible. A descent down the shaft is still possible, it just seems to me that it wouldn't be very covert.

[Matt Allison]

1 hour ago, Paul Cummings said:

You're possibly looking at three people (team)

FWIW, using that many people would be insane. I think that idea of 3 man teams was put forth in the JFK movie but logistically it would be absurd and unnecessary.

[Paul Cummings]

7 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

FWIW, using that many people would be insane. I think that idea of 3 man teams was put forth in the JFK movie but logistically it would be absurd and unnecessary.

Thanks man. I've come to my own conclusions and not what a popular movie pontificated.

[Matt Allison]

21 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:

Thanks man. I've come to my own conclusions and not what a popular movie pontificated.

Cool. Logistically, 3 man teams would be absurd and unnecessary.

[Paul Cummings]

18 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

Cool. Logistically, 3 man teams would be absurd and unnecessary.

Yeah I think I got that the first time.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Paul Cummings

[Ron Bulman]

10 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

I don't know. Did the elevators open up directly to the outside? To my knowledge they didn't, but I could be wrong on that. If the elevators didn't open up directly to the outside, then it appears there was still some building escaping to be done regardless of whether or not they rappelled down the elevator shaft. Perhaps they hid somewhere and waited it out for an hour or two. Once it was quickly settled on Oswald as the sole suspect, I doubt there was much interest in keeping the building locked down or searching for any more suspects.

All I'm saying is that if the elevators were, as Givens seemed to indicate, the type of design where the passengers of a moving elevator car were visible to occupants standing outside the elevator and vice versa, it seems to stand to reason that the empty elevator shaft would also be visible. A descent down the shaft is still possible, it just seems to me that it wouldn't be very covert.

On the back (north) wall of the TSBD in the n/w corner were the stairs.  Next to them on the 1st floor was an overhead dock door.  Next to it is the west freight elevator facing the stairs. Adjacent to it is the east (facing) freight elevator which is also next to an overhead dock door.  Next to it a walk through door to the back dock then a bathroom.  With the electrical breaker panels on the outside of it (?).

Google is getting frustrating looking for images I've posted before.  I searched in vain for a Warren Commission Document/exhibit of an FBI diagram of the first floor.  Second and sixth floors pop right up.  You can see a smaller blurred copy here at 4:10.

 

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

On the back (north) wall of the TSBD in the n/w corner were the stairs.  Next to them on the 1st floor was an overhead dock door.  Next to it is the west freight elevator facing the stairs. Adjacent to it is the east (facing) freight elevator which is also next to an overhead dock door.  Next to it a walk through door to the back dock then a bathroom.  With the electrical breaker panels on the outside of it (?).

Google is getting frustrating looking for images I've posted before.  I searched in vain for a Warren Commission Document/exhibit of an FBI diagram of the first floor.  Second and sixth floors pop right up.  You can see a smaller blurred copy here at 4:10.

 

I haven't used the term "in vain" in a long while.  It made me think . . .

 

[Ron Bulman]

If you go from the electricity and phones being off/dead per Geneva Hines at the time of the assassination to Vicki Adams saying the elevator wouldn't work when she came back in five minutes after, that's a long and important while.  Did it take Truly and Baker 4-5 minutes to get to and use the elevator on the 5th floor?

Which leads to a couple of other questions.

I believe I remember Geneva Hines saying the lights were out at the time of the assassination (?).  Afterward, I don't remember anyone else noticing this.  Unusual.  I wonder if power was cut to the whole building or specific breakers?  Or flipped off/on as needed for elevator operation.