Interesting account of JFK affair, Gore Vidal

[Cory Santos]

Jim I’m curious.   Do you feel JFK and RFK ever had affairs while in office?   If so with whom?  What about Mary Pinchot Meyer?   If you feel they had affair, was her death at all related to JFK?   Thanks.   

[Paul Brancato]

7 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

Jim I’m curious.   Do you feel JFK and RFK ever had affairs while in office?   If so with whom?  What about Mary Pinchot Meyer?   If you feel they had affair, was her death at all related to JFK?   Thanks.   

Off subject but can’t resist - Bill Maher pointed out last week that oddly no one knows anything about Trump’s sex life. Surely he has one. 

[James DiEugenio]

Bobby did not.  The FBI followed him after hours on Hoover's instructions. 

They said it was a boring assignment.

As per JFK, I am really surprised that not more people have read my long essay on this, The Posthumous Assassination of John F. Kennedy.  Here it is.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-posthumous-assassination-of-john-f-kennedy

This was one of the most talked about essays I ever wrote.  People in the MSM read it.

 

[Cory Santos]

30 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Bobby did not.  The FBI followed him after hours on Hoover's instructions. 

They said it was a boring assignment.

As per JFK, I am really surprised that not more people have read my long essay on this, The Posthumous Assassination of John F. Kennedy.  Here it is.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-posthumous-assassination-of-john-f-kennedy

This was one of the most talked about essays I ever wrote.  People in the MSM read it.

 

I shall give it a look over later tonight.  Thanks.  

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

Off subject but can’t resist - Bill Maher pointed out last week that oddly no one knows anything about Trump’s sex life. Surely he has one. 

According to Stormy Daniels, Trump's johnson is shaped like a toad stool.

As far as I know, it's the only known, public description of a U.S. president's johnson, other than Johnson referring to his johnson as, "Jumbo."

[Matthew Koch]

14 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

According to Stormy Daniels, Trump's johnson is shaped like a toad stool.

As far as I know, it's the only known, public description of a U.S. president's johnson, other than Johnson referring to his johnson as, "Jumbo."

Weren't you the one, who was complaining about unscholarly research? 🤔

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Bobby did not.  The FBI followed him after hours on Hoover's instructions. 

They said it was a boring assignment.

As per JFK, I am really surprised that not more people have read my long essay on this, The Posthumous Assassination of John F. Kennedy.  Here it is.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-posthumous-assassination-of-john-f-kennedy

This was one of the most talked about essays I ever wrote.  People in the MSM read it.

 

When I read your post I thought, I've read this.  Next thought was did Jim link this here previously in say the last 2-3-4 years?  Next thought was, in The Assassinations?  Bingo.  Fifty pages worth.  Same title though they don't start out exactly the same.  I could probably stand to (re) read them both.

[Joe Bauer]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

According to Stormy Daniels, Trump's johnson is shaped like a toad stool.

As far as I know, it's the only known, public description of a U.S. president's johnson, other than Johnson referring to his johnson as, "Jumbo."

Paula Jones described Bill Clinton's phallus as like a "curved putter."

I assume she meant putter as in golf putter.

 

[W. Niederhut]

48 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Paula Jones described Bill Clinton's phallus as like a "curved putter."

I assume she meant putter as in golf putter.

 

There are a lot of salacious stories in the M$M about the sex lives of Democrats Bill Clinton and the Kennedy brothers.

But how many salacious stories have people read about Republicans?

In a spirit of bipartisanship, herewith...  🤥

The 15 Most Sordid Presidential Sex Scandals In History | Thought Catalog

Gipper the Ripper? (slate.com)

: The Strange Death of the Woman Who Filed a Rape Lawsuit Against Bush | OpEd News

 

[Joe Bauer]

Gary Hart/Donna Rice. John Edwards/Rielly Hunter. Dennis Hastert/His Wrestling Team Boys. Newt Gingrich/Callista Bisek. Eliot Spitzer/ Entire Escort Service. David Petraeus/Paula Broadmore. Anthony Weiner/Anthony's Weiner. And on and on and on.

 

[W. Niederhut]

9 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Gary Hart/Donna Rice. John Edwards/Rielly Hunter. Dennis Hastert/His Wrestling Team Boys. Newt Gingrich/Callista Bisek. Eliot Spitzer/ Entire Escort Service. David Petraeus/Paula Broadmore. Anthony Weiner/Anthony's Weiner. And on and on and on.

 

But Dubya Bush's paramour was, apparently, the only one who ended up "committing suicide" with a shotgun, like George De Mohrenschildt.  It sounds like a signature CIA style hit to me.

Some skilled people were also involved in tampering with Dubya's National Guard records at the Air Force Finance Center in Denver back in the day, then forging the letter that was used to set up the deflective Rather-gate pseudo-scandal.

I have also wondered whether guys associated with the Company helped GHWB set up Gary Hart's "Monkey Business" psy op in 1988.  "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" didn't want to run against Gary Hart in 1988.

Edited November 17, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Joe Bauer]

Whether or not this thread is appropriately relevant in the forum's JFK research, education, debate and truth mission integrity context, it does reveal an aspect to the entire JFK historical story and especially his presidency that imo is more interesting and important than simple salacious JFK immorality gossip nonsense.

As well as the theory that the national seeding of it into our societal zeitgeist consciousness ( for almost 60 years now ) is and has been a coordinated deliberate effort by sinister powers to damage JFK's personal image and along with this a deflection and dissipation of interest away from his assassination and the caring for the Warren Commission disbelieving truth regards who did it and why.

I believe that JFK ( along with his wife Jackie ) had ascended a level of American ( and even international ) societal consciousness appeal during his presidency to such a physical attraction based degree it acquired an unprecedented iconic celebrity status.

Millions of people liked JFK for his seemingly more liberal progressive ideological leanings. Others for his world view of more 3rd world nation democratic principle sovereignty respecting and international cold war cooling peace and cooperation promoting. Millions of others were inspired by his encouragement of our nation's young people to look at the world around them in a healthy minded exciting adventure challenge way.

Let us go into space! Let us get in better physical shape! Let us ask not what our country can do for us, but what "we" can do for our country, etc. etc, !

However, there was something else going on above and beyond those well known JFK inspiration traits that was creating an ever increasing JFK societal popularity appeal. Something much more visceral.

I believe that a huge and growing number of Americans ( and people all over the world ) were actually falling in physical love with JFK and Jackie. Many even to sexual fantasy degrees.

This physical love appeal transcended traditional political figure reality concepts.

Photos of JFK and Jackie were being hung on the walls of perhaps millions of homes both here and abroad no matter how poor and humble. 

The poorest of African nations included!

There has always been a societal attraction to glamourous celebrities. Their faces are pictured on national and international magazine and book covers, newspaper front pages, office and home walls, advertisements you name it.

By JFK's third year in office, he and his wife's images were everywhere in that milieu.

Here, Rome, Paris, London, Berlin, Athens, Madrid, Stockholm, Rio, Bombay, Tokyo, Hong Kong, ... Minsk?

They were way more attractive and popular than any other American or international movie star or other political couples at that time.

Liz and Dick, Frank and Ava, Bogart and Bacall, Monroe and whoever, Ingrid and Rossellini, Liz and Phillip ... sorry folks!

Jack and Jackie were the "real stars" of the celebrity world ... by far!

The biggest then and ever since.

Look again at that JFK Santa Monica, California beach scene photo where the almost naked JFK is literally being physically attacked and groped by a mob of squealing wild eyed crazed with carnal lust women who had lost complete control of their senses!

JFK had by this time entranced the majority of American women young and old into a blinding physical attraction lust. And Jackie was doing the same with American men.

JFK was going to win the 1964 presidential election almost by sheer physical attraction appeal to women voters alone imo! 

At least as much or even more so than his political ideology stances.

Women by the millions were going to vote to keep JFK in office just to keep his tanned, handsome and warmly attractive smile face in their everyday world.

JFK was always smiling and it was the most physically attractive and healthy smile. Wide and warm with perfect teeth. Strong jaw. Smaller well shaped nose. Full head of healthy hair.

When the beautiful smile and physical attraction adored JFK was removed and replaced with the beady eyed, hang dog, big nosed, elephant eared and balding LBJ...there was a deep emotional sexual fantasy loss let down in this country and around the world imo.

Instantly gone was the beautiful people glamour and class.

JFK and Jackie had transcended into an adoration status beyond politics.

Their unprecedented physical beauty along with their other classy traits such as intelligence, education, upbringing, fashion sense and throw in JFK's more fair minded economic and humanistic rights caring world view made them world wide adored and revered icons.

JFK's adversaries were aware of this unprecedented and ever growing JFK appeal and popularity and probably came to a self-interest protecting conclusion that JFK could never be defeated in a national election and that this national as well as worldwide adoration would even carry into RFK being voted in after JFK's finished terms.

I believe the unprecedented JFK and Jackie physical beauty appeal to almost cult status phenomena is a story unto itself in the overall JFK and Jackie Kennedy historical legacy. 

One that to some real degree led JFK adversarial others to fear it's influence power being as much a threat to their own self-interests as any other JFK actions and policies.

Pretty boy JFK had to go. 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Whether or not this thread is appropriately relevant in the forum's JFK research, education, debate and truth mission integrity context, it does reveal an aspect to the entire JFK historical story and especially his presidency that imo is more interesting and even important than simple salacious JFK immorality gossip nonsense.

And the theory that the national seeding of it into our societal zeitgeist consciousness ( for almost 60 years now ) is and has been a coordinated deliberate effort by sinister powers to damage JFK's personal image and along with this a deflection and dissipation of interest away from his assassination and the caring for the Warren Commission disbelieving truth regards who did it and why.

I believe that JFK ( along with his wife Jackie ) had ascended a level of American ( and even international ) societal consciousness appeal during his presidency that had reached emotion and physical attraction based adoration status to an unprecedented degree. Celebrity cult status?

Millions of people liked JFK for his seemingly more liberal progressive ideological leanings. Others for his world view of more 3rd world nation democratic principle sovereignty respecting and international cold war cooling peace and cooperation promoting. Millions of others were inspired by his encouragement of our nation's young people to look at the world around them in a healthy minded exciting adventure challenge way.

Let us go into space! Let us get in better physical shape! Let us ask not what our country can do for us, but what "we" can do for our country, etc. etc, !

However, there was something else going on above and beyond those well known JFK inspiration traits that was creating an ever increasing JFK societal popularity appeal. Something much more visceral.

I believe that a huge and growing number of Americans ( and people all over the world ) were actually falling in physical love with JFK and Jackie.

This physical appeal had transcended traditional political figure reality concepts.

Glamour photos of JFK and Jackie were being hung on the walls of tens of millions of homes both here and abroad no matter how poor and humble. Competing with those of Christ, Buddha, Gandhi and other deities! 

The poorest of African nations included!

There has always been a societal attraction to glamourous celebrities. Their faces are pictured on national and international magazine and book covers, newspaper front pages, office and home walls, advertisements you name it.

By JFK's third year in office, he and his wife's images were everywhere.

Here, Rome, Paris, London, Berlin, Athens, Madrid, Stockholm, Rio, Tokyo, Hong Kong, ... Minsk?

And they were more attractive and popular than any other American or international movie star or other celebrity couple at that time.

Liz and Dick, Frank and Eva, Bogart and Lauren, Monroe and whoever, Ingrid and Rossellini, Liz and Phillip ... sorry folks!

Jack and Jackie were the real stars of the celebrity world ... by far!

The biggest then and ever since.

Look again at that JFK Santa Monica, California beach scene photo where the almost naked JFK is literally being physically attacked and groped by a mob of squealing wild eyed crazed with carnal lust women who have lost complete control of their senses.

JFK had by this time entranced the majority of American women young and old into a blind physical attraction lust. And Jackie was doing the same with American men.

JFK was going to win the 1964 presidential election almost by sheer physical attraction appeal alone! 

At least as much or even more so than his political ideological stances.

Women by the millions were going to vote to keep JFK in office just to keep his tanned and attractive face in their every day world.

JFK was always smiling and it was the most physically attractive and healthy smile. Wide and warm with perfect teeth. Strong Jaw. Smaller well shaped nose. Full head of healthy hair.

When the beautiful smile and physical attraction adored JFK was removed and replaced with the beady eyed, hang dog, elephant eared LBJ...there was a deep emotional loss let down in this country and around the world imo.

Instantly gone was the beautiful people glamour and class.

JFK and Jackie had transcended into an adoration status beyond politics.

Their unprecedented physical beauty along with their other classy traits such as intelligence, education, upbringing, fashion sense and throw in JFK's more fair minded economic and humanistic rights caring world view made them world wide adoring and revering icons.

JFK's adversaries were aware of this unprecedented and ever growing JFK appeal and popularity and probably came to a self-interest protecting conclusion that JFK could never be defeated in a national election and that this national as well as worldwide adoration would carry into RFK being voted in after JFK's finished terms.

I believe the unprecedented JFK and Jackie physical appeal to almost cult status phenomena is a story unto itself in the overall JFK and Jackie Kennedy historical legacy. 

One that to some real degree led JFK adversarial others to fear it's influence power being as much a threat to their own self-interest as any other JFK actions and policies.

Pretty boy JFK had to go. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Joe.

 

A number of things were at play. When you say people were falling in love with Jack & Jackie, I think its explained a slightly different way which amounts to what you are saying. 
 

1) People need role models, archetypes, figures to look up to. Both Jack and Jackie filled the role for men and women. He was a cool guy, dressed well, was a war hero, and had the American dream, something to aspire to. Jackie spoke very well, dressed very well, conducted herself well, exuded a European Sophistication, perhaps mirrored your Grace Kelly’s or Audrey Hepburn types. Men and women are always looking at the apex of the tribe to see how they can inprove themselves.
2) Human history and the animal kingdom is filled with dominance hierarchies, the public felt Jack & Jackie were noble or deserved choices. 
3) His compassionate leanings were so appealing to many Americans and the international community alike. A lot of people wanted more fairness. 
4) People who appear sincere and have conviction are incredibly attractive. 
5) One of the most powerful emotions is that of desiring safety, more so in women. At a time of great threat from overseas and McCarthy paranoia, JFK represented rationality, reason, safety and security. He wasn’t a bitter old man with a finger on the armageddon button, he was a guy who had young kids in the whitehouse, kids he wanted to have a world “we all cherish our children's future”. People felt better with him in office (not the racist maniacs, just people who wanted a better life and world). 
6) His marketing was better than any politician that had gone before, the first TV campaign. People felt connected to them, like they knew them and they likes what they saw. 
 

I am sure there are more reasons. 

[Joe Bauer]

On 11/17/2022 at 9:57 AM, Chris Barnard said:

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Joe.

 

A number of things were at play. When you say people were falling in love with Jack & Jackie, I think its explained a slightly different way which amounts to what you are saying. 
 

1) People need role models, archetypes, figures to look up to. Both Jack and Jackie filled the role for men and women. He was a cool guy, dressed well, was a war hero, and had the American dream, something to aspire to. Jackie spoke very well, dressed very well, conducted herself well, exuded a European Sophistication, perhaps mirrored your Grace Kelly’s or Audrey Hepburn types. Men and women are always looking at the apex of the tribe to see how they can inprove themselves.
2) Human history and the animal kingdom is filled with dominance hierarchies, the public felt Jack & Jackie were noble or deserved choices. 
3) His compassionate leanings were so appealing to many Americans and the international community alike. A lot of people wanted more fairness. 
4) People who appear sincere and have conviction are incredibly attractive. 
5) One of the most powerful emotions is that of desiring safety, more so in women. At a time of great threat from overseas and McCarthy paranoia, JFK represented rationality, reason, safety and security. He wasn’t a bitter old man with a finger on the armageddon button, he was a guy who had young kids in the whitehouse, kids he wanted to have a world “we all cherish our children's future”. People felt better with him in office (not the racist maniacs, just people who wanted a better life and world). 
6) His marketing was better than any politician that had gone before, the first TV campaign. People felt connected to them, like they knew them and they likes what they saw. 
 

I am sure there are more reasons. 

Your post above is more insightfully expressed and broader scoped than mine.

I envy your perceptive intelligence and writing skills in expanding my post thoughts to a greater deeper understanding and thought provoking degree.

The other aspects to JFK and Jackie in their greatest level adoration appeal you mention are so true and obvious. How did I miss them? 

JFK gave many middle class and poorer Americans, especially Americans of color, real feelings of believing hope that under his leadership their American dream and equal rights citizens aspirations could be a reality, or in the least improved upon.

If a book were written on the subject of JFK and Jackie's unprecedented, almost magical  national and even worldwide admired icon status appeal (including sex symbol ) your post above would be a great introduction imo.

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

The other aspects to JFK and Jackie in their greatest level adoration appeal you mention are so true and obvious. How did I miss them? 

I think its only having a lot of time to think. I have thought long and hard about why there is this magnetism in JFK that has made me read so much about a buy that died 18 years before I was born. By far the most power answer I have relates to myself, I think I see myself in him or vice versa. Of course there are many aspects to his personality and his developmental/environmental influences that made him who he is. I gravitate toward idealists, thinkers, intelligence, fairness, logic, pragmatism, stoicism and passionate people. Like anyone out there, we need role models, heroes, people to strive to be like, that make us raise our own game. I am very grateful that I discovered this guy and the positive influence that he has had on my life. 
 

29 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

JFK gave many middle class and poorer Americans, especially Americans of color, real feelings of believing hope that under his leadership their American dream aspirations could be a reality, or in the least improved upon.

He did, he was a beacon of hope, inspirational. He made people feel of value, in a world where many people felt they were nothing. The speeches communicated with all. 
 

Another point; I think he was a dreamer, not in the way that people negatively characterise a person with dreams but, in a positive way that said to everyone with a dream that they should reach for it. He had dreams of lifting a whole world. There aren’t many in history who even attempted it. 
 

“Give me a place to stand and a lever long enough, and I shall move the world.” 
Archimedes

(Referenced in RFK’s Ripples of Hope)

 

37 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

If a book were written on the subject of JFK and Jackie's unprecedented, almost magical  national and even worldwide admired icon status appeal (including sex symbol ) your post above would be a great introduction imo.

That’s a very kind compliment. Thank you.

Have you ever read PT109? And sat and thought about what he did? The towing the injured crewman with a belt between his teeth for possibly 3 miles? The swimming/floating all night in the tide, trying to signal an allied ship to say they needed rescuing, could possibly have been eaten by sharks or captured by the Japanese. He is the only president with a purple heart. 
 

TBH I have often thought about writing a profile of who he was and what made him tick. 
 

Perhaps we should talk about Bobby too, his passion, conviction, courage, loyalty, forcing his way through his own struggles to run for Potus. My brother (being a younger brother, identifies with Bobby much more). RFK was a very interesting character. The nation really took him in to their hearts. 
 

I feel like I could sit for hours and talk about these guys with a few drinks. We’re lucky to have had them.