They’re Gonna Do WHAT to Dealey Plaza?!?

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

My guess is 99% of the people who visit Dealey Plaza do so to see a historical site, preserved. 

They want to see it as it was during the JFKA.

There was once a proposal to tear down the TSBD. 

No slam on Dallas, but why else visit Dallas? No coastline, no mountains, no world-class or even national-class anything.

It might be a great place to live, better than most big US cities. 

You’re right. 
 

We’re obviously all connected to this with our emotions, more so than the average person. It is nonetheless a piece of world and American history. By changing it, you erase a piece of that history. People do want to see it how it was. 
 

This whole thing rather reminds me of the end scene of the Martin Scorcese film “Gangs of New York.” The graves of those who died, being replaced with development, and nobody knows they were ever there. Aside from Day-Lewis’ performance, the film wasn’t great but, this line at the end is poignant. 
 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Chris Barnard said:

You’re right. 
 

We’re obviously all connected to this with our emotions, more so than the average person. It is nonetheless a piece of world and American history. By changing it, you erase a piece of that history. People do want to see it how it was. 
 

This whole thing rather reminds me of the end scene of the Martin Scorcese film “Gangs of New York.” The graves of those who died, being replaced with development, and nobody knows they were ever there. Aside from Day-Lewis’ performance, the film wasn’t great but, this line at the end is poignant. 
 

 

More than likely, some developers have given money to the right office holders in Dallas, and now they are in line to do the work on the new Dealey Plaza. 

BTW, urban development in the US is usually 10 cents for the real work, and 90 cents for the paperwork. 

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

I mentioned this in the thread on this subject by Joseph Backes.  But I'm still unsure of the ramifications.  From the little I've read the properties in the several acre National Historical Landmark District are still owned by the City of Dallas or the owners of other designated buildings (e.g., th Dal-Tex building).  It seems they may be protected in some respects from historical alteration by the designation.  I've looked a little and intend to do so further.  Here is one source to start with.

Frequently Asked Questions - National Historic Landmarks (U.S. National Park Service) (nps.gov)

Technical Assistance - National Historic Landmarks (U.S. National Park Service) (nps.gov)

Note:  "may provide it with protection from development."

[Ron Bulman]

Linking this to come back to and read more fully.

eCFR :: 36 CFR Part 800 -- Protection of Historic Properties

[Joe Bauer]

On 11/21/2022 at 4:54 AM, Tom Gram said:

This isn’t approved yet right?  We need to do everything we can to block this travesty. I bet most JFK researchers will feel the same way - regardless of their opinions on the case - so hopefully this is an issue we can all unite on. 

I'm in.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Lori Spencer]

19 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

It seems rather obvious that this is just an attempt to fill in the grassy knoll.

They did the exact same thing on the 50th anniversary when I was there. They put the media tents and trailers in the parking lot behind the knoll up to the fence so that you couldn't go back there. They also tore up the road and paved over elm so that the x's weren't there for the 50th anniversary. This seems very reminiscent of that chicanery.

Yessir, I was there, remember that bullshit by the city well, and that’s exactly what they’re doing again now. only this time, it will be permanent! 

[Matthew Koch]

5 hours ago, Lori Spencer said:

Yessir, I was there, remember that bullshit by the city well, and that’s exactly what they’re doing again now. only this time, it will be permanent! 

Without cars driving by and getting the perspective of what you might have seen there on that day in 1963, I don't think anyone would care to go there. It would be a mega bore!

[James DiEugenio]

This is nutty.

I mean really.

We will have an article on this soon at K and K.

 

JIM D

[Lori Spencer]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

This is nutty.

I mean really.

We will have an article on this soon at K and K.

 

JIM D

Thaaaaaank you, Jim! Was hoping you’d be all over this! 
 

There was an article in the Dallas Morning News today about the public meeting on this re-design. Apparently the locals are none too happy about it. They had to move the meeting to a larger auditorium to accommodate the crowd — and that bigger auditorium was packed to capacity. 
 

https://www.dallasnews.com/arts-entertainment/architecture/2022/11/22/should-dealey-plaza-be-reimagined-dallas-leaders-and-local-residents-respond/

Edited November 23, 2022 by Lori Spencer
Added article link

[Lori Spencer]

12 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

Without cars driving by and getting the perspective of what you might have seen there on that day in 1963, I don't think anyone would care to go there. It would be a mega bore!

Agreed. Strange as it is, everyone wants to drive the actual route Kennedy’s limo took and feel that cold shiver down their spine when they pass over the spot where he lost his life. It’s macabre, perhaps, but humans are funny like that. 
 

I’ve driven over that spot thousands of times, and walked it hundreds of times. There just isn’t any comparison to the feeling you get driving the descending slope on Elm street in a car. 
 

That’s an experience I don’t want to see taken away from Dallas visitors and residents.
 

Sure, crossing the street on foot can be dangerous at certain times of day, but no more dangerous than jaywalking anywhere in heavy traffic. (Unfortunately most Dealey tourists don’t bother crossing properly at the corner of Elm & Houston.) But to my knowledge no one has ever been struck by a car or killed in that stretch of Elm Street (except JFK!), so why this sudden rush to close it off to vehicle traffic forever? 
 

And the stupid reflecting pools in the street… 🤬… the last thing Dealey Plaza needs is another ugly reflecting pool. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Lori Spencer

[Joseph Backes]

So, a Dallas preservationist is against it.  Some good news.

 

[Joe Bauer]

In my 70 plus years I've never been past the Grand Canyon going East from my home state of California.

My wife always ends my occasional musing about getting two of those Greyhound Bus Ameri-Passes and seeing the rest of the U.S. before I die with:

"Oh, and I know. You would make sure to see Roswell and where JFK was killed in Dallas Texas." 

I know now this isn't going to happen, but at least I know that Dealey Plaza is still there and looking just like it did back on 11,22,1963. A shrine to our late president's place of his most ignominious barbaric murder.

I also always dreamed of sitting in Ruby's Carousel strip joint looking just as it was in 1963. Smelling it's old rancid beer and champagne soaked wooden flooring, hearing the Wa Wa strip band and imagining all the crazy things that went on there.

Like a young, beer soused Jim Marrs getting up on stage with a stripper and making a fool of himself.

Jack Ruby jumping off the stage and beating the crap out of some out-of-control stripper ankle grabbing loudmouth and tossing them down the stairs.

Watching Jada do her animalistic growling indecency law breaking act, or Little Lynn or Kathy Kay?

Maybe catch Beverly Oliver singing "The Eyes Of Texas" on stage between acts?

Cops coming in and getting free drinks and ogling the strippers themselves including Henry Wade.

Wish I could have purchased the Carousel building myself. I would have preserved the 1963 Carousel Club forever.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[John Kennedy White]

On 11/21/2022 at 5:45 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

My guess is 99% of the people who visit Dealey Plaza do so to see a historical site, preserved. 

They want to see it as it was during the JFKA.

There was once a proposal to tear down the TSBD. 

No slam on Dallas, but why else visit Dallas? No coastline, no mountains, no world-class or even national-class anything.

It might be a great place to live, better than most big US cities. 

Having just returned from there, I agree on point A. They should really work very hard to preserve the site (including landscaping and tree pruning) to match what it looked like in 1963. They should also close Elm to vehicular traffic and figure out a different route for people to get to Stemmons north.

Dallas has world-class sports teams, so a well-timed visit can include those. But I'm horribly skewed to JFKA research so I'm not a typical tourist.

[John Kennedy White]

13 hours ago, Joseph Backes said:

So, a Dallas preservationist is against it.  Some good news.

 

I walk through the background of the shot at 1:25 on my last walkthrough before heading to the airport...

[John Kennedy White]

1 minute ago, John Kennedy White said:

I walk through the background of the shot at 1:25 on my last walkthrough before heading to the airport...

Dubbing myself The Backpack Man