Gerald Posner ROASTED in JFK poll

[Matthew Koch]

19 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

The larger the percentage for conspiracy, the better.

There's no logical fallacy here.

 

 

That's fine with me. Probably some of them will one day pick up and read a JFKA conspiracy book.

 

 

Hope so!

 

 

The stats prove that more people believe that the JFKA was a conspiracy than don't. If anyone has a mistaken belief, it ... is... you.

 

 

[Pat Speer]

While I would agree that polls don't mean much, a slight decrease in those suspecting a conspiracy in the years leading up to the 50th anniversary led some, including as I recall Posner, to claim the truth of books like Case Closed and Reclaiming History had turned the tide, and that the public was ready to move on from their doubts about the assassination.

So, if anything, the poll conducted by Posner repudiates the claims of Posner and his many supporters in the main stream media. Despite a mass propaganda blitz, their efforts at burying the truth (or at least questions about the truth) has not been successful. 

Now, that said, I would agree with Paul that the vast majority of the public knows little about the case. If they think Oswald acted alone, and are asked why, they will almost always say something stupid like "Well, they looked into it, didn't they?" or "If someone else was involved someone would have said something" which reveals their unfamiliarity with the case. While at the same time those thinking it was all a conspiracy will say something like "I saw a video that proves the driver did it" or "I don't know. Someone told me that Onassis did it so he could marry Jackie, and that makes sense to me" which reveals their own lack of familiarity. 

It is an Oswald-did-it canard, for that matter, to blame the lack of faith in the WC's findings on Oliver Stone. The film JFK barely made a dent on the public's response to the conspiracy/no conspiracy question. it did however shift many of those suspecting a conspiracy from suspecting a conspiracy involving the right wing or the mafia to suspecting a conspiracy involving the military and CIA. That this touched a nerve, moreover, can be demonstrated by the way the film forced all too many to come out of the closet and claim the film was nothing but lies, and that its central proposition--that the U.S. policy regarding Vietnam changed after the assassination--was nonsense. Well, they lost that fight and made themselves look freakin' stupid in the process. It doesn't mean they were wrong about the assassination, of course. But it did show that the knee-jerk reaction of many to the film was based upon their own lack of scholarship, and not Stone's. 

 

[John Cotter]

On 11/23/2022 at 8:20 AM, Paul Baker said:

To place any significance on the result of any such poll represents a fundamental logical fallacy. This poll, like any other, proves approximately nothing. If you asked any one person of that 80% why they believe there was a conspiracy, in all likelihood you'll get the answer: 'Because there just had to be', or 'Have you seen JFK?', or both.

A preponderance of conspiracy-oriented thinking, literature and media will guarantee similar results for years to come. Of course, it won't stop these polls being held, and it won't stop most conspiracy theorists quoting their results in the mistaken belief that they prove something.

This madness will never end!

Paul,

As a lone nut theorist, how do you explain away the incontrovertible proof of the JFKA conspiracy and of its being officially covered up, which is presented in the video below by Gil Jesus?

When I put this to prominent lone nut theorist, David Von Pein, all he could come up with is that Mark Lane had manipulated the witnesses who had observed shooting-related activity on the “grassy knoll” into making false statements on camera.

Thus, DVP made a scurrilous allegation against Mark Lane without a scintilla of evidence to support his allegation. This illustrates the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the lone nut theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODXoISgU-0M

[David Von Pein]

15 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

When I put this to prominent lone nut theorist, David Von Pein, all he could come up with is that Mark Lane had manipulated the witnesses who had observed shooting-related activity on the “grassy knoll” into making false statements on camera. Thus, DVP made a scurrilous allegation against Mark Lane without a scintilla of evidence to support his allegation.

It's simple --- in the hands of Mark Lane, some of the witnesses changed their story.....as I talk about (and verify) here:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2022/11/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1358.html#Mark-Lane

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Ron Bulman]

36 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

It's simple --- in the hands of Mark Lane, some of the witnesses changed their story.....as I talk about (and verify) here:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2022/11/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1358.html#Mark-Lane

 

Yes, it is simple Dave.   Many of the witness's statements were manipulated or ignored by the DPD, FBI and Warren Omission.  Mark Lane exposed the truth for many of them.  He is an American Hero.

[David Von Pein]

6 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

He [ Mark "The Ultimate Saint" Lane ] is an American Hero.

Please! Stop! You don't want me to lose my nice Thanksgiving dinner, do you?

Edited November 25, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Yes, it is simple Dave.   Many of the witness's statements were manipulated or ignored by the DPD, FBI and Warren Omission.  Mark Lane exposed the truth for many of them.  He is an American Hero.

Yep, the FBI heard one thing and wrote another. The Warren Commission vetted which of these statements they could use to try to prove their predetermined lone-nut narrative. Even with their control of information, they still failed to produce anything that would have got Oswald convicted in a fair trial, then or now. 
 

If you’re investigating a crime, you go where the leads take you, examining every piece of information before coming to a conclusion. You don’t decide on an outcome, then cherry pick evidence to tell that story. That’s the job of a corrupt lawyer. Wasn’t Allen Dulles a lawyer for Sullivan & Cromwell?!  The fox was in the hen house, a true Machiavellian mind. 

[Ron Bulman]

11 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Please! Stop! You don't want me to lose my nice Thanksgiving dinner, do you?

If the Truth makes you puke, don't gag on that KFC Wishbone.

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

If the Truth makes you puke....

What would you know about "The Truth" when it comes to the JFK case? You actually wrote this incredibly inaccurate statement in July 2019:

"Oswald never ordered a rifle."  -- R. Bulman; July 12, 2019

Now there's a quote that should make any truth-seeking student of the JFK case want to "puke".

But since it's in vogue here in the 21st century for conspiracy theorists to believe that all of the Klein's paperwork is fake, we now have to suffer through all of the inept and inane "Oswald Never Ordered The Rifle" arguments.

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

24 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

Yep, the FBI heard one thing and wrote another.

And you have PROOF of that, right?

[Guest]

Just now, David Von Pein said:

And you have PROOF of that, right?

It’s been covered enough here in threads. You see the same method used in the RFK case. And in the 9/11 commission, with people like Phillip Zelicow being the modern day fixer.  
 

Of course, if you want to be one of those types of serially believes in the gross incompetence of investigators, and coincidences, then carry on. 

[John Cotter]

7 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

It's simple --- in the hands of Mark Lane, some of the witnesses changed their story.....as I talk about (and verify) here:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2022/11/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1358.html#Mark-Lane

 

David, I've already responded to the material you've linked and I've shown that it provides no evidence to support your scurrilous allegation against Mark Lane.

Please specify here on this thread any such evidence.

[Michael Griffith]

Ah, yes, Gerald Posner, the guy who falsely claimed that Connally's back wound was 3.0 cm long when he surely knew that this was the post-surgical size of the wound and not the original size, which was 1.5 cm long. When the surgeon cleaned and debrided the wound, he enlarged it to 3.0 cm long, but he said the original wound was 1.5 cm long. Posner had to know this.

[Joe Bauer]

When the Ferrie/Lee Harvey Oswald junior cadet CAP camp out photo surfaced
"Ferrie never knew Oswald" Posner's credibility was instantly ruined.

98% of the last two generations of Americans probably never read much about the JFK ass. except occasional national news articles and seeing National Enquirer front page headlines while standing in grocery store check out lines.

We who were older than 5 or 6 on 11,22,1963 saw a lot in the way of JFK conspiracy books, articles, news, documentaries, interviews etc.

Every anniversary for 30 years the massive audience Coast To Coast AM radio show made the JFK assassination the main topic of conversation.

Mark Lane was famous and widely reported. Jim Garrison made the JFK A. main stream news for years. His appearance on Johnny Carson was a national audience event.

In my opinion, anyone who witnessed Ruby shooting Oswald to death right inside the DPD basement with 70 armed security around LIVE on national TV were shocked ( forced ) into sensing a conspiracy. You are talking 10's of millions of Americans!

Then when LBJ chose the seriously JFK hating adversary Allen Dulles and FBI informant Gerald Ford to be on the investigation committee to "find out who really killed JFK and why?" Americans had just another reason to feel more suspicion and doubt about it all.

LBJ "himself" in a 1969 interview by Walter Cronkite said " I don't think anyone can be absolutely sure whether others may have been involved" in the JFK shooting.  WHAT !!! ???

How many perfectly reasonable other reasons do LNers need to hear to understand why the majority of Americans feel the weight of logic forces them to consider a conspiracy explanation versus a LN one regards the JFK assassination?

If LBJ himself had doubt about the LN scenario ...where do you go from there?

There are 100 powerful side stories a complete JFK assassination neophyte could find in just a "Cliff's Notes" search of the event suggesting conspiracy versus far less suggesting the LN finding.

Sylivia Odio

Orest Pena

Camp Street address on Oswald's flyers

Ferrie's CAP cadet campout photo with Oswald

Dallas police dispatcher Billy Grammer

Dallas Sheriff Al Maddox

Well credentialed journalist Seth Kantor meeting Jack Ruby in Parkland hospital the early afternoon of 11,22,1963

D.A. Henry Wade pretending he didn't personally know Jack Ruby in his first press conference

Julia Ann Mercer

Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry claiming only 25 Dallas police officers even knew Jack Ruby

Rose Cheramie and LA state police Officer Frances Fruge

Governor Connelly's main surgeon stating he did not believe the "Magic Bullet" could not have caused the internal injury damage to Connally.

JFK autopsy head Commander Humes stating he didn't weigh JFK's missing parts brain and didn't know who did or why it's weight was listed as heavier than a normal man's intact brain.

And on and on and on.

Lyndon Johnson interview with Walter Cronkite, …

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5psrZmT0tY

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Denny Zartman]

9 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Yes, it is simple Dave.   Many of the witness's statements were manipulated or ignored by the DPD, FBI and Warren Omission.  Mark Lane exposed the truth for many of them.  He is an American Hero.

Absolutely this 100%. Anyone interested in the truth about the JFKA owes Mark Lane a huge debt of gratitude. He had tremendous courage and tenacity.