David Atlee Phillips: Oswald never went to Mexico!

[Steve Roe]

On 1/2/2023 at 7:46 AM, Mart Hall said:

Lopez said it was not Oswald and he dealt with the applicant on each occasion. 

Lopez? Who are you referring to? Azcue, Duran?

[David Josephs]

On 12/25/2022 at 5:06 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Here's a transcript of the relevant part of the video. Mark Lane speaking:

Oswald was to go to Cuba from Mexico city and then fly on to the Soviet Union. That's the story that was told to the Warren Commission. And the CIA went on to say, however, we don't believe that the Russians or Cubans were in any way involved. But if the story gets out, people will not believe us and that's why hundreds of thousands of Americans will die in a war which is going to take place. That's what they told Earl Warren and scared him. He really was frightened by this.

The problem is, the story was a fabrication. Oswald had not been to Mexico City. The person who designed that whole story was a man named David Atlee Phillips who ran the agency from his office in Mexico City. And not long before he died, several years ago, he spoke at USC and I was on the program with him. He said that, in fact, Oswald never was in Mexico City, which destroyed the entire story which had been told to the Warren Commission.

And when that was reported, an apologist for the Warren Commission had said that yes, he said it. We can't deny that he said it but this is very well publicized, this statement, that Mark Lane had subjected him to a cruel, grueling, cross-examination and confused him and that's why he said it.

It was a meeting at USC. I was on the panel and he was on the panel. I directed no question to him at all. And a student got up at the end and raised the subject, which I had not, and was, can you tell us about Mexico City, Mr. Phillips? There was no cross-examination. It was just a kid asking the question and that's when, Phillips then said Oswald was never there.

And so the cover-up was that I subjected him to this cross-examination which I didn't ask him anything, it was a student that said it, but that became the mantra of the establishment to try to explain how the man who ran the Central Intelligence Agency for the United States and elsewhere, and did it from his office in Mexico City, made that statement because of my brilliant cross-examination, although I never asked him a question. And so here we are now, 50 years later -- almost 50 years later, and there still are files which are classified. We don't even know the number but we know they are in the tens and thousands of documents that are classified because of reasons of national security, which obviously makes no sense 50 years later.

 

 

I think Hoover knew On October 10 when he sees that cable...  He KNOWS Oswald is elsewhere... on the way to Odio with "comrades" via Austin.   hidden within over 1600 documents is the reality he never went and Tarasoff aided as a CIA contract employee...  FWIW

[David Josephs]

On 12/26/2022 at 12:50 AM, James DiEugenio said:

I hope everyone had a good holiday and I wish you all a Happy New Year.

I am sorry I did not reply to Sandy, but Mexico CIty is so complicated and so contingent on things  not reliable that I did not feel like working on it on a Holy Day.

But I will just add this: one reason we do not know the whole story is that Phillips and Goodpasture lied to the HSCA. And they lied on material points.

It was so bad that Danny and Eddy wrote up bills of indictment for them both.

The reasons being evident in the Lopez Report.

And I ask you to consult Gaeton Fonzi's book for the memorable scene when Danny confronted Phillips with the color coded chart of all the disinformation artists who came out of the woods to manipulate the aftermath of Oswald not being in Mexico City.

Danny knew they all related back to Phillips.  As he unveiled the chart, Phillips ended up going from one to three cigarettes in the ash tray, and apparently oblivious to how many he had already going..

Consciousness of guilt?

 

 

Lopez's report aided... was he aware of what he was doing with this one sentence?

 

ps... all the info he had on Mexico came from the CIA or CIA related assets...

Edited January 3, 2023 by David Josephs

[David Josephs]

 

On 12/26/2022 at 1:07 PM, Pat Speer said:

Yes, Oswald went to Mexico. There's a ton of evidence supporting as much.  

And yet, even so, the photographs a low-level CIA employee thought were of him were of someone else, quite possibly someone impersonating him. 

Why? 

Because he wasn't where the CIA said he was when they said he was there. And the higher-ups couldn't reveal this without revealing an ongoing operation. 

Because some muckety-mucks thought there was a mole within the agency with access to secret records and were thereby hiding from where certain information had been received. When they received intelligence from spies within the embassy, they would pretend they got the info from a wiretap, etc. They would have someone pretending to be that person make a phone call and leave a message revealing the nature of the info obtained from the spy. "Hi, my name is Oswald, and I like Russia and I thought I would come into the embassy and reveal national secrets", whatever. 

To admit this impersonation to the WC would have been both embarrassing and damaging to national security. 

We can suspect the CIA had photos of Oswald in Mexico in their possession in the days after the assassination. It was just that the timing of these photos was in conflict with the phony timeline they'd invented. So they tossed them in the burn bin. 

 

No Pat... he didn't..  For the entire month of November Hoover had agents and assets looking for any sign of Oswald in Mexico including their asset OCHOA at the Gobernacion

A day before the famous "memos" go out Phillips arrives in Mexico...  amazing.

 

 

The #1 double agent in the Cuban Embassy was LITAMIL-9 who was extremely close to AZCUE and helped identify photos of visitors as part of his gig there...  He like everyone else can only point to CIA transcripts and FBI controlled evidence for his being there....  Maybe read one of my 5 chapters on the subject...  The FBI's reconstruction of a journey that never happened is absurd.

 

For example...  if the man was known as "O.H. LEE" why is the evidence offered to use with his name alphabetized under "O" ??  between MOORE and OUELLET...  and this is just the tip of the disinformation iceberg...

The man Ruby killed was not in Mexico at the end of Sept/Oct 1963... and there is truly no reason to believe anyone impersonated him...  spycraft Pat...  Phillips was a master of CI...  Alvarado, DURAN, Tarasoff, and so many more....  read the actual FBI reports and see if what they say makes any sense...  or you can just read my series at K&K....  they arbitrarily put Gobernacion employees on the passenger lists and then had them testify it was Oswald...  Teresa PROENZA claims Oswald first speaks to her when entering the building...  talk about a backstory on a person...

No Pat... our little Oswald was elsewhere...  if someone was there trying to leave the impression Oswald was there... they did an incredibly bad job

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by David Josephs

[David Josephs]

On 12/26/2022 at 9:04 PM, Matt Allison said:

Yes, and ostensibly we have a way of knowing if that is true or not, via this:

 

I go into the monthly summary reports in my essays...  For September there is NO MENTION OF OSWALD while mentioning 2 direct leads from the same sources...

CHOADEN/PHILLIPS sends himself pouches from Mexico as he traveled back and forth

[David Josephs]

On 12/27/2022 at 4:47 PM, Matt Allison said:

LHO visited the Odios Wednesday night, September 25th, 1963, so it still works within a timeline of him going to MC.

I believe it was Thursday night

The Texas Employment Commission building is but 4-5 miles from the cafe where Mrs. Norman worked, L.B. Day confirms her story while Leon Oswald is not at Sylvia Odio's in Dallas until the early evening of the 26th. Sylvia's testimony suggests that the 26th or 27th was possible and that she had been to work that day (although she finally does settle on the evening of the 26th as the time and date).

[David Josephs]

On 12/30/2022 at 4:07 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Oh my gosh, I've always been under the impression the J. Edgar Hoover thought that the Oswald at the CUBAN Consulate was an imposter. But reading the evidence for myself, I see that it was the Oswald at the SOVIET Embassy that Hoover said was an imposter.

Does anybody know if Hoover felt the same way about the Oswald at the Cuban Consulate? Or is our knowledge of that guy also being an imposter based only on other sources? (Duran's and Azcue's descriptions, Cuban intelligence, two CIA plants not seeing Oswald.)

 

[David Josephs]

On 1/1/2023 at 2:31 PM, Evan Marshall said:

I am fascinated how Phillips has morphed from a conspirator to a reliable source of information

Interesting comment Evan... but I believe an overshot.

If one is able to read and connect information over a vast network of data, we find that some of what he says does wind up being substantiated and authentic... although wrapped inn other lies and misdirection.

I would never use the CIA or MAFIA as sources for reliable information until it is Authenticated...  until then I'd say the fall into the "Really good leads" category.

 

FWIW

[Mart Hall]

1 hour ago, Steve Roe said:

Lopez? Who are you referring to? Azcue, Duran?

I was referring to Azcue Lopez, in his HSCA testimony Azcue Lopez says the man who came to the consulate did not look like the photograph of LHO that was attached to the application. 

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

Interesting comment Evan... but I believe an overshot.

If one is able to read and connect information over a vast network of data, we find that some of what he says does wind up being substantiated and authentic... although wrapped inn other lies and misdirection.

I would never use the CIA or MAFIA as sources for reliable information until it is Authenticated...  until then I'd say the fall into the "Really good leads" category.

 

FWIW

You always have good info.  This puts things in perspective.

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/oswald_m1.htm  In reading Marina's testimony, she never states that Oswald went to Mexico.  She however says that he wanted to go to Mexico not that he went to Mexico.

[Matt Allison]

4 hours ago, David Josephs said:

I go into the monthly summary reports in my essays...  For September there is NO MENTION OF OSWALD while mentioning 2 direct leads from the same sources...

David- if you have access to the September and/or October reports can you post a link to them? Thanks

[David Josephs]

2 hours ago, Mart Hall said:

I was referring to Azcue Lopez, in his HSCA testimony Azcue Lopez says the man who came to the consulate did not look like the photograph of LHO that was attached to the application. 

Yes, Consul Eusabio AZCUE Lopez specifically says it was not the Oswald killed by Ruby...  On a side note, AMMUG-1 tells us the manner in which AZCUE is described as dealing with an American wanting to go to Russia/Cuba as completely the opposite of how he needed to behave... as if he know this was not a defector...  AZUCE's job was to keep tabs upon and turn Americans interested in Cuba/Russia...  He like most of them was KGB.

As to that photo...  I get pretty detailed into how that could not have been the images attached to the application...  the top two were found in his photo album and is described by Marina as a photo of him in Russia.

Worse yet the signatures on both applications are different as well as the carbon not coming close to matching the original....  and finally, if you go to the exhibits, the top of one is cut off while the bottom - with his signature - is cut off the other....

CORNWELL - So, from all the circumstances, did it appear to your that he just went somewhere locally and had the pictures made?
TIRADO - Yeah. I think that I already explained (to) him where he could take the photographs.
CORNWELL - You told him some locations in town where ge could go? Were there some right in the neighborhood of the Consulate there?
TIRADO - That I don't remember.

 

 

 

CORNWELL - And what did you do with the photographs?
TIRADO - Stapled them.
CORNWELL - Stapled them?
TIRADO - Yes.
CORNWELL - On top of the application.
TIRADO - Yes.

Please notice the photocopy of the CC does not have a staple holding the photo in place... there's nothing there...

The WC choose not to show DURAN the photo on the application while a call between ARMAS and Dorticos specifically state that DURAN did send in an application and it was declined:

  

[James DiEugenio]

David:

DId not the Russians approve the application?

[David Josephs]

On 1/3/2023 at 1:17 PM, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

You always have good info.  This puts things in perspective.

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/oswald_m1.htm  In reading Marina's testimony, she never states that Oswald went to Mexico.  She however says that he wanted to go to Mexico not that he went to Mexico.

Within the the days after 11/22 she is asked by the FBI and SS and both her answers were negative as to her having any knowledge Oswald was going to Mexico...  Ruth says the same.  this is the FBI

 

SS report

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by David Josephs

[David Josephs]

1 minute ago, James DiEugenio said:

David:

DId not the Russians approve the application?

I don't know that we've seen the application Duran refers to - the one she sends to Cuba for a visa... the one in our records does not show a denial...  I am of the opinion the photos are attached to "the" applications after the fact.