W. Niederhut Posted Friday at 09:32 PM Share Posted Friday at 09:32 PM (edited) 18 minutes ago, Bill Fite said: I was happy Obama was elected. He had a chance for real change and progress but passed on it. Bill, I was truly surprised by Obama's decision to retain Robert Gates as Sec Def-- and to continue prosecuting the Bush/Cheney "War on Terror" in Afghanistan, Anbar Province, Syria, Libya, and Yemen. When I voted for Obama in 2008, I thought he was a JFK-caliber peacenik. Jeremy Scahill described some of the Obama era U.S. military carnage in his book, Dirty Wars, and Jeffrey Sachs first brought the history of CIA Operation Timber Sycamore to my attention. Obama signed off on Timber Sycamore, and also joined the NATO war in Libya. I recall reading somewhere that Leon Panetta told Obama in 2009, "You can't just say, 'no,' to these guys" (i.e., the CIA and Joint Chiefs.) Edited Friday at 09:34 PM by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fite Posted Friday at 09:47 PM Share Posted Friday at 09:47 PM 11 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: I was truly surprised by Obama's decision to retain Robert Gates as Sec Def-- and to continue prosecuting the Bush/Cheney "War on Terror" in Afghanistan, Anbar Province, Syria, Libya, and Yemen. When I voted for Obama in 2008, I thought he was a JFK-caliber peacenik. Jeremy Scahill described some of the Obama era U.S. military carnage in his book, Dirty Wars, and Jeffrey Sachs first brought the history of CIA Operation Timber Sycamore to my attention. Obama signed off on Timber Sycamore, and also joined the NATO war in Libya. I recall reading somewhere that Leon Panetta told Obama in 2009, "You can't just say, 'no,' to these guys" (i.e., the CIA and Joint Chiefs.) W - same here. I've read somewhere that someone asked Obama why he didn't do more and his response was - 'You know what happened to Dr. King'. The NATO war in Libya was a horrible tragedy. Clinton claimed it as the achievement she was most proud of. She worked pretty hard on getting Europeans on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted Saturday at 12:00 AM Share Posted Saturday at 12:00 AM Don't go to Vegas right now if you don't have to. High yesterday was 118. 5th day in a row over 115. I think the article I read said the low last night was 93. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted Saturday at 01:55 AM Share Posted Saturday at 01:55 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted Saturday at 02:00 AM Share Posted Saturday at 02:00 AM 4 hours ago, Bill Fite said: W - same here. I've read somewhere that someone asked Obama why he didn't do more and his response was - 'You know what happened to Dr. King'. The NATO war in Libya was a horrible tragedy. Clinton claimed it as the achievement she was most proud of. She worked pretty hard on getting Europeans on board. You know who wasn't on board? Joe Biden. https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/joe-biden-libya-wrong-224595 Biden: I was right about Libya Intervening in Libya was the wrong decision, Vice President Joe Biden said in a recent interview with Charlie Rose, suggesting that his worst fears and suspicions about what would happen once dictator Muammar Qadhafi was ousted have come to pass. “There are those who argue, ‘Look, we’ve had a problem — overthrowing these dictators, like Mubarak and like Qadhafi and — and like Saddam. And it’s come back and we might ask the question: ‘Would we have been better off if they’d stayed?’ Saddam, Qadhafi, Mubarak?” Rose asked in an interview aired in full on PBS Monday evening and in part on CBS Tuesday morning. Biden replied that he had “argued strongly” within the White House “against going ... to Libya,” a stance that put him at odds with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, now the Democratic Party’s presumptive nominee, whom the vice president endorsed earlier this month after she crossed the threshold of necessary delegates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted Saturday at 05:30 AM Share Posted Saturday at 05:30 AM 7 hours ago, Bill Fite said: I've read somewhere that someone asked Obama why he didn't do more and his response was - 'You know what happened to Dr. King'. This. I don't have the ref handy but I'm sure it's Googleable; the number of death threats to the President shot up horrifically after Obama took office. I think he played ball on some things he would have preferred not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted Saturday at 06:28 AM Share Posted Saturday at 06:28 AM 8 hours ago, W. Niederhut said: Bill, I was truly surprised by Obama's decision to retain Robert Gates as Sec Def-- and to continue prosecuting the Bush/Cheney "War on Terror" in Afghanistan, Anbar Province, Syria, Libya, and Yemen. When I voted for Obama in 2008, I thought he was a JFK-caliber peacenik. Jeremy Scahill described some of the Obama era U.S. military carnage in his book, Dirty Wars, and Jeffrey Sachs first brought the history of CIA Operation Timber Sycamore to my attention. Obama signed off on Timber Sycamore, and also joined the NATO war in Libya. I recall reading somewhere that Leon Panetta told Obama in 2009, "You can't just say, 'no,' to these guys" (i.e., the CIA and Joint Chiefs.) That's true W. Not to mention, Bush's War in Iraq! Some guy told me this online, and I didn't believe him but I found out it was true. Obama completely signed on to the George Bush "purge in Iraq" which was sort of his dying gasp attempt to try to save his reputation for getting us in the War. The maximum number of troops in Iraq were under Obama, not Bush! Obama escalated upon getting in office. But it is true that when Obama left office , he left fewer troops than he inherited, but that was after 8 years! ****** RFK Jr. sent text apologizing to woman who accused him of sexual assault https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/12/rfk-sexual-assault-apology-eliza-cooney/?wpisrc=nl_politics&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3e4b32a%2F669102cfe22cdf7ea5257ec6%2F646f594f44d19211b692299e%2F30%2F61%2F669102cfe22cdf7ea5257ec6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted Saturday at 06:29 AM Share Posted Saturday at 06:29 AM 4 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: Thanks Cliff. Lock him up, lock him up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted Saturday at 06:37 AM Share Posted Saturday at 06:37 AM 14 hours ago, Bill Fite said: From Robert Reich's Substack: (highlights mine) Who exactly is trying to push Biden out? A lesson in where political power really lies in America Yep. It appears many, if not all of the House Dems asking for Biden to step away are essentially being blackmailed; they're being told to publicly pull their support for Biden or have donor campaign money withheld from them. Seems like it should be illegal, but I'm sure it isn't... "Some big donors are threatening to withhold millions of dollars in pledges to pressure Biden to step aside, and rewarding lawmakers who urge the president to let someone else take his place." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fite Posted Saturday at 08:38 AM Share Posted Saturday at 08:38 AM 1 hour ago, Matt Allison said: It appears many, if not all of the House Dems asking for Biden to step away are essentially being blackmailed; they're being told to publicly pull their support for Biden or have donor campaign money withheld from them. Matt - this could definitely be happening. Who is threatening to withhold the campaign money - donors or the Democratic Party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted Saturday at 11:24 AM Share Posted Saturday at 11:24 AM 2 hours ago, Bill Fite said: Matt - this could definitely be happening. Who is threatening to withhold the campaign money - donors or the Democratic Party? Donors. They'll be back. The big story now is Project 2025. By trying to distance himself Trump amplifies it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bacon Posted Saturday at 01:11 PM Share Posted Saturday at 01:11 PM Most of those calling for Joe Biden to step down are absolutely hysterical and need to be slapped back to reality--the latest of those is Jim Himes of Conneticut. He and many others are completely panicked. I'm tired of watching the panic. Most Americans who are asleep right now, will, by November, be completely aware of the stark choice between Trumpism and Democracy. By then, they will feel as I do now. I'd vote for Joe Biden in a coma rather than Trump. It's not a race between two men, it's a race between two objectives. And I do feel that this dust-up is beginning to fade away. The polls by and large show a dead heat and there is not a groundswell of Americans calling for Biden to step down. Sheesh, get a grip, people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fite Posted Saturday at 04:35 PM Share Posted Saturday at 04:35 PM (edited) 5 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: The big story now is Project 2025 It would be the big story, but for....... Edited Saturday at 04:35 PM by Bill Fite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted Saturday at 05:17 PM Share Posted Saturday at 05:17 PM 41 minutes ago, Bill Fite said: It would be the big story, but for....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted Saturday at 05:51 PM Share Posted Saturday at 05:51 PM 4 hours ago, Paul Bacon said: Most of those calling for Joe Biden to step down are absolutely hysterical and need to be slapped back to reality--the latest of those is Jim Himes of Conneticut. He and many others are completely panicked. I'm tired of watching the panic. Most Americans who are asleep right now, will, by November, be completely aware of the stark choice between Trumpism and Democracy. By then, they will feel as I do now. I'd vote for Joe Biden in a coma rather than Trump. It's not a race between two men, it's a race between two objectives. And I do feel that this dust-up is beginning to fade away. The polls by and large show a dead heat and there is not a groundswell of Americans calling for Biden to step down. Sheesh, get a grip, people... Paul, You're right about the fact that this Biden conundrum has become tiresome and, most likely, counter-productive in an election year where the public needs to rally around the goal of keeping Trump and his Project 2025 fascists out of government. But, I haven't seen any "hysteria" from liberals who are concerned about Biden's declining vigor. They are realists. Kirk Gallaway and I were talking last year about the advisability of Biden retiring and opening up the Democratic primaries to a younger generation of torch bearers. IMO, Biden lacked the wisdom and humility to make the right call, then, in a timely way. He and his inner circle also erred by concealing his obvious declining vigor (and early-stage Parkinsonism, IMO) from the public until the fateful disastrous debate. BUT, here we are in July of 2024. At this late date, it will be difficult to replace Biden, and, in any case, he is adamant about remaining in office. He isn't going to relinquish his car keys. I think it was George Bernard Shaw who said, "If we can't have what we like, we must learn to like what we have." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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