RFK Jr discusses his candidacy, and talks about Operation Northwoods

[W. Niederhut]

10 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

Would this video clip make you more or less likely to vote RFK Jr. for president?

 

Gerry,

       Honestly, this video would make me more likely to vote for RFK, Jr.

       RFK, Jr. is spot on about Big Oil and the Koch/Heartland Institute's climate change denial bullsh*t.

       It's something that really pushes my buttons-- the heavily-funded betrayal of humanity for short-term oil industry profits.

Edited April 23, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Gerry Down]

5 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

More. You? It is out of context, and not scripted, not meant literally. We are likely to see all sorts of short clips like this about this candidate, and for the most part only this candidate. 

Its a bit extreme to be calling for jailing members of the public for views they hold. These kinds of comments are likely to turn off a large portion of the electorate. 

Who will he be calling for to be jailed next?

[Paul Brancato]

16 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

Its a bit extreme to be calling for jailing members of the public for views they hold. These kinds of comments are likely to turn off a large portion of the electorate. 

Who will he be calling for to be jailed next?

You make my point. Is anyone going to be playing Biden’s comments at the Clarence Thomas hearings or in the lead up to the 2003 Iraq War? 

[W. Niederhut]

55 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

Its a bit extreme to be calling for jailing members of the public for views they hold. These kinds of comments are likely to turn off a large portion of the electorate. 

Who will he be calling for to be jailed next?

Gerry,

     What RFK, Jr. is condemning here goes far beyond mere "public views."

    These oil industry jackals have known for years that fossil fuel burning was frying the planet.

     But instead of trying to help the human race, they spent billions on climate change denial propaganda in the U.S.  It's a bona fide crime against humanity.

     (Not sure about the U.K.)

     They deliberately lied about this gravely serious problem, and promoted a subculture of climate change denial here in the U.S., in conjunction with their Republican Party gofers, (and some Democrats, like Joe Manchin.)

Edited April 23, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[James DiEugenio]

On 4/22/2023 at 6:04 AM, Paul Brancato said:

Kirk - you never miss a chance to go after Jim D. I find it annoying and pathetic.

Look can we get real?  Bobby had this issue correct.  Whatever one's sympathies are or were, the military realities on the ground are now completely different than they were a year ago.  The new documents prove that MacGregor and Ritter were and are correct. The MSM was completely wrong.   Biden should have made Zelensky settle this a long time ago. He did not.  Now, Ukraine is getting slaughtered. Bakhmut was Zelensky's Stlaingrad, one of the truly stupid tactical moves in years if not decades.  Ukraine is down to drafting young kids and old people.  While Russia has a 700,000 man army on hand.

But beyond that, Russia has shown us the face of what 21st century warfare is.  It is war by drone, and by long range artillery so you do not have to commit combat troops. (see Hindustan Times) The artillery Russia has now, especially those scary rocket launchers, destroy targets sight unseen before the victim knows what hit them.   But beyond that, Russia has destroyed Ukraine's power grid, and almost destroyed Ukraine's air defense apparatus. This means that when they start their offensive, it is going to be bombs away. 

A year ago I said, it is utterly stupid not to negotiate.  Because the longer this went on the worst it would get for Zelensky. But as far as I am concerned, Biden is as bad as Hillary, they are both Dem versions of Neocons.

But as bad as all that is, I think that geopolitically its even worse.  Because the so called brutal sanctions did not hurt Russia as much as they hurt Europe. And now you have China and Russia even closer together than ever.  India is now going to join and I predict this will be the New World Order built around the  Road and Beltway initiative.  Just compare what China and Russia spend on defense as percent of national budget vs what we do.

Therefore, this has turned into a disaster and a big propaganda victory for the new order.  Because when this is over, China will step in and help rebuild Ukraine.  And beyond that, the idiotic neocons now want trouble with Taiwan! Which is as stupid as Ukraine. China could overrunTaiwan in about a week if they wanted to. And we could not do anything about it.  Because the vaunted aircraft carriers are now rendered useless by hypersonics-another new face of warfare..  As MacGregor said you could use them off the coast of Africa maybe.

I once gave an hour long lecture up in San Francisco about how the deliberate Johnson/Nixon destruction of JFK's foreign policy paved the way for the Neocon revolution, run by Cheney and Rumsfeld as a way to sideline Kissinger and his detente.  That Neocon mania took over both parties.

As Charles Beard said a century ago, the Establishment wants Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace.  JFK would not do it in either Vietnam or Cuba and he wanted detente with Russia. So they got rid of him and deep sixed his foreign policy which is unrecognizable today.  They might put it in a museum.

Edited April 24, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Look can we get real?  Bobby had this issue correct.  Whatever one's sympathies are or were, the military realities on the ground are now completely different than they were a year ago.  The new documents prove that MacGregor and Ritter were and are correct. The MSM was completely wrong.   Biden should have made Zelensky settle this a long time ago. He did not.  Now, Ukraine is getting slaughtered. Bakhmut was Zelensky's Stlaingrad, one of the truly stupid tactical moves in years if not decades.  Ukraine is down to drafting young kids and old people.  While Russia has a 700,000 man army on hand.

But beyond that, Russia has shown us the face of what 21st century warfare is.  It is war by drone, and by long range artillery so you do not have to commit combat troops. (see Hindustan Times) The artillery Russia has now, especially those scary rocket launchers destroy targets sight unseen before the victim knows what hit them.   But beyond that, Russia has destroyed Ukraine's power grid, and almost destroyed Ukraine's air defense apparatus. This means that when they start their offensive, it is going to be bombs away. 

A year ago I said, it is utterly stupid not to negotiate.  Because the longer this went on the worst it would get for Zelensky. But as far as I am concerned, Biden is as bad as Hillary, they are both Dem versions of Neocons.

But as bad as all that is, I think that geopolitically its even worse.  Because the so called brutal sanctions did not hurt Russia as much as they hurt Europe. And now you have China and Russia even closer together than ever.  India is now going to join and I predict this will be the New World Order built around the the Road and Beltway initiative.  

Therefore, this has turned into a disaster and a big propaganda victory for the new order.  Because when this is over, China will step in and help rebuild Ukraine.  And beyond that, the idiotic neocons now want trouble with Taiwan! Which is as stupid as Ukraine. China could overrunTaiwan in about a week if they wanted to. And we could not do anything about it.  Because the vaunted aircraft carriers are now rendered useless by hypersonics-another new face of warfare..  As MacGregor said you could use them off the coast of Africa.

I once gave an hour long lecture up in San Francisco about how the Johnson/Nixon destruction of JFK's foreign policy paved the way for the Neocon revolution, run by Cheney and Rumsfeld as a way to sideline Kissinger and his detente.  That Neocon mania took over both parties.

As Charles Beard said a century ago, the Establishment wants Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace.  JFK would not do it it either Vietnam or Cuba and he wanted detente with Russia. So they got rid of him and deep sixed his foreign policy which is unrecognizable today. 

A few of us said most of this in real time. And a belligerent majority here preferred to believe illusions from MSM.

War is a racket, this one has been no different. 
 

[Paul Brancato]

Agree - the way they spin this document release, saying that Russia got a hold of them and falsified them, well maybe, but how on earth can we tell? Its logical to surmise that it’s we who are being fed false info in order to justify sending arms. 

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks to you both.

From what I can see, those appear to be real CIA docs.

[Leslie Sharp]

7 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Would this video clip make you more or less likely to vote RFK Jr. for president?

 

@John Cotter 

 Is it any wonder the US and the west is in so much trouble.  

“As their fortunes grew, Charles and David Koch became the primary underwriters of hardline libertarian politics in America,” Mayer writes. Charles’s goal was to “tear the government out ‘at the root’.” — Jane Mayer, Dark Money: the Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right. 

In his review of Mayer's breakthrough investigation, Charles Kaiser continues,

Twenty years after collaborating with the N-azis, Fred Koch had lost none of his taste for extremism. In 1958, he was one of the 11 original members of the John Birch Society, an organization which accused scores of prominent Americans, including President Dwight Eisenhower, of communist sympathies.

In 1960, Koch wrote: “The colored man looms large in the Communist plan to take over America.” He strongly supported the movement to impeach chief justice Earl Warren, after the supreme court voted to desegregate public schools in Brown v Board of Education. His sons became Birchers too, although Charles was more enamored of “antigovernment economic writers” than communist conspiracies.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/17/dark-money-review-N-azi oil-the-koch-brothers-and-a-rightwing-revolution

Could RFK Jr. be oblivious to the implications of his being used as an "anti-vax poster child" for the Birch Society's overarching motives? JBS has long been on the ideological front line for the more insidious agenda of the Koch-funded fascist swamps, including ALEC — the legislative/private sector lobbying group that continues to draft model bills without public input. High on the list of bills: reduction of  corporate taxation, weakening environmental regulations, imposition of inhumane immigration policies, impede labor unions, impose restrictive voter laws, interference with reasonable gun reform.  

How can RFK Jr. rationalize the slightest appearance of solidarity with anything the Koch dynasty, ALEC, or the John Birch Society stand for?  

And if Libertarians are behind him, might we ask why. 
 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[James DiEugenio]

BTW, I hope people understood from what I wrote how smart the military   guys were in China and Russia.

They examined the USA and designed asymetrical arsenals.

One example:  How much is a new aircraft carrier? 13 billion

How much do ten hypersonic missiles cost China? About 160 million.   They actually sent one around the world.

https://www.voanews.com/a/us-defense-officials-china-is-leading-in-hypersonic-weapons/7000160.html

Edited April 24, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

@John Cotter 

 Is it any wonder the US and the west is in so much trouble.  

“As their fortunes grew, Charles and David Koch became the primary underwriters of hardline libertarian politics in America,” Mayer writes. Charles’s goal was to “tear the government out ‘at the root’.” — Jane Mayer, Dark Money: the Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right. 

In his review of Mayer's breakthrough investigation, Charles Kaiser continues,

Twenty years after collaborating with the N-azis, Fred Koch had lost none of his taste for extremism. In 1958, he was one of the 11 original members of the John Birch Society, an organization which accused scores of prominent Americans, including President Dwight Eisenhower, of communist sympathies.

In 1960, Koch wrote: “The colored man looms large in the Communist plan to take over America.” He strongly supported the movement to impeach chief justice Earl Warren, after the supreme court voted to desegregate public schools in Brown v Board of Education. His sons became Birchers too, although Charles was more enamored of “antigovernment economic writers” than communist conspiracies.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/17/dark-money-review-N-azi oil-the-koch-brothers-and-a-rightwing-revolution

Could RFK Jr. be oblivious to the implications of his being used as an "anti-vax poster child" for the Birch Society's overarching motives? JBS has long been on the ideological front line for the more insidious agenda of the Koch-funded fascist swamps, including ALEC — the legislative/private sector lobbying group that continues to draft model bills without public input. High on the list of bills: reduction of  corporate taxation, weakening environmental regulations, imposition of inhumane immigration policies, impede labor unions, impose restrictive voter laws, interference with reasonable gun reform.  

How can RFK Jr. rationalize the slightest appearance of solidarity with anything the Koch dynasty, ALEC, or the John Birch Society stand for?  

And if Libertarians are behind him, might we ask why. 
 

 

Read the book. It’ll make more sense to you.  

[John Cotter]

14 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Look can we get real?  Bobby had this issue correct.  Whatever one's sympathies are or were, the military realities on the ground are now completely different than they were a year ago.  The new documents prove that MacGregor and Ritter were and are correct. The MSM was completely wrong.   Biden should have made Zelensky settle this a long time ago. He did not.  Now, Ukraine is getting slaughtered. Bakhmut was Zelensky's Stlaingrad, one of the truly stupid tactical moves in years if not decades.  Ukraine is down to drafting young kids and old people.  While Russia has a 700,000 man army on hand.

But beyond that, Russia has shown us the face of what 21st century warfare is.  It is war by drone, and by long range artillery so you do not have to commit combat troops. (see Hindustan Times) The artillery Russia has now, especially those scary rocket launchers, destroy targets sight unseen before the victim knows what hit them.   But beyond that, Russia has destroyed Ukraine's power grid, and almost destroyed Ukraine's air defense apparatus. This means that when they start their offensive, it is going to be bombs away. 

A year ago I said, it is utterly stupid not to negotiate.  Because the longer this went on the worst it would get for Zelensky. But as far as I am concerned, Biden is as bad as Hillary, they are both Dem versions of Neocons.

But as bad as all that is, I think that geopolitically its even worse.  Because the so called brutal sanctions did not hurt Russia as much as they hurt Europe. And now you have China and Russia even closer together than ever.  India is now going to join and I predict this will be the New World Order built around the  Road and Beltway initiative.  Just compare what China and Russia spend on defense as percent of national budget vs what we do.

Therefore, this has turned into a disaster and a big propaganda victory for the new order.  Because when this is over, China will step in and help rebuild Ukraine.  And beyond that, the idiotic neocons now want trouble with Taiwan! Which is as stupid as Ukraine. China could overrunTaiwan in about a week if they wanted to. And we could not do anything about it.  Because the vaunted aircraft carriers are now rendered useless by hypersonics-another new face of warfare..  As MacGregor said you could use them off the coast of Africa maybe.

I once gave an hour long lecture up in San Francisco about how the deliberate Johnson/Nixon destruction of JFK's foreign policy paved the way for the Neocon revolution, run by Cheney and Rumsfeld as a way to sideline Kissinger and his detente.  That Neocon mania took over both parties.

As Charles Beard said a century ago, the Establishment wants Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace.  JFK would not do it in either Vietnam or Cuba and he wanted detente with Russia. So they got rid of him and deep sixed his foreign policy which is unrecognizable today.  They might put it in a museum.

Well said, James.

[Michael Griffith]

9 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:

@John Cotter

 Could RFK Jr. be oblivious to the implications of his being used as an "anti-vax poster child" for the Birch Society's overarching motives? JBS has long been on the ideological front line for the more insidious agenda of the Koch-funded fascist swamps, including ALEC — the legislative/private sector lobbying group that continues to draft model bills without public input. 

We need to understand that fascism and communism are merely two sides of the same totalitarian coin. Both believe in total government power. Both believe the government has the right to own or seize any business or property that it desires, that the government should exercise total control over the news media, that the government should exercise total control over churches/religions, that the government should exercise total over control over education, etc.

The Koch brothers and the JBS have opposed these authoritarian ideas and have advocated the opposite view of government power and authority.

Once again we see a manifestation of the unfortunate fact that this forum is dominated by ultra-liberals who insist on describing anyone who disagrees with them as fascists, extremists, neo-N-azis, etc. 

I, for one, am very glad to see that RFK Jr. is open to working with people who represent a wide range of political views. The fact that he would speak at Hillsdale College says volumes about his tolerance and inclusion and willingness to work with people with whom he disagrees on a number of issues but with whom he agrees on issues that are important to him. That's true tolerance and inclusion, and open-mindedness.

[W. Niederhut]

48 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

We need to understand that fascism and communism are merely two sides of the same totalitarian coin. Both believe in total government power. Both believe the government has the right to own or seize any business or property that it desires, that the government should exercise total control over the news media, that the government should exercise total control over churches/religions, that the government should exercise total over control over education, etc.

The Koch brothers and the JBS have opposed these authoritarian ideas and have advocated the opposite view of government power and authority.

Once again we see a manifestation of the unfortunate fact that this forum is dominated by ultra-liberals who insist on describing anyone who disagrees with them as fascists, extremists, neo-N-azis, etc. 

I, for one, am very glad to see that RFK Jr. is open to working with people who represent a wide range of political views. The fact that he would speak at Hillsdale College says volumes about his tolerance and inclusion and willingness to work with people with whom he disagrees on a number of issues but with whom he agrees on issues that are important to him. That's true tolerance and inclusion, and open-mindedness.

Michael,

      I agree with your critique of totalitarianism, but the ideal alternative isn't a "misanthropic libertarian" Koch plutocracy.  

      Rather, it is progressive social democracy-- truly democratic societies in which the government properly regulates the depredations of corporate capitalism to protect the public welfare.

      What the Kochs want is a return to the plutocratic Gilded Age-- a "libertarian" society in which the wealthy are allowed to plunder and exploit the poor ad libidum.

      The Kochs have long aspired to abolish Medicare and the New Deal.

      Read Nancy MacLean's opus, Democracy in Chains.

[Douglas Caddy]

David Talbott speaks:

My Thoughts About RFK Jr. — Blog (thedavidtalbotshow.com)