Bart Kamp & Malcolm Blunt discuss Dallas

[Joseph Backes]

Peter,

Try reading some of John Newman's work.   Forums like this and people not doing the work make leaps and assumptions. They think there is a straight line between Angleton and LHO, or Solie and LHO, or Popov and LHO because they don't know any other names.  Most people commenting couldn't name 10 CIA people working in the Directorate of Plans at that time to save their lives.  

To everybody in the CIA Oswald "the mere radar operator," is perfectly expendable if he surfaces a mole.  That's the reason for his "defection," but there's no reason to believe LHO is 100% knowledgeable about it, or that he would be told everything. He went wittingly, probably thinking he's saving the U-2 program, or he's going to outsmart the KGB or something stupid like that.  There's no reason to believe LHO ever even heard of Angleton or Solie. 

[Tom Gram]

3 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Well, clearly we are in the territory of 'hypotheticaland' here.  However, I can't see Oswald having no idea who was behind his defection.  Simply because of his route through Finland.  I'm not saying CIA or ONI, but it does appear to me his journey into USSR was too clever for some ex-marine private, not to mention the financial aspect.  So I lean towards some kind of intelligence backing.  Who was it called him "a useful idiot?"  I can't recall off the top of my old head.

As for your 2nd paragraph, I more or less concur.  However, Popov had informed CIA that KGB had the full specifications of U2's technical data long before Oswald defected.  Would KGB be that interested in a mere radar operator?  They weren't as it turned out. To me, it fits Solie,  to keep Oswald files away from SR & convincing Angleton that the mole was hidden in that department. 

“‘Tis strange—but true; for truth is always strange,—stranger than fiction”  John Byrom

The source for the useful idiot quote is CIA officer William Kent’s daughter, who told Gaeton Fonzi that Kent said that at dinner one night. 

Malcolm Blunt has said that Kent was in New Orleans in the Summer of ‘63. Kent was officially stationed in Washington D.C. that Summer, but he was in New Orleans during the Garrison investigation under non-official cover with the “Christian Fellowship Fund”. 

The only source I could find placing Kent in New Orleans in ‘63 is the RockCOM testimony of William Sturbitts. However, Sturbitts does not say that explicitly, and the context of the interview suggests that he was actually talking about ‘67, IMO. Either way it’s a little suspicious, since there is no evidence, at least that I can find, that the RockCOM ever interviewed Kent. If you read Sturbitts’ testimony you’ll see what I mean. Here’s a thread I did on Kent at ROKC that contains the relevant snippet if anyone’s interested, plus a bunch of other interesting stuff: 

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2680-william-kent

I know this is a bit off topic (though it is sort-of about Blunt) but if anyone is aware of any evidence placing Kent in New Orleans at any time in ‘63 please let me know. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Tom Gram

[Gerry Down]

30 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

The source for the useful idiot quote is CIA officer William Kent’s daughter, who told Gaeton Fonzi that Kent said that at dinner one night. 

Malcolm Blunt has said that Kent was in New Orleans in the Summer of ‘63. Kent was officially stationed in Washington D.C. that Summer, but he was in New Orleans during the Garrison investigation under non-official cover with the “Christian Fellowship Fund”. 

The only source I could find placing Kent in New Orleans in ‘63 is the RockCOM testimony of William Sturbitts. However, Sturbitts does not say that explicitly, and the context of the interview suggests that he was actually talking about ‘67, IMO. Either way it’s a little suspicious, since there is no evidence, at least that I can find, that the RockCOM ever interviewed Kent. If you read Sturbitts’ testimony you’ll see what I mean. Here’s a thread I did on Kent at ROKC that contains the relevant snippet if anyone’s interested, plus a bunch of other interesting stuff: 

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2680-william-kent

I know this is a bit off topic (though it is sort-of about Blunt) but if anyone is aware of any evidence placing Kent in New Orleans at any time in ‘63 please let me know. 

Joannides was rumored to be in New Orleans too in the summer of 1963. Bit of a coincidence those two would be there together at the same time. I presume if Kent was there too, he'd be working there with Joannides as a team. With Kent the more senior guy to Joannides.

[David Boylan]

Kent was Joannides supervisor in 1963 so he would have had an interest in anything DRE. He and Crozier "founded" the DRE. After Joannides was reassigned, Kent took over as main contact for Salvat, et al.

[Tom Gram]

15 minutes ago, David Boylan said:

Kent was Joannides supervisor in 1963 so he would have had an interest in anything DRE. He and Crozier "founded" the DRE. After Joannides was reassigned, Kent took over as main contact for Salvat, et al.

Kent’s fitness report for 1963 is pretty interesting: 

So we have a black-propaganda/media expert, involved with the DRE, getting performance reviews like: 

in that time has demonstrated an unusual ability to provide imaginative, timely and useful propaganda guidances for covert field use. He is very sensitive and perceptive to the capabilities of and limitations of WHD media operations and exploits their possibilities to the maximum. He has been particularly effective in the exploitation of leads provided by KUTUBE (Foreign Intelligence + Staff D) sources as the basis for "black" operations. In this regard he has shown great initiative, imagination and professional ability. 

Plus we have sworn testimony that Kent would know whether or not any of Garrison’s suspects were involved in the clandestine CIA funding network for Cuban exiles through New Orleans: 

Q. ...it is possible that some of the same Cuban organizations which were being sponsored or funded by the Agency also had activities or operations in New Orleans?

A. I don't know if I can answer that, whether they had the same functions. I know that some funding arrangement for subsidizing the organizations in Miami was carried out through New Orleans. 

Q. Well, can you be more specific about what you mean by that?

A. Well, in other words, to fund these organizations we were subsidizing there had to be some ostensible source of income for them to continue what they were doing. A great number -- well, not a great number, but a number of select people were -- well, they were selected and then they were talked to, to pose as trustees, if you would, or directors or whatever you might have of some of these organizations in order to get the funding through to the organizations. These people were normally prominent people and --

(Sound like anyone we know? Perhaps the sole delegate of the DRE in New Orleans who spontaneously got made delegate of that organization after working on the propaganda committee of the CRC?)

Q. And did they get funded by the Agency, then, through the medium of prominent and well-to-do people?

A. These well-to-do people ostensibly would call a friend of theirs that had been made trustee of another type of activity and say, you know, we are trying to assist these Cubans in this type of thing. Could your organization give us any money, and the guy on the other end would say, sure, we can probably lend you $25,000 or something like that, or donate $25,000. This is the way the funding went into the fronts. 

Q. And was some of that funding arranged through people in New Orleans?

A. I would think so. I believe so. 

Q. Were any of the people in New Orleans through whom that funding operation was effected people who turned out to be in the investigation of Jim Garrison?

A. Not to my knowledge. 

Q. How about David Ferrie? Was he ever connected with the Agency in any manner at all in providing funds or assistance to Cubans or Cuban groups?

A. I couldn't say. I am just not familiar with -- we had a great many people that did this. 

Q. How about Clay Shaw? Was Clay Shaw ever used as a funding source?

A. This I do not know either.

Q. Pardon?

A. This I don't know. 

BY MR. MANFREDI: Q. Where would that information be available?

A. Well, we have a guy that used to work with me who was down in New Orleans at that time. He would probably know.

Q. Is he in the building?

A. Yes. 

Q. What is his name?

A. Bill Kent. 

I think this demonstrates that RockCOM obviously, unquestionably spoke to Kent as a follow-up, probably that same day. However, I haven’t seen a transcript or any other evidence suggesting that Kent was ever interviewed by that committee. 

The issue is that I still can’t find any evidence linking Kent to New Orleans in 1963. However, (from my ROKC thread): 

According to Malcolm Blunt, Kent's activities in 1963 are a bit of a mystery, and he's right. Kent's personnel file indicates that up until 6/5/63, his "official station" was Washington DC as part of the DDP/WH/2 Uruguay/Paraguay desk. This record states that Kent was reassigned to DDP/WH Plans and Operation Staff/Section B on June 5th, then 15 days later he was given a promotion by the Uruguay/Paraguay desk.

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=229858#relPageId=252

 

What's interesting here though is that the June 5th reassignment document was not signed off until August. This is the ONLY reassignment record in Kent's entire personnel file that was not signed off within two weeks of the "date prepared". 

[Paul Brancato]

On 5/6/2023 at 7:15 AM, Adam Johnson said:

It would be great if Bart could do a 15 minute to 30 minute video with Malcolm and simply ask just one question:

After your 30 years of personal research, getting hands on with 100s and 1000s of documents,  reports, photos and actual case evidence....what do you think happened on November 22nd 1963, whom can you pin point was involved and whom do you feel was behind the planning and cover up?

Thats it, one question 3 parts and let Malcolm talk, we can all just sit back and listen.  

Regards,

AJ

Ain’t that the truth? Maybe Bart reads here. He used to post. Is Blunt still with us? I’ve read Alan Dale’s book, and watched several of these videos. I’ve also seen many documents posted by others here coming from the Blunt archives. I didn’t know that Joseph Backes was part of the effort to organize Blunt’s files. Is that so for others here like Tom Gram and David Boylan? 
in lieu of having Malcolm Blunt answering the big question, perhaps others here know what his answer would be. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Paul Brancato

[Tom Gram]

22 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Ain’t that the truth? Maybe Bart reads here. He used to post. Is Blunt still with us? I’ve read Alan Dale’s book, and watched several of these videos. I’ve also seen many documents posted by others here coming from the Blunt archives. I didn’t know that Joseph Backes was part of the effort to organize Blunt’s files. Is that so for others here like Tom Gram and David Boylan? 
in lieu of having Malcolm Blunt answering the big question, perhaps others here know what his answer would be. 

I was not part of the effort to organize Blunt’s files. Like Joe said, Blunt’s archive still isn’t exactly organized like NARA, or even sorted by RIF - but Bart et. al. did a phenomenal job and there’s a ton of stuff in there that isn’t available anywhere else online. 

Blunt explained his research approach in one of his earlier interviews with Bart… I forget which one. The gist was that if he had gone through the files and copied stuff methodically by RIF at NARA, etc. (I think he actually said “like Joe Backes” haha) he wouldn’t have been able to review nearly as much material. 

[David Boylan]

What we know about Kent:

 

He formed the DRE as a branch of the DR. He placed Ross Crozier as case officer for DRE. While at JMWAVE, Kent ran his own Ops. He would report these to his supervisor David Phiilips. Phillips ran his own Ops out of HQs. Kent played dumb. "Doesn't remember that Crozier handled the DRE"  There's some bullshit for you.

 

AMSPELL - "specialized target" (implicit in the name of AMSPELL) Item 2

 

Salvat has met Oliver Corbuston/William Kent on one or two occasions and knows him as Douglas Gupton per Ross Crozier.

 

Kent was Joannides' supervisor after Crozier was replaced by Joannides. Kent was using the pseudo of Robert Trouchard at this time. His 1963 fitness report was signed by both Kent and Robert Moore as Fred Ingurst. Moore, as DCOS, worked closely with Kent and would often signoff for Shackley.

 

Kent was Chief of the PW branch. Joannides was Deputy Chief of the PW branch during 1963.

 

Joannides was promoted to Chief of the Covert Action branch in April 1964.Kieth Bongirno/Tony Sileo replaced Joannides as case officer. Bruce Vedder(William Kent) still meets with Salvat once or twice a month.

 

Kent as Ops Officer for JMATE/BOP. (Last name on this list)

 

Crozier, Patton and Kent running Ops into Cuba May 1961.Crozier also ran the FORD group. FORD is new from the 12/15 release.

 

Kent undercover in New Orleans in 1967. Keeping an eye on Garrison? New in the 12/15 release is that Kent was "working" for the Christian Fellowship Fund. 

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, David Boylan said:

What we know about Kent:

 

He formed the DRE as a branch of the DR. He placed Ross Crozier as case officer for DRE. While at JMWAVE, Kent ran his own Ops. He would report these to his supervisor David Phiilips. Phillips ran his own Ops out of HQs. Kent played dumb. "Doesn't remember that Crozier handled the DRE"  There's some bullshit for you.

 

AMSPELL - "specialized target" (implicit in the name of AMSPELL) Item 2

 

Salvat has met Oliver Corbuston/William Kent on one or two occasions and knows him as Douglas Gupton per Ross Crozier.

 

Kent was Joannides' supervisor after Crozier was replaced by Joannides. Kent was using the pseudo of Robert Trouchard at this time. His 1963 fitness report was signed by both Kent and Robert Moore as Fred Ingurst. Moore, as DCOS, worked closely with Kent and would often signoff for Shackley.

 

Kent was Chief of the PW branch. Joannides was Deputy Chief of the PW branch during 1963.

 

Joannides was promoted to Chief of the Covert Action branch in April 1964.Kieth Bongirno/Tony Sileo replaced Joannides as case officer. Bruce Vedder(William Kent) still meets with Salvat once or twice a month.

 

Kent as Ops Officer for JMATE/BOP. (Last name on this list)

 

Crozier, Patton and Kent running Ops into Cuba May 1961.Crozier also ran the FORD group. FORD is new from the 12/15 release.

 

Kent undercover in New Orleans in 1967. Keeping an eye on Garrison? New in the 12/15 release is that Kent was "working" for the Christian Fellowship Fund. 

Sorry to go so basic David.  But have I read Joannides was put in place by Richard Helms (???), to report directly to him?

[Pete Mellor]

13 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Again, hypothetically speaking ... let's assume Oswald did have "intelligence backing" for his trip to Russia. Are we then to assume that when Oswald marched into their office to renounce his citizenship, U.S. Embassy officials Richard Snyder and John McVickar were on the receiving end of an intelligence operation by their own government? Or were they in on the scheme from the beginning too? In my opinion, Oswald's behavior, despite whatever odd means by which he made it to the Soviet Union in the first place, shows no evidence of stemming from or being a part of an intelligence-backed operation.

I'm sure we are both aware that JFKA authors have intimated that Oswald's outbursts in the Moscow embassy were for the benefit of Soviet bugs in the building.  If so, that would also point towards 'intelligence backing'.

Anticipating your reply, If U.S. Intelligence KNEW their embassy in Moscow was bugged by KGB, surely they would have de-bugged the premises.

Who knows Jonathan?

 

 

[George Govus]

The Soviet and Cuban diplomatic posts in Mexico City were monitored and bugged. Both sides lived with the other side constantly (or continually) spying on them. Is my take.

Going from memory here. wasn't Oswald's visit to the U.S. embassy on a weekend? He was told that in order to renounce his citizenship, he had to come back during business hours. And didn't. That sure sounds like a ploy to me.

[Pete Mellor]

On 5/6/2023 at 3:15 PM, Adam Johnson said:

It would be great if Bart could do a 15 minute to 30 minute video with Malcolm and simply ask just one question:

After your 30 years of personal research, getting hands on with 100s and 1000s of documents,  reports, photos and actual case evidence....what do you think happened on November 22nd 1963, whom can you pin point was involved and whom do you feel was behind the planning and cover up?

Thats it, one question 3 parts and let Malcolm talk, we can all just sit back and listen.  

Regards,

AJ

Adam, taken some days to answer your question, but I have this comment from Bart Kamp:-

It is too open ended and loaded that question and I have tried this before and he will not step into that bear trap.

[Pete Mellor]

Malcolm Blunt's Archive on William Kent, credit to Zack Robertson.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yV4rcfBdGI0zjiYzlx8tWLL7ZmO6zuH6/view

Edited May 11, 2023 by Pete Mellor
add info

[Paul Brancato]

3 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Adam, taken some days to answer your question, but I have this comment from Bart Kamp:-

It is too open ended and loaded that question and I have tried this before and he will not step into that bear trap.

There you go. It was Adam’s question, which I only reinforced. But after all this time you’d think it was possible that Blunt would have an opinion. How is it a bear trap? Honestly, and I’m sure most of you will find this comment objectionable, I find the interviews with Blunt boring and not at all revelatory. 

[Mark Ulrik]

Have to confess that I know next to nothing about Blunt and his relationship with the ARRB and/or NARA. Is there a bio floating around somewhere? Just interested in the Reader's Digest version. How many other researchers had the level of access that he seems to have had? I assume he had proximity and time on his side, but perhaps academic credentials also helped?