Bang up job, folks...

[Cory Santos]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Yes, devolution.

Here we have a rare opportunity to discuss the impact of 60 years of CIA-funded disinformation in the U.S. mainstream media promoting the WCR, yet 90% of the thread ends up focusing on more of the endless, redundant forum minutiae about ballistics, autopsy evidence, etc. 

Geez... Don't we all know by now that JFK was murdered by a head shot from the Grassy Knoll area?

The only guys who still dispute that are Fred Litwin and the professional WCR ad men.

Yet, people keep whipping that dead horse.

 

What else have they promoted in your mind, or, was it just the Warren Report?

[Cliff Varnell]

7 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Yes, devolution.

Here we have a rare opportunity to discuss the impact of 60 years of CIA-funded disinformation in the U.S. mainstream media promoting the WCR, yet 90% of the thread ends up focusing on more of the endless, redundant forum minutiae about ballistics, autopsy evidence, etc. 

As I’ve argued, the CIA disinformation campaign was in high gear in the 90’s when polls show support of the Lone Nut scenario at its lowest.  There was a 20% drop in support for the conspiracy position between 2001 and 2017, with an even greater drop among the college educated.  This cannot be attributed to “CIA-funded disinformation” in the mainstream media, of which there was far less than the 90’s.

Your take on 21st Century CIA disinformation in the MSM is over-stated.

7 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Geez... Don't we all know by now that JFK was murdered by a head shot from the Grassy Knoll area?

Care to show where that event implicated persons of interest?

The night of the autopsy the prosectors observed shallow wounds in soft tissue and voiced speculation implicating the CIA operation MKNAOMI.

Point out where this has been over-discussed, Will.  Name the JFK Conference where it’s been discussed at all, or the books that have covered the subject.  Or in six hours of Oliver Stone documentary.

7 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

The only guys who still dispute that are Fred Litwin and the professional WCR ad men.

The view that JFK was hit with a high tech weapon is attacked far more than supported on this forum. 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Cliff Varnell

[W. Niederhut]

40 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

What else have they promoted in your mind, or, was it just the Warren Report?

Huh?  In my mind?  Don't kid yourself, Cory.

You need to do some remedial reading about the systematically suppressed scientific and forensic 9/11 evidence.

How many news stories have you ever read in the U.S. mainstream media about the pre-planned explosive demolition of WTC7 on 9/11?

How about the visible serial explosions that pulverized the concrete of the Twin Towers (and more than 1,000 human bodies) into pyrocastic ash flumes over Manhattan on 9/11?  Any stories in the NYT about that minor 21st century incident?

How many M$M reports have you read about the fact that five "dancing" Mossad agents were arrested near Giants Stadium on 9/11, and incarcerated for 70 days by the FBI, after witnesses saw them filming and celebrating the explosive demolitions of the Twin Towers?

Explain the absence of any mainstream U.S. media coverage of these highly significant, established scientific and forensic facts during the past 22 years.

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

As I’ve argued, the CIA disinformation campaign was in high gear in the 90’s when polls show support of the Lone Nut scenario at its lowest.  There was a 20% drop in support for the conspiracy position between 2001 and 2017, with an even greater drop among the college educated.  This cannot be attributed to “CIA-funded disinformation” in the mainstream media, of which there was far less than the 90’s.

Your take on 21st Century CIA disinformation in the MSM is over-stated.

I agree with Cliff on this W. You are the foremost proponent of Operation Mockingbird  currently being an active force dissuading people from belief in in a JKA conspiracy and mention it the most frequently here. I don't think that's the cause at all.  I'd go even further

 

W. How many college grads in the U.S. understand the pervasive, powerful influence of CIA propaganda in the mainstream media -- including prestigious newspapers like NYT and WaPo-- since the 1940s? 

 

Do you mean college graduates now? We shouldn't be surprised that younger people are more concerned about their current  lives now than some major incident 60 years ago. I think that's the reason that there's waning interest , though I'd like to see those polls extended to right now in 2023.. I don't think these influences you keep mentioning NYT, Wapo are really near the shaping force they once were due to the advent of social media. 

 

I know this sounds like heresy, and I'm not saying it's not happening but let's be thorough.  Give me some concrete examples of how the CIA has influenced their thinking about the JFKA this century.

 

Even if you can't cite one concrete example. Do you really think there's any danger that these students are unaware? I bet if they also couldn't recite any concrete examples of CIA influence in their lives in general, there would still be few who might  give you stupid, outrageous examples of CIA influence that they got from social media.

 

The student teaching the teacher?

 

heh heh  a joke.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Kirk Gallaway

[Cliff Varnell]

delete

 

Edited April 12 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

Two wounds of entrance in soft tissue , no exits, no rounds found in the autopsy.

There is a “high strangeness” aspect to these root facts of the JFKA.  The whole “ice bullet” issue is off-putting to people of a certain age.

In my experience younger people take the high tech scenario more seriously.

[W. Niederhut]

11 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I agree with Cliff on this W. You are the foremost proponent of Operation Mockingbird  currently being an active force dissuading people from belief in in a JKA conspiracy and mention it the most frequently here. I don't think that's the cause at all.  I'd go even further

 

W. How many college grads in the U.S. understand the pervasive, powerful influence of CIA propaganda in the mainstream media -- including prestigious newspapers like NYT and WaPo-- since the 1940s? 

 

Do you mean college graduates now? We shouldn't be surprised that younger people are more concerned about their current  lives now than some major incident 60 years ago. I think that's the reason that there's waning interest , though I'd like to see those polls extended to right now in 2023.. I don't think these influences you keep mentioning NYT, Wapo are really near the shaping force they once were due to the advent of social media. 

 

I know this sounds like heresy, and I'm not saying it's not happening but let's be thorough.  Give me some concrete examples of how the CIA has influenced their thinking about the JFKA this century.

 

Kirk,

     Surely, you jest.

     Did you study the U.S. mainstream media "coverage" of JFK Revisited after it premiered at Cannes?

     I started a thread here that summer on the subject, in which I theorized that M$M coverage of JFK Revisited would provide an opportunity to discern whether Operation Mockingbird was still operational in the U.S.

      The answer was a resounding, yes!  Coverage of JFK Revisited was widely blacked out in the most prominent mainstream U.S. news sources, including the New York Times.  When the Washington Post did mention JFK Revisited, the ersatz review (by a historian from LSU named Alecia P. Long) was ridiculous.

      Kirk, are you aware that the CIA issued an Executive Order in 1964 ordering all agency personnel to do whatever was necessary to promote public acceptance of the Warren Commission Report?

      Are you familiar with the distorted M$M coverage of the JFK assassination since 11/22/63-- including the promotion of the Lone Nut/WCR narrative and the M$M defamation of Jim Garrison?

      The guy who wrote the book on that historical subject is Joseph McBride.

[Joe Bauer]

13 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Kirk, are you aware that the CIA issued an Executive Order in 1964 ordering all agency personnel to do whatever was necessary to promote public acceptance of the Warren Commission Report?

      Are you familiar with the distorted M$M coverage of the JFK assassination since 11/22/63-- including the promotion of the Lone Nut/WCR narrative and the M$M defamation of Jim Garrison?

      The guy who wrote the book on that historical subject is Joseph McBride.

Bump.

[Joe Bauer]

In todays real world, most Americans under the age of 50 are forced to think about one main subject over all others by a huge degree...

Work, pay, bills, keeping up with the cost of basic needs living.

For them and/or their young adult children.

It consumes and exhausts them 24/7 ... and it's been this way for years and years.

The JFKA?

That part of our history isn't taught in our primary school curriculum at all and hasn't been for decades.

Reading, math, science. That's it!

Half our society is made up of people just continually struggling day to day to meet their basic needs.

Keep them struggling and you keep them from the mental thought freedom to question or even think about anything nefarious that may be happening in the highest levels of government power.

If Oliver Stone's film "JFK" were shown to every high school junior year civics, history or social study class students in the American public school system you would see a spike in poll numbers reflecting a belief in a JFKA conspiracy.

Those class subjects however have been removed from most public school curriculums for quite awhile now.

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[W. Niederhut]

21 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Bump.

Joe,

     As an addendum, I should have asked Kirk if he is familiar with William Colby's Church Committee testimony about CIA Operation Mockingbird, and Carl Bernstein's famous Rolling Stone essay on the subject.

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Kirk,

     Surely, you jest.

     Did you study the U.S. mainstream media "coverage" of JFK Revisited after it premiered at Cannes?

     I started a thread here that summer on the subject, in which I theorized that M$M coverage of JFK Revisited would provide an opportunity to discern whether Operation Mockingbird was still operational in the U.S.

      The answer was a resounding, yes!  Coverage of JFK Revisited was widely blacked out in the most prominent mainstream U.S. news sources, including the New York Times.  When the Washington Post did mention JFK Revisited, the ersatz review (by a historian from LSU named Alecia P. Long) was ridiculous.

      Kirk, are you aware that the CIA issued an Executive Order in 1964 ordering all agency personnel to do whatever was necessary to promote public acceptance of the Warren Commission Report?

      Are you familiar with the distorted M$M coverage of the JFK assassination since 11/22/63-- including the promotion of the Lone Nut/WCR narrative and the M$M defamation of Jim Garrison?

      The guy who wrote the book on that historical subject is Joseph McBride.

One man	Others involved	No opinion
2001 Mar 26-28		13	81	6
1993 Nov 15-16		15	75	10
1992 Feb ^		10	77	13
1983 Oct ^		11	74	15
1976 Dec †		11	81

This is Gallup during the heyday of Op Mock — 13% buy the Lone Nut scenario as of 2001.  There was scant change between Dec ‘76 and March ‘01.

By 2017, 33% buy the Lone Nut myth even though Op Mock in the MSM was largely muted over that time, and the Internet usurped traditional media as the main source of news consumption.

So are we to conclude that a lack of JFKA coverage in the MSM stimulates the Lone Nut narrative?

Looks like the CIA wasted a lot of time and effort promoting the WC, doesn’t it?

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Cliff Varnell

[Kirk Gallaway]

11 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Give me some concrete examples of how the CIA has influenced their thinking about the JFKA this century.

You're being sloppy. Are you saying that all bad MSM coverage is result of Operation Mockingbird?

So in your mind CIA and MSM are synoymous?

Let's take one of the most egregious examples of terrible MSM coverage actually affecting an election.

Tell me W.  Was the MSM coverage of Hillary's emails and throughout the 2016 election and Comey''s trashing of Hilary with Anthony Weiner's laptop in the last week before the election an example of Operation Mockingbird  and the" Deep State" wanting Trump to win?

28 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Kirk, are you aware that the CIA issued an Executive Order in 1964 ordering all agency personnel to do whatever was necessary to promote public acceptance of the Warren Commission Report?

W. I said "this century."

So you have to go back 60 years? You're illustrating my point. Nobody here on a JFKA forum would contest that there was a CIA coverup in the 60's and decades after.

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

16 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Joe,

     As an addendum, I should have asked Kirk if he is familiar with William Colby's Church Committee testimony about CIA Operation Mockingbird, and Carl Bernstein's famous Rolling Stone essay on the subject.

I'm not sure but if it was televised, I actually saw it live! Actually  I remember it well back in 1977. I didn't have to read it later in some book. 

See, you're back in 1977!  Nobody doubts that there was a  "Operation Mockingbird", just as no one denies there was a CIA coverup of the JFKA.:  The question I'm asking you for the last time now..

Kirk: Give me some concrete examples of how the CIA has influenced their thinking about the JFKA this century.

[Kirk Gallaway]

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

One man	Others involved	No opinion
2001 Mar 26-28		13	81	6
1993 Nov 15-16		15	75	10
1992 Feb ^		10	77	13
1983 Oct ^		11	74	15
1976 Dec †		11	81

This is Gallup during the heyday of Op Mock — 13% buy the Lone Nut scenario as of 2001.  There was scant change between Dec ‘76 and March ‘01.

By 2017, 33% buy the Lone Nut myth even though Op Mock in the MSM was largely muted over that time, and the Internet usurped traditional media as the main source of news consumption.

So are we to conclude that a lack of JFKA coverage in the MSM stimulates the Lone Nut narrative?

Looks like the CIA wasted a lot of time and effort promoting the WC, doesn’t it?

 

Cliff, It would be interesting  to see those polls up brought current to 2023.  I'd be curious to see if.

 

1) Would the number of those who believed in a JFK conspiracy  be bumped up with  the new rash of alternative/ social media conspiracy stuff and the MAGA movement? 2. Would "JFK Revisited" have give it a bump? 

 

Or would some of the general conspiracy craziness have the effect of a backlash against the idea of a JFK conspiracy, at least  among college graduates? 

 

[W. Niederhut]

Cliff & Kirk,

     I disagree with the premise that GHWB and the CIA actually terminated Operation Mockingbird (in practice, not name) after the Church Committee hearings in the 70s.

    How many stories in the U.S. mainstream media covered CIA Operation Timber Sycamore-- launched in Syria in 2014?

    How many M$M stories covered the history of the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Necon Project for a New American Century?

    Before his untimely death, German journalist, Udo Ulfkotte, published a bestselling 2014 expose on the subject of CIA Operation Mockingbird, (in Europe) called Gekaufte Journalisten, which I have mentioned in a post or two on the subject here.  The English translation of Ulfkotte's book was first published in paperback in 2019, as Presstitutes.

     Ulfkotte's description of the CIA's pervasive 21st century activity in the mass media directly mirrored the earlier William Colby/Carl Bernstein descriptions of CIA influence in the U.S. media-- controlling narratives and suppressing accurate coverage of military and intelligence ops.

Presstitutes Embedded in the Pay of the CIA: A Confession from the Profession: Ulfkotte, Dr. Udo, Schlademan, Andrew, Leonard, John-Paul: 9781615770175: Amazon.com: Books

     The best example of Operation Mockingbird in the 21st century, IMO, has been the pervasive mainstream media cover up of PNAC's "New Pearl Harbor" 9/11 op-- the so-called Great American Psy-Opera.

     But the M$M has also continued, to a lesser extent, to suppress honest coverage of the debunking of the Warren Commission Report.  The limited M$M coverage of Oliver Stone's landmark documentary, JFK Revisited, is the most obvious example.

Edited September 24, 2023 by W. Niederhut