Billy Lovelady is NOT leaning over (much) in Altgens 6.

[Sandy Larsen]

35 minutes ago, Sean Coleman said:

At least this guy has a pocket 

 

Yep.

When we discussed it years ago, we thought it looked like there was a button that could be used to keep it closed.

 

[Jean Ceulemans]

2 hours ago, Sean Coleman said:

At least this guy has a pocket 

I'm giving up on this, if it's not him I don't no who it is or should be.

In a strange way The White Stripes' The Hardest Button to Button,  seems appropriate now

(to those that don't know, it's about a kid trying to find his place in a totally disfunctional family....).

 

[Paul Bacon]

23 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

You want to know where Plaid Shirt Man (the guy you think is Lovelady) was while the real Lovelady was standing on the TSBD steps?

I'll show you where:    (drum roll please....)

 

 

That's right folks.... Plaid Shirt Man  was across the street from Billy Lovelady when the motorcade passed.

 

Boy Sandy, you pulled that right out of your hat!!  Very interesting....

[Sandy Larsen]

10 hours ago, Paul Bacon said:

On 10/20/2023 at 5:24 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

That's right folks.... Plaid Shirt Man  was across the street from Billy Lovelady when the motorcade passed.

Boy Sandy, you pulled that right out of your hat!!  Very interesting....

 

Thank you Paul for your encouraging comment. I was growing weary from all the negative comments written by people who don't even know what I'm trying to prove or why.

As I said, I've been studying this for a long time. (On and off.) There's a good reason for studying it, which I will explain later in a new, dedicated thread.

 

[Andrej Stancak]

So, Sandy, would you please draw the contours of Carl Jones' arm extended onto Lovelady's figure in Altgens6? So far, you only drew an broad ellipse and let other people guessing where the Jones's arm really was.

I understand that you cannot determine the contours of Jones's arm in Altgens6, and that you cannot say if the shirt seen on Lovelady in Martin and in the DPD photograph and the one in Altgens6 were different. 

In my view, you have no case, and all you have is that Lovelady presented a different shirt to Groden compared to the shirt he wore in that fateful Friday. That does not warrant your claim that Lovelady's shirt has been altered in Altgens6.

 

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Andrej Stancak said:

So, Sandy, would you please draw the contours of Carl Jones' arm extended onto Lovelady's figure in Altgens6? So far, you only drew an broad ellipse and let other people guessing where the Jones's arm really was.

 

I also posted a copy with Carl Jones's arm shaded in brown. I guess you missed that one.

But here is one just for you. See Carl Jones's arm-outline marked in white:

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

I understand that you cannot determine the contours of Jones's arm in Altgens6, and that you cannot say if the shirt seen on Lovelady in Martin and in the DPD photograph and the one in Altgens6 were different. 

 

(I don't know what you mean by contours. Anyways...)

I have no reason to believe the shirt seen in Martin is any different than the one seen in the DPD film. But I'm quite sure that Lovelady wasn't wearing that shirt. The guy wearing that shirt was watching the motorcade from the other side of Elm Street. As I have shown.

 

2 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

In my view, you have no case, and all you have is that Lovelady presented a different shirt to Groden compared to the shirt he wore in that fateful Friday.

 

I'm glad you're not disputing that.

I will show later why it is that Lovelady had a nearly identical shirt to present to Groden.

 

2 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

That does not warrant your claim that Lovelady's shirt has been altered in Altgens6.

 

My claim is that the plaid-like square pattern we see in lower-quality copies of Altgens 6 is an artifact of scanning and related digital processes. Aliasing, for example. I got this idea from you.

 

[Paul Bacon]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I also posted a copy with Carl Jones's arm shaded in brown. I guess you missed that one.

But here is one just for you. See Carl Jones's arm-outline marked in white:

 

 

Sandy, now that I've seen your outline of Carl Jones' arm and hand, I understand why you say Lovelady is not leaning over much, for what it's worth.

Now, if I could just get past the optical illusion that makes it look like the guy in the tie is overlapping Lovelady's left shoulder...

[Sandy Larsen]

9 minutes ago, Paul Bacon said:

Now, if I could just get past the optical illusion that makes it look like the guy in the tie is overlapping Lovelady's left shoulder...

 

That makes two of us, Paul. I mean, where is Lovelady's left shoulder? Merely leaning (to his left) wouldn't make his shoulder disappear.

After putting a lot of thought into this, I think the answer might be as follows: First, he is standing at a rotated angle, with his right side closer to the road and left side away from the road. In addition to that, he is leaning to his left. (Though we can't see his arm because it is hidden behind Carl Jones's arm and hand.) Now, add to that the fact that his shirt is opened very wide, which gives an illusion of what we see of his left shoulder being thin.

Or something like that.

Now I wish I had named the thread differently. It was really Carl Jones's arm and hand that was important to me, not how far Lovelady was leaning.

 

[Sean Coleman]

If these two pics were taken at the same time - as possibly indicated by Maddie & Otis’s raised arms- it appears Carl had his arm down and  Lovelady ‘appears’ to be stood as to be covering his crotch with his left hand? 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Sean Coleman

[Sandy Larsen]

47 minutes ago, Sean Coleman said:

If these two pics were taken at the same time - as possibly indicated by Maddie & Otis’s raised arms- it appears Carl had his arm down and  Lovelady ‘appears’ to be stood as to be covering his crotch with his left hand? 

 

Sean,

We know that the two photos were taken at different times because in the top photo Carl is standing with his back toward the west end of the entryway, whereas in the bottom photo he is standing with his back toward the glass doors.

BTW, how can you see that Lovelady is covering his crotch with his left hand, given that his left arm and hand are blocked from view by persons B & C?

 

[Sean Coleman]

Carl Jones got pale sleeves tho?

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Sean Coleman

[Chris Davidson]

4 hours ago, Paul Bacon said:

Now, if I could just get past the optical illusion that makes it look like the guy in the tie is overlapping Lovelady's left shoulder...

Complete chin/jaw line should appear. 

Different ways of looking at the arm orientation.

Which one matches more closely with what is seen in Bell?

Credit to Jean Ceulemans (I believe), for the post activity TSBD photo.

 

[Chris Davidson]

2 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

Complete chin/jaw line should appear. 

 

 

I would expect something closer to this with no overlap:

[Sandy Larsen]

32 minutes ago, Sean Coleman said:

Carl Jones got pale sleeves tho?

 

Right, we talked about that already. Carl also had a habit of pushing his sleeves back. I've seen two photos of him with his sleeves pushed back. I now wish I would have at least bookmarked the first, better one I saw. I can't find it now.