Re Paul Landis? 11/22/63 FBI Memo Confirms?

[Benjamin Cole]

Really? A Secret Service agent had searched the Presidential limo and "found the bullet which allegedly killed the President."? 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[Joe Bauer]

Is this memo for real?

If so, isn't this a probable "smoking gun" bomb shell piece of documentation evidence?

The FBI knew about Landis ( or at least some other SS agent ) and his bullet discovery from the limo...the very day of the assassination?

Edited December 5, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[K K Lane]

Great find.  Thanks.

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Is this memo for real?

If so, isn't this a probable "smoking gun" bomb shell piece of documentation evidence?

The FBI knew about Landis ( or at least some other SS agent ) and his bullet discovery from the limo...the very day of the assassination?

The memo is on Mary Ferrell; I assume it is real. 

Go here and scroll down one page:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62266#relPageId=143&search=Rifle

As you probably know, Clint Hill has hinted around about a slug being found in the limo. 

Now Landis says it out loud. 

The bullet was noted in an official FBI memo Nov. 22.

It sure looks like a Secret Service agent did in fact find a slug in the limo on Nov. 22. 

 

 

 

[Gerry Down]

It's a good find but the problem is that this memo may simply be a reference to the finding of the nose and/or tail cone of the bullet found in the front seat - the shot that struck JFK in the head. 

[Joe Bauer]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

The memo is on Mary Ferrell; I assume it is real. 

Go here and scroll down one page:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62266#relPageId=143&search=Rifle

As you probably know, Clint Hill has hinted around about a slug being found in the limo. 

Now Landis says it out loud. 

The bullet was noted in an official FBI memo Nov. 22.

It sure looks like a Secret Service agent did in fact find a slug in the limo on Nov. 22. 

 

 

 

Mind blowing!

[Joe Bauer]

1 minute ago, Gerry Down said:

It's a good find but the problem is that this memo may simply be a reference to the finding of the nose and/or tail cone of the bullet found in the front seat - the shot that struck JFK in the head. 

And where are those two bullet fragments?

Were they documented and put into the official evidentiary record?

 

[Tony Krome]

This nurse apparently saw the same SS placed bullet that Shanklin refers to;

Video starts at correct time. 

 

[Gerry Down]

23 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

And where are those two bullet fragments?

Were they documented and put into the official evidentiary record?

 

Here's one of them

Link: https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2019/12/kennedy-assassination-bullets-preserved-digital-form

[Benjamin Cole]

33 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

It's a good find but the problem is that this memo may simply be a reference to the finding of the nose and/or tail cone of the bullet found in the front seat - the shot that struck JFK in the head. 

GD-

Sure, it may be. 

My view on the JFKA is since little is entirely beyond reasonable doubt (and even that is a matter of individual preference), one must look for the "preponderance of evidence." 

This 11/22 FBI memo does not say "fragments," it says "the bullet." 

Landis claims he found a whole bullet slug. 

Clint Hill told a neighbor a complete "bullet" was found in the limo. 

CE 399 is an entire, nearly pristine WCC 6.5 slug. Such a slug is extremely unlikely, if it had truly ripped out five inches of Gov. Connally's rib and then smashed his wrist. 

No, I cannot prove Landis found a whole slug, CE 399 in the limo. One might entertain reasonable doubts that he did. 

If I had to bet, it would be that a Secret Service agent indeed found a whole slug in the limo on 11/22. 

Police brotherhoods are very strong. No one ever "finks" on a fellow officer, rightly or wrongly. 

If a Secret Service agent made a mistake in the handling of CE 399, no one is going to squeal on him. 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[Pat Speer]

17 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Really? A Secret Service agent had searched the Presidential limo and "found the bullet which allegedly killed the President."? 

Unfortunately, Landis claims he didn't tell anyone about his find, and the FBI would probably be the last to know if he did. The early Shanklin and Belmont memos contain a lot of second-hand stuff that are essentially bad gossip. This appears to be one such memo. It should be noted, in that light, that Shanklin's claim Sorrels had possession of the rifle also appears to be nonsense. The official story, of course, has it in the DPD's possession until they transferred it to Vince Drain of the FBI. 

P.S. I initially wrote that Sorrels walked with Day to his car, but I was mistaken--that was FBI man Bardwell Odum. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Pat Speer

[David Von Pein]

45 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Unfortunately, Landis claims he didn't tell anyone about his find, and the FBI would probably be the last to know if he did. The early Shanklin and Belmont memos contain a lot of second-hand stuff that are essentially bad gossip. This appears to be one such memo. It should be noted, in that light, that Shanklin's claim Sorrels had possession of the rifle also appears to be nonsense. The official story, of course, has it in the DPD's possession until they transferred it to Vince Drain of the FBI. Shankin's confusion about this probably comes from the fact that Sorrels walked with Day when Day left the building with the rifle. Apparently, someone thought Sorrels was taking possession of it, when he did not. 

In addition to the relevant and on-target points brought up by Pat Speer in his post above, let me add this....

The FBI report in question is dated "November 22, 1963" (at the top). If it had been dated November 23 or November 24, it would be a lot easier to make the claim that the report was talking about the two large bullet fragments that were recovered by the Secret Service from the front seat of the Presidential limo late on the night of Nov. 22 (with those fragments then being turned over to Robert Frazier of the FBI at 11:50 PM EST on Nov. 22; see Frazier's testimony at 5 H 67 for confirmation of the "11:50 PM" timestamp).

But since the FBI report which has the following information in it was dated Nov. 22nd, it's somewhat difficult to believe (but not totally impossible to accept) that these words below could be referring to the front-seat fragments, which are bullet fragments that weren't even found until close to midnight on the night of the 22nd....

"Shanklin subsequently advised information had been received that a Secret Service Agent had searched the car in which the President was riding and had found the bullet which allegedly killed the President."

And so....the mystery deepens.

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Tony Krome]

47 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

This appears to be one such memo. It should be noted, in that light, that Shanklin's claim Sorrels had possession of the rifle also appears to be nonsense. The official story, of course, has it in the DPD's possession until they transferred it to Vince Drain of the FBI. Shankin's confusion about this probably comes from the fact that Sorrels walked with Day when Day left the building with the rifle. Apparently, someone thought Sorrels was taking possession of it, when he did not. 

Officially, the CARCANO was not in the possession of Sorells. Got it, thanks. 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Unfortunately, Landis claims he didn't tell anyone about his find, and the FBI would probably be the last to know if he did. The early Shanklin and Belmont memos contain a lot of second-hand stuff that are essentially bad gossip. This appears to be one such memo. It should be noted, in that light, that Shanklin's claim Sorrels had possession of the rifle also appears to be nonsense. The official story, of course, has it in the DPD's possession until they transferred it to Vince Drain of the FBI. Shankin's confusion about this probably comes from the fact that Sorrels walked with Day when Day left the building with the rifle. Apparently, someone thought Sorrels was taking possession of it, when he did not. 

PS-

Yes, there was scuttlebutt early on. And demonstrably false information is found in official memos early on. 

On the other hand, this is an earnest same-day FBI memo, before an official story line was settled upon. 

Someone may have observed Landis 11/22, and then told an FBI'er off the record. 

Maybe Landis in fact told another agent about his miscue, but now is protecting that SS agent's identity as that agent was also, somewhat, derelict in duties. 

I concede this memo does not present evidence beyond reasonable doubt. 

But...after the Landis statement, the 11/22 FBI memo sure is interesting. Getting into the "preponderance of evidence" zone. 

 

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

6 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Here's one of them

Link: https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2019/12/kennedy-assassination-bullets-preserved-digital-form

WOW!