Vickie Adams Interview

[Gerry Down]

36 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Styles was featured on an episode of America Declassified: JFK Exclusive Access, in 2013. This was broadcast on the Travel Channel. In this episode, she basically served as a stand-in for Adams, i.e. she was there to raise doubts about Oswald's running down the stairs. She wouldn't have done that, IMO, if she was convinced Adams was wrong about the timing of their race down the stairs. 

Possible careful editing though by the programs producers?

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

I don't recall her ever giving an estimate for how long she stayed at the window. 

Mr. BELIN -- How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?

Miss ADAMS -- Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately.

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http://DVP's JFK Archives / Victoria Adams & Sandra Styles

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Edited January 9 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Gerry Down said:

Possible careful editing though by the programs producers?

She was very much alive at the time.  I don't actually know. Is she still with us? In any event, it would have been quite easy for her to put out the word that she thought her words had been misrepresented, if she thought they had been misrepresented. When Max Holland put together that awful program suggesting the first shot was fired before Zapruder started filming, and hit the traffic light, Tina Towner and James Tague both let it be known they thought the premise of the show was horse-poop. If Styles had thought she came downstairs much later than presumed, it seems clear she would have said as much. As it is, she refused to be tied down, and said for all she knew Oswald raced down before her, or raced down after. IOW, she didn't have a clear recollection...50 years after the fact. 

Edited January 9 by Pat Speer

[Roger Odisio]

4 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

She was very much alive at the time.  I don't actually know. Is she still with us? In any event, it would have been quite easy for her to put out the word that she thought her words had been misrepresented, if she thought they had been misrepresented. When Max Holland put together that awful program suggesting the first shot was fired before Zapruder started filming, and hit the traffic light, Tina Towner and James Tague both let it be known they thought the premise of the show was horse-poop. If Styles had thought she came downstairs much later than presumed, it seems clear she would have said as much. As it is, she refused to be tied down, and said for all she knew Oswald raced down before her, or raced down after. IOW, she didn't have a clear recollection...50 years after the fact. 

That's in addition to the fact that at the time of the murder, when her memory was clear, and she was being interviewed by the cops and WC staff, had Styles indicated that she differed with Adams to the extent of making their Oswald story possible, she would have been formally interviewed (rather than ignored), and we would have read about it in the WR.  Instead they had to rely on lying about the whereabout of Shelley and Lovelady to discredit Adams. Perhaps Adams might even have been ignored in that case.

That's the clearest evidence that she didn't contradict Adams at the time of the murder. 

[Pat Speer]

23 minutes ago, Roger Odisio said:

That's in addition to the fact that at the time of the murder, when her memory was clear, and she was being interviewed by the cops and WC staff, had Styles indicated that she differed with Adams to the extent of making their Oswald story possible, she would have been formally interviewed (rather than ignored), and we would have read about it in the WR.  Instead they had to rely on lying about the whereabout of Shelley and Lovelady to discredit Adams. Perhaps Adams might even have been ignored in that case.

That's the clearest evidence that she didn't contradict Adams at the time of the murder. 

I agree. Well after Adams, Lovelady, and Shelley had testified, Ball wrote a memo saying they needed to call Eddie Piper back and ask if he saw Adams come down the stairs. He was clearly looking for more ways to discredit her. IF he thought Styles might do the trick, he would most certainly have called her. But he didn't. Which should lead us to believe he KNEW she wouldn't undermine Adams. 

And this raises a question... Did Ball or Belin call her or have the DPD call her, and ask her some questions, and then fail to take her testimony, because of how she answered these questions? 

P.S. I just noticed that Styles told Murphy in 2008 that she met with a WC representative briefly in her office, and was confused as to why they didn't call her as a witness. I think we know the answer. 

Edited January 9 by Pat Speer

[Gerry Down]

9 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

I agree. Well after Adams, Lovelady, and Shelley had testified, Ball wrote a memo saying they needed to call Eddie Piper back and ask if he saw Adams come down the stairs. He was clearly looking for more ways to discredit her. IF he thought Styles might do the trick, he would most certainly have called her. But he didn't. Which should lead us to believe he KNEW she wouldn't undermine Adams. 

And this raises a question... Did Ball or Belin call her or have the DPD call her, and ask her some questions, and then fail to take her testimony, because of how she answered these questions? 

P.S. I just noticed that Styles told Murphy in 2008 that she met with a WC representative briefly in her office, and was confused as to why they didn't call her as a witness. I think we know the answer. 

Maybe she omitted the visit to the passenger elevator in what she told him as she didn't see the relevance in it. The questioner didn't know about it and she didn't volunteer it. And the WC staffer freaked out.

Often WC witnesses give details in their testimony which is clear the questioner was unprepared for and didn't know about. The visit to the passenger elevator could be just yet another example of this.

[Gerry Down]

Let's think about this logically.

Where did Adams and Styles run to?

The front of the tsbd.

They had no interest in what was going on in the railroad yard to the west if the tsbd. They ran straight past there to get to the front of the tsbd.

From that 4th floor window what is the most direct route to get to the front of the tsbd?

The passenger elevator.

[Sandy Larsen]

4 hours ago, Roger Odisio said:

One small point.  All of this does not prove that the 2nd floor encounter never happened.  It proves it didn't happen *as the WC claimed*.

 

Yes, you are right. It shows that an encounter -- if there was one -- didn't happen shortly (within 90 seconds?) after the shooting.

 

4 hours ago, Roger Odisio said:

It leaves open the possibility, as Andrej and Greg have discussed, that Oswald ran into Truly and Baker after going *up* the steps on his way out of the building.

 

Can you explain this in a little more detail? It sounds like you're saying that Oswald could have gone up some steps to leave the building.

Do you mean, he could have gone up the steps, met Truly and Baker on the second floor, and then gone back down and exited the building?

 

4 hours ago, Roger Odisio said:

My best guess is that the encounter was wholly fabricated as a way to situate Oswald in the building at the time, since they had no one who could directly place Oswald on the 6th floor.

 

[Roger Odisio]

42 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

I agree. Well after Adams, Lovelady, and Shelley had testified, Ball wrote a memo saying they needed to call Eddie Piper back and ask if he saw Adams come down the stairs. He was clearly looking for more ways to discredit her. IF he thought Styles might do the trick, he would most certainly have called her. But he didn't. Which should lead us to believe he KNEW she wouldn't undermine Adams. 

And this raises a question... Did Ball or Belin call her or have the DPD call her, and ask her some questions, and then fail to take her testimony, because of how she answered these questions? 

P.S. I just noticed that Styles told Murphy in 2008 that she met with a WC representative briefly in her office, and was confused as to why they didn't call her as a witness. I think we know the answer. 

Adams told Ernest she was interviewed multiple times by the FBI, local cops, and WC staff.  Early on. This was before the cop showed up at her new apartment in February claiming there was fire and all of her previous statements had been burned.  She wasn't fooled.

They knew what Adams said, and that she went down the stairs with Styles. There is no question they talked to Styles and were looking for her to contradict Adams. I don't know how many times.

Adams pressed Belin at her interview as to why he did not also call Styles to testify. Remember his lame answer?  We have you; we don't need her!  An admission of defeat with Styles.

[Sandy Larsen]

4 hours ago, Roger Odisio said:

[The Vickie Adam's timing] does not prove that the 2nd floor encounter never happened.  It proves it didn't happen *as the WC claimed*.  I.e., after Oswald came down the stairs from the 6th floor after shooting Kennedy.

 

True.

But there are other things that clearly indicate that NO second-floor Oswald/Baker encounter ever occurred. For one, Baker knew that Oswald was the leading suspect. And yet in his first-day statement he doesn't even mention encountering Oswald (or anybody else) in the second-floor lunchroom.

Second, it is clear that the second-floor encounter was inserted into the Oswald interrogation reports. As the reports stand now, they claim that Oswald went to the second-floor to get a coke, at which time he encountered Baker. After which he went back to the first floor and ate lunch.

This chronology is obviously wrong. But if you remove the second-floor encounter from the interrogation notes, the chronology makes sens again.

The second floor encounter never took place.

 

[Roger Odisio]

10 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Yes, you are right. It shows that an encounter -- if there was one -- didn't happen shortly (within 90 seconds?) after the shooting.

 

 

Can you explain this in a little more detail? It sounds like you're saying that Oswald could have gone up some steps to leave the building.

Do you mean, he could have gone up the steps, met Truly and Baker on the second floor, and then gone back down and exited the building?

 

 

Greg or Andrej would know their scenario better.  Oswald was on the first floor. After the murder he went up the steps to the second floor to get his jacket(?), on his way to leave the building by the back door.  

As I said, if true, it is a minor point relative to the larger questions I care about. I have not committed their scenario to memory.

I suspect they fabricated the story in order to situate Oswald in the building and tie him to an interesting story (gee, the cops almost had him!), to divert attention from the fact that they had no one who could place him on the 6th floor at the time of the murder.

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

The second floor encounter never took place.

So you think BAKER lied. And you think TRULY lied. And you think FRITZ lied when he said that Oswald himself said he encountered the policeman on the second floor. And you think BOOKHOUT lied when he said (on Page 619 of the WCR) that Oswald admitted that the 2nd-floor encounter did occur.

When you need to accuse so many people of telling blatant lies, it should send up a red flag to all reasonable researchers.

 

Edited January 10 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Maybe she omitted the visit to the passenger elevator in what she told him as she didn't see the relevance in it. The questioner didn't know about it and she didn't volunteer it. And the WC staffer freaked out.

Often WC witnesses give details in their testimony which is clear the questioner was unprepared for and didn't know about. The visit to the passenger elevator could be just yet another example of this.

If she'd claimed they went to the passenger elevator first, as you assume, the WC representative, presumably Belin, would have been delighted. Ball and Belin were looking for ways to discredit Adams. It follows then that Styles' discussion with a WC representative, a discussion for which this representative failed to write a memo, moreover, was supportive of Adams' story. 

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Let's think about this logically.

Where did Adams and Styles run to?

The front of the tsbd.

They had no interest in what was going on in the railroad yard to the west if the tsbd. They ran straight past there to get to the front of the tsbd.

From that 4th floor window what is the most direct route to get to the front of the tsbd?

The passenger elevator.

What??? Of course they had an interest in what was going on in the railroad yards. They started to go over there but were stopped by a policeman who told them to go back in the building. 

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

3 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

I agree. Well after Adams, Lovelady, and Shelley had testified, Ball wrote a memo saying they needed to call Eddie Piper back and ask if he saw Adams come down the stairs. He was clearly looking for more ways to discredit her. IF he thought Styles might do the trick, he would most certainly have called her. But he didn't. Which should lead us to believe he KNEW she wouldn't undermine Adams. 

And this raises a question... Did Ball or Belin call her or have the DPD call her, and ask her some questions, and then fail to take her testimony, because of how she answered these questions? 

P.S. I just noticed that Styles told Murphy in 2008 that she met with a WC representative briefly in her office, and was confused as to why they didn't call her as a witness. I think we know the answer. 

If Adams & Styles exited the first floor via the large overhead door (which was between the stairs & the elevators), if that door was open, then would Piper have seen Adams & Styles? NOPE.

Edited January 10 by Marjan Rynkiewicz