Rich Delarosa and the “other” film of the assassination

[Mike Aitken]

I was reading a thread in which Rich Delarosa’s story of viewing an alternate film of the assassination came up and I just have some questions for you all.

1. Do you tend to believe Delarosa’s story about viewing an alternate film of the JFK assassination on the campus of UMD in the 70s?

2. Who would have had possession of this film and why would they have shown it to a bunch of college kids?

3. If you do believe Delarosa’s story, do you believe that a copy of this film still exists?  If so, who do you believe has possession of it and where is it now?

Here’s the thread and some of what Delarosa said:

 

“Quote from: Walt Rollins on Today at 11:52 AM
Rich, how did you come to view the film in the first place? Did 
someone invite you? Did a friend of yours know the presenter of the 
film? Was it a secret showing? How did those viewing it get the chance 
to see it? There might be some clues in your answers to find out where 
this film might have come from.......

Walt,
I mentioned that on the program.
In 1974-76, I was stationed at Andrews AFB outside DC. I was
working on a B.S. in Political Science part time. I used to 
attend classes at the U of Maryland's main campus in College Park on
weekends. On Saturdays and Sundays classes were 3 hours each.
One each morning and one each afternoon. There was a break for
lunch in between. Some people studied, some went off campus
to eat, some brown-bagged it. Most of us just hung around.
On 2 occasions while I was there, word got around that if anyone
was interested, a film of the JFK assassination would be shown
at lunch in an empty classroom. I went, once before the Z film
was shown on TV, once again after. I had heard of this happening
at other colleges in that time period. So I went and a guy, 
unknown to me, waited until a fair number of people arrived, and used a 
16mm projector to show the film. I recall him running it twice each 
time.
Some of us joined in spontaneous discussions afterward. The first 
time I assumed it was the Z film but no one said it was. The second 
time I knew immediately that it wasn't the Z film. I remained silent 
about these viewings for over 20 years.
I don't know where the film came from but recall that College Park
is only a short drive around the Beltway from both DC and NSA.
The guy with the film didn't identify himself and I don't recall 
anyone asking him.

At that time, I held a Top Secret/Crypto security 
clearance and I was very accustomed to not asking questions.“

[Chris Bristow]

The thread about a defect in the Moorman photo had nothing to do with the Z film. It was an interesting grid pattern defect in the grass but was very likely to be the result of extreme enhancement. I may have done another thread on the fake Youtube Z film with an added frame between 312 and 313.  It caused the limo 2 appear at half speed for 2 frames and they claimed that was the limo stop. 
EDIT: Ok I looked at the thread. It dovetailed off into other subjects after my question was answered and there was another Chis posting in the room being referenced.

Edited May 18 by Chris Bristow

[Mike Aitken]

50 minutes ago, Chris Bristow said:

The thread about a defect in the Moorman photo had nothing to do with the Z film. It was an interesting grid pattern defect in the grass but was very likely to be the result of extreme enhancement. I may have done another thread on the fake Youtube Z film with an added frame between 312 and 313.  It caused the limo 2 appear at half speed for 2 frames and they claimed that was the limo stop. 
EDIT: Ok I looked at the thread. It dovetailed off into other subjects after my question was answered and there was another Chis posting in the room being referenced.

I came upon the Moorman photo thread when I did a forum search for Delarosa after reading through this thread…

 

*That said, I read the thread from the beginning as did see the defects/repetitions in the close-ups of the grass on the knoll, but the technical stuff about photo compression was above my pay grade.

 

[Mike Aitken]

Regarding my original questions, I seem to remember reading or listening to an interview in which Robert Groden stated that his first public showing of the Zapruder Film was at American University in DC, prior to the showing on Geraldo Rivera’s show.  
 

Is it possible that Delarosa was there or at one of Mark Lane’s semi-private showings of the film, prior to it being shown on the Rivera show, and just misremembered the circumstances and what the film actually showed?  Possibly an instance of the so-called Mandela Effect?

Edited May 18 by Mike Aitken

[Gil Jesus]

1 hour ago, Mike Aitken said:

Regarding my original questions, I seem to remember reading or listening to an interview in which Robert Groden stated that his first public showing of the Zapruder Film was at American University in DC, prior to the showing on Geraldo Rivera’s show.  
 

Is it possible that Delarosa was there or at one of Mark Lane’s semi-private showings of the film, prior to it being shown on the Rivera show, and just misremembered the circumstances and what the film actually showed?  Possibly an instance of the so-called Mandela Effect?

Dellarosa wasn't the only one to claim that he saw a different version of the Zapruder film. The description of what he saw is corroborated by at least one other person.

 

[Nick Bartetzko]

Rich wasn't the only one in the US who claimed to have seen it. I'm certain Greg Burnham did and 2-3 others whose names I just can't recall anymore. I'm open to the idea of a second film, but where could such a good film  have been taken from the area in which Zapruder was also filming? There is no photographic evidence that I'm aware of that shows another individual filming. As to that French source, it's not believable imo. 

[Keven Hofeling]

'Rich Della Rosa Describes What He Saw In The Other Zapruder Film'

_______________

'Rich Dellarosa: The Other Zapruder Film - Black Op Radio 2-26-09'
Jack McFile | Published on May 20, 2013 
https://youtu.be/wRhcQI4tFTI

_______________

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/4728545/the-great-zapruder-film-hoax-assassination-research

 

Edited May 18 by Keven Hofeling

[Nick Bartetzko]

53 minutes ago, Keven Hofeling said:

'Rich Della Rosa Describes What He Saw In The Other Zapruder Film'

_______________

'Rich Dellarosa: The Other Zapruder Film - Black Op Radio 2-26-09'
Jack McFile | Published on May 20, 2013 
https://youtu.be/wRhcQI4tFTI

_______________

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/4728545/the-great-zapruder-film-hoax-assassination-research

 

Thanks. I'm trying to come up with the names of the others who saw the other file. No luck yet....

[Keven Hofeling]

58 minutes ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

Thanks. I'm trying to come up with the names of the others who saw the other file. No luck yet....

We can put at the top of the list Erwin Schwartz, Abraham Zapruder's business partner, who undisputedly viewed the camera-original Zapruder film multiple times on Friday and Saturday, 11/22/1963 and 11/23/1963, while Schwartz was accompanying Zapruder to have the film developed, and watched it projected multiple times for journalists and investigators.

We can place him in the category of individuals who viewed "the other Zapruder film" because his descriptions of what he viewed in that film differ from what we see today in the extant "original" Zapruder film.

I've long been interested in Schwartz's testimony in relation to his account (as well as the accounts of numerous other witnesses) of seeing blood, brain and skull blown backwards out of the President's head -- imagery that is not in the extant "original" Zapruder film.

I have had the following, from Noel Twyman's "Bloody Treason," for a good number of years:

"...When I interviewed Erwin Schwartz, I asked him several questions about what he saw on the film when he first viewed it in its original state at Eastman Kodak. [In a footnote, Twyman made clear that Schwartz was referring to first viewing the film in its 16 mm wide, unslit state at the Kodak plant in Dallas.] ...I also asked him to describe what he saw at the instant of the fatal head shot. His answer was very descriptive. He said he saw Kennedy's head suddenly whip around to the left (counter-clockwise). I also asked him if he saw the explosion of blood and brains out of the head. He replied that he did. I asked him if he noticed which direction the eruption went. He pointed back over his left shoulder. He said, "It went this way." I said, "You mean it went to the left and rear?" He said, "Yes." Bartholomew then asked him, "Are you sure that you didn't see the blood and brains going up and to the front?" Schwartz said, "No; it was to the left and rear." We went over this several times with him to be certain he was clear on this point. He was very clear. Of course. Schwartz's statement that the blood and brains went back to the rear and left was completely consistent with all of the eyewitnesses who said they saw the rear of Kennedy's head blow out and brain and blood go to the rear. It was also consistent with Dallas motorcycle policeman Bobby Hargis's testimony that he was riding to the rear and the left of limousine and was splattered with blood and brains...So here we have testimony from a man who first saw the original Zapruder film (he said he looked- at it at least fifteen times over the weekend)...who...saw the eruption of blood and brains in a direction opposite [to] what we now see on the Zapruder film...."

In preparation for this post I did some research and found that Richard Bartholomew published the source interview for the above material on the internet on May 25, 2023, and the following excerpts from that interview are relevant to this subject:

"...Erwin remembers that JFK leaned toward Jackie after the first shot. And the camera didn't stay on him. “It kind of moved,” Erwin said. Jackie “kind of pushed him upright,” Erwin said, and she looked at him as if to be saying, “What's wrong?” Then his head snapped back, and half of it came off. “You didn't see the open skull, but you saw stuff flying everywhere.” Erwin said the debris went toward the back. JFK was turned toward Jackie. Erwin did not see any stopping of the motion of the car or the film. “I don't think it ever came to a stop,” he said.

This motion was seen by Erwin at the first viewing and during his subsequent viewings. “People have asked me, ‘did he go straight back like that?’” Erwin said. “No, he went that way. I mean, you know, because you could see his face after the shot,” Erwin answered....

...Erwin cannot comment on witness claims that the limousine came to a stop because he wasn’t there. The car had not stopped in Erwin’s estimation. When Clint Hill caught up with it, the car was moving. Erwin did not see any indication in the film that the panning action of the camera stopped either. Erwin thinks Clint Hill’s actions were the most heroic thing he has seen. “He literally pushed her back into that seat. Dove on top of her. I mean, if anybody deserved a medal it’s that guy.”

At the first indication that JFK had been hit, Erwin could not tell where he got hit. There was no blood or anything. Erwin always saw the film at full speed. He never saw it slow. The debris flew off JFK’s head quick enough that Erwin described it as “a jerk.” When asked if he saw any debris go forward, Erwin said, “No. Not that I recall. It went backwards, left.” It looked like just one shot, “then you see her trying to get the hell out of there.”..."

'Erwin Schwartz Interview, Nov. 21, 1994'
Regarding Mr. Schwartz's and his business partner Abraham Zapruder’s early chain of possession of Mr. Zapruder's film
BARTHOLOVIEWS | By Richard Bartholomew | May 25, 2023 | https://medium.com/@bartholoviews/erwin-schwartz-interview-nov-21-1994-c86708034449

The takeaways from this, in my opinion, are that just like Dan Rather of CBS and Cartha DeLoach of the FBI, Schwartz did not see the violent backwards head snap in the camera original film (the violent backwards headsnap also was not reported by a single Dealey Plaza witness as happening in real time [Doug Horne discussing this subject speculates that the violent rearward headsnap is the result of frame removal to excise the rearward flying biological debris coming out of JFK's head]).

And Schwartz also repeatedly emphasizes seeing the rearward flying biological debris, imagery which is completely absent from the extant "original" Zapruder film (instead, we see only the black patch that covers the occipital-parietal wound in the back of JFK's head):

The following witness accounts are indicative of the rearward flying biological debris we should be seeing in the Zapruder headshhot sequence directly above, but which has clearly been completely excised from the extant film:

__________
"...BLOOD, BRAIN MATTER, AND BONE FRAGMENTS EXPLODED FROM THE BACK OF THE PRESIDENT'S HEAD. THE PRESIDENT'S BLOOD, PARTS OF HIS SKULL, BITS OF HIS BRAIN WERE SPLATTERED ALL OVER ME -- ON MY FACE, MY CLOTHES, IN MY HAIR..."

Secret Service Agent Clint Hill (in his 2012 book "Mrs. Kennedy and Me: An Intimate Memoir").
__________
"...I HAD BRAIN MATTER ALL OVER MY WINDSHIELD AND LEFT ARM, THAT'S HOW CLOSE WE WERE TO IT ... IT WAS THE RIGHT REAR PART OF HIS HEAD ... BECAUSE THAT'S THE PART I SAW BLOW OUT. I SAW HAIR COME OUT, THE PIECES BLOW OUT, THEN THE SKIN WENT BACK IN -- AN EXPLOSION IN AND OUT..."

Secret Service Agent Samuel Kinney (3/5/1994 interview by Vince Palamara).
__________
"...WHEN PRESIDENT KENNEDY STRAIGHTENED BACK UP IN THE CAR THE BULLET HIT HIM IN THE HEAD, THE ONE THAT KILLED HIM AND IT SEEMED LIKE HIS HEAD EXPLODED, AND I WAS SPLATTERED WITH BLOOD AND BRAIN, AND KIND OF A BLOODY WATER...."

Dallas Motorcycle Patrolman Bobby Hargis (4/8/1964 Warren Commission testimony).
__________
"...I CAN REMEMBER SEEING THE SIDE OF THE PRESIDENT'S EAR AND HEAD COME OFF. I REMEMBER A FLASH OF WHITE AND THE RED AND JUST BITS AND PIECES OF FLESH EXPLODING FROM THE PRESIDENT'S HEAD..."

Dealey Plaza witness Bill Newman interviewed about the JFK assassination -- 0:13-0:27 -- https://youtu.be/EEhlbAwI7Zg?t=13
__________
"...THE HEAD SHOT SEEMED TO COME FROM THE RIGHT FRONT. IT SEEMED TO STRIKE HIM HERE [gesturing to her upper right forehead, up high at the hairline], AND HIS HEAD WENT BACK, AND ALL OF THE BRAIN MATTER WENT OUT THE BACK OF THE HEAD. IT WAS LIKE A RED HALO, A RED CIRCLE, WITH BRIGHT MATTER IN THE MIDDLE OF IT - IT JUST WENT LIKE THAT...."

Dealey Plaza witness Marilyn Willis from 24:26-24:58 of TMWKK, Episode 1, at following link cued in advance for you https://youtu.be/BW98fHkbuD8?t=1466 ).
__________
"...Charles Brehm: 0:21 WHEN THE SECOND BULLET HIT, THERE WAS, THE HAIR SEEMED TO GO FLYING. IT WAS VERY DEFINITE THEN THAT HE WAS STRUCK IN THE HEAD WITH THE SECOND BULLET, AND, UH, YES, I VERY DEFINITELY SAW THE EFFECT OF THE SECOND BULLET.

Mark Lane: 0:38 Did you see any particles of the President's skull fly when the bullet struck him in the head?

Charles Brehm: 0:46 I SAW A PIECE FLY OVER OH IN THE AREA OF THE CURB WHERE I WAS STANDING.

Mark Lane: 0:53 In which direction did that fly?

Charles Brehm: 0:56 IT SEEMED TO HAVE COME LEFT AND BACK...."

Dealey Plaza witness Charles Brehm interviewed about JFK assassination by Mark Lane for the 1967 documentary "Rush to Judgment": https://youtu.be/RsnHXywKIKs
__________
"...I SAW THE HEAD PRACTICALLY OPEN UP AND BLOOD AND MANY MORE THINGS, WHATEVER IT WAS, BRAINS, JUST CAME OUT OF HIS HEAD...."

Testimony of Dealey Plaza witness Abraham Zapruder -- who filmed the assassination -- at the Clay Shaw trial -- https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/zapruder_shaw2.htm
__________
"...I also asked him if he saw the explosion of blood and brains out of the head. He replied that he did. I asked him if he noticed which direction the eruption went. He pointed back over his left shoulder. He said, "IT WENT THIS WAY." I said, "You mean it went to the left and rear?" He said, "YES." Bartholomew then asked him, "Are you sure that you didn't see the blood and brains going up and to the front?" Schwartz said, "NO; IT WAS TO THE LEFT AND REAR...."

Excerpt from interview of Erwin Schwartz -- Abraham Zapruder's business partner -- who accompanied Zapruder to develop the camera-original Zapruder film, and saw the camera-original projected more than a dozen times. Bloody Treason by Noel Twyman.
__________
"...Brugioni's most vivid recollection of the Zapruder film was "...OF JFK'S BRAINS FLYING THROUGH THE AIR." He did not use the term 'head explosion,' but rather referred to apparent exit debris seen on the film the night he viewed it. "...AND WHAT I'LL NEVER FORGET WAS -- I KNEW THAT HE HAD BEEN ASSASSINATED -- BUT WHEN WE ROLLED THE FILM AND I SAW A GOOD PORTION OF HIS HEAD FLYING THROUGH THE AIR, THAT SHOCKED ME, AND THAT SHOCKED EVERYBODY WHO WAS THERE..."

Excerpt from interview of Dino Brugioni -- Photoanalyst at the CIA's National Photographic Interpretation Center -- who viewed the camera-original Zapruder film the evening of 11/23/1963. Douglas Horne, Inside the Assassination Records Review Board" , 2009, Volume IV, Chapter 14, page 1329.  

__________

 

[Nick Bartetzko]

All of this is consistent with Dino Brugnioni's description and with Tink Thompson's video presentation as well. There was also a reference recently on this forum as to Clint Hill's description of a shot that sounded hollow, hearing a double bang, metal sound. This sure seems like more circumstantial evidence for a storm drain shot at street level and that drain was located before the limousine approached the stairs on the grassy knoll. Years ago Jack Brazil proved that the sewer system could be accessed and he or an associate or both crawled through there to get to that drain. Additionally Brazil spoke of a black car near the Trinity River access point to the underground sewer system. There is also the Francis Fruge Will Fritz connection as to having found maps of the underground tunnels in the apt of Sergio Arcacha Smith. I've walked the plaza twice and that location has more circumstantial evidence favoring it than any other location. 

[Denny Zartman]

Good work @Keven Hofeling . You know your stuff.

[Ron Bulman]

Thanks for this video Keven, I've never seen it.  Your comments and it are concise.  

Delarosa seems sincere and believable, not seeking fame or fortune (ha).  

He saw Greer initially targeting a 110 degree turn onto the Elm Street Extension directly in front of the TSBD.  Then correcting to the middle lane of Elm at 130 degrees.  Not on the Zapruder film as we know it.  

Then Umbrella Man not just holding it up but pumping it up and down.  And Dark Complected Man stepping into the street, waving his closed fist, an Infantry sign to stop.

The limo cane to a complete stop.  Two shots to the head, back then front.  Sharp focus.  This makes sense. 

[Paul Bacon]

Interesting that Erwin Shwartz says he saw no limo stop and Rich Dellarossa is adamant that the limo stopped...  Don't know what to make of that.

[Dan Rice]

16 hours ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

Rich wasn't the only one in the US who claimed to have seen it. I'm certain Greg Burnham did and 2-3 others whose names I just can't recall anymore. I'm open to the idea of a second film, but where could such a good film  have been taken from the area in which Zapruder was also filming? There is no photographic evidence that I'm aware of that shows another individual filming. As to that French source, it's not believable imo. 

The 'other film' refers to the original un-altered Zapruder film, not a film shot by a second photographer.

Personally, I'm undecided as to whether the Zapruder film was altered.

Edited May 19 by Dan Rice

[Keven Hofeling]

2 hours ago, Paul Bacon said:

Interesting that Erwin Shwartz says he saw no limo stop and Rich Dellarossa is adamant that the limo stopped...  Don't know what to make of that.

That Erwin Schwartz specifically says the limo did not stop troubles me, and it also troubles me that Dino Brugioni, when interviewed by Peter Janney and Doug Horne in 2009, did not say that he had seen the limo stop.

Yet, when we consult the earliest testimony of the eyewitnesses closest to the limo at the time of the headshot in Dealey Plaza, such as Bill Newman, Charles Brehm, Mary Moorman and Jean Hill, all four of them said it had in fact come to a stop...

--------------------------------------------------------------
From Vince Palamara's article, ‘Fifty–nine Witnesses: Delay on Elm Street’, Dealey Plaza Echo, vol.3 no.2 (July 1992), pp.1–7.

William Newman was adamant that the car stopped. Palamara cites several accounts of interviews with researchers: “the car momentarily stopped and the driver seemed to have a radio or phone up to his ear and he seemed to be waiting on some word. … Then the cars roared off. … I’ve maintained that they stopped. I still say they did. It was only a momentary stop, but … I believe Kennedy’s car came to a full stop after the final shot. Now everywhere that you read about it, you don’t read anything about the car stopping. And when I say ‘stopped’ I mean very momentarily, like they hit the brakes and just a few seconds passed and then they floorboarded and accelerated on … and just for a moment they hesitated and stopped.”

http://22november1963.org.uk/did-jfk-limo-stop-on-elm-street
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From 'An Interview with Assassination Eye Witness Bill Newman', THE DEALEY PLAZA ECHO, Volume 2, March 1992:

 " and the car momentarily stopped" 

And then I can remember that when we were on the ground - I'd like to bring this up if I may - looking back over my shoulder I can remember, I believe it was the passenger in the front seat - there were two men in the front seat - had a telephone or something to his ear and the car momentarily stopped. Now everywhere that you read about it, you don't read anything about the car stopping. And when I say "stopped" I mean very momentarily, like they hit the brakes and just a few seconds passed and then they floorboarded and accelerated on." 

LAW: "But you don't really see that in the Zapruder film." 

NEWMAN: "No, you don't. But anyway, that's the impression I'm left with." 

LAW: "Several people said that the car stopped." 

NEWMAN: "Yes, and then they shot on. You know, through the overpass, the railroad overpass, and that's the last we saw of them."

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/N Disk/Newman William & Gayle/Item 01.pdf 
------------------------------------------------------------
From the 11/25/1963 FBI report of interview of Charles F. Brehm:

 "...BREHM expressed his opinion that between the first and third shots, the President's car only Seemed to move some 10 or 12 feet . It seemed to him that the automobile almost came to a halt after the first shot, but of this he is not certain. After the third shot, the car in which the President was riding increased its speed and went under the freeway overpass and out of his sight...."

 https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1425.pdf
------------------------------------------------------------------
From the 11/22/1963 FBI report of interview of Mary Moorman:

"...[Mary Moorman] recalls that the President's automobile was moving at the time she took the second picture, and when she heard the shots, and has the impression that the car either stopped momentarily or hesitated and then drove off in a hurry..." 

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1426.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From the 11/22/1963 Dallas County Sheriff's Department report of interview of Jean Hill:

"Mary Moorman started to take a picture. We were looking at the president and Jackie in the back seat... Just as the president looked up two shots rang out and I saw the president grab his chest and fell forward across Jackie's lap... There was an instant pause between two shots and the motorcade seemingly halted for an instant. Three or four more shots rang out and the motorcade sped away."

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340264/m1/1/

Of these eyewitnesses, Bill Newman has been most persistent in maintaining his account of the limo stop, as we see in the following 2016 presentation at the Sixth Floor Museum (and note that Newman's description mirrors that of the DPD motorcycle patrolmen accounts of the Secret Service agents fanning out from the follow up car and running up the grassy knoll along with some of the motorcycle patrolmen):

 

And it is undeniable that the testimony of the numerous DPD motorcycle patrolmen who were flanking the limousine about the Presidential Motorcade coming to a stop and the Secret Service agents in the follow up car momentarily dispersing is very compelling:

Larry Rivera wrote:

14 January 2019 at 12:19 pm | https://midnightwriternews.com/mwn-episode-107-douglas-horne-on-the-zapruder-film-alteration-debate/

Unfortunately, my two-part “JFK Horsemen” videos mentioned by Douglas [Horne] were scrubbed by Youtube last year after receiving thousands of views and likes. In the audiotapes provided to me by Tyler Newcomb, whose father Fred wrote “Murder From Within”, it was clearly established by the motorcycle escort, Hargis, Martin, Chaney, Jackson, and their supervisor Stavis Ellis, that the limo came to a complete stop, where a Secret Service agent snatched a piece of JFK’s skull from a kid standing on the South curb of Elm Street then tossed into the limo, five Secret Service agents dismounted and ran up to and surrounded JFK’s limo with guns drawn, AND Chaney described how Hargis parked his bike and “ran in between the two limos” on his way up the embankment. None of this is seen in any of the films that survive today. Moreover, one of the very first reports by Cronkite described “Secret Service Agents fanning out into the crowd, looking for the assassin”

This is the reason why the motorcycle cops were hidden away and suppressed for years from researchers. To give you an example, Hargis and Martin were the only ones who testified before the Warren Commission for a grand total of 7 1/2 pages! The FBI did not interview any of the escorts until 1975, well after the fact, and it was only to establish shots from behind. These reports read like true theater of the absurd, where they are portrayed as looking over their shoulders toward the TSBD when in fact you see none of this in any of the films.

-----------------------------------------------------------
ALL FOUR OF THE DALLAS POLICE MOTORCYCLISTS FLANKING THE REAR OF JFK'S LIMOUSINE REPORTED THAT THE LIMO CAME TO A COMPLETE STOP IN DEALEY PLAZA:

 "... The vagaries of eyewitness testimony are well known, and it might be argued that these police witnesses (as well as the other witnesses who also reported the limousine deceleration) were simply mistaken about what they observed. This seems extremely unlikely, however, because all four of the Dallas police motorcyclists flanking the rear of JFK’s limousine also reported the limousine stopped or slowed...."  
 
Donald E. Wilkes, Jr.
Professor of Law Emeritus at the University of Georgia School of Law.
--------------------------------------------------------------
"...I will now point to some of the evidence that the limousine did indeed stop or slow down. I pass over similar reports made by civilian spectators and news media people, and limit myself to reports made by police officers in or near Dealey Plaza. 

Using binoculars, Harry D. Holmes, a federal postal inspector, watched the presidential limousine as it turned from Houston Street and then proceeded down Elm Street from his fifth floor office window in a building two blocks from Dealey Plaza. He testified to the Warren Commission that he heard what sounded like three firecrackers. He saw what he thought was dust coming out of JFK’s head. Then: “The car almost came to a stop.” 

Earle V. Brown was a Dallas policeman standing on the overpass of the Stemmons Freeway, about 100 yards from Elm Street. Here is an excerpt from his Warren Commission testimony: 

MR. BROWN: “[T]he first I noticed the car was when it stopped.” 

MR. BALL (Warren Commission counsel): “Where?” 

MR. BROWN: After it made the turn [from Houston Street to Elm Street] and when the shots were fired, it stopped.” 

MR. BALL: “Did it come to a complete stop?” 

MR. BROWN: “That I couldn’t swear to.” 

MR. BALL: “It appeared to be slowed down some?” 

MR. BROWN: “Yes; slowed down.” 

MR. BALL: “Did you hear the shots?” 

MR. BROWN: “Yes, sir.” 

J.W. Foster was a Dallas policeman stationed on the railroad overpass at the corner of Elm, Main and Commerce Streets. In a statement to the FBI made on Mar. 26, 1964, he said: “Immediately after President Kennedy was struck with a second bullet, the car in which he was riding pulled to the curb …” 

D.V. Harkness was a Dallas policeman standing in Dealey Plaza south of Elm Street. Here is part of his Warren Commission testimony: 

MR. BELIN (Warren Commission counsel): “What did you do [when you heard the gunshots]?” 

MR. HARKNESS: “When I saw the first shot and the President’s car slow down to almost a stop—“ 

MR. BELIN: “When you saw the first shot. What do you mean by that?” 

MR. HARKNESS: “When I heard the first shot and saw the President’s car almost come to a stop and some of the agents piling off the car, I went back to the intersection to get my motorcycle.” 

The vagaries of eyewitness testimony are well known, and it might be argued that these police witnesses (as well as the other witnesses who also reported the limousine deceleration) were simply mistaken about what they observed. This seems extremely unlikely, however, because all four of the Dallas police motorcyclists flanking the rear of JFK’s limousine also reported the limousine stopped or slowed. 

Officer Bobby Hargis was the inside rider at the left rear of the limousine. In his testimony to the Warren Commission he said: “[W]hen President Kennedy straightened back up in the car the bullet hit him in the head, the one that killed him and it seemed like his head exploded, and I was splattered with blood and brain, and kind of bloody water. It wasn’t really blood. And at that time the Presidential car slowed down… I felt blood hit me in the face, and the Presidential car stopped immediately after that and stayed stopped for about half a second, then took off at a high rate of speed.” According to an undated, unpublished transcript of an interview he had with the Dallas Times-Herald, Hargis told the newspaper: “I felt blood hit me in the face, and the presidential car stopped immediately after that and stayed stopped about half a second, then took off at a high rate of speed.” (In a video of a 1995 interview, now on YouTube, you can watch Hargis tell the interviewer: “That guy [the Secret Service agent driving JFK’s limousine] slowed down… [He] slowed down almost to a stop.”) Hargis died in 2014. 

Officer B.J. Martin was the outside rider at the left rear of the limousine. He told the Warren Commission: “It [the motorcade] slowed down just before we made the turn on Elm Street [from Houston Street].” Officer Martin was later interviewed by researchers Fred Newcomb and Perry Adams and told them, as reported in their unpublished 1974 manuscript Murder from Within, that he observed the limousine stop for “just a moment.” 

Officer James M. Chaney was the inside rider at the right rear of the limousine. He did not testify before the Warren Commission, but two days after the assassination he was quoted in the Houston Chronicle as stating that the limousine stopped immediately after the first shot. Furthermore, Dallas police officer Marrion L. Baker, a Dallas police motorcyclist who was on Houston Street when the first shot was fired, testified to the Warren Commission that shortly after the assassination he had talked with officer Chaney and that Chaney told him that “from the time the shot rang out, the [limousine] stopped completely, pulled to the left, and stopped.” Officer Baker added: “Several officers said it stopped completely.” When then asked whether he had heard from other Dallas police officers that the limousine had stopped, he testified: “Yes, sir; that it had completely stopped, and then for a moment there, and then they rushed on out to Parkland [Hospital].” 

Officer Douglas Jackson was the outside rider at the right rear of the limousine. He did not testify before the Warren Commission, but he did tell researchers Newcomb and Adams that “the [limousine] just all but stopped… just a moment.”..." 

Donald E. Wilkes, Jr. is a Professor of Law Emeritus at the University of Georgia School of Law, where he taught for 40 years. He has published nearly 50 articles in Flagpole magazine on the JFK assassination.  

 Wilkes, Donald E. Jr., "Grassy Knoll Shots? Limousine Slowdown?" (2017). Popular Media. 279.   https://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1284&context=fac_pm

DPD Motorcycle Patrolman Bobby Hargis's Accounts of Stop of Presidential Limo During Assassination

DPD Motorcycle Patrolman B.J. Martin on Presidential Limo Stopping During Assassination

DPD Motorcycle Patrolman Harry Freeman Stopped in Front of Presidential Limo During Assassination

DPD Motorcycle Patrolman James Courson Says JFK Limo Stopped When Interviewed for 50th Anniversary

DPD Supervising Motorcycle Patrolman Stavis Ellis re Skull Fragment Put Back in Limo During Stop

Researcher Larry Rivera Explains Skull Fragment Being Placed Back in Limo During Assassination

Add to that the numerous witness accounts of the Presidential Limousine either momentarily stopping and/or significantly slowing as compiled by researcher Vince Palamara, and you are confronted with massive evidence that this actually happened:

Chapter Ten of 'HONEST ANSWERS ABOUT THE MURDER OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY' by Vince Palamara (Courtesy of Vince Palamara)

"Master List of Witnesses Who Stated That the Limousine Slowed or Stopped – A Deadly Delay on Elm Street"

The following is a complete listing, the largest one ever compiled, of every single witness I could find – over 70 in all – who stated that the limousine either slowed down or stopped. This deadly delay on Elm Street was Secret Service agent Bill Greer’s fault, pure and simple; he was the limousine driver. As even lone-nut authors agree, Greer’s inept driving of the limo during the shooting allowed the assassination to be a tragic success....

LINK TO PDF OF CHAPTER TEN: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AnVVyr2Qcdy-gccV7bF_4Je5GuEYaA?e=E6b8Ay

 

So when I weigh all of the cumulative evidence of the stop and/or significant slowing of the Presidential Limousine -- as well as the evidence of Secret Service Agents fanning out and dispersing from the follow up car -- against the Erwin Schwartz and Dino Brugioni evidence to the contrary from their accounts of the camera-original film given thirty and forty years after the fact, I have to wonder whether they simply forgot those particular details after all of those intervening years. There has to be some kind of explanation along those lines, given that the evidence of a stop or near stop is so significant and compelling.

 

Edited May 19 by Keven Hofeling