Was LHO Truly "Innocent"?

[Benjamin Cole]

Let me preface my remarks by stating I will take a defensive position behind the formidable escutcheon of the circumspect and veteran JFKA/RFK1A scholar Larry Hancock. I assume Hancock needs no introduction here. 

Soon Hancock will publish a book in which (I hope I have this right) he will describe LHO as unaffiliated with the CIA or other intel agencies by late 1963, had become an earnest Marxist/socialist, but that LHO was inveigled into a plot on 11/22.

(I have a pet theory that LHO was a recurrent intel-state asset, and was again on 11/22, and had been inveigled into a false flag op against JFK, to be blamed on Castro. LHO did not know the full scope of the false-flag plot, which may have been co-opted by anti-Castro hardliners.)

Let's say Hancock has nailed it---but that still has LHO leaving the TSBD in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA, going home to arm himself, and then hiding in the Texas Theater and acting if he expected to meet someone there. 

LHO's post-JFKA actions, I contend, at the minimum tell of a witness that had seen too much, and knew it. LHO knew he was, unfairly or otherwise, implicated in the JFKA. In fact, he said he knew he had been made a patsy---but you can't be made a patsy unless you were playing poker too. 

OK, whether Hancock's version or mine, when questioned by Dallas authorities, LHO did not tell the whole truth. LHO did not identify his co-conspirators, that is provide physical descriptions, putative names, and organizational affiliations. LHO did not explain what his role was to be, or the shape of the operation as he understood it. LHO did not explain his past associations with intel agencies. 

Now, some of LHO's muteness, post-JFKA, may be justifiable. He may have been waiting to contact handlers inside the intel state-CIA. 

LHO may have been keeping mum until he could figure out what the heck had just happened. Or perhaps he was waiting for transfer to a safer location. 

I will say this: If LHO had provided full details of the 11/22 op, as he knew it, and who were his co-conspirators and their organizational links, it may have blown the lid off of the JFKA case back then.  

LHO may have been innocent of intent in the JFKA, but was perhaps was guilty of obstruction of justice. 

@Larry Hancock

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 12:45 AM by Benjamin Cole

[Kevin Balch]

It appears to me that Oswald was stalling for time while in captivity based on his interrogation resistance and his attempts to get an attorney from across the country. 

I strongly doubt that if Oswald had any ties to the intel state that the intel state would use him in an assassination plot against JFK. If he did have intel state ties, he would be very useful for a plot run by those outside the intel state. What better way to get the intel state to cover up your plot than to have one of their own do it?

The idea that Oswald was totally innocent seems very unlikely. I do have a problem with timing placing Oswald at the Tippit shooting location even at 1:15. I think he got a ride somewhere along the way, probably along Colorado Blvd to Marsalis. When he realized his bus was not coming, he began to fear that his name and description was probably being broadcast and considered his options when he encountered Tippit.

Leaving the building immediately after the assassination might have been a deliberate attempt to draw attention toward himself to allow others to escape.

Oswald seemed to like adventure and intrigue. It would not surprise me if he was playing both sides and got caught up in something he did not expect.

Too much effort is expended on exonerating Oswald than getting at what could have happened. I have heard some propose that Oswald was intending to meet Marina and Ruth at the shoe store and that the pistol Oswald had when arrested was planted on him.

[Benjamin Cole]

7 hours ago, Kevin Balch said:

It appears to me that Oswald was stalling for time while in captivity based on his interrogation resistance and his attempts to get an attorney from across the country. 

I strongly doubt that if Oswald had any ties to the intel state that the intel state would use him in an assassination plot against JFK. If he did have intel state ties, he would be very useful for a plot run by those outside the intel state. What better way to get the intel state to cover up your plot than to have one of their own do it?

The idea that Oswald was totally innocent seems very unlikely. I do have a problem with timing placing Oswald at the Tippit shooting location even at 1:15. I think he got a ride somewhere along the way, probably along Colorado Blvd to Marsalis. When he realized his bus was not coming, he began to fear that his name and description was probably being broadcast and considered his options when he encountered Tippit.

Leaving the building immediately after the assassination might have been a deliberate attempt to draw attention toward himself to allow others to escape.

Oswald seemed to like adventure and intrigue. It would not surprise me if he was playing both sides and got caught up in something he did not expect.

Too much effort is expended on exonerating Oswald than getting at what could have happened. I have heard some propose that Oswald was intending to meet Marina and Ruth at the shoe store and that the pistol Oswald had when arrested was planted on him.

KB-- Thanks for your collegial comments.

IMHO, LHO was part of something on 11/22 and I wish he had stated what he knew.

[Andrej Stancak]

This is an interesting thread, albeit resting fully on "connecting dots". 

I am not sure about Lee Oswald's guilt, however, he behaved as someone having guilty knowledge. He left the Depository in haste, he tried to conceal his home location before the taxi cab driver, he took his gun and he went to the Texas Theatre where he behaved suspiciously. He could realise being a potential crime suspect only if he knew about a detail or few details that connected him with the shooting. That could be, for instance, his rifle which he knew he left at a certain spot in the building and which he could not find at that spot when he checked it just after shooting. More likely though, he acted based on instructions of intelligence officers (or people presenting themselves as intelligence officers) that prompted him to be in Oak Cliff at a certain hour as a part of "second plot" which plan he decided to follow irrespective of President's killing; since "second plot" as he was originally portrayed to him did not assume killing of the President, he became very suspicious about the possibility of being framed for the assassination after the shooting occurred which explains him taking his gun.

"Second plot" is the idea originally developed by Matthew Smith in his book JFK: Second Plot (https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Second-Plot-Matthew-Smith/dp/1840185015). I think Larry Hancock has added few important points to this theory based on his original research. Second plot was the plan to fly Oswald to Cuba from Redbird airfield in the afternoon of that fateful day with President's visit being a welcome opportunity to conceal the flight. The plan to get Oswald to Cuba would explain his pro-Castro leanings (handing leaflets on streets of  New Orleans in summer 1963) contrasting his associations with anti-Castro figures such as Guy Banister or David Ferry. Lee Oswald thought he was in the midst of intelligence games associated with Cuba and that he would come on top. After summer 1963, he may have been asked to return to Dallas and wait for next instructions as to how he would get to Cuba. Unbeknownst to Oswald, this was only the second plot with the first plot was to kill the President.

[Benjamin Cole]

38 minutes ago, Andrej Stancak said:

This is an interesting thread, albeit resting fully on "connecting dots". 

I am not sure about Lee Oswald's guilt, however, he behaved as someone having guilty knowledge. He left the Depository in haste, he tried to conceal his home location before the taxi cab driver, he took his gun and he went to the Texas Theatre where he behaved suspiciously. He could realise being a potential crime suspect only if he knew about a detail or few details that connected him with the shooting. That could be, for instance, his rifle which he knew he left at a certain spot in the building and which he could not find at that spot when he checked it just after shooting. More likely though, he acted based on instructions of intelligence officers (or people presenting themselves as intelligence officers) that prompted him to be in Oak Cliff at a certain hour as a part of "second plot" which plan he decided to follow irrespective of President's killing; since "second plot" as he was originally portrayed to him did not assume killing of the President, he became very suspicious about the possibility of being framed for the assassination after the shooting occurred which explains him taking his gun.

"Second plot" is the idea originally developed by Matthew Smith in his book JFK: Second Plot (https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Second-Plot-Matthew-Smith/dp/1840185015). I think Larry Hancock has added few important points to this theory based on his original research. Second plot was the plan to fly Oswald to Cuba from Redbird airfield in the afternoon of that fateful day with President's visit being a welcome opportunity to conceal the flight. The plan to get Oswald to Cuba would explain his pro-Castro leanings (handing leaflets on streets of  New Orleans in summer 1963) contrasting his associations with anti-Castro figures such as Guy Banister or David Ferry. Lee Oswald thought he was in the midst of intelligence games associated with Cuba and that he would come on top. After summer 1963, he may have been asked to return to Dallas and wait for next instructions as to how he would get to Cuba. Unbeknownst to Oswald, this was only the second plot with the first plot was to kill the President.

AS-

Thanks for your collegial comments. 

It is impossible to read another man's mind, but LHO's actions post-JFKA do suggest he knew something about the JFKA, and his statement about being a patsy might also. 

"I have been wrongfully arrested," or "they are just trying to pin this on me," while also cinematic in tone, might be said by someone simply arrested after the JFKA. Similarly, LHO does not say, "I guess I resembled someone seen at the scene of the JFKA-crime, and in the confusion I have been arrested."  

Well, there it stands, thanks for your contributions. 

 

 

[Joseph McBride]

Oswald did not own the rifle or the pistol the DPD

placed into evidence. Why do people on this

site keep making those errors?

Edited Tuesday at 08:18 AM by Joseph McBride

[Benjamin Cole]

45 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

Oswald did not own the rifle or the pistol the DPD

placed into evidence. Why do people on this

site keep making those errors?

JM-

You are certainly a talented and veteran JFKA researcher, and thanks for commenting. 

You raise a vexing issue: What evidence and documents in the JFKA are "real," and what was fabricated or altered? Which witness affidavits are more-or-less earnest, and which have been monkeyed with? 

There were multiple eyewitnesses that LHO had a handgun in the TT, and LHO assented to having a handgun when interrogated. Of course, these are DPD or Dallas Sheriff witnesses, and the record of his interrogation similarly put together by authorities. 

On LHO's purported rifle, Marina and de Mohrenschildt said they saw the rifle, and again one could say these are compromised or even planted witnesses. 

That paperwork at gun importers was iffy---again, perhaps the records were altered. But, having run a small furniture manufacturing operation, I can tell you our paperwork was lousy also. 

Some of my biases may stem from my general take on the JFKA, that it was not a top-down op, but rather a bottom-up organic op from the national-security-state assets, such as exiles, and involving LHO.  Whether the perps had assistance or tacit approval from above, I can't tell you. 

BTW, Larry Hancock has noted the spasmodic, uncoordinated, contradictory responses of the federal government in the 24-48 hours after the JFKA, with multiple story angles floated about, an arguable sign senior officials were in fact surprised or caught off-guard by the JFKA.

I myself have found an FBI memo from Nov. 22 telling of a SS agent finding a whole slug in the presidential memo. You don't see any reference to that after Nov. 24.

The official version of the JFKA seemed to jell about 48 hours in. 

Well, that is what the EF-JFKA is for. To air different viewpoints. We may be on different pages on this one. 

@Larry Hancock

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andrej Stancak]

@Joseph McBride Joseph: I am aware of how contentious the issue of Oswald's rifle is, mostly thanks to John Armstrong's research. As this is a thread allowing speculations, I thought of considering Oswald owning a rifle and a hand gun without wishing to rehash the content of several previous threads,

[Gil Jesus]

1 hour ago, Joseph McBride said:

Oswald did not own the rifle or the pistol the DPD placed into evidence.

Thank you.

[Gil Jesus]

To answer the question posed, yes Oswald was truly innocent.

The proof of that lies in the way the Dallas Police handled Oswald, the way they handled the evidence and the way they handled the witnesses.

www.gil-jesus.com

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:44 AM by Gil Jesus

[David Josephs]

3 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Oswald did not own the rifle or the pistol the DPD

placed into evidence. Why do people on this

site keep making those errors?

He also wasn't on the 6th floor, never at the Tippit murder scene, had 5 wallets found yet only 2 from Irving are in evidence, 
and was brought to his own execution by the Dallas Police.

Yes, as my other esteemed colleagues - and virtually anyone who scratches the surface knows - Oswald was played to make it appear he was pro-Castro, and in turn guilty by reputation.

He played "pro-Castro" for men who wanted the names of those who agreed with the FPCC...  While simultaneously doing this work for the intel community, he
 unknowingly allowed himself to be painted as an assassin sent from Castro, or not, while building his bone fides for further "penetration" work.

Honest Q here:  If the Chicago players didn't mess-up, wouldn't this conversation be about how Arthur Vallee was or was not innocent?

"No apparent connection to LHO". 11/2/63...

"Unlawful use of a weapon". Never mind the arsenal he was using.  and btw, OSWALD was not one of the 4 men... so the story is bogus. 

Start here and scroll down for more: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10448#relPageId=14 

 

[Robert Burrows]

5 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

AS-

Thanks for your collegial comments. 

It is impossible to read another man's mind, but LHO's actions post-JFKA do suggest he knew something about the JFKA, and his statement about being a patsy might also. 

"I have been wrongfully arrested," or "they are just trying to pin this on me," while also cinematic in tone, might be said by someone simply arrested after the JFKA. Similarly, LHO does not say, "I guess I resembled someone seen at the scene of the JFKA-crime, and in the confusion I have been arrested."  

Well, there it stands, thanks for your contributions. 

 

 

While in custody Oswald also said:

"I have committed no acts of violence."

That certainly implies that he may have committed nonviolent acts in furtherance of some type of plot.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 minutes ago, Robert Burrows said:

While in custody Oswald also said:

"I have committed no acts of violence."

That certainly implies that he may have committed nonviolent acts in furtherance of some type of plot.

 

Thanks for you collegial comments. You are correct , perhaps LHO is telling a truth in the instance you cite.

Too bad LHO never told his side of the story.

[Johnny Cairns]

Lee Oswald was categorically innocent of the crimes attributed to him. 

[Joe Bauer]

On 9/3/2024 at 1:18 AM, Joseph McBride said:

Oswald did not own the rifle or the pistol the DPD

placed into evidence. Why do people on this

site keep making those errors?

Are the backyard photos fake? Do the rifle and pistol shown in those match the ones held as evidence by the DPD and FBI?