Michael Collins Piper: Final Judgement

[Tim Gratz]

Piper:

I did read many chapters of "Final Judgment" on the Internet several years ago.

It is POSSIBLE you were not aware it was on the Internet so I will not accuse you of lying about it.

Does any other Forum member remeber that it was on the Internet?

By the way, you can stand with David Duke. I will gladly stand with the Rev. Falwell. Falwell, I am sure, would have sacrificed his life to save the lives of the Jews who were being slaughtered by the Nazis you so admire.

[John Simkin]

Have you seen the interview on this thread?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6230

Silvia Cattori: It seems that in the 1960s, President Kennedy asked that inspections be carried out in Dimona, Israel. Do you see any links between that request and his assassination?

Mordechai Vanunu: I believe that, at that time, the United States opposed the Israeli nuclear program. Kennedy tried to stop Israel but he was assassinated before he could do it. For me, his assassination had to do with the proliferation of nuclear weapons in Israel and in other countries. Those who killed him were in favour of nuclear proliferation. Thanks to his death, proliferation continued. In fact, presidents Johnson and Nixon, who succeeded Kennedy, saw no inconvenience with that. They let Israel act. We can simply see that there was a change in that direction after Kennedy's assassination.

[Tim Gratz]

John, as I posted in another thread, to the best of my knowledge Vanunu claims no special knowledge of the Kennedy assassination. Therefore, how can he state that the people who killed Kennedy were "in favour of nuclear proliferation"?

Moreover, it is not clear that the US policy toward the Israeli nuclear weapond program changed under LBJ.

The book "Every Spy a Prince" is a highly praised study of Israeli intelligence and it has an interesting segment on the Vanunu story.

But listen to what the book says about LBJ's policy toward the Israeli nuclear program:

In his trips to Washington, [israel Prime Minister] Eshkol reached a tacit agreement with the Johnson administration that Israel would receive stepped up conventional military aid in exchange for slowing down the nuclear project.

Conclusion: Despite what Piper writes, LBJ, like JFK, desired and acted to slow down the Israeli nuclear program.

I hate to use a phrase popularized by Posner, but "Case Closed".

[Sid Walker]

It may, I fear, be too much to hope for a rational debate in this forum about the theory expounded in Michael Collins Piper's Final Judgment.

Zionists - 'left' and 'right' - will make sure it doesn't happen, by foul and diversionary behaviour well documented already in this lengthy thread.

Since February 2006, however, Piper has had a regular radio show on RBN.

The show is fully archived and downloads are free - go HERE.

Forum members may therefore judge for themselves whether Piper, on air, is knowledgeable and credible - or whether to believe the highly negative portrayal emanating from the likes of Gratz and Colby.

Several recent shows focused on the JFK assassination and may be of particular interest for that reason.

[Mark Wilson]

Hello All.I recently read Final Judgement,the 6th edition and highly recommend it to researchers that have an open mind.Awhile back i started a topic that was consistent with Piper's theory, entitled,"Israel,LBJ and the JFK assassination"before i had read FJ,needless to say that discussion quickly, and coincidently turned into a festival of changing the subject from the assassination of JFK to who is or isn't an anti semite,much the same way this topic deteriorated......The theory comes down to several points,here's a few that stood out to me.......How powerful was Lansky among the mafia leaders? Lansky was CIA, was the CIA mafia? Was Lansky,Ruby,Angleton, and others Mossad?......... Israel wanted the bomb,JFK opposed, How far would Israel go to get what they so very much wanted?...... Why did RFK go after the mafia,who helped get JFK elected?............. Angleton?, was he the fox watching the chicken coop? LBJ,Bush,Nixon,Ben Gurion,RFK,Joe Kennedy all get play in the book....The deaths of William Colby and John Paisley are discussed and are very interesting in the context of this theory....Sam Bloom is an intriguing character and Bernard Weissmann is,i believe, not mentioned in the book and not in the index.....In the end for me,it is amazing, the concerted,ongoing efforts to keep Israel off of the list of possible conspirators in the assassination of JFK considering the major motives they had for replacing LBJ with JFK.

[Sid Walker]

Hello All.I recently read Final Judgement,the 6th edition and highly recommend it to researchers that have an open mind.Awhile back i started a topic that was consistent with Piper's theory, entitled,"Israel,LBJ and the JFK assassination"before i had read FJ,needless to say that discussion quickly, and coincidently turned into a festival of changing the subject from the assassination of JFK to who is or isn't an anti semite,much the same way this topic deteriorated......

.....In the end for me,it is amazing, the concerted,ongoing efforts to keep Israel off of the list of possible conspirators in the assassination of JFK considering the major motives they had for replacing LBJ with JFK.

Yes, indeed.

Were Catholics, Protestants, Cubans, Italians, Corsicans, Russians and all the rest of humanity quite so sensitive, we'd not be able to discuss the JFK assassination at all.

But seriously, what attracts me above all to Piper's theory and leads me to believe it is substantially correct is that more and more 'clues' point the same way. Many of these were unknown (at least to Piper) when he completed the first edition.

In a recent thread called "Would We Know The Truth If We Saw It?, ...what if the truth came out?", I wrote:

We're dealing, in my opinion, with a very well entrenched and powerful group of conspirators, still active and probably more consolidated in their power than 4 decades ago.

So, in my view, the crime is only likely to be solved to the satisfaction of honest, informed researchers - and any 'solution' will undoubtedly be contested.

I suspect that's already the case.

I realize there are other threads specifically for discussion of Michael Collins Piper's Final Judgment. Unfortunately, they didn't seem to get into the important task of critiquing his theory and discussing the holes in it, if those holes exist.

Piper attached two chapters of his book in posts to to this thread. Substantive and critical comment was invited. As far as I can see, none of any substance was received.

I’ll attach another document to this post. Also written by Piper, it provides an overview of his Final Judgment hypothesis. It was written roughly a decade after the first edition of Final Judgment was published.

A short extract follows:

I was frankly astounded myself at the amount of material that emerged which did support my thesis. At the same time, though, there is absolutely no "evidence" of any kind to REFUTE my thesis. Only opinion, as in, "Oh, Israel would never do anything like that!"

Although I did keep thinking until almost the very end of the writing process that I would perhaps find some fact that would contradict my thesis, I never found any such information.

Instead, in the ten years that have passed since I was working on the first draft of the book, I have found a wealth of new information that solidifies and expands upon what had already been published.

The very strength of my book, according to many readers who are familiar with other data on the JFK assassination, is that it shows how all of the more familiar theories about the assassination are connected—and that connection is indeed the Israeli connection.

To this day, eight years after the release of the book:

• No one has been able to rebut the thesis, misquoted any of my sources or quoted any of my sources out of context.

• No one has been able to demonstrate where any of the key points in my thesis are refuted by other information.

• No one has has cited any specific errors (relevant to the thesis) that would contradict my thesis.

In the book I have pointed out the minor errors that have appeared in previous editions and challenged my readers: “Show Me Where I’m Wrong.” But none have done so.

Considering the energetic and very public efforts of the Jewish ADL to defame this book, one would think that the ADL would assemble a crack team of researchers to tear the book apart. And bear in mind that if the book were that insignificant, the ADL would not pay Final Judgment the attention that they do.

But the ADL refuses to debate me. People should ask "why?"

Piper’s thesis has, in my opinion, the hallmarks of a theory that's essentially correct.

A post I made about I.F. Stone was not derived from Piper’s book - I appear to have stumbled across that additional (minor) Israeli intelligence connection myself. That’s what one would expect from a ‘solution’ to a crime. If a theory is correct, other investigators are likely to find additional corroborating evidence.

I think the question people may need to ask themselves is whether they really want the truth about the JFK assassination – whatever that truth may be?

Those who do, to paraphrase George Orwell, may find it has been right in front of their nose (on this forum, for instance) for some time.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Hello All.I recently read Final Judgement,the 6th edition and highly recommend it to researchers that have an open mind.Awhile back i started a topic that was consistent with Piper's theory, entitled,"Israel,LBJ and the JFK assassination"before i had read FJ,needless to say that discussion quickly, and coincidently turned into a festival of changing the subject from the assassination of JFK to who is or isn't an anti semite,much the same way this topic deteriorated......

.....In the end for me,it is amazing, the concerted,ongoing efforts to keep Israel off of the list of possible conspirators in the assassination of JFK considering the major motives they had for replacing LBJ with JFK.

Yes, indeed.

Were Catholics, Protestants, Cubans, Italians, Corsicans, Russians and all the rest of humanity quite so sensitive, we'd not be able to discuss the JFK assassination at all.

But seriously, what attracts me above all to Piper's theory and leads me to believe it is substantially correct is that more and more 'clues' point the same way. Many of these were unknown (at least to Piper) when he completed the first edition.

In a recent thread called "Would We Know The Truth If We Saw It?, ...what if the truth came out?", I wrote:

We're dealing, in my opinion, with a very well entrenched and powerful group of conspirators, still active and probably more consolidated in their power than 4 decades ago.

So, in my view, the crime is only likely to be solved to the satisfaction of honest, informed researchers - and any 'solution' will undoubtedly be contested.

I suspect that's already the case.

I realize there are other threads specifically for discussion of Michael Collins Piper's Final Judgment. Unfortunately, they didn't seem to get into the important task of critiquing his theory and discussing the holes in it, if those holes exist.

Piper attached two chapters of his book in posts to to this thread. Substantive and critical comment was invited. As far as I can see, none of any substance was received.

I’ll attach another document to this post. Also written by Piper, it provides an overview of his Final Judgment hypothesis. It was written roughly a decade after the first edition of Final Judgment was published.

A short extract follows:

I was frankly astounded myself at the amount of material that emerged which did support my thesis. At the same time, though, there is absolutely no "evidence" of any kind to REFUTE my thesis. Only opinion, as in, "Oh, Israel would never do anything like that!"

Although I did keep thinking until almost the very end of the writing process that I would perhaps find some fact that would contradict my thesis, I never found any such information.

Instead, in the ten years that have passed since I was working on the first draft of the book, I have found a wealth of new information that solidifies and expands upon what had already been published.

The very strength of my book, according to many readers who are familiar with other data on the JFK assassination, is that it shows how all of the more familiar theories about the assassination are connected—and that connection is indeed the Israeli connection.

To this day, eight years after the release of the book:

• No one has been able to rebut the thesis, misquoted any of my sources or quoted any of my sources out of context.

• No one has been able to demonstrate where any of the key points in my thesis are refuted by other information.

• No one has has cited any specific errors (relevant to the thesis) that would contradict my thesis.

In the book I have pointed out the minor errors that have appeared in previous editions and challenged my readers: “Show Me Where I’m Wrong.” But none have done so.

Considering the energetic and very public efforts of the Jewish ADL to defame this book, one would think that the ADL would assemble a crack team of researchers to tear the book apart. And bear in mind that if the book were that insignificant, the ADL would not pay Final Judgment the attention that they do.

But the ADL refuses to debate me. People should ask "why?"

Piper’s thesis has, in my opinion, the hallmarks of a theory that's essentially correct.

A post I made about I.F. Stone was not derived from Piper’s book - I appear to have stumbled across that additional (minor) Israeli intelligence connection myself. That’s what one would expect from a ‘solution’ to a crime. If a theory is correct, other investigators are likely to find additional corroborating evidence.

I think the question people may need to ask themselves is whether they really want the truth about the JFK assassination – whatever that truth may be?

Those who do, to paraphrase George Orwell, may find it has been right in front of their nose (on this forum, for instance) for some time.

Sid;

Since I am also related to the "Walker's" in one way, shape, or form, perhaps we can discuss thing with civility without getting into potential genetic disorders due to inner-breeding.

(I am frequently accused of having cerebral-rectal inversion) among other things.

Nevertheless!

Your topic is quite worthwhile in exploring, however it would be considerably more valid if applied to the WHY? Ruby shot Oswald.

Not unlike many of his other "squirrel in the forest" games, LHO had cast direct suspicion in the direction of those of the Jewish faith/community/money handlers.

This, it would appear, sent shockwaves through the Jewish community, and the result was "termination with extreme prejudice" of LHO.

Nothing like ordering a rifle from a "Jewish" merchant which is to be utilized to kill a Catholic President.

Not to mention the other trails which LHO managed to leave.

I would also assume that most should be aware that the "Traveller's Aid Society" is/was primarily a Jewish organization.

And the list goes on and on and on!

[Jeff Dahlstrom]

The above posts 334, 335, 336, 337 by apparently informed and open minded truth seekers concerning the death of JFK are refreshing. After completing Mr. Pipers book and occasionally listening to his RBN internet radio show it is apparent to me that Final Judgement presents a credible thesis explaining the events and causes for the death of JFK that sunny morning in Dealey Plaza.

It has been almost 8 months since the hysterical discussions on this forum concerning Mr. Pipers book stopped. Hopefully, the opponents of Final Judgement have taken the time to actually read the book, like these recent posters. I would welcome anyone's posts that can provide "credible" evidence in the record that cantradicts this thesis that the Mossad and their Zionist sympathizers tried to secure nuclear weapons too defend themselves in the midst of a hostile Arab and Muslim region, opposed by JFK, had a motive to have him killed and silenced.v

If this post and the others referenced are considered anti-semitic and challenged on that basis, then we may have to wait for another 8 to 10 months for a civil debate on this thread.

Since I joined this forum out of curiosity about whether the crime of the 20th century had been resolved and the truth about Kennedy's killers had been determined, now 43 years later, I have turned my curiosity to the sinister and more relevant crime of the 21st century, the terrorist attack in NYC and Washington on September 11, 2001.

My conclusions about 9/11 are that it was an "inside job" from the title of JFK researcher Jim Marrs book Crossfire. It appears to me that there are many similarities in Piper's thesis to our current geopolitical situation unfolding in the Middle East with sabre rattling from Washington DC against Iran's peaceful ambition to acquire nuclear energy and/or nuclear weapons. The Iraq war was launched based upon 9/11 and the fearr of Saddam's ability to set off a nuclear bomb in the heart of Israel.

After JFK's death, Israel is the primary country in the Middle East with nuclear weapons and the potential willingness to use them in the "Sampson" scenario or the currently discussed nuclear strike on Iran's underground research facilites (with bunker buster, B61-11 bombs in Israel's arsenal and tactical nukes per Cheney's CONPLAN 8002).

[Mark Stapleton]

It may, I fear, be too much to hope for a rational debate in this forum about the theory expounded in Michael Collins Piper's Final Judgment.

Zionists - 'left' and 'right' - will make sure it doesn't happen, by foul and diversionary behaviour well documented already in this lengthy thread.

Since February 2006, however, Piper has had a regular radio show on RBN.

The show is fully archived and downloads are free - go HERE.

Forum members may therefore judge for themselves whether Piper, on air, is knowledgeable and credible - or whether to believe the highly negative portrayal emanating from the likes of Gratz and Colby.

Several recent shows focused on the JFK assassination and may be of particular interest for that reason.

Sid,

From listening to Piper's radio program, it's obvious the guy is not the fanatical bogeyman that preservers of 'official history' would have us believe.

I plan to listen to his recent programs which deal specifically with the assassination and I agree with you that members with a genuine interest in the JFK case would be well advised to hear him out, although he's not an accomplished radio broadcaster.

Final Judgement has yet to be effectively refuted, IMO, and it remains the most likely explanation for the crime of the century. Israel and its American supporters were the driving force, aided and abetted by powerful forces within America who where also anxious to see an end to this dangerous experiment in geuine democracy.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

After completing Mr. Pipers book and occasionally listening to his RBN internet radio show it is apparent to me that Final Judgement presents a credible thesis explaining the events and causes for the death of JFK that sunny morning in Dealey Plaza.

Noveber 22nd 1963 was not a sunny morning in Dallas and JFK was murdered in the afternoon (at precisely 12.30 P.M. Central Standard Time)

The rest of your post is equally erronious and is obviously fuelled by anti-semitism and ignorance of the facts of the case.

Edited October 22, 2006 by J. Raymond Carroll

[Mark Stapleton]

After completing Mr. Pipers book and occasionally listening to his RBN internet radio show it is apparent to me that Final Judgement presents a credible thesis explaining the events and causes for the death of JFK that sunny morning in Dealey Plaza.

Noveber 22nd 1963 was not a sunny morning in Dallas and JFK was murdered in the afternoon (at precisely 12.30 P.M. Central Standard Time)

The rest of your post is equally erronious and is obviously fuelled by anti-semitism and ignorance of the facts of the case.

Mr. Carroll,

Talk about a nit picking objection! After an early shower or two, it became fine and sunny as the time for the motorcade approached. The motorcade was conducted in blazing sunshine.

The rest of your post is a ridiculous rant.

Edited October 22, 2006 by Mark Stapleton

[Guest]

The rest of your post is a ridiculous rant.

Excluding the reference to your well documented anti semitism of course.

[Michael Hogan]

The rest of your post is a ridiculous rant.

Excluding the reference to your well documented anti semitism of course.

This from someone who professes to be an educator.... There was no reference whatsoever to Mark Stapleton in the aforementioned post. Walker was in such a hurry to slur Mark, he apparently saw no need to be accurate.

[Pat Speer]

My two cents on Piper and his theory... While he has successfully demonstrated that it is a possible theory, his theory is nowhere near as probable as a theory with the mob and anti-Castro Cubans at center stage. The speculation that Israel felt JFK's opposition to their having a bomb was worthy of a death sentence is basically unsupported, to my knowledge. Are there tapes of Israeli leaders discussing how best to kill Kennedy? Did credible sources admit their involvement to their families or personal attorneys? It seems clear that Piper's own feelings about Israel crept into his theory. This doesn't make his book unworthy of our attention. Like the Warren Report and Case Closed, and most every assassination-related book, however, one should read it with the understanding that it is slanted to fit an agenda.

I have yet to read it, but will do so when I stumble across a cheap copy.

[Guest]

The rest of your post is a ridiculous rant.

Excluding the reference to your well documented anti semitism of course.

This from someone who professes to be an educator.....

I am one.... and it is Mr Walker to the likes of you.