Edwin Walker

[Paul Trejo]

Today marks the 51st anniversary of the murder of President John F. Kennedy.

When I review my notes on my initial interest in JFK research, about twenty years ago, after viewing Oliver Stone's film, JFK, I notice that I had first of all turned to the British philosopher, Bertrand Russell, for his insight into the JFK murder.

Few today remember that Bertrand Russell was among the first critics of the US government handling of the JFK murder, and was in 1964 one of the first critics of the Warren Commission.

To put this into perspective, we must remember that Bertrand Russell was 91 years old when JFK was murdered. That means that Russell was quite old when he attacked the logical contradictions of the JFK case. Russell also started a society in England to track the case, and before Russell himself handed the work over to others, (being quite old), he pointed directly to Mark Lane as perhaps the most able, rational and promising of the JFK researchers in 1966.

It may be worthwhile, on this 51st anniversary of the JFK murder, to review Bertrand Russell's famous "Sixteen Questions" about the JFK assassination. So, I'll present them in their original form here, today, and then starting tomorrow, I'll propose some answers to some of these questions. Here are the questions:

---------------- BEGIN -- BERTRAND RUSSELL'S 16 QUESTIONS (1964) ----------------

1. Why were all the members of the Warren Commission closely connected with the US Government?

2. If, as we are told, Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin, where is the issue of national security?

3. If the Government is so certain of its case, why has it conducted all its inquiries in the strictest secrecy?

4. Why did the Warren Commission not establish a panel to deal with the question of who killed President John F. Kennedy?

5. Why have so many liberals abandoned their own responsibility to a Commission whose circumstances they refuse to examine?

6. Why did the authorities follow many persons as potential assassins and fail to observe Oswald’s entry into the book depository building while allegedly carrying a rifle over three feet long?

7. Why was the President’s route changed at the last minute to take him past Oswald’s place of work?

8. Why has the medical evidence concerning the President’s death been altered out of recognition?

9. What is the evidence to substantiate the allegation that the President was shot from behind?

10. Why has the FBI refused to publish what could be the most reliable piece of evidence in the whole case [photographs taken of JFK’s vehicle just before and during the shooting]?

11. How is it that millions of people have been misled by complete forgeries [of photos of the murder weapon] in the press?

12. Why was the result of the paraffin test [on Oswald’s face and hands] altered before being announced by the authorities?

13. Why was the only description of [Patrolman] Tippitt’s killer deliberately omitted by the police from the affidavit of the sole eyewitness?

14. Why was Oswald’s description in connection with the murder of Patrolman Tippitt broadcast over Dallas police radio at 12:43 p.m. on November 22, when Tippitt was not shot until 1:06 p.m.?

15. How was it possible for Earl Warren to forecast that [wife] Marina Oswald’s evidence would be exactly the reverse of what she had previously testified?

16. How does a District Attorney of [Henry] Wade’s great experience account for all the extraordinary changes in evidence and testimony which he has announced during the Oswald case?

----------------- END -- BERTRAND RUSSELL'S 16 QUESTIONS (1964) ----------------

In my view, these sixteen questions can all be illuminated by the theory that Ex-General Edwin Walker was KNOWN by the US Government to be the leader of the plot to murder JFK.

I'll spread out my arguments over the next few days.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 23, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Mark Knight]

Paul Trejo, how much do we know about Oswald's ability to speak Spanish? Was he fluent? Could he speak Spanish at all?

I ask this because I think it bears on the ability of Walker and Banister to "convince" Oswald that his fake FPCC chapter would get him into Cuba. Obviously, if Oswald thought he was going to get a chance to travel to Cuba and kill Castro, wouldn't it also be logical to believe that he'd need to know what was being said around him, in order to know he wasn't walking into a trap?

And wouldn't a high level of fluency in Spanish also have perhaps helped him make his case at the Cuban embassy in Mexico City? And wouldn't Oswald have, somewhere down the line, figured all this out?

Or was Oswald too stupid to know that Cuba's language is Spanish, as is Mexico's? If Oswald really was that stupid, and spoke little or no Spanish, then are you saying the reason he became the patsy was because he actually WAS that stupid?

Other than Russian, I've heard little about Oswald's linguistic skills...and even the reports about how well he spoke Russian were highly contradictory.

So what information do you have on Oswald's ability, or lack thereof, in speaking Spanish? This might be a little detail that might either cement your case, or show a huge crack in it.

[Paul Trejo]

Paul Trejo, how much do we know about Oswald's ability to speak Spanish? Was he fluent? Could he speak Spanish at all?

I ask this because I think it bears on the ability of Walker and Banister to "convince" Oswald that his fake FPCC chapter would get him into Cuba. Obviously, if Oswald thought he was going to get a chance to travel to Cuba and kill Castro, wouldn't it also be logical to believe that he'd need to know what was being said around him, in order to know he wasn't walking into a trap?

And wouldn't a high level of fluency in Spanish also have perhaps helped him make his case at the Cuban embassy in Mexico City? And wouldn't Oswald have, somewhere down the line, figured all this out?

Or was Oswald too stupid to know that Cuba's language is Spanish, as is Mexico's? If Oswald really was that stupid, and spoke little or no Spanish, then are you saying the reason he became the patsy was because he actually WAS that stupid?

Other than Russian, I've heard little about Oswald's linguistic skills...and even the reports about how well he spoke Russian were highly contradictory.

So what information do you have on Oswald's ability, or lack thereof, in speaking Spanish? This might be a little detail that might either cement your case, or show a huge crack in it.

Well, Mark, it's a good challenge. In order for my theory to hold I must argue that Lee Harvey Oswald would be willing to follow Guy Banister to the ends of the earth.

Insofar as Oswald actually did become the patsy for the JFK murder, this also poses a problem for those who believe he was a CIA operative -- how could any CIA operative be so stupid? (Tommy Graves first articulated that strong question last year, and I doubt that Joan Mellen's theory can answer it well.)

I would only clarify one small part of your question, Mark -- you say this "bears on the ability of Walker and Banister to convince Oswald". In my view, Oswald never guessed that Edwin Walker was personally involved with Guy Banister. This was kept hidden from Oswald as far as possible.

Instead, in NOLA Oswald would look up to Clay Shaw and Guy Banister. Clay Shaw was rich. Oswald was tired of being poor. When in Dallas, Lee Harvey Oswald only bonded solidly with one man, namely, George De Mohrenschildt, a rich, international playboy who'd married a ballet dancer. Oswald liked hanging with rich George.

Given this psychology, when in New Orleans, Oswald would gravitate toward Clay Shaw, the millionaire businessman who owned the Trade Mart. Many witnesses, both black and white, saw Oswald in Clinton, Louisiana with David Ferrie and Clay Shaw driving up in a limousine. They were going to help Oswald find a job in a hospital -- ostensibly to extend his cover -- probably to link Oswald's name with a mental hospital. (Oswald went through all the motions to apply for a job, but he backed out at the last minute when he figured out that it was a mental hospital, and it gave him the creeps.)

I point this out because it shows the lengths to which Oswald was ready to follow (not Walker, but) Clay Shaw and Guy Banister. Still, Oswald knew that Clay Shaw's role was the rich money source, and that at his paramilitary level his Commanding Officer was Guy Banister. Oswald clearly operated out of Guy Banister's offices.

So, Oswald was taking direct orders from Guy Banister. In this I agree with Jim Garrison. Also, Guy Banister's principal goal that summer was to FRAME Oswald as a Communist, to serve him up as the Patsy for the JFK murder.

Oswald didn't know this.

Therefore, for Guy Banister to complete his mission to FRAME Oswald he absolutely required his own "cover story." There had to be a good reason for Guy Banister to ask Lee Harvey Oswald to walk deeper and deeper into that sheep-dipping pool, so that Oswald would keep doing it, month after month.

The most obvious "cover story" that Guy Banister could tell Oswald would be the one that was closest to the truth -- namely, that Banister was deeply involved in the plot to kill Fidel Castro.

From JFK research I have read, Guy Banister was at some point involved in the official "Operation Mongoose," which was NOT a CIA operation, but was RFK's own operation to kill Fidel Castro (c.f. Lamar Waldron). Also, Guy Banister was working closely with the Cuban Exile paramilitary community in New Orleans -- which was quite large -- on many projects to kill Fidel Castro, including Operation 40, and groups like Alpha 66, DRE, CRC, INCA and many more.

The offices of Guy Banister were overflowing with Cuban Exiles associated with his own organization, "AntiCommunist League of the Carribean."

So, the "cover story" that Guy Banister, Clay Shaw and David Ferrie had ready-to-hand would be that they were involved in a plot to kill Fidel Castro -- and so they were inviting Lee Harvey Oswald to take part in that.

The CIA was certainly involved in this operation, as well. David Atlee Phillips was directly involved with both Operation 40 and Alpha 66, and was committed to killing Fidel Castro, so it is no surprise that Alpha 66 leader Antonio Veciana met Phillips with Oswald in Dallas one day.

In other words -- the environment which Lee Harvey Oswald would see in New Orleans would EASILY convince anybody that Guy Banister, Clay Shaw and David Ferrie were dedicated to killing Fidel Castro, and would even hire a poor Marine like Oswald as a mercenary.

The "cover story" was just about perfect.

Now -- from what I've read, Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't speak Spanish. So, how would Oswald let himself be talked into sneaking into Cuba to kill Fidel Castro?

You're right to this extent, Mark -- the idea of sending a non-Spanish-speaking Oswald into Cuba to kill Fidel Castro was plainly stupid. So how can I respond?

(1) My first response is that this makes it virtually certain that the CIA was never part of Banister's plan. The CIA probably watched with amusement as the plan unfolded, but would keep their distance. Naturally, the CIA favored any plan to kill Fidel Castro, but their own methods were more scientific.

(2) My second response is that Oswald had his own doubts. No doubt he asked that question -- why me? But his FRAMERS had a ready response. "You're PERFECT for this," they would argue. "Look at how you faked your way into the USSR! You cried, you moaned, and you even slashed your wrist! You're a GENIUS boy! You can't lose!"

If Oswald had persisted his doubts, his Framers could (and probably did) say something like this: "Don't worry. Fidel Castro speaks a little English, and lots of Cubans speak a little English. Besides, lots of FPCC officers speak little or no Spanish. The important thing is that FPCC officers get the red-carpet treatment when they visit Cuba!"

Remember, too, that Lee Harvey Oswald is reported to have tried to concoct his own plan for getting into Cuba -- by hijacking an airplane. Marina and also Ron Lewis cite this short-lived obsession of Oswald's. Oswald tried to convince Ron Lewis to hijack the plane with him -- but Ron Lewis convinced Oswald that since Cuba's only 90 miles from Florida, that hijacking a single-passenger plane would be a better idea.

Remember, too, that Oswald was reported to have sat in his kitchen in New Orleans one night, and just cried.

(3) My third response is that Lee Harvey Oswald desperately wanted to a full-time job in the CIA or some Intelligence agency. He truly believed that he was associating with actual CIA Officers when he worked with Clay Shaw, David Ferrie, Jack S. Martin and Fred Crisman.

Joan Mellen presents these four men as CIA -- so even this scholar believes their "cover story" down to this day. Yet these were at best low-level CIA "assets" and more likely just street-level riff-raff who pretended to be in the CIA.

My point here is, that if educated people like Jim Garrison and Joan Mellen could be convinced that these NOLA characters were in the CIA, then Lee Harvey Oswald doesn't look so stupid to believe that they were CIA.

(4) My fourth response is the summary of all this. Guy Banister and his NOLA characters put up their "cover story" to Lee Harvey Oswald of "Operation 40" and "Operation Mongoose" and so on, and worked on Oswald every day to convince him that "you can do it!"

Oswald did consider other options, but blind obedience to Guy Banister seemed to be his best option, because by now Oswald was *desperate* for a job in the CIA. He had a second baby on the way. He had to risk more to get more.

So in conclusion, Mark, I don't think we have to say Oswald was "too stupid," as you put it. But we do have to admit that Oswald was "stupid enough" to believe his FRAMERS.

Garrison and Mellen were simply wrong about the CIA being in charge of the JFK murder. They mistook liars like Ferrie, Martin and Crisman to be CIA Agents. So it wasn't too far-fetched for Lee Harvey Oswald to also believe it.

Since Oswald was desparate for a CIA job, he would be obedient, take orders, and just salute and do what he was told.

So -- to some degree, Oswald became the Patsy because he was FOOLED. But many JFK researchers were also FOOLED -- and also by the same people.

It's a good challenge, Mark, and I probably haven't covered all the details -- yet I think that under the circumstances, the pieces still fit, and Guy Banister remains the principal NOLA plotter, just as Edwin Walker remains the principal Dallas plotter.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 23, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Steven Gaal]

Oswald clearly operated out of Guy Banister's offices.

So, Oswald was taking direct orders from Guy Banister. // PAUL Trejo

As for the RUMOR that the CIA was behind the attack on De Gaulle, you GRAB for it -- but it's only a RUMOR. ' //Trejo

=================================================================

(Gaal) Dulles himself was allied with the plotters to assassinate French President Charles de Gaulle.(see PDF file below). Ruby's CIA connections see post # 633 this thread. Ruby knew CIA asset involved in the assassination operation.of de Gaulle. Bannisters lawyer Gatlin was part of the de Gaulle plot. The de Gaulle plot a CIA plot. Bannister took directions from CIA asset GATLIN. De Gaulle plot from the highest levels of the CIA thus GATLIN connected to Bannister from the highest levels of CIA and thus Oswald's actions directed from highest levels CIA.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Armstrong

On March 11, 1959, Dallas FBI agent Charles Flynn wrote, "on the basis of preliminary contacts and information developed to date, I recommend the captioned individual (Jack Ruby) for informant development." Flynn further wrote, "PCI [Potential Criminal Informant] advised he was willing to assist Bureau by supplying criminal information, on a confidential basis, which comes to his attention. On November 6, 1959, Flynn wrote, "contacts (with Ruby) have been negative to date, it is felt that further attempts to develop this man would be fruitless."

On March 15, 1959 Ruby telephoned and met with CIA-connected gun-runner Thomas Eli Davis III in Beaumont, TX. A year earlier, in June, 1958, Davis received a sentence of five years of probation for robbing a bank. While on probation Davis worked for the Agency training anti-Castro units in Florida. Soon, Ruby and Davis were supplying arms and munitions to Anti-Castro Cubans, apparently without the fear of arrest.

NOTE: When JFK was assassinated, Davis was in jail in Algiers, charged with running guns to a secret army terrorist movement then attempting to assassinate French President Charles de Gaulle. Davis was released from jail through the intervention of the CIA’s foreign agent code-named “QJ/WIN," who was identified by the top-secret CIA Inspector General’s Report as the “principle asset” in the Agency’s assassination program known as ZR/RIFLE.

After Ruby's arrest for killing Oswald, his defense attorney (Tom Howard) asked Ruby if he could think of anything that might damage his defense. Ruby responded and said there would be a problem if a man by the name of "Davis" should come up. Davis was later identified as Thomas Eli Davis III, a CIA-connected gun-runner and “soldier of fortune." In December, 1963 the Moroccan National Security Police informed the US State Department that Davis was arrested for an attempted sale of firearms to a minor. When Davis was searched, the police found “a letter in his handwriting which referred in passing to Oswald and to the Kennedy assassination.” Ruby told Howard that “he had been involved with Davis, who was a CIA connected gunrunner entangled in anti-Castro efforts and that he (Ruby) had intended to begin a regular gun-running business with Davis”. Ruby warned Howard about this connection, and feared that if it were to be revealed by either an investigative reporter or a witness it would blow open the CIA's role in JFK’s assassination. IT IS MPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT RUBY TOLD TOM HOWARD ABOUT HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH A CIA OPERATIVE. Tom Howard died of a heart attack within a year at age 48. The doctor, without an autopsy, said that he may have suffered a heart attack. But some reporters and friends thought Howard had been murdered.

+++++++++++

############

• De Gaulle plot from CIA thus GATLIN CIA

see

• General Maurice Challe, protégé of CIA director Allen Dulles, plot against De Gaulle (PDF)

http://coat.ncf.ca/o...es/51_22-23.pdf

+++++++++++++++++

William Turner, Rearview Mirror (2001)

-

That left Maurice Brooks Gatlin, Sr., an attorney associated with Banister, on Brooks's list of key Minutemen in Louisiana. According to Brooks, Gatlin served as legal counsel to the ACLC. In fact, Brooks had been a kind of protege of Gatlin. The attorney's passport was stamped with visas of countries around the world. In Brooks's estimation, he was a "transporter" for the CIA. On one occasion Gatlin bodaciously told Brooks, "I have pretty good connections. Stick with me-I'll give you a license to kill." Brooks became a firm believer in 1962 when Gatlin displayed a thick wad of bills, saying he had $ioo,ooo of CIA money earmarked for a French reactionary clique planning to assassinate General de Gaulle. Shortly thereafter Gatlin flew to Paris, and shortly after that came the Secret Army Organization's abortive ambush of the French president. But Gatlin as well was beyond Garrison's reach. In 1964 he fell or was pushed from the sixth floor of the Panama Hotel in Panama, dying instantly.

Back in 1967, the CIA’s own Inspector General produced a 133-page internal report that implicated “every living CIA officer who has served as chief of the clandestine service—-Allen Dulles, Richard Bissell, Richard Helms, and Desmond FitzGerald—in conspiracies to commit murder,” writes investigative journalist Tim Weiner in his book “Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA”(Anchor Books).

SLATE By Ray Fisman

In 1951, Jacobo Árbenz Gúzman became Guatemala's second democratically elected president. Árbenz's authoritarian predecessors had been very sympathetic to American business interests, particularly those of the United Fruit Co. (now Chiquita), which had bought up land titles on the cheap from Guatemala's corrupt elite for its ever-expanding banana empire. Once in office, Presidente Árbenz sought to take it all back, nationalizing UFC's Guatemalan assets and redistributing them to the poor.

But UFC had friends in very high places—the assistant secretary of state for inter-American affairs, John Moor Cabot, was the brother of UFC President Thomas Cabot. The secretary of state himself, John Foster Dulles, had done legal work for UFC, and his brother Allen Dulles was director of the CIA and also on UFC's board. Thanks to the Freedom of Information Act, we now know that the various Cabots and Dulleses had a series of top-secret meetings in which they decided that Árbenz had to go and sponsored a coup that drove Árbenz from office in 1954.

=

(Gaal)

GATLIN wrote letters to the assistant secretary of state for inter-American affairs, John Moor Cabot (above) about the so-called communist activities of Guatemala's Jacobo Árbenz Gúzman. Did Gatlin appear on the radar of CABOT/DULLES as a possible intel asset in the 1950s ??

===================================================================

Source: Excerpts from “France/Algeria 1960s: L’état, c’est

la CIA,” Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions

since WWII, 1995.

================================================

By William Blum, former U.S. State

Department employee who resigned in 1967

in opposition to the Vietnam war.

=================================================

On 22 April, 1961, four French generals

in Algeria seized power in an at

tempt to maintain the country’s union

with France. The putsch [coup d’état] which

held out for only four days, was a direct confrontation

with French President Charles de

Gaulle, who had dramatically proclaimed a

policy leading “not to an Algeria governed from

France, but to an Algerian Algeria.”

The next day, the leftist Italian newspaper,

Il Paese, stated that “It is not by chance

that some people in Paris are accusing the

American secret service headed by Allen Dulles

of having participated in the plot of the four

‘ultra’ generals.” Dulles expressed the opinion

that “This particular myth was a Communist

plant, pure and simple.”

The Washington Star said some of the

rumors were launched by “minor officials at

the Elysee Palace” who gave reporters “to understand

that the generals’ plot was backed by

strongly anti-communist elements in the U.S.

government and military services.”

Whatever its origins, the story spread

rapidly around the world, and the French Foreign Office

refused to refute it. Le Monde asserted in a front-page editorial

on 28 April that “the behavior of the U.S. during the

recent crisis was not particularly skillful. It seems established

that American agents more or less encouraged

[Maurice] Challe [the leader of the putsch].”

Reports from all sources agreed that if the CIA had

been involved in the putsch, it was for two reasons:

(1) the concern that if Algeria weas granted independence,

“communists” would come to power, being those in the

ranks of the National Liberation Front which had been

fighting the French Army in Algeria for several years;

(2) the hope that it would precipitate the downfall of de

Gaulle, an end desired because he was a major stumbling

block to U.S. aspirations concerning NATO. He

refused to incorporate French troops into an integrated

military command and he opposed exclusive U.S. control

over NATO’s nuclear weapons.

Washington Post columnist Marquis Childs said that

the French were so shocked by the generals’ coup that they

had to find a scapegoat. He also quoted “one of the highest

officials of the French government” as saying: “when you

have so many hundreds of agents in every part of the world,

it is not to be wondered at that some of them should have

got in touch with the generals in Algiers” (5 May).

James Reston wrote in the New York Times that the

CIA: “was involved in an embarrassing liaison with the

anti-Gaullist officers who staged last week’s insurrection

in Algiers ... [the Bay of Pigs and Algerian events have]

increased the feeling in the White House that the CIA has

gone beyond the bounds of an objective intelligence-gathering

agency and has become the advocate of men and policies

that have embarrassed the Administration” (29 April).

In May 1961, L’Express, the widely-read French

weekly, published what was perhaps the first detailed account

of the affair. Their Algerian correspondent, Claude

Krief, reported: “Both in Paris and Washington the facts

are now known, though they will never be publicly admitted.

In private, the highest French personalities make no

secret of it. What they say is this: ‘The CIA played a direct

part in the Algiers coup, and certainly weighed heavily on

the decision taken by ex-general Challe to start his putsch.’”

At a Washington luncheon in 1960, Jacques

Soustelle, the former Governor-General of Algeria who had

made public his disagreement with

de Gaulle’s Algeria policy, met

with CIA officials, including Richard

Bissell, head of covert operations.

According to Krief,

Soustelle convinced CIA officials

that Algeria would become,

through de Gaulle’s blundering, “a

Soviet base.” This lunch became

something of a cause célèbre in the

speculation concerning the CIA’s

possible role.

Krief also said that a clandestine

meeting in Madrid on 12

April, 1961, included “various foreign

agents, including members of

the CIA and the Algiers conspirators,

who disclosed their plans to

the CIA men.” The Americans were reported to have angrily

complained that de Gaulle’s policy was “paralyzing

NATO and rendering the defense of Europe impossible,”

and assured the generals that if they and their followers

succeeded, Washington would recognize the new Algerian

government within 48 hours.

Between 1958 and the mid-1960s, there were some 30 serious

assassination attempts upon the life of Charles de Gaulle,

in addition to any number of planned attempts which didn’t

advance much beyond the planning stage. In at least one of

the attempts, the CIA may have been a co-conspirator

against the French president.

++++++++==========================

This government rumor , oops I mean documents re assassination de Gaulle

http://www.foia.cia...._0000011788.pdf

+++++++++++++
BUT WAIT !!!!! DULLES has an opinion on the de Gaulle assassination attempt.

====

Phil Dragoo

The Generals' Plot Against DeGaulle

The next day, the leftist Italian newspaper,

Il

Paese

, stated that �It is not by chance

that some people in Paris are accusing the

American secret service headed by Allen Dulles

of having participated in the plot of the four

�ultra� generals.� Dulles expressed the opinion

that �This particular myth was a Communist

plant, pure and simple.�

http://coat.ncf.ca/o....s/51_22-23.pdf

))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

(Gaal) Dulles himself was allied with the plotters to assassinate French President Charles de Gaulle.(see PDF file .

General Maurice Challe, protégé of CIA director Allen Dulles, plot against De Gaulle

(

PDF

))

Ruby's CIA connections see post # 633 this thread. Ruby knew CIA asset involved in the assassination operation.of de Gaulle. Bannisters lawyer Gatlin was part of the de Gaulle plot. The de Gaulle plot is a CIA plot. Bannister took directions from CIA asset GATLIN.

De Gaulle plot from the highest levels of the CIA thus GATLIN connected to Bannister from the highest levels of CIA and thus Oswald's actions directed from highest levels of the CIA.

[Mark Knight]

Paul, you missed my point.

If Oswald truly thought he was going to get into Cuba and have an opportunity to kill Castro, then certainly he had to know that Castro had bodyguards...bodyguards who spoke Spanish. If the bodyguards were talking among themselves in the presence of Oswald, a lack of knowledge of Spanish would be a STUPID, and likely fatal, mistake.

So unless Oswald was trying to learn Spanish--and there's NO evidence that he was, as compared to his learning of the Russian language. He was smart enough to know he needed to learn Russian to go to Russia, for whatever purpose you believe he went to Russia. But he wasn't smart enough to know that he needed to learn Spanish to go to Cuba on a "mission" that was life-or-death?

I have a hard time buying that premise...unless you're trying to say that it was a suicide mission, and Oswald not only knew it was a suicide mission, but agreed to do it anyway. That's awfully hard to sell, Paul.

[Paul Trejo]

Paul, you missed my point.

If Oswald truly thought he was going to get into Cuba and have an opportunity to kill Castro, then certainly he had to know that Castro had bodyguards...bodyguards who spoke Spanish. If the bodyguards were talking among themselves in the presence of Oswald, a lack of knowledge of Spanish would be a STUPID, and likely fatal, mistake.

So unless Oswald was trying to learn Spanish--and there's NO evidence that he was, as compared to his learning of the Russian language. He was smart enough to know he needed to learn Russian to go to Russia, for whatever purpose you believe he went to Russia. But he wasn't smart enough to know that he needed to learn Spanish to go to Cuba on a "mission" that was life-or-death?

I have a hard time buying that premise...unless you're trying to say that it was a suicide mission, and Oswald not only knew it was a suicide mission, but agreed to do it anyway. That's awfully hard to sell, Paul.

OK, Mark, I'll try again.

Yes, I say that Oswald truly thought that he was going to get into Cuba to get the opportunity to kill Fidel Castro. This is not far-fetched, since at least a dozen other hot-shots associated with RFK and the CIA were similarly involved. Johnny Roselli was one. Marita Lorentz was another. Rolando Cubela (AMLASH, with his Black Leaf-40) was another.

You say that if Castro's bodyguards were talking Spanish in front of Oswald (who didn't speak Spanish) then that could be FATAL for Oswald -- but you don't offer the necessary details.

Lots of FPCC officers from the USA could only speak a few words of Spanish. Our own Harry Dean is a case in point. Most of the FPCC officers in the USA were Communists from the big cities -- and their value to Fidel Castro was the ton of money that their organizations brought to Fidel. Their Spanish language skills were clearly secondary.

Fidel Castro himself spoke some English. So, it wasn't a deal-breaker, the way you portray it, Mark. You're trying to make the Spanish language into the linch-pin of your argument -- but it isn't strong enough.

Also, it wasn't a suicide mission -- because the USA doesn't roll that way. Besides, Oswald liked to read 007 novels -- and he liked to believe in his own potential heroism.

More to the point, however, let's take a giant step back and review the Big Picture:

(1) Guy Banister & Company weren't stupid enough to believe that Oswald was really going to get an INSTANT VISA to Cuba based only on a month's worth of newspaper clippings naming Oswald as an FPCC officer in NOLA.

(2) Guy Banister & Company only had to lie to Oswald, and persuade HIM that they truly believed it.

(3) On that basis (and with the promise of a huge cash reward and a job in the CIA) Oswald would be persuaded to believe it and to act upon it.

(4) Oswald knew it was risky, but he was assured that his "CIA" confederates would be giving him adequate cover. He wanted to believe them because he desperately wanted that job in the CIA.

(5) For one thing, David Ferrie was probably presented to Oswald as his "getaway pilot".

(6) For another thing, we don't need to say Oswald would use a gun. Like AMLASH and Marita Lorentz, Oswald might have been told that he only had to sneak some poison to Castro. (Judyth Vary Baker suggests that Oswald was well aware of the Ferrie plot to develop such a poison.)

(7) Banister's plan didn't have to be workable -- it only had to convince ONE person -- Lee Harvey Oswald.

(8) Guy Banister & Company knew very well that Lee Harvey Oswald would be laughed out of the Cuban and USSR consulates in Mexico City. But Oswald himself was clueless about this.

(9) The proof is shown in Oswald's bizarre behavior in Mexico City. Oswald acted like an idiot. He not only demanded an Instant Visa to Cuba based only on these newspaper clippings (and an obviously fake Communist Party card), when he was turned down he demanded to talk to the manager, and then he shouted, and then he went to the USSR consulate, and then he shouted some more, and then he cried, and then he went back with a loaded pistol. Then he was escorted out with an empty pistol and his head hung low.

(9.1) There is no sensible way to explain such STUPID behavior except to admit that Lee Harvey Oswald was following ORDERS. He was probably drilled with the firm belief that the Mexican consulate clerks were STUPID and could easily be FOOLED.

(9.2) Oswald was probably told that he was "specially" selected because of his acting abilities as proved in his 1959 entry into the USSR. Perhaps he could threaten to slash his wrists again.

(9.3) Oswald was fully assured by Guy Banister & Company that this plan would work. Nothing could go wrong. Everything Guy Banister had told Oswald from May 1963 through August 1963 had worked out 100%. Oswald trusted Guy Banister (his key FRAMER) with all his heart.

(10) Guy Banister & Company knew Oswald didn't have a chance of getting into Cuba that weekend. They were probably rolling on the ground in laughter on the days Lee Harvey Oswald was in Mexico City.

(11) The payoff in Mexico City was that the FBI and the CIA now had photographs of Oswald at the consulates.

(11.1) Banister's REAL purpose for Oswald's Mexico City sojourn wasn't REALLY to kill Fidel Castro -- it was to FRAME Lee Harvey Oswald as a dangerous Communist who was working closely within an International Communist Conspiracy.

(11.2) Furthermore, David Morales and his Mexican team IMPERSONATED Oswald and Sylvia Duran over the bugged telephone line between the Cuban consulate and the USSR consulate, dropping the name of Valery Kostikov in the context of Lee Harvey Oswald, to ensure that this CIA record would get a red-star next to it.

(11.3) If not for the CIA mole-hunt to find the IMPERSONATORS, David Morales' plot might have worked -- and the USA might have been convinced to invade Cuba in retaliation for the murder of JFK.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 24, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Mark Knight]

All right, Paul...I'll spell it out for you.

If Castro's Spanish-speaking bodyguards are speaking among themselves, and if they say something on the order of, "If this guy makes one move, kill him," --of if Fidel says something like that to the bodyguards, and Ozzie doesn't understand-- that could be FATAL if you don't understand the language.

You DO understand the language I'm using NOW, right?

So you're basically saying that Oswald was apparently TOO STUPID to understand THIS point...yet he thought he'd be a great candidate for the job of taking out Castro?

To me, that's where the story about Oswald believing he'd get close enough to Castro to kill him falls apart. He wasn't sent to Russia to kill anyone, yet he knew he'd have to learn the language. But you expect us to believe that he thought he could get into Cuba and kill Castro, escape, and be hailed as a hero, without speaking any Spanish?

Apparently you either believe that OSWALD was a special kind of stupid, or that WE are. And I really hope it's the former, and not the latter.

[Thomas Graves]

All right, Paul...I'll spell it out for you.

If Castro's Spanish-speaking bodyguards are speaking among themselves, and if they say something on the order of, "If this guy makes one move, kill him," --of if Fidel says something like that to the bodyguards, and Ozzie doesn't understand-- that could be FATAL if you don't understand the language.

You DO understand the language I'm using NOW, right?

So you're basically saying that Oswald was apparently TOO STUPID to understand THIS point...yet he thought he'd be a great candidate for the job of taking out Castro?

To me, that's where the story about Oswald believing he'd get close enough to Castro to kill him falls apart. He wasn't sent to Russia to kill anyone, yet he knew he'd have to learn the language. But you expect us to believe that he thought he could get into Cuba and kill Castro, escape, and be hailed as a hero, without speaking any Spanish?

Apparently you either believe that OSWALD was a special kind of stupid, or that WE are. And I really hope it's the former, and not the latter.

Mark,

But don't you see...???

Oswald thought he was going to speak Russian with Castro and his bodyguards!

Either that, or that he was gonna shoot em in the head from a sixth floor window with a Mannlicher-Carcano!

LOL

--Tommy

Edited November 24, 2014 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

All right, Paul...I'll spell it out for you.

If Castro's Spanish-speaking bodyguards are speaking among themselves, and if they say something on the order of, "If this guy makes one move, kill him," --of if Fidel says something like that to the bodyguards, and Ozzie doesn't understand-- that could be FATAL if you don't understand the language.

You DO understand the language I'm using NOW, right?

So you're basically saying that Oswald was apparently TOO STUPID to understand THIS point...yet he thought he'd be a great candidate for the job of taking out Castro?

To me, that's where the story about Oswald believing he'd get close enough to Castro to kill him falls apart. He wasn't sent to Russia to kill anyone, yet he knew he'd have to learn the language. But you expect us to believe that he thought he could get into Cuba and kill Castro, escape, and be hailed as a hero, without speaking any Spanish?

Apparently you either believe that OSWALD was a special kind of stupid...

Well, Mark, I understand the words you're saying -- but I don't think they have the force of argument that you think they have.

The people who were setting up Oswald never expected it to get that far.

You can understand that, right?

But you want to focus on what Lee Harvey Oswald would have considered inside his own mind. OK, it's worth an experiment.

When Oswald was promised (say) $100,000 and a job in the CIA if he would help Guy Banister and his fake "CIA" in NOLA kill Fidel Castro...let's try to peer into Lee Harvey Oswald's mind:

(1) Lee Harvey Oswald didn't plan on making any false moves. He thought highly of himself as a potential spy and even a double-agent spy, because of his work in the USSR, when he was only 20 years old.

(2) When he was 20, Oswald faked his way into the USSR by play-acting his role as a COMMUNIST SYMPATHIZER. Oswald did it before, and he was convinced that he could do it again.

(3) Granted, before Oswald went to the USSR, he learned Russian quite well. In this trip to Cuba, Oswald wouldn't have time to learn Spanish -- but that was simply of secondary importance.

(4) Oswald simply wasn't afraid of people talking behind his back in Spanish.

(5) Oswald trusted enormously in his own ability to play-act, pretending to be an Officer in the fake FPCC of New Orleans.

(6) Oswald had the dumb idea that he could FAKE his way past the Cuban Consulate -- based only on his claim to be an Officer of the FPCC. (We have proof of this with his Mexico City behavior.)

(7) That in itself proves that Oswald held a much higher opinion of his skills than reality would warrant. (So, yes, one would have to admit that to some degree, Oswald was THAT STUPID. We have the proof in his actual behavior in Mexico City.)

(8) Oswald probably thought (and was probably encouraged to think) that if he could fool the USSR in 1959-1962, then he could also fool some Banana Republic yahoos.

(9) Also, if Oswald was STUPID enough to be fooled by Guy Banister, and if Oswald was STUPID enough to make an ass of himself at the Mexico City consulates, and if Oswald was STUPID enough to think that he could sail through Cuba the same way he sailed through the USSR, then yes -- Oswald was obviously STUPID enough to think that he had the "right stuff" to kill Fidel Castro. It follows.

(10) As for the USSR period, we don't know everything that Oswald did there -- but we do agree (I presume) that Oswald was FOLLOWING ORDERS. He wasn't calling the shots in the USSR.

(11) So, Oswald's foolish behavior in Mexico City showed that he was willing to FOLLOW ORDERS, no matter how ridiculous.

(12) Therefore -- if Oswald was conditioned to FOLLOW Military or Intelligence ORDERS, then if Guy Banister & Company (whom Oswald believed were CIA Officers who could promise him a full-time job) actually TOLD Oswald that he would be part of a carefully planned CIA plot to kill Fidel Castro, then yes, I believe Oswald would have FOLLOWED ORDERS.

(13) Further, we don't know about the details -- how would the murder of Fidel Castro be done? What was the plan to escape? It might have looked good on paper.

(14) Again, it only had to convince Lee Harvey Oswald -- nobody else.

(15) So, the question comes down to this -- were the CIA and the Marines *obsessed* with killing Fidel Castro? They WERE. Then, was Lee Oswald conditioned to FOLLOW ORDERS? He was. Then, was Oswald willing to believe that this plot would work?

(16) Given Oswald's STUPID behavior in Mexico City (based probably on generous offers) we can surmise from this that Oswald would at the very least TRUST that the CIA had a good plan for his participation.

(17) Finally -- we don't know exactly what means were proposed to kill Fidel Castro -- or how many people were promised to be involved in the plot. Oswald might have been told that he had 20 CIA Agents in Cuba who would support him there.

(18) We have good evidence that Harry Dean, a successful FPCC Officer in Chicago, was invited to meet with Fidel Castro PERSONALLY, even though Harry Dean could hardly speak a single sentence in Spanish. So -- IT WAS POSSIBLE.

(19) So, again, Mark, we don't have to say that OSWALD was as STUPID as YOU say he had to be to obey Banister -- but based on Oswald's Mexico City behavior, we have a firm baseline of Oswald's NAIVETE. That seems to me to be Objectively Valid.

Sincerely,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 24, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Steven Gaal]

When Oswald was promised (say) $100,000 and a job in the CIA if he would help Guy Banister and his fake "CIA" // Trejo

++++++++++++++++++++
He already had job with CIA since he was 15.......(GAAL)

==============================================

SEE Whitmey analysis FORTH DECADE Vol 6 #1 Nov 98

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/servlet/PageImage?mode=getPage&fileName=hmat-4thdec-06_0001_0024&pageId=520355&mag=null&monochrome=true&extension=.png&rotatation=default&actualWidth=11952&orientation=portrait

========

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/servlet/PageImage?mode=getPage&fileName=hmat-4thdec-06_0001_0028&pageId=520359&mag=null&monochrome=false&extension=.jpg&rotatation=default&actualWidth=11952&orientation=portrait

========

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/servlet/PageImage?mode=getPage&fileName=hmat-4thdec-06_0001_0002&pageId=520333&mag=null&monochrome=false&extension=.jpg&rotatation=default&actualWidth=11952&orientation=portrait

[Ernie Lazar]

All right, Paul...I'll spell it out for you.

If Castro's Spanish-speaking bodyguards are speaking among themselves, and if they say something on the order of, "If this guy makes one move, kill him," --of if Fidel says something like that to the bodyguards, and Ozzie doesn't understand-- that could be FATAL if you don't understand the language.

You DO understand the language I'm using NOW, right?

So you're basically saying that Oswald was apparently TOO STUPID to understand THIS point...yet he thought he'd be a great candidate for the job of taking out Castro?

To me, that's where the story about Oswald believing he'd get close enough to Castro to kill him falls apart. He wasn't sent to Russia to kill anyone, yet he knew he'd have to learn the language. But you expect us to believe that he thought he could get into Cuba and kill Castro, escape, and be hailed as a hero, without speaking any Spanish?

Apparently you either believe that OSWALD was a special kind of stupid...

Well, Mark, I understand the words you're saying -- but I don't think they have the force of argument that you think they have.

The people who were setting up Oswald never expected it to get that far.

You can understand that, right?

But you want to focus on what Lee Harvey Oswald would have considered inside his own mind. OK, it's worth an experiment.

When Oswald was promised (say) $100,000 and a job in the CIA if he would help Guy Banister and his fake "CIA" in NOLA kill Fidel Castro...let's try to peer into Lee Harvey Oswald's mind:

(1) Lee Harvey Oswald didn't plan on making any false moves. He thought highly of himself as a potential spy and even a double-agent spy, because of his work in the USSR, when he was only 20 years old.

(2) When he was 20, Oswald faked his way into the USSR by play-acting his role as a COMMUNIST SYMPATHIZER. Oswald did it before, and he was convinced that he could do it again.

(3) Granted, before Oswald went to the USSR, he learned Russian quite well. In this trip to Cuba, Oswald wouldn't have time to learn Spanish -- but that was simply of secondary importance.

(4) Oswald simply wasn't afraid of people talking behind his back in Spanish.

(5) Oswald trusted enormously in his own ability to play-act, pretending to be an Officer in the fake FPCC of New Orleans.

(6) Oswald had the dumb idea that he could FAKE his way past the Cuban Consulate -- based only on his claim to be an Officer of the FPCC. (We have proof of this with his Mexico City behavior.)

(7) That in itself proves that Oswald held a much higher opinion of his skills than reality would warrant. (So, yes, one would have to admit that to some degree, Oswald was THAT STUPID. We have the proof in his actual behavior in Mexico City.)

(8) Oswald probably thought (and was probably encouraged to think) that if he could fool the USSR in 1959-1962, then he could also fool some Banana Republic yahoos.

(9) Also, if Oswald was STUPID enough to be fooled by Guy Banister, and if Oswald was STUPID enough to make an ass of himself at the Mexico City consulates, and if Oswald was STUPID enough to think that he could sail through Cuba the same way he sailed through the USSR, then yes -- Oswald was obviously STUPID enough to think that he had the "right stuff" to kill Fidel Castro. It follows.

(10) As for the USSR period, we don't know everything that Oswald did there -- but we do agree (I presume) that Oswald was FOLLOWING ORDERS. He wasn't calling the shots in the USSR.

(11) So, Oswald's foolish behavior in Mexico City showed that he was willing to FOLLOW ORDERS, no matter how ridiculous.

(12) Therefore -- if Oswald was conditioned to FOLLOW Military or Intelligence ORDERS, then if Guy Banister & Company (whom Oswald believed were CIA Officers who could promise him a full-time job) actually TOLD Oswald that he would be part of a carefully planned CIA plot to kill Fidel Castro, then yes, I believe Oswald would have FOLLOWED ORDERS.

(13) Further, we don't know about the details -- how would the murder of Fidel Castro be done? What was the plan to escape? It might have looked good on paper.

(14) Again, it only had to convince Lee Harvey Oswald -- nobody else.

(15) So, the question comes down to this -- were the CIA and the Marines *obsessed* with killing Fidel Castro? They WERE. Then, was Lee Oswald conditioned to FOLLOW ORDERS? He was. Then, was Oswald willing to believe that this plot would work?

(16) Given Oswald's STUPID behavior in Mexico City (based probably on generous offers) we can surmise from this that Oswald would at the very least TRUST that the CIA had a good plan for his participation.

(17) Finally -- we don't know exactly what means were proposed to kill Fidel Castro -- or how many people were promised to be involved in the plot. Oswald might have been told that he had 20 CIA Agents in Cuba who would support him there.

(18) We have good evidence that Harry Dean, a successful FPCC Officer in Chicago, was invited to meet with Fidel Castro PERSONALLY, even though Harry Dean could hardly speak a single sentence in Spanish. So -- IT WAS POSSIBLE.

(19) So, again, Mark, we don't have to say that OSWALD was as STUPID as YOU say he had to be to obey Banister -- but based on Oswald's Mexico City behavior, we have a firm baseline of Oswald's NAIVETE. That seems to me to be Objectively Valid.

Sincerely,

--Paul Trejo

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc is a Latin phrase for "after this, therefore, because of this." The term refers to a logical fallacy that because two events occurred in succession, the former event caused the latter event. The fallacy lies in coming to a conclusion based solely on the order of events, rather than taking into account other factors that might rule out the connection.

For example: The rooster crows immediately before sunrise, therefore the rooster causes the sun to rise.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Ernie Lazar

[David Andrews]

Consideration of Oswald among the Soviets in Mexico City and a possible exodus to Cuba with Castro assassination plot should at least examine Richard Case Nagell's history with these elements in the same months, as laid out in The Man Who Knew Too Much.

[Larry Hancock]

Nagell is a tough source to deal with, requires a lot of work ...but certain of his items, such as Oswald's unknown exile contacts pushing him towards some action back east in September can be corroborated by Oswald's letters to CPUSA and SWP about moving back there and about even potentially going "underground". That was a level of self "set up" far beyond his FPCC leafleting.

[Paul Trejo]

Nagell is a tough source to deal with, requires a lot of work ...but certain of his items, such as Oswald's unknown exile contacts pushing him towards some action back east in September can be corroborated by Oswald's letters to CPUSA and SWP about moving back there and about even potentially going "underground". That was a level of self "set up" far beyond his FPCC leafleting.

I agree with this, Larry. Yet one must also take into consideration Lee Oswald's behavior at the Mexico City consulates as a measure of his emotional and intellectual maturity.

Also, the plausibility that Lee Oswald shot at Walker (as emphasized by veteran JFK researcher Ed Epstein) combined with reports from George De Mohrenschildt and Volkmar Schmidt, should also be considered as a measure of Oswald's maturity.

In sum, just because Lee Oswald did something does not guarantee that he had a good reason to do it.

One can also make a case, based on the above behavior along with the behavior implied in his alleged interactions with Richard Case Nagell, that Lee Harvey Oswald wanted to impress everybody, wanted to be one-up on everybody, and wanted to be ready to take advantage of any new opportunity that might arise.

This would make sense for a person who was on the verge of desperation -- who was grasping at straws.

There is a chance that Oswald was afraid that Richard Nagell was going to kill him -- precisely over his forthcoming Mexico City trip. This might be one more reason that Oswald contemplated (as reports say) hi-jacking a jet to Cuba in one week, and sitting in his kitchen and crying the next week.

Finally, one should consider that Lee Oswald dealt with the American left-wing parties ONLY BY MAIL. He did not personally hang out with these people. This suggests (to me, anyway) an intelligence scenario in which Oswald *wanted* to be traced to the American left-wing through a physical paper-trail. It was all for show.

Insofar as this was the case in NOLA, then I would also suspect that Guy Banister was behind Oswald's contact with the CPUSA and SWP while he was in NOLA. It might have all been a part of his "sheep-dipping," as Jim Garrison put it.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 24, 2014 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Brancato]

Paul - you completely evaded the issue that Knight raised. I find it strange that you wouldn't simply address the question directly.