Does Lifton's Best Evidence indicate that the coverup and the crime were committed by the same people?

[Cliff Varnell]

2 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Cliff, 'C'mon! Be the MC at the new thread...

Okay, but I have a lot of transcribing to do so don't expect an immediate contribution.

Kennedy's policy in Laos was at the heart of the matter, and my research isn't finished.

[Michael Clark]

3 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Okay, but I have a lot of transcribing to do so don't expect an immediate contribution.

Kennedy's policy in Laos was at the heart of the matter, and my research isn't finished.

Thanks Cliff, looking forward to it. Please reserve the first response in that thread if that suits you.

Cheers,

Michael

[Paul Trejo]

13 hours ago, Ron Ecker said:

I have to wonder why the powers that be would have been so hellbent to cover up for a local Dallas plot. I can see Walker as a potential Dallas patsy much more than as a murderer protected by a massive government cover-up. I have to think that the cover-uppers were covering up for people more important than Walker and his Minutemen.

Ron,

This is a crucial question.

Why would the US Government cover up a Radical Right plot instead of bringing them to justice immediately?

The answer is in the 1960's.  It was the Cold War.  The USSR would have had a field day.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited April 7, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

21 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Good job explaining my point, Paul.

The only way to ensure that Oswald wouldn't say a word was to kill him right away.  Once that option was off the table there could be no "irrevocable proof of Communist complicity" and thus the Castro-did-it scenario was taken off the table.

Cliff,

According to the WC testimony of US Secretary of State Dean Rusk, the only reason that Dallas backed off of its fantasy that the Communists killed JFK was that he, personally called Texas Attorney General Waggoner Carr and ordered him to cease and desist.

Waggoner Carr called Dallas DA Henry Wade and that was that.

This all happened on 11/23/1963. 

The Dallas plotters would never have changed for any other reason -- they were all in.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited April 7, 2017 by Paul Trejo
11/23/1963 not 11/22/1963

[Ron Ecker]

Paul,

I recall reading somewhere that at the time of the assassination, General Walker was on an airline flight, and made sure that other passengers were aware of him, as if to establish an alibi. Was that a true or accurate account?

 

 

 

 

[Paul Trejo]

34 minutes ago, Ron Ecker said:

Paul,

I recall reading somewhere that at the time of the assassination, General Walker was on an airline flight, and made sure that other passengers were aware of him, as if to establish an alibi. Was that a true or accurate account?

Ron,

Yes, to the best of my knowledge that is a true account.  I base my theory of General Walker largely on the academic history by Texas historian Chris Cravens (1993) in his manuscript, General Walker and the Right Wing in Dallas 1960-1966.

Cravens says that this was Walker's modus-operandi, for example, it is not widely known that General Walker planned and coordinated the extensive humiliation of Adlai Stevenson in Dallas one month before the JFK assassination.  This humiliation went on for hours and involved many different groups in Dallas.  Yet General Walker himself was back in Oak Lawn enjoying dinner with a friend.  

Walker had carefully planned the humiliation -- and booby-trapped the Dallas Memorial Auditorium with the help of Larrie Schmidt (who admits his role) and other JBS and Radical Right groups on the night before Adlai's speech there.

General Walker called his event, "US Day," to deliberately clash with Adlai Stevenson's, "UN Day."   It was 100% deliberate.

Yet Walker ensured that he was personally absent from the actual execution.   Just like a good General.  He gave the plans and orders, and his troops carried them out.  That was his modus-operandi.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited April 7, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Ron Ecker]

9 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Yet Walker ensured that he was personally absent from the actual execution.   Just like a good General.

Was he being a good General or something else?

I can understand Eisenhower not hitting the beach at Normandy. But I'm sure that Ike monitored the invasion and was available for consultation.

I have to wonder what Walker's Minutemen, as they were awaited the President at Dealey Plaza to shoot him, thought of their leader enjoying a plane ride somewhere.

Compare Walker to the guy whom Prouty and Krulak were convinced (and others have agreed) was General Lansdale, walking around in Dealey Plaza to make sure that everything was going down as planned.

 

[Paul Trejo]

32 minutes ago, Ron Ecker said:

Was he being a good General or something else?

I can understand Eisenhower not hitting the beach at Normandy. But I'm sure that Ike monitored the invasion and was available for consultation.

I have to wonder what Walker's Minutemen, as they were awaited the President at Dealey Plaza to shoot him, thought of their leader enjoying a plane ride somewhere.

Compare Walker to the guy whom Prouty and Krulak were convinced (and others have agreed) was General Lansdale, walking around in Dealey Plaza to make sure that everything was going down as planned.

Ron,

I ask you to consider the mind-set of the Radical Right in the South in the 1960's.   General Walker was a great hero to the Radical Right.  He could do no wrong.

This photograph shows his public persona:  http://www.pet880.com/images/19611204_Newsweek_Cover.JPG

Nobody breathed a word that Walker was a homosexual -- in public, that is.

Walker was a frequent speaker at rallies in the South for Segregation causes.  He was invited to be a Grand Dragon of the KKK (which he refused).

Walker was idolized.   He was never questioned.  The Minutemen who served for General Walker would have gladly died for him, IMHO, and it never entered their minds for a single minute to disobey or even question his orders.  They did exactly as they were told -- in this very carefully laid out military plan.   It was picture-perfect.

The only thing that failed was the propaganda portion -- those damn "Liberals" in Washington DC refused to go along with the Communist Oswald gambit. 

Far from a CIA or KGB plot -- the JFK murder was very much part of the "Yankee and Cowboy Wars" as Carl Oglesby put it.  (All this goes back to the title of this thread.  The JFK Cover-up Team was separate from the JFK Kill Team.  They were hostile to each other.)

As for General Lansdale -- IMHO that was him in Dealey Plaza amid the three tramps -- but I accept Larry Hancock's benign theory of that visit -- Lansdale was in Dallas to investigate rumors of a JFK assassination plot.

 Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited April 7, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Ron Ecker]

16 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Lansdale was in Dallas to investigate rumors of a JFK assassination plot.

 

It's a damn shame that Lansdale didn't tell JFK about the rumors. The trip just might have been canceled a la Chicago.

 

[Steve Thomas]

On 4/4/2017 at 8:32 AM, David Lifton said:

To all:

I’m going to jump in here and present my view—which, by the way, I have already stated (to some extent) in my appearance at Bismarck, North Dakota in November 2013 (Google, David Lifton, Bismarck) and in the November 2016 Night Fright Show (with host Brent Holland), just a few months ago.

10.  Finally, and this is my personal opinion (which I will be writing about in Final Charade, or in an auxiliary essay): the original assassination, as planned, was for the fall of 1961. Certain unexpected events occurred which resulted in it being postponed until November 1963.  This fact is important in properly interpreting certain historical data pertaining to the evolution of the event.

 

David,

 

What do you think of the idea that Kennedy's body was removed from the coffin right there at Parkland?

That would explain:

1) The tunnels

2) herding the candy stripers etc. to a central area

3) taping over the windows

4) the fight over the coffin in the hallway

 

PS: Was there something going on in the fall of 1961 that you are thinking of besides the Bay of Pigs aftermath?

Or would that be giving too much away prior to your book?

 

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

12 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

 

And I repeat myself, our players had no interest in bringing dark, Spanish-Speaking catholic folk, 90 miles away, into the heart of the nascent new world order.

Michael,

 

I have mulled this over in my mind for years, and haven't figured out a way to express it, but that's why I haven't given too much credence to the idea of the ultra far right fringe like the KKK or the Knights of Shickshimmey or whatever cooperating much with the anti-Castro exiles. I think they would have been perfectly willing to sit back and watch their little brown brothers kill each other off.

 

Steve Thomas 

[Ron Ecker]

5 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Michael,

 

I have mulled this over in my mind for years, and haven't figured out a way to express it, but that's why I haven't given too much credence to the idea of the ultra far right fringe like the KKK or the Knights of Shickshimmey or whatever cooperating much with the anti-Castro exiles. I think they would have been perfectly willing to sit back and watch their little brown brothers kill each other off.

 

Steve Thomas 

Operation Northwoods, designed to provoke an invasion of Cuba, was the brainchild of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, folks like LeMay and Lemnitzer, about as far right as you can get. ("Let's do a first strike on Russia, we'll only lose a few million people.") Why were these nuts outright proposing terrorist acts in America for the sole purpose of getting rid of Castro?

 

[Michael Clark]

23 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Michael,

 

I have mulled this over in my mind for years, and haven't figured out a way to express it, but that's why I haven't given too much credence to the idea of the ultra far right fringe like the KKK or the Knights of Shickshimmey or whatever cooperating much with the anti-Castro exiles. I think they would have been perfectly willing to sit back and watch their little brown brothers kill each other off.

 

Steve Thomas 

Steve, I don't think that kind of coordination was necessary. Elements of the DPD and Sheriffs command just had to know to tolerate a few strange Cubans and suits in and around the area. After the hit, let some spooks and suits sort through some of the strangers, let some people out the back door. If any Cubans did get wounded or killed, hide the body and cover up the incident. This last part was the dirty trick because it hid the conspiracy and prevented an action on Cuba.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Paul Brancato]

I'd like to keep the thread on track, but don't want to be too insistent. 

[Michael Clark]

8 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

I'd like to keep the thread on track, but don't want to be too insistent. 

Fair enough, I haven't read the book, so I'll drop-off here.