Unacknowledged

[Richard Booth]

4 hours ago, David Andrews said:

I wouldn't put any faith in Woolsey as any kind of "truther."  Check his 9/11 involvement, including the "Dark Winter" anthrax exercise in summer 2001.

He isn't -- he simply touts a story which, if you examine the evidence presented for that story in "The Third Terrorist" you will find it is bogus. First you have to figure out the real names of the witnesses presented in the book, which you can do if you know this case.

However, I don't want to derail the thread, so back to Unacknowledged: Dr. Greer did not "debrief" James Woolsey. He had a dinner with him, which he paid for, and he talked about UFOs at the dinner. Note how that becomes some kind of shadowy "debriefing" in Dr. Greer's account. 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Richard Booth
typo

[Paul Brancato]

On 9/3/2020 at 2:35 AM, Richard Booth said:

Unacknowledged.

Let's look at the person responsible for it. Dr. Greer.

Dr. Greer believes that you (yes, YOU dear reader) can "vector in" UFOs using flashlights and he'll show ya how to do it for just $1,000 at one of his CE-5 retreats.

This alone speaks to his credibility.

He also has a funny habit, which I have seen in others: It's this espionage fetish style of self-aggrandizement and I will explain that:

Dr. Greer will tell you and anyone else who will listen how he has "briefed sitting CIA directors" or alternately he might say "debrief." Either way, that's some serious xxxx, huh? Giving a briefing to a CIA director? Well let's look at what he is actually talking about:

Dr. Greer once paid for a dinner where he got to meet James Woolsey, who was indeed a CIA director (and, I might add, he was an outsider like Stansfield Turner was and largely viewed as a neoconservative rather than an intelligence professional, but that's neither here nor there). During this dinner, Dr. Greer prattled on about UFOs. 

That, my friends, is Dr. Greer's "debriefing"

I suppose if I had worked with Lee Harvey Oswald at the book depository and I spent my lunch break annoying him with talk of UFOs, I could say I once "briefed Lee Harvey Oswald on UFOs" but that would not be the truth now would it?

Suppose that this sitting CIA director, Mr. Woolsey, had actually decided to call a civilian doctor to Langley to give him a briefing on the subject: wouldn't that set off some alarm bells? Why is the highest ranking person in intelligence getting briefings from amateurs? And what about Woolsey, is he credible? Well, Mr. Woolsey alleges that Timothy McVeigh had a secret Iraqi accomplice in the bombing of the Murrah building. You see, John Doe #2 was actually an agent of Saddam Hussein! According to Mr. Woolsey and a group of neoconservatives who managed to sell him the cock-and-bull story. He believed it. (I've looked deeply into this subject and I can assure you that no Iraqi participated in the OKC bombing). Did Mr. Woolsey also believe in the nonsense given to him from Dr. Greer during the debriefing dinner he had with Dr. Greer?

I think that Unacknowledged is a very flawed and poorly edited (it's quick-cut, shots all over the place, overly dramatic) film produced by a crackpot who claims he briefs CIA directors. 

The most interesting thing in the film is the interview with Richard C. Doty who worked for the Air Force Office of Special Investigations. Mr. Doty is an intelligence professional who spent most of his career disinforming people and carrying out counter-espionage. Doty is interesting, but not exactly for the reasons you might think. He made his bones selling bogus documents and hoaxes to the UFO community. So listening and watching him is an insight into that whole world. I recommend reading the book "Mirage Men" (and the documentary by the same name) for a good summary of Mr. Doty's UFO disinformation antics. Other details on Mr. Doty that are interesting: he also had a relationship with the CIA. He served at a site called Lima Site 20-A in Cambodia during Vietnam. This was a joint CIA-Air Force black site. Doty is also a member of the organization Association of Former Intelligence Officers, founded by David Atlee Phillips. 

Doty claims he knew Richard Helms personally and they were good friends. Helms also once said "Believe anything about UFOs that Richard Doty says."  I think this should give us all good insight into this subject: it's a wilderness of mirrors built by the CIA and steeped in hoaxes, disinformation games, and spooks. 

Another great place to read about all this would be a fantastic piece on UFOs by Seamus Coogan over at kennedysandking -- Coogan outlines the many hoaxes/disinformation games I refer to here.

--Richard

 

Hi Richard - your presence on the Forum is very appreciated. 
I have a general question, or observation about the UFO field, which of course can apply elsewhere too. When a conspiracy subject is loaded with crackpots, disinformation, misinformation, etc., does that mean there is no substance? Do Dr. Greer’s bonafides or lack thereof, and self promotion mean that UFO’s or UAP’s are only a Wilderness of Mirrors? I don’t for a second doubt your cogent analysis. I read Coogan’s articles too and he makes the same points. Couldn’t one do the same with JFK’s assassination? That subject is chock full of disinformation and covert agents peddling their wares. 
After years of studying UFO’s, and decades of JFK I came to the conclusion that the presence of so much disinformation was itself reason to explore further and not dismiss the subject. Btw, I am not saying that’s what you are doing, I’m asking. 

[Pamela Brown]

On 7/17/2020 at 10:33 AM, Mark Stevens said:

Based on my understanding of events, it's more likely Hitler was charmed by Ford than Ford by Hitler. 

That's debatable, imo...

https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/henry-ford-grand-cross-1938/

[Mark Stevens]

1 hour ago, Pamela Brown said:

That's debatable, imo...

https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/henry-ford-grand-cross-1938/

Henry Ford was given the Grand Cross in 1938 for his "service to the reich." They were giving him an award but he hadn't really done anything in service for the reich, other than write and support a great amount of antisemitism, hire the leader of the German American Bund to work at Ford and otherwise inspire Hitler enough to mention him in Mein Kampf and hang a portrait of him above his desk.

Considering the fact that Hitler wasn't into automobile manufacturing, the only real other thing they had in common was their antisemitism. I believe at this point in time enough documentation exists showing how fond of Ford Hitler was. While Ford was clearly antisemitic, he never outright supported Nazi Germany, to the best of my knowledge. What little he did was related to Fritz Kuhn.

With this all in mind there isn't really any other reason to give Ford the Grand Cross other than the overall respect and admiration they had for his "work," which wasn't Model T's and assembly lines. It was spewing enough antisemitic hatred to have his newspaper shut down.

[Richard Booth]

On 9/4/2020 at 12:16 PM, Paul Brancato said:

(1) When a conspiracy subject is loaded with crackpots, disinformation, misinformation, etc., does that mean there is no substance?

(2) Do Dr. Greer’s bonafides or lack thereof, and self promotion mean that UFO’s or UAP’s are only a Wilderness of Mirrors?

1) no it doesn't mean that, it just means you have a lot of crap to wade through and it usually means that the majority of people talking about the subject are likely to be talking about things that are probably bogus. If 90% of the material is bogus then it stands to reason the discussions on the subject will often surround that bogus material. 

2) no - my comments were mostly to suggest that Greer is a biased and not credible source and we must consider that when looking at his material. 

The subject is a wilderness of mirrors, loaded with bogus data and questionable figures.

However, I am not saying that the entire subject is nonsense. Only that it is largely nonsense. 

I suggest that what David Fravor (pilot) has to say about the object he encountered in his Super Hornet is something that is clearly unexplained, and that the person talking there (Fravor) is highly credible. 

[Pamela Brown]

21 hours ago, Mark Stevens said:

Henry Ford was given the Grand Cross in 1938 for his "service to the reich." They were giving him an award but he hadn't really done anything in service for the reich, other than write and support a great amount of antisemitism, hire the leader of the German American Bund to work at Ford and otherwise inspire Hitler enough to mention him in Mein Kampf and hang a portrait of him above his desk.

Considering the fact that Hitler wasn't into automobile manufacturing, the only real other thing they had in common was their antisemitism. I believe at this point in time enough documentation exists showing how fond of Ford Hitler was. While Ford was clearly antisemitic, he never outright supported Nazi Germany, to the best of my knowledge. What little he did was related to Fritz Kuhn.

With this all in mind there isn't really any other reason to give Ford the Grand Cross other than the overall respect and admiration they had for his "work," which wasn't Model T's and assembly lines. It was spewing enough antisemitic hatred to have his newspaper shut down.

I tend to agree.  But Hitler did come up with the Volkswagon...

[Douglas Caddy]

Are aliens hiding in plain sight?

Several missions this year are seeking out life on the red planet. But would we recognise extraterrestrials if we found them?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/05/are-aliens-hiding-in-plain-sight#comment-143505982

[Paul Brancato]

On 9/5/2020 at 3:41 PM, Richard Booth said:

1) no it doesn't mean that, it just means you have a lot of crap to wade through and it usually means that the majority of people talking about the subject are likely to be talking about things that are probably bogus. If 90% of the material is bogus then it stands to reason the discussions on the subject will often surround that bogus material. 

2) no - my comments were mostly to suggest that Greer is a biased and not credible source and we must consider that when looking at his material. 

The subject is a wilderness of mirrors, loaded with bogus data and questionable figures.

However, I am not saying that the entire subject is nonsense. Only that it is largely nonsense. 

I suggest that what David Fravor (pilot) has to say about the object he encountered in his Super Hornet is something that is clearly unexplained, and that the person talking there (Fravor) is highly credible. 

Richard - exactly - most of it is bogus, or deliberate mis and disinformation. But when you look closely, which all the crap is designed to obscure, you see that there is some real phenomena. “What it is ain’t exactly clear”

[Joe Bauer]

There is a provocative claim cited more than a few times in some of these expert or high position military and scientific community witnesses UFO/Alien presence and technology testimonial expose documentaries that always catches my interest.

Here is a general paraphrasing...

The average person has no clue. That whatever you think is our most advanced technologies, we are 50 years ahead of that curve already.

Star Trek type stuff. 

I personally believe these claims more so than not.

Yet, I also believe that if we have developed these super advanced technologies, their ownership has created separated governmental power and control agencies that do not adhere to or abide by our democratic/constitutional constraints or oversight.

This super advanced stuff we have discovered, developed and probably use for secret agendas...is just too much for the little people ( 99% of us ) to deal with and too important to risk uninformed public demands for it's sharing. 

And we can't let other governments have this technology either. 

My guess is these new super advanced and secret technology breakthroughs create separate governments. They have to to maintain control of them.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

On 6/4/2020 at 10:35 AM, James DiEugenio said:

Travis Walton:  note what the outside polygraph examiner said, clearest case of lying he saw in 20 years.

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4094

Hmmm.   

Were Roger's other 5 crew members in on the scam?

They all described coming upon a fire orange glow in the woods while ascending down the mountain in Roger's truck on their way back from their tree and brush clearing workplace and at the same exact time.

When they came close enough to actually see the object emanating this light they all described it with the same description. They described Walton's actions of leaving the truck and getting closer to the object. They all described a "blue" bolt coming from the object and hitting Walton and knocking him backwards to the ground.

I think the resident UFO experience debunker of the day Phil Klass actually suggested that this object might have been built by Walton and his older brother to add theatrics to the scam.

Building something capable of discharging a Tesla energy beam would have been a remarkable achievement for a couple of high school education only amateur mechanics with very little money.

Walton made some money off of his experience story true. But why shouldn't he?

However, all the rest of the 6 other witnesses to the glowing 20 foot wide burnished metal contraption that shot out a blue electric charge bolt never made a dime off their totally similar eye witness accounts of this and they have never wavered or changed their stories despite monetary gain being offered to them to do so...for almost 50 years!

It's these real life working class others at that scene and their almost 50 year long unwavering recollection sharing of the incident that impresses me more than any other aspect of the story in believing the main parts of it imo.

Fact point - I believe one or two of the Walton experience eye witnesses have passed away.

The debunking article above is weak imo. It simply leans on the findings of one lie detector expert over another.

No finger prints on the phone Walton used to call home after he was dropped off by the alien saucer? Please.

Walton and his brother had an interest in the UFO subject? So did tens of millions of others at that time.

Heck the TV show "The Invaders" shown on national TV from 1967 through 1968 had millions of followers ( me included ) and this was 7 years before the Walton story.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Ray Mitcham]

Klass inhabits the same territory as Gerald Posner. Who on earth would believe him?

[Ron Ecker]

I have a theory that Trump is actually an alien life form from an outlying planet. The inhabitants of that planet out-lie all other inhabitants of the universe. Astronomers should name the planet Praevaricatio.

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

7 hours ago, Ron Ecker said:

I have a theory that Trump is actually an alien life form from an outlying planet. The inhabitants of that planet out-lie all other inhabitants of the universe. Astronomers should name the planet Praevaricatio.

 

 

Ron, Trump has a crooked little finger.

Can someone contact David Vincent?

[Ken Davies]

3 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Ron, Trump has a crooked little finger.

Can someone contact David Vincent?

Is there any film of him morphing into a reptile? Perhaps it was just dinosaur pajamas.🤔

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

13 minutes ago, Ken Davies said:

Is there any film of him morphing into a reptile? Perhaps it was just dinosaur pajamas.🤔

 

 

I've viewed interviews of Roy Thinnis ( David Vincent in the TV show The Invaders ) in his older days ( he's 82! ) where he talks about his career and especially his run as the star of the Alien Invasion show "The Invaders."

He is often asked his views on the alien/ET phenomena.

Does he believe our planet is being visited?

Can't quote his answers word for word, but I recall him stating he is more a believer of the premise versus not.