David Josephs

Any chance Prayerman is MOLINA? He can't be over to the East since Gloria passes right by him.... Initially I thought Molina may be suit/tie man.... he definitely is not walking down to the RR tracks with those 2 men.... FWIW...

So is this just a huge coincidence? Can’t be the same guy.... https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKwilsonS.htm There is a claim this Wilson had a hand in with the BYP..... Justin Joseph "Steve" Wilson was born in Mansfield, Ohio. He spent three years in the United States Army and five years in the United States Marines. Wilson was a member of Interpen (Intercontinental Penetration Force) that was established in 1961 by Gerry P. Hemming. Other members included Loran Hall, Roy Hargraves, William Seymour, Lawrence Howard, Howard K. Davis, Edwin Collins, James Arthur Lewis, Dennis Harber, Bill Dempsey, Dick Whatley, Ramigo Arce, Ronald Augustinovich, Joe Garman, Edmund Kolby, Ralph Schlafter, Manuel Aguilar and Oscar Del Pinto. This group of experienced soldiers were involved in training members of the anti-Castro groups funded by the Central Intelligence Agency in Florida in the early 1960s. When the government began to crack down on raids from Florida in 1962, Interpen set up a new training camp in New Orleans. The group carried out a series of raids on Cuba in an attempt to undermine the government of Fidel Castro. This involved a plan to create a war by simulating an attack on Guantanamo Naval Base. Some researchers believe that a combination of Interpen members and anti-Castro Cubans were involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. This included Wilson, James Arthur Lewis, Roy Hargraves, Edwin Collins, Gerry P. Hemming, David Morales, Herminio Diaz Garcia, Tony Cuesta, Eugenio Martinez, Virgilio Gonzalez, Felipe Vidal Santiagoand William (Rip) Robertson. Steve Wilson was working as an ironworker on a Key West desalination plant project, when he died of heart failure in 1984.

Yeah - completely missed that thread about donating.... Thanks James... Donation complete....says we're almost to $1000 To Rob's point... I think it's the massive reposting in replies that's the problem... If a poster only has a few things to say against a LOOOONG post like one of mine, they needn't "quote" the entire post... but just that part the reply poster is addressing... I'd have to believe that is the worst culprit of unnecessary bandwidth use What would it take to get an accessible back-up Archive of the posts from this forum so that even if worse case does happen there is a searchable resource that should be much less per month... how much space does the forum take up...? Maybe someplace like MFF could host it...just a thought DJ

James... could you please pin a HOW TO DONATE AND SAVE THE ED FORUM thread to the top of the key forum topics with the most visits? I'm fairly sure the response will be sufficient to keep things going for a while... Thanks DJ

Sorry to hear James.... We have 102 pages of members in the lookup. I would gladly pay a buck or two a month along with the rest... Surely we could get to the $130 figure with the core group of posters and lurkers? Or even open it up to online funding support.... IDK... but I know I don’t want this forum to go away... and for a buck or so a month spread out over many, we should be able to do this.... how can I assist with such an endeavor? DJ....

As opposed to what ? How else do you suppose we are even aware of this package?

Tony, If we are gong to have Yates deliver a man with a rifle in a paper sack to Elm and Houston... Frazier made up the curtain rod story... if that was actually his lunch, only Wesley can dispel that but he doesn’t but saying it was a small dime store type flimsy paper sack... not enough to hold 7lbs of broken down rifle 34” long, clip, ammo, and nothing with which to assemble them.... The postage due package to Lee in Irving was supposed to be there before the 20th so he comes home, as the evidence would say, retreived the constructed bag from this package and used it to bring you in the rifle.... since this did not happen you need to ask yourself.... who made the bag that was claimed to be but never shown in the SE corner, and when. Monty comes out with the bag later in the afternoon... yet if you read Studebaker and Day and Monty and Johnson’s testimonies about who picked up that bag and where it went is very revealing. I did a full post on it so I’m sure it can be found here is the one where Gary Mack sent me the transcript of Montgomery’s oral history statement. Here it is... love Day’s comment... “There’s a legible print on it now” how does one create a paper sack from flat paper without leaving any prints... and if what Johnson says is true, the DPD personnel handled that bag before it went to DC... they should have found legible identifiable prints from the men who handled it... but after Ozzie is dead, only his prints are found... when the FBI sends the bag back to Dallas... Mr. MONTGOMERY. Wait just a minute no; I didn't pick it up. I believe Mr. Studebaker did. We left it laying right there so they could check it for prints. Mr. BELIN. All right, is there anything else you can remember about that sack? Mr. JOHNSON. No; other than like I said, my partner picked it up and we unfolded it and it appeared to be about the same shape as a rifle case would be. In other words, we made the remark that that is what he probably brought it in. That is why, the reason we saved it. Mr. BELIN. Did you find anything, any print of any kind, in connection with the processing of this? Mr. DAY. No legible prints were found with the powder, no. Mr. BELIN. Do you know whether any legible prints were found by any other means or any other place? Mr. DAY. There is a legible print on it now. They were on there when it was returned to me from the FBI on November 24.

Frazier testifies to Oswald buying his lunch that day..... where would that have been? I’ll be doing a presentation updating what we know at CAPA in Nov about the rifle and who knew what, when. It is directly provable that the FBI used evidence of one transaction to represent the 10 cartons to Klein’s order that did not happen based on the available evidence https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-evidence-is-the-conspiracy-index I have a few articles on the rifle.... After offering back to back reports stating the FBI took this film signed only by Dolan, and another, signed by all 3 agents saying Walkman kept the film... Worse yet what happens to the rest of the non existent FC rifles since the only rifle ever seen from those 100 serial numbers is C2766. How many were left in stock.? How many were used to fill C20-T750 orders? Between Feb 63 and Nov 63 when he claims they stopped?

Hey there Paul.... "confess" to what... do you think? - Accessory after the fact? - Direct Accessory - in that the confession would state he knew a rifle was in the bag and he helped Oswald go get it and get it into the TSBD? - The murder itself? There is no image of Wesley before we see him on the steps AFTER the shooting. as to speculating about jail time and such, IDK.... do you get the impression that Fritz would just say nothing and leave after Wesley threatens him with retaliatory violence should they want to try and "make" him sign.... "I'll get in a few good licks before you take me..." he says to Fritz, or something to that effect. Seems strange to me that DPD cops and whoever else was in there just let that slide....

As I was searching for Wesley's interrogation notes I came across this statement concluding an argument on DVP's site: Numbers 1 through 8 above strongly suggest that Lee Harvey Oswald's "curtain rod" story was a complete fabrication from the beginning, used as a device with which to avoid suspicion when he carried his dismantled Mannlicher-Carcano rifle into the Depository Building on the same morning of President Kennedy's visit to Dallas, Texas. Now, doesn't it make a bit more sense that FRAZIER fabricated the story since Oswald is claimed to have said he 1 - did not bring a bag to work, and 2 - never said anything about curtain rods.... Since Fritz did these notes well afterward, does it not make more sense to claim Oswald did say he brought a bag with curtain rods in it? Now why in the world would Wesley lie? - to save himself? Maybe has something to do with William "Bill" Randle and his relationship with Oswald? Mr. BALL - And who lives in that house with you? Mr. FRAZIER - My sister and brother-in-law and their three children. Mr. BALL - Will you state their names, your sister's name? Mr. FRAZIER - Linnie Mae Randle and my brother-in-law. I believe his real name is William Edward Randle. We call him Bill. They have three little girls, Diana, Patricia and Caroline Sue. Mrs. RANDLE. He was carrying a package in a sort of a heavy brown bag, heavier than a grocery bag it looked to me. It was about, if I might measure, about this long, I suppose, and he carried it in his right hand, had the top sort of folded down and had a grip like this, and the bottom, he carried it this way, you know, and it almost touched the ground as he carried it. Even the Find a Grave site bio perpetuates the lie Linnie Randle testified to the Warren Commission that she had seen Lee Harvey Oswald with a long package under his arm when he got into her brother, Buell Wesley Frazier's car as they left for work at the Texas School Book Depository on Friday, 22 Nov. 1963. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/102461058/linnie-mae-randle William Edward "Bill" Randle https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/131275226/william-edward-randle A funeral Service for William "Bill" Randle age 80, of Dike will be held at 10:00 a.m. Friday, June 13, 2014 at First Baptist Church of Sulphur Springs with Bro. Mike Skelton and Bro. Fred Lewis officiating. Interment will follow in Restlawn Memorial Park with Grandsons and Great-Grandsons serving as Pallbearers. With Ray Skelton, Randy Gyer, B.W. Frazier, Robert Frazier, Erwin Boyle, Clifford Randle, Marvin Randle, Don Randle and Chuck Creed serving as honorary Pallbearers. Visitation will be from 6 until 8 pm Thursday, June 12, 2014 at Murray-Orwosky Funeral Home. Bill Randle died Wednesday, June 11, 2014 at his residence. He was born January 20, 1934, in Dallas to Alfred Ernest Randle and Adina Gebert. He married Linnie Frazier who preceded him in death in 2012. Bill was a retired cabinet maker and wood worker. He was a member of the First Baptist Church and served as a Deacon since 1955. He is survived by daughters, Diana Gyer (Randy) of Dike, Patricia Skelton (Ray) of Sulphur Springs; brothers Clifford Randle, Marvin Randle and Don Randle all of Irving; sister Dorothy Creed of Coppell; Grandchildren, Jason Ashford, Josh Ashford, Steven Cooper, Patricia Cooper, Mike Skelton, Brandon Skelton, Jessica Heaton and Amber Jester , and nine Great grandchildren He was preceded in death by his parents, one brother Charlie Randle and a daughter Carolyn Ashford and one great granddaughter Chloe Ashford. From WCD 21 we find yet another piece of the puzzle about which Wesley was not questioned... His brother-in-law knows Lee Harvey in one FBI report yet denies this to the SS 5 days later... I haven't been able to find the SAIC Benavides O/M, San Antonio 11/25/63 that they reference here.... I've found a few 11/25 reports by Benavides but they had to do with New Orleans and a woman claiming to see Charles Steele Jr in both New Orleans leafleting film and in front of the TSBD Ya see, if Oswald's paper sack did not or could not contain a rifle... there was no other way for it to get to the TSBD... Frazier was their only choice 'cause the other paper sack never made it to Oswald. "Denied Curtain Rods"

Wesley says "hours of interrogation" - is there any record of anything Wesley said beyond his watching him walk to the TSBD with that package under his arm..... and that the brown bad was not made of heavy packing paper but was a thin dime-store paper sack about 2' long.... I happen to think that Wesley tried as hard as possible not to incriminate Oswald yet I believe he ultimately had not choice... It is becoming my POV that there never was a paper sack related to Oswald... with mom and sis backing Wesley's story to keep him out of trouble. Shields does not say anything about the following statement he makes to the HSCA - to the WC. I think he is talking about Charles GIVENS as he was with Givens at the Elm/Record Parking lot during the motorcade. Where did Oswald get his lunch?

First off - sorry to hear about the sad news... that site has always been a gold mine... I need to go see some of those debates though.... === To Tony's post.... When the rifle is right side up, the sketch is there... upside down... no sketch... then again, I don't think it was supposed to be Oswald... he's never had a widow's peak Don't know why they would leave that there and even go out of the way to mention it... FWIW Evidence: Rifle and Police Artist Sketch [Negative #2] DESCRIPTION:Photograph of a piece of evidence. There is a rifle with a scope sitting on a counter near a drawing of a man. Evidence: Rifle and Police Artist Sketch [Print] DESCRIPTION:Photograph of a piece of evidence. A rifle with a scope is shown on a counter next to a police artist sketch. https://texashistory.unt.edu/explore/collections/JFKDP/browse/?q=rifle&t=fulltext&sort=#result-5

Mr. BALL. Did you have any tape recorder? Mr. FRITZ. No, sir; I don't have a tape recorder. We need one, if we had one at this time we could have handled these conversations far better. Mr. BALL. The Dallas Police Department doesn't have one? Mr. FRITZ. No, sir; I have requested one several times but so far they haven't gotten me one. p.91 Bart Kamp “Anatomy of Lee Harvey Oswald’s Interrogations” In Larry Sneed’s No More Silence Holmes says the following about the usage of his so-called abilities using his memory: “There was no tape recording of the interrogation or stenographer or anyone taking notes. That was the way that Fritz operated. The interrogation itself was rather informal with Captain Fritz being in charge. He would ask Oswald various questions and pull out different things such as the map with the X’s on it and the card that had been taken out of Oswald’s billfold that had A.J. Hidell on it and things like that. Then he would say, “Well, Sorrels, do you have anything you want to ask him?” But Kelley and Sorrels had very little to ask; they didn’t have the documentation that I had. We were free to ask or interject anything we wanted. Of course, we were all experienced interrogators, and when you went to trial in those days, especially in federal court, you had to show any notes you took to the defense. So they got to look at every note that you had against their client. But we old-time investigators would just do it by memory. I could still quote nearly every word that boy said to this day and that’s been over twenty years ago. That’s the way I was trained to interrogate anybody, and so was Fritz. If they’re telling the truth, you’d talk to them by the hour, and if they couldn’t tell it the same way twice or a third time, or a tenth time, you’d catch them because you’d know exactly what he had said the first time. You didn’t need notes; you didn’t need a secretary or a stenographer. Of course, you do now, but back then you really had to use your own wits to convict people. What complete junk... At least our man Harry Holmes is consistent... "That was the way Fritz operated" ???? Can you image trying to tell a judge the accused "confessed" - verbally - or said anything for that matter which was not written down contemporaneously... I guess if 6 people in the room all say the accused said a certain something, it would have to be seriously considered... but one of the largest police Depts in the country and no interrogation notes?? wonder why they had so many stenographers working for the DPD That's A LOT of Secret Service men in there... and of course the "Unknown FBI agent" at Ruby's interrogation... speaking of which... what about the notes from THOSE interviews?

I believe TL Baker was responsible for the typed version of these notes.... Mr. BALL. Did somebody assist you in the preparation of that notebook? Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Who was that? Mr. FRITZ. I had several officers assist me with this, and some secretaries, of course, that helped us with it. I had my lieutenant, T. L. Baker, help me to put this book together, this larger book, I think you have a copy of it there, and to make some additional books like this.Of course, we worked the whole office ever since it happened so it is hard to say just who helped.

thanks Ron... and yeah... between the FBI taking and not taking the microfilm, as well as having a copy of it made and returned to Waldman... man I'd love to see that film. by Saturday mid morning, the FBI had laid out they didn't have the records for the right rifle.... so Sunday rolls around.. and upon further review.... what we couldn't find Friday or Saturday... we found it.... kind of... We also have Harry Holmes' ridiculous story.... and then there's this guy...

Photographer:Eugene George Date:01/06/1983

Thanks Buddy.. I'm going thru the 84 pages of photos now in fact...

When was this taken Tony? Who's image is it? Dallas Archive? Thanks... if you can find the 3rd 4th and 5th floor interior images.... I've never seen this one... with the completed floor Would love to know it that same block is out of the 2nd set of windows... the elevator ventilation has to escape out somewhere at the top and the bottom.... Thx DJ

Every wonder why your Oswald in the window has no body - and the windows are disgustingly dirty... Let me show you something Lewis... I did this to show that most any random set of light and shadows can be made to look like something is there when it isn't.. Case in Point: Kneeling bush boy. Now we both know there was no one kneeling at that spot in the Moorman image... or any other image for that matter... But if you knew no better, you could argue that this was a real person.... it's not. And then there is the non-existent "Badgeman-woman-child" which is simply the sky, leaves and sunlight. But that man in the hat to the west WAS real and right where the footprints in the mud and on the bumper were found.... FWIW Between the dirt, artifacts and generations of images... conclusions are virtually pointless.... There is a pile of evidence that there were 2 men on the 6th floor up to and thru the assassination.... one in a white t-shirt, the other in a brown sport coat and horn-rimmed glasses.... both were seen leaving the TSBD... So maybe instead of p!$$!ng into the wind on this one... dig a little deeper into what actually happened from 12:30 - 1pm... You'd be amazed at the extent of the lying from Shelley, Lovelady, Piper, Truly... I beg to differ Keyvan... as I showed above... random patterns can be made to be almost anything... and once seen - it becomes virtually impossible to UN-see it that way. Where is the man's body? Why do you not take any of the artifacts and dirt into account as you "see" Oswald... Could it be someone else? Maybe the T-shirt man from the WEST Window? Below left corner is what a person in a window looks like: Head, Body, Legs, Arms.... I've always found David Healy to be extremely reliable when it comes to what could and couldn't be done with film.... then again we ain't gonna learn what we don't wanna know DJ

Enough with stuffing a round peg into a square hole guys.... Odds and what y'all are discussing are mutually exclusive. The only true statement so far is: What's worse is that the odds of numerous, different things happening is the product of multiplying the individual odds of each event... if one could even do odds for the individual events... You'd have a better chance getting Ozzie to Mexico or proving he ever touched C2766 or any other Carcano for that matter.

Well... sort of. You've skipped ahead already though... Where did the shot you are concerned with, come from? IOW - What is the finite # of possibilities as to the location of the shooter? How many windows overlook Dealey Plaza that have the POTENTIAL to be used as a sniper's perch? How many different people had access to each one of those locations? See? Before we even get rolling we are hit with an impossible task given the actual FACTS as opposed to the WCR. Even if we were to accept shots from the 6th floor window AND that Oswald pulled the trigger... there aren't any finite sets of #'s we can define that gets him from one place to the next. This mind-problem is not one that can be expressed as a probability in real terms until we define and accept a set of basic facts... which, sadly, all these years later is still difficult to do. Only with those things which are Objective can we create a probability.... Probability = the number of ways of achieving success. the total number of possible outcomes.

Hey there Tony... I do Odds for a living.... What "odds" are you trying to calculate here? Person X "not knowing" either victim is not calculable at all... and how does that have anything to do with odds? To determine the odds of something happening we have to find sets of finite numbers to explain the situation... and then we need to determine which formulas to use based on the number of possibilities. Let's start at the beginning.... Person A is shot by person X. You ask - what are the odds of Person X not knowing Person A... (what does that mean in reference to Oswald and JFK? that they didn't dine together or that each was aware of the other's existence/presence? Maybe if you rephrase the Q? the first ODDS Question could be: What are the Odds that it is person X and not person Y who did the shooting? Is there a FINITE # SET that we can apply to find the total population of those who COULD have shot Person A? Sure we can... Do we know for a FACT from which way the shot originated so that we can begin removing #'s from the set... in our case many agree the shot which killed Person A came from the front and to the right where there could not have been more than 30 people in a position to accomplish such a feat. Yet, one of the facts is that our person X was behind Person A... the odds of Person X shooting Person A from the front are ZERO. So let's assume the shot is agreed to have come from the same direction person X was in relation to Person A.... what happens to the finite set of #'s now? How many people are behind Person A with the ability to shoot a rifle... Sadly this is yet another FACT which we cannot know... the # of windows, the # of spectators, the different kinds of rifles/silencers available... etc... And this is just the very first part of the first half of the question! Events like these are not something that ODDS can explain Tony.... "Astronomical Odds" has no real meaning if the event being observed is not from a finite set of possibilities based on agreed upon FACTS... Cinque/Fetzer tried to pull an odds statement out of the Prayerman issue... based on what may or may not have been changed in the Altgens photo.... and whether or not visual things "matched" or not... can't be done. Define the # universe we are in... THEN we can do odds... ===== Google: hypergeometric distribution. this is how we figure Odds for things like Powerball where you have 2 matrices, without replacement of the numbers chosen and millions and millions of combinations of plays. Matching 5 of 5 numbers with the Lottery picking 5 numbers from 69 AND matching 1 of 1 with the lottery choosing 1 of 26 gives odds of around 300,000,000 : 1 . Excel does the math for you luckily. There is also the Poisson distribution which is applied to very large number problems

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/docid-32309706.pdf Hi again Steve... came across an ACSI Lt. Col from a January 1960 FBI memo that is talking about who could run a coup in Cuba and replace Castro Gen Pedraza has none of the confidences needed and they are hearing about MASFERRER, MIRANDA, and/or NORMAN ROTHMAN and associates "ACSI - Lt. Col MAURICE METCALF - duty officer with State, CIA, ONI, & OSI... FWIW - cheers DJ

At the following link are files related to the PITTMAN's travel thru Paris & UK to get to Visas to Moscow They date from Oct 5, 1959 thru Oct 16, 1959 and are HEAVILY REDACTED.... https://www.maryferrell.org/php/showlist.php?docset=1648&sort=date&page=3 Why such heavy redaction related to a writer and his wife via Paris, UK, train to Moscow....?