Vince Palamara

8 hours ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

@Vince Palamara Who reported the dead secret service man first?

THAT I am not sure of.

7 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

Seymour Hersh interviewed several agents for his 1997 book, "The Dark Side of Camelot".

 

One of the agents he inteviewed was William McIntyre, who rode on the left side of the followup car during the Dallas motorcade behind Clint Hill.

McIntyre said he and some of his colleagues on the White House detail "felt abused by their service on behalf of President Kennedy."

McIntyre cited the blatant procurement of prostitutes "by the President" in the presence of the agents as a slap in the face.

"...as a sworn law enforcement officer you're asking yourself,' Well what do they think of us ? ' When that occurs, the agent would feel that his authority and his reason for being there was nullified." ( pg. 241 )

Procurement of prostitutes is a crime and these crimes were being committed right in front of the agents.

How did they know these women weren't spies ?

How did they know they weren't carrying a weapon ?

How did they know they weren't going to bite the President in the genitals ?

Having been a law professional myself I understand how it had to have been a terrible blow to their morale.

16 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

Thank you, Vince. Great reply. Have you done a separate thread on this? Might be worth it. Also, did I miss something, or how does Chuck Robertson have a date of death as Feb 12th 1982? 

Well, that just goes to show that he WAS a real person (as was Inez), although he obviously didn't die (but allegedly disappeared). I am inclined to believe that this was merely a ruse to invoke federal jurisdiction, as the murder of a president was not then a federal crime (just a state---Texas---crime), but the murder of an AGENT was a federal crime. It makes you think but there has never been a solid candidate for the dead agent. I know- I looked for one.

1 hour ago, Chris Barnard said:

@Vince Palamaraseeing as you are our most esteemed SS expert, I have a question. Some early news reports suggest an SS man was injured or hurt during the JFKA. Which perhaps ties in to the pool of blood soda pop mystery near the steps by the fence. As far as you can tell, between say June 1st 63 and Nov 22nd 63, are there any SS agents featured on detail in that period, that never feature again afterwards? I know there was an agent who supposedly died weeks before the JFKA which may or may not be significant. 
Do you have any thoughts? 

The agent you are referring to at the end:

Oh, yes--I am much aware of these reports. Lengthy excerpt from my first book SURVIVOR'S GUILT:

Secret Service/PRS employee James K. “Jack” Fox: Information obtained by the late agent’s sole confidante, researcher/disc jockey Mark Crouch. Crouch provided several autopsy photos obtained by Fox to director Oliver Stone for use in the movie JFK, and to director Wolfgang Peterson for In The Line of Fire, among other projects). During interviews conducted on 1/28/92 and 9/23/92 respectively, the author obtained startling new information. First, some necessary background is needed: All three major television networks,ABC, NBC, & CBS, reported that, “A Secret Service agent and a Dallas policeman were shot and killed” on 11/22/63. Eddie Barker, of CBS affiliate KRLD-TV, noted, “The word is that the President was killed, one of his agents is dead, and Governor Connally was wounded.” ABC News in Washington reported, “A Secret Service agent apparently was shot by one of the assassin’s bullets.” ABC’s Bill Lord stated, “ [I] did confirm the death of the secret service agent … one of the Secret Service agents was killed … Secret Service agents usually walk right beside the car,” And that, “One of the Secret Service agents traveling with the President was killed today.” The Associated Press (AP) was quoted on WFAA (ABC):”A Secret Service agent and a Dallas policeman were shot and killed some distance from where the President was shot.” At 12:45 p.m. CST, KRLD-TV reported that a Secret Service agent had been killed along with the President. At 1:23 p.m., CST, CBS’s Walter Cronkite reported, “A Secret Service man was also killed in the fusillade of shots.” 219 Clues To The Contingency Seth Kantor, a reporter for Scripps-Howard, would write in his notebook, which was published by the Warren Commission “They even have to die in secret.”26 At 2:14 p.m., the AP again made note: “A Secret Service Agent and a Dallas policeman were shot and killed today.” At 2:40 p.m., The Dallas Police radio, channel two, also carried the story: “One of the Secret Service men on the field—Elm and Houston, said that it came over his Teletype that one of the Secret Service men had been killed.”27 The Dallas Times Herald, dateline November 22, 1963, added, “From the Secret Service office in Dallas—a spokesman could neither confirm or deny the report: ‘All I’ve heard is the same reports you’ve heard’.” However, at 3:40 p.m. Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Robert A. Wallace reported, “No Secret Service man was injured in the attack on President Kennedy,” a denial of sorts, but it does not indicate if one was killed, or if there was violence at another location. Still, these stories could have supplied the Secret Service with the much-needed jurisdiction to take over and steal the body of JFK from the Dallas authorities, which in fact is what they did. Remember, while the murder of the President was not a federal crime in 1963, the murder of a Secret Service agent was.28 Perhaps this explains the proliferation of the tale of the “dead” agent on 11/22/63. However, this author learned from Crouch that Agent Fox stated that the story was true! According to Crouch, Fox29 was working in the Executive Office Building, where the PRS was headquartered, on 11/22/63, when he was asked by SAIC of PRS Robert Bouck to ready a detail of four to six agents to assist in retrieving the body and casket of the unnamed Secret Service agent. Fox told Crouch, “We lost a man that day – our man,” and qualified his remarks by stating that he was not referring to JFK.30 And though she had heard the news reports that the President’s limousine raced to Parkland Hospital after the shooting, Mrs. Bill Greer thought for several hours that her husband had perished that day! Since she knew that Greer was the driver of JFK’s car, this appears to be a strange admission.31 Interestingly, journalist Seth Kantor reported, “A Western Union man who had been with us since we came down from Andrews Air 220 Survivor’s Guilt Force Base came into the [Parkland Hospital] office. A nurse asked him about a report that a Secret Service agent had been killed out on the street. He said that it was true. This was one of the immediate rumors, which sprung up. It took several days for this particular rumor not to be believed in Dallas itself (Fellow in Jaggars-ChilesStovall who got it from a friend who got it from a postman supposed to have been at the death scene that the shot and bleeding SS man was in on the plot to kill the President.)” [emphasis added]32 Jaggars-Chiles-Stoval employed Lee Harvey Oswald from 10/12/62 until 4/6/63. This company did photographic work for the U-2 spy program, and Oswald’s starting date of employment coincided with the Cuban Missile Crisis.33 Nurse Bertha Lozano wrote in her report that, in addition to JFK and Connally, “A technician came to the desk and asked me to expect a private patient who was bleeding … Blood technicians came to ask me who ‘Mr. X’ was who did not have an E.R. number. Hematology also came with the same problem and was told the same thing.”34 Jerry Coley of the Dallas Morning News, his friend Charles Mulkey, Dallas Morning News photographer Jim Hood, and WFAA cameraman Malcolm Couch saw a significant pool of blood between the Texas School Book Depository and the pergola on the knoll.35 Author Harrison Livingstone reported in his 2000 online book, Stunning New Evidence, that Jim Pearsu of the Secret Service believed there was indeed a dead agent. Regarding the “postman” and other information noted by reporter Kantor, The 1/22/77 issue of The Continuing Inquiry journal contains an article written by Penn Jones and Gary Shaw regarding the dead agent incident as reported in a letter sent to Jim Garrison during the Clay Shaw trial: “A Mr. Robertson, Assistant Director of the Dallas or Fort Worth Secret Service office, confided to [friend of writer who requested anonymity] in 1963 that a plot to kill President Kennedy was planned and he did not want any part of it. On November 22, 1963, my friend was in the office of Mr. Robertson when all phones began to ring, about the time Kennedy was arriving at Carswell Air Force Base [in Fort Worth], Mr. Robertson then said, ‘Well, this is it’ and left the office. Since that time Mr. Robertson’s family of seven children and wife have not seen or heard from him, yet his paychecks continue to be mailed to his home. Our 1965 investigation lead us to believe Robertson was 221 Clues To The Contingency in Dallas but was posing as a postal inspector, but it was reported to us that he had left Dallas. We also learned from newsmen that something unusual did happen on Harwood [street] shortly before the turn to Main Street. No one wanted credit for this, but we were told by reliable newsmen that a man jumped in front of Kennedy’s car on Harwood shouting, ‘Stop, I must tell you.’ The man, according to their report, was promptly wrestled to the ground and hustled away.” [emphasis added] To the author’s great surprise, there are three reports that seem to corroborate the above article, in conjunction with the overlooked Kantor report: The first is the actual letter sent to Garrison from an “Amy Britvar” dated 2/21/68 and originating from Turtle Creek Blvd. in Dallas, Texas.36 An internet people-search for Britvar drew a blank, although there are other Britvars in Texas. The second is a Treasury Department (U.S. Customs Service) document, dated 1/17/80, from Joseph G. Forrester, U.S. Customs, to Attorney General Benjamin R. Civiletti.37 The letter reads in part, “My interest in the Kennedy murder started in 1966 when I met an Air Force Master Sergeant at St. Albans Naval Hospital, Queens, New York. This sergeant, an elderly man, was suffering from terminal cancer. He stated that on November 22,1963 he was attached to Air Force One as an electronics technician. He further stated that after the President was shot a message was received over a military frequency that multiple assassins had attacked the President … a Secret Service agent, Mr. Robertson, stationed in the Dallas-Fort Worth area disappeared on November 22, 1963 yet his family still receives his paychecks. The disappearance of an individual is not unusual except that it has been said that Mr. Robertson became aware of an assassins plot against the president. An assassin plot had been unearthed in Chicago a short time before President Kennedy’s Dallas trip. Please do not misconstrue this letter. I am not a crank; but I am sincerely interested in this crucial investigation. I am willing to join an investigative team and if that is not possible, will make myself available for an interview by investigative officers.” The third is a lengthy memorandum written by Vince Salandria, dated 1/31/67, regarding an interview with Rita Rollins, a Navy nurse with an interesting story to tell. The crucial part reads, “The name of the person in Dallas … is Inez Robertson. Chuck Robertson, her husband, works at the post office … Inez Robertson, actually 222 Survivor’s Guilt saw them [men with guns] make a breakdown of the rifles. This tall man with long grey or white hair [-] he was in the station wagon. There is a luggage rack on the station wagon. It was a Rambler station wagon. This fellow with the mixed grey hair carried them [the armed men] to the airport … This tall man had been around Dallas the day before the assassination … This episode has caused friction between Chuck Robertson and Inez Robertson. He is not in Dallas now.”3

57 minutes ago, Gil Jesus said:

You're right. I stand corrected.

No problem

7 hours ago, George Govus said:

Yes, and all the people on the Triple Underpass, who shouldn't have been there, could have given him pause. On the other hand, you have Greer's son, interviewed by Vince, attempting to rationalize his father's behavior that day. Greer was Protestant Irish, he explained; Kennedy, Catholic.

THAT was such a weird yet exhilarating moment when I interviewed his only son (child) Richard. "What did your father think of JFK?" No response; super awkward. I went on to ask other questions which he was happy to answer at length. I then returned to the question "What did your father think of JFK?" He then answered: "Well, we're Methodists...and JFK was Catholic." (!) 

22 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

Mike Wallace of KLRD-TV was the announcer talking

about the McKinley assassination during

the live coverage of the presidential breakfast event in

Fort Worth on November 22, 1963 (no, not the better-known Mike Wallace).

Bob Walker, the station manager and news director of WFAA-TV in Dallas,

also went on about assasinations during his live coverage of

President Kennedy's arrival at Love Field. The concern was "in the air."

Thanks for the info!

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

If the Warren Commission had been an actual trial, and even half of what is known today was discovered by the defense, they should have called Roberts and raked him and Greer over the coals.

Agreed! Definitely.

1 hour ago, Gil Jesus said:

Vince, thanks for the  video on your three suspects. Really powerful stuff. I wish I would have seen it before I put together this narrative, it would have saved me a lot of research time. LOL  Great job as usual. Funny how there were seven agents in the followup car but only Roberts and Hill were called to give testimony.

Thanks! No--JUST Hill! No one else. Lawson and Sorrels from the lead car. Greer and Kellerman from the limo. Only Hill from the follow-up car. Rufus Youngblood from LBJ's limo.

6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

You are probably correct on that score Vince.  The JFK case was such a milestone historically and there are so many visuals that it simply will not recede. 

Although the powers that be would sure like to mangle the facts about it.

Vince gave me some help on my upcoming article at K and K, Fletcher Prouty vs the ARRB. Which will be a real eye opener in more ways than one.

He is unselfish in that regard, as he gave Rob Wilson and Oliver help on both versions of the film. 

I tip my hat to him.

Thanks a lot, Jim; my pleasure!

19 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Remember how they always say, who is interested in the JFK case, it happened 60 years ago.

Well, the first part of Bob Fox's review got almost 16,000 impressions in one day on Twitter.

Evidently, a lot of people are interested. 😇

Judging by the rabid interest I receive from my You Tube channel alone, interest is alive and well. A part of my brain has always wondered (post 20th century, post 9/11, post 50th anniversary, etc.) when a time will come when people will lose interest. Then it dawned on me: have people "lost interest" in WWI? WW II? The Civil War? Lincoln's life and his death [look at the amazing reaction to the 2012 film "Lincoln"]? I feel there will always be a strong interest in the case. There are so many audio/visuals of Kennedy's life and death that this helps from it feeling "ancient", as well [not to mention the millions of people around the world who still remember his life and death at the time]. He is also our last assassinated president---it is not like Garfield or McKinley: their deaths have largely receded from an interest standpoint. They also weren't young, beloved, and the visuals regarding them are very few and far between (and they DO look ancient...because they are!).

NOTE: there is still ONE major Kennedy resource out there that hasn't been mined: JFK's complete and uncut press conferences---ALL of them; black and white broadcast quality video. The networks (and/or JFK Library?) have to have them. I don't mean all the snippets...all the actual uncut conferences. It is 2022 and they are still not out.

Greer was a trained driver. He may not have had the intensive training that modern agents have had as a RESPONSE to his horrible inaction, but he most definitely was trained and was a veteran driver for Truman, Ike, and JFK 1961-11/22/63. Inspector Thomas Kelley confirmed that he received training during his testimony before the HSCA.

15 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

I write about the melon and skull tests on my website. The melon test on Penn and Teller's BS was BS. If you look closely, a round melon is sitting on a small table with a small centralized base. The impact of the bullet expands the melon on its exit side and rocks the table slightly forward, and the explosion of the goo unbalances the melon, with a big hole on the exit side. This causes the melon to roll back towards the shooter at the same time the table is falling back into place. The result? The melon rolls off the table in the direction of the shooter. 

I think they knew damn well what they were doing They were professional tricksters after all. Dr. Lattimer may have just been ignorant. In any event, his skull tests were also BS. By putting the skulls on ladders, the forward impact was absorbed by the ladder, which rocked forward each and every time while the skulls essentially bounced off the ladder back towards the shooter. 

The ladder goes forward!

2 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

You got it, gentleman Vince! Thanks! 

3 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I agree completely S.T. Even though the NSS and the CIA is to me the most likely in a plurality of possible choices. It's also become self serving to some authors who promulgate it to insist that an ongoing conspiracy  with full knowledge of the assassination has been oppressing us to  to this day. That there are people who know who killed JFK and are either 1)secret elites who have passed it on generation to generation. or 2)Deep State Government bureaucrats who have passed the secrets on to incoming bureaucrats or 3)Corporate interests who had a hand in the JFKA who have passed it down to their corporate heads. The story line is that they live in fear that the 60 year old plot be exposed as if the entire infrastructure of government will then radically change and there will no longer be an Intelligence or Security apparatus. When I've asked specifically  about how this is being done on any of the levels, by the elites, the Deep State government or on the Corporate level, no one can ever come up with any support for their ideas..  And yet to hold on to such beliefs with no factual support is often a comfort to those hold to that.

This is only to add another layer to why there is this "circle the wagons"  mentality you mention. There is a protection of an ongoing narrative  in this period that gives real influence and sells books.

It's become so stultified. For example ,with Greg's recent posts concerning the Paines, While I do realize it is an integral, though not critical element to one JFKA narrative. Whether you agree with Greg or not. The resistance to any new ideas or revision is a bit over the top!

I've used the analogy, though I admit not a very good one,  that the JFKAC community is forever piling up grains of sand on a sedimentary bedrock. In some  cases I ask,. Is the dogma so worth hanging on to? If you blow off the dogma would you believe there was a conspiracy to kill JFK 1-2-3% less? 

****

Joe, both Vince and Greg are gracious about it. It's understandable no one has time to read everything. And Vince misportrayed Greg as an "Oswald did it alone" theorist. Which he clearly isn't.

@Greg Doudna My apologies!  Let's all get along! Thanks, Kirk.

8 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

A distinguished scholar such as Vince Palamara, who has

written a number of important books on the case, does not

need advice on his reading comprehension, "joking"

or otherwise.

Thanks!

On 5/11/2022 at 2:00 AM, Greg Doudna said:

Speaking of Cops USA in the old days, I found this which happened the very same day in Fort Worth. Secret Service agent Mike Howard from the Dallas office loved to regale audiences in later years with how on Nov 22, 1963, he got an arrested kid who wasn't talking, to talk by putting a loaded revolver into his face and threatening to kill him if he did not talk, in the presence of other officers. Howard telling it in later years thought it was just hilarious, chortled how that changed things in a hurry and the kid, scared, "sang like a canary". Law enforcement humor.

The setup to the story: the kid had done no crime. He had been heard responding to the news of the assassination by making a joke, "That's one way to get rid of a Catholic". That and a scoped rifle sitting openly in his car (picked up from a gun shop for delivery to his father) prompted someone to call the law to check that kid out. Turned out the kid was clean and OK, although he was married and had spent the previous night in downtown Dallas with a woman not his wife, which is why he was unwilling to talk about where he was last night. Because the hotel where the young man had stayed had overlooked the JFK parade route the Secret Service was alerted and Mike Howard sent out. Howard arrives to the Fort Worth police station and--

". . . they had already interviewed him. The police department, the homicide, had interviewed him, and a good friend of mine, who was an FBI agent, Carter, Agent Carter, he was--I refer to him as an old timer--I think he was 45 or 50--But anyway, he had already interviewed him, and he came out, when I walked up he said, 'Mike, this kid don't know anything. He won't tell us anything, but he's just a dumb kid.' I said, 'Well I'd better talk to him.' 'Yeah, go and talk to him.' 

"So I went in to talk to him, and I did a--uh, something that they should have arrested me right on the spot for. But I asked him what his name was. He said, 'I don't have to tell you that.' I said, 'No sir you don't.' So I took my ID out and I said, My name is Agent Howard. I'm from the US Secret Service. I've got to ask you a couple of questions. So I put my book back up and I said, So could you tell me where you were last night. And he said, 'No I don't have to tell you anything.' Now here's a kid--I was 31 years old at the time--I hadn't had any sleep, I'm hungry, I wanted to see my wife and family, I didn't like it because my president was on the way to Washington in a casket, and I didn't have time for this man. And so I just reached in my coat and I was carrying a .38 revolver and I stuck it right up against his face just as close as I could get it to his nose. I should have--that's a federal offense you know, you can't do that, that's violating their civil rights--but I didn't know that at the time. (smiling) But I didn't really care.

"So again I'm gonna ask you and you'e gonna answer these questions because you know if you don't I could blow your head off, and nobody would care. I said, nobody's gonna care. Our president has been killed, and you're making fun of it and you don't want to answer any questions. Now you let me know when you get through telling because, you know, if you haven't said what I want you to, you could, you could lose it.

"And boy, you talk about sweat. Now he broke into a sweat and he began to--I've heard the --"singing like a canary". Anyway I asked him who he was, he told me. I asked who'd you have with you. 'I picked up this girl over at the Blue Mirror.' And I said where'd you get the gun. 'Its my father's gun. I was sent to pick it up there at this gun shop and I was taking it back home.' Where's home? 'Ranger, Texas.' Are you married? 'Yes I'm married.' I said well what are you doing here now? So finally I took my gun and put it down and said, Thank you very much. You know you could have got this over with a long time ago.

"And I walked outside and--(chuckling turning into laughter)--Agent Carter, his name was Dan Carter, he says, Mike, would you really have shot him? I said, come on, I wouldn't, you know I wouldn't have done a thing like that. But this police sergeant that I'd worked several cases with there on counterfeiting and forgery, he said, 'Yes you would'. And I said, no really, I don't think I would have shot him. And again-- (laughing)--so anyway I got by with it."

(Starting at about 1:16)

Agent Howard is a man of dubious credibility, to put it mildly.

Former Secret Service agent Mike Howard is telling tall tales again:

Lee Harvey Oswald’s little green book shows JFK wasn't the real target - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

In the hours after the Kennedy assassination, after Lee Harvey Oswald shot and killed Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit and was identified as the president’s assassin, a Secret Service officer named Mike Howard was dispatched to Oswald’s apartment. Howard found a little green address book, and on its 17th page under the heading “I WILL KILL” Oswald listed four men: an FBI agent named James Hosty; a right-wing general, Edwin Walker; and Vice President Richard Nixon. At the top of the list was the governor of Texas, John Connally. Through Connally’s name, Oswald had drawn a dagger, with blood drops dripping downward.

This is the same guy who fabricated a story that a janitor saw LHO pull the trigger:

https://vincepalamara.com/2017/07/27/update-with-news-article-secret-service-agent-mike-howards-tall-tale-to-match-blaine/

Secret Service agent Mike Howard and brother Pat deliberately planted story that a janitor saw LHO pull trigger
25 H 721-722, 725, 844-850:re: Secret Service agent Mike Howard and brother Pat and the allegation that they deliberately planted story that a janitor saw LHO pull trigger [see the link to the pages quoted above from volume 25]

Check out the scathing comments for Mr. Howard under this video on You Tube. Howard loves them tall tales to weave for the gullilbe!

6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

This is unfortunate.

I just learned there will be no DVD distributed directly in the UK.

Get this: the reason is they don't make money on them.

Wow.  This is how much the market has changed.  I guess streaming has knocked off the DVD market in a really significant way.  I remember the days when DVD ruled. Movies made more money on that sometimes than they did theatrically.

So I guess if you live in UK, you will have to order from either the USA or Australia.  Down under they are going with a DVD release.  Man did Oliver just take over that continent with this documentary.  The four hour one went over like gangbusters there.  Thanks to the Aussies.  The gift that keeps on giving.

I love DVDs and Blu Rays and, as with cds, I must have a physical copy; the heck with streaming or the cloud. Having said that, I noticed a huge discount bin of DVDs the other day at Walmart with many high profile A-list movies included, so they weren't just cruddy B or C movies.

18 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

Maybe you can work a little harder on your reading comprehension issues going forward LOL.

LOL...not.