Antti Hynonen

Duke, Great post, lots of detail. Question 1: Did Oswald ever deny boarding the bus or did he ever deny having obtained a bus transfer ticket that day? Question 2: Assuming Oswald did have a bus transfer ticket, and assuming he obtained it as the WC claimed and as the transfer ticket in evidence indicates, what further destination would he have needed the transfer for? More questions: Wouldn't McWatters' bus have taken him to Harlandale, I mean close enough to his room at North Beckley? What was his likely destination after N. Beckley? Didn't his landlady at N. Beckley say that she saw him out the window at the bus stop across the street shortly after 1 p.m. on 11/22/63?

Hi, Just to clarify: Richard R. Carr was a construction worker who observed from some distance a man in the TSBD window. He later got a closer look at the man, as quite apparently this same man ran out of the TSBD and towards Carr and then got into a Rambler sw. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKcarrR.htm A high school kid who witnessed two people together at the TSBD, and one of them holding a rifle (Arnold Rowland): http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKrowland.htm Just to throw in my 2 cents, I do believe that both the Rowland and Carr testimonies are in all likelyhood honest testimonies and I do find them useful. Another high school kid, who was an (important) witness is Amos Euins: http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/euins.htm From the above: Mr. EUINS. I was standing here on the comer. And then the President come around the corner right here. And I was standing here. And I was waving, because there wasn't hardly no one on the corner right there but me. I was waving. He looked that way and he waved back at me. And then I had seen a pipe, you know, up there in the window, I thought it was a pipe, some kind of pipe. Mr. SPECTER. When had you first seen that thing you just described as a pipe? Mr. EUINS. Right as he turned the corner here. 203 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. SPECTER. Now, exactly where did you see that thing you have described as a pipe come from. And take a good look now before you tell us where it was. Mr. EUINS. Right here. Mr. SPECTER. Now, will you mark an "X" on Exhibit No. 366 where you saw the pipe? Mark the exact window, if you can, Amos. (Witness marking.) Mr. SPECTER. All right. Proceed to tell us what happened, Amos. Mr. EUINS. Then I was standing here, and as the motorcade turned the corner, I was facing, looking dead at the building. And so I seen this pipe thing sticking out the window. I wasn't paying too much attention to it. Then when the first shot was fired, I started looking around, thinking it was a backfire. Everybody else started looking around. Then I looked up at the window, and he shot again. So--you know this fountain bench here, right around here. Well, anyway, there is a little fountain right here. I got behind this little fountain, and then he shot again. So after he shot again, he just started looking down this, you know. Mr. SPECTER. Who started looking down that way? Mr. EUINS. The man in the window. I could see his hand, and I could see his other hand on the trigger, and one hand was on the barrel thing. Mr. SPECTER. All right. Now, at the time the second shot was fired, where were you looking then? Mr. EUINS. I was still looking at the building, you know, behind this--I was looking at the building. Mr. SPECTER. Looking at anything special in the building? Mr. EUINS. Yes, sir. I was looking where the barrel was sticking out. Mr. SPECTER. How many shots did you hear altogether? Mr. EUINS. I believe there was four, to be exact. Mr. SPECTER. Now, where were you looking at the time of the third shot, if you remember? Mr. EUINS. After he shot the first two times, I was just standing back here. And then after he shot again, he pulled the gun back in the window. And then all the police ran back over here in the track vicinity.

Mr. Mack kindly corrected Don's and my recollection of the film discussed prior and it is fact the Darnell film, not the Couch film. His message to me enclosed; Antti, The film was shot by WBAP-TV photographer Jimmy Darnell, not WFAA-TV's Malcolm Couch. The Darnell film, which exists only as a first generation print, as far as is known, was recently acquired by The Sixth Floor Museum.

Don, quite so. Must have been the Malcolm Couch film, I was trying to recall. Malcolm C. has likely caught on film the man with the gun under his overcoat that Malcolm S. had described seeing. Must have been one of the government (IRS or postal inspector) "agents" like the fellow with the dirty hands that made Officer Smith think of an auto mechanic after considering what he had seen.... makes sense that someone inspecting letters or parcels or tax returns has dirty hands.... no? "Outside the Depository, some witnesses later claimed they ran into Secret Service agents. Since there were no Secret Service agents at Dealey until 1:00 P.M., when Forrest Sorrels returned from Parkland Hospital, could that mean that somebody was impersonating Secret Service agents, indicating a conspiracy? Most of the witnesses later admitted they were mistaken. And immediately after the assassination, different groups of law enforcement officials (most of them having been there to watch the motorcade from nearby government buildings) spread out in Dealey Plaza--they included Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agents, postal inspectors, officers from the Special Service Bureau of the Dallas Police, county sheriffs, IRS agents, and even an Army intelligence agent. . . . The author has reviewed the 1963 badges for the above organizations, and found that several look alike. Any of those law enforcement officials could have been confused with Secret Service agents. " (Posner 269) http://www.jfklancer.com/ManWho.html

http://www.jfklancer.com/ManWho.html Please see the article in the link above. I don't want to divert the thread too much, but will suggest that perhaps one or more of the "false agents" as described in the piece above, may have been the same indivuals as in one or more of the "suspicious" cars seen in the parking lot and as described by Lee Bowers Jr. Also the man with the overcoat covering his arm (and a weapon, see link above, Malcolm Summers) could very well be the man seen in the black and white footage taken at the fence immediately following the assassination, this footage also features a shot of Buddy Walters and some footage of a dark liquid seen on the concrete. The name of this footage/the name of the person recording this escapes me.

Don, The events in the parking lot and the railroad yard are interesting indeed. I am not much of a photoanalyst, but do find the numerous witness statements very interesting. One of the more interesting ones being Officer Joe Smith's encounter with a Secret Service agent (supposedly none were present in Dealey) that day, immediately following the shootings. Of course this statement was never investigated nor were any attempts made to identify and interview the person claiming to be SS to officer Smith (as far as i know). Dallas Police Officer Joseph Smith "After the shooting, Dallas Police officer Joe M. Smith encountered another suspicious man in the lot behind the picket fence [on the grassy knoll]. Smith told the Warren Commission that when he drew his pistol and approached the man, the man "showed [smith] that he was a Secret Service agent." (WC Vol. VII, pg. 535; see interview of Joseph M. Smith, Feb. 8, 1978, House Select Committee on Assassinations (JFK Document 005886).) "I looked into all the cars and checked around the bushes. Of course, I wasn't alone. There was some deputy sheriff with me, and I believe one Secret Service man when I got there. I got to make this statement, too. I felt awfully silly, but after the shot and this woman, I pulled my pistol from my holster, and I thought, this is silly, I don't know who I am looking for, and I put it back. Just as I did, he showed me that he was a Secret Service agent." (Warren Commission Hearings, Vol. VII, pg.. 531)

Wim, I don't think the first photo is of him. I thought the first one is a photo of the fellow who allegedly killed his parents and stored them in the fridge of his home. His name escapes me right now, but it was something like Rogers.

Hi Steve, Too lazy to translate the whole thing. Basically it says Buchanan believes there was a conspiracy and tha the true events have been kept hidden from the general public by the officials in charge. It mentions that as a potential accomplice the name "Scentor" has been mentioned (doesn't indicate by whom, could be Buchanan though), and that Scentor is a secretive, right-wing millionaire Cuban with ties to both Oswald and Ruby.

Thomas, The title of the thread is fixed. It does look like Billy Lovelady is in that office. I don't know whose office that is though. Is not Decker's, don't know? I would guess that the older man, Oswald is saying something to, is a reporter. It may be the reporter who asked Oswald: " Why did you shoot the President?" - or something to that effect. From Mae Brussel: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html Did you kill the President?" Oswald replied, "No. I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the hall asked me that question. . . . I did not do it. I did not do it. . . . I did not shoot anyone."

Don, perhaps the 567 and 569 could help support that in all likelyhood more than 3 bullets were fired. If we take into account that James Tague was hit by a fragment, Connaly was hit by more than one bullet (imo), Kennedy by more than one...... I already can see Tom coming to explain "facts" again. O-oo..

Moderators and the Administration of the Forum have decided that this thread will be locked. This thread and the subject area covered within is considered to be unsuitable in content, particularly as this section is for political conspiracies.

Jim, We've been in touch regarding various angles of this case and other events occuring prior, the communication has been very interesting and very educational for me. I read with great interest the connections you have made regarding numerous events and their timing. One question came to mind, it may be obvious, but it didn't click with me: What is the significance of Gen. Edwin Anderson Walker's fall from grace coinciding with Oswald's initial attempts to return to the US? Thanks. Antti

Exactly what I was thinking. Further, I do recall LHO in an interview in New Orleans (I recall) having to think about how to respond to a rather spontaneous question on marxism, his response was that of someone trying to recall the lines when playing a part in a play. Of course the defection to Russia just adds to this logical equation of a man who at the age of 17 years volunteers to enlist, who was so bummed he couldn't enlist at 16.....

I recall seeing interviews of Gerald Ford, regarding the JFK investigation, where he would repeat the final statement by the Commission, which was along the lines: "The Commission has not found any evidence indicating a conspiracy in the murder of President John F. Kennedy." Perhaps he meant by the "no problem" that the Commission would leave the report to President Johnson and the American people, with "clean hands" as they would add this clause to their report.

Memorizing the USMC manual as well as enlisting in the USMC, are of course actions which can be considered typical undertakings of communists/marxists.....

In 2 out of the 3 close up photos (windshield removed from vehicle) posted by Bernice it seems that the defect in the window is closer to the middle of the windshield than in the pictures where the windshield is attached to the vehicle. In the first photos taken after the incident the defect appears just slightly to the driver side of the top of the rear-view mirror - non towards the middle of the windshield as in the windshield removed photos. Hmmm...... The close ups do not clearly show a hole in either, were cameras and film really that poor in 1963??? Thanks for the photos.

Mike, Re: measurements, I was having trouble reading your presentation. I believe 1" means one inch, correct? Therefore 1 inch is 2,54 cm. This is 25,4 mm. 1mm= 1/25,4 of an inch. 2" would be 5,08cm or 50,8mm. 16mm. would be just around 5/8 of an inch or more precisely 16/25,4 of an inch. http://bluefive.pair.com/inches_to_cm_to_inches.htm Antti

Mike, thanks for your reply. http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/forensic.htm Any comments on the above? As for the damage to the limo overall being an indication of a conspiracy, you will have to expand on this a bit, as both the glass and chrome damage could come from a single shot passing through the rear of the head of JFK, fragmenting, and causing the damage. The total damage can be attributed to a single shot. Mike, I do agree that one shot could have caused damage to different areas of the vehicle, however most likely not a FMJ bullet as alleged by the WC. Perhaps my wording was off, as it leads the reader to believe that my opinion is that a hole in the windshield indicates a 4th shot (from the front, not an impossibility either), when in fact I wanted to allude to the likeliness of a 4th bullet having been one that fragmented, one of a different type that is. I don't believe that a FMJ bullet would fragment as seen in the x-rays and and other evidence. Therefore this evidence does not agree with the Carcano being the only weapon used for all the shooting done in Dealy Plaza that day. Therefore if 3 shots were fired from the Carcano, the damage caused by the fragments at the scene and in the victim is likely caused by a different weapon/bullet. Further, I do place more weight on the eyewitness statements regarding a hole in the windshield, than the photos I have seen depicting the limousine and windshield (which IMO do not contain enough detail to form a definitive opinion). By the way, do you consider the existance of a hole in the windshield, or alternatively the lack of a hole to be a key issue? If yes, how so, if I may ask? Also, do you consider you calculations regarding the precise size of the damaged area in the windshield to be accurate? I'm sure the size of the mirror is correct though - as you indicated. Thanks!

IMO there's not enough detail (or pixels) in the attached photos to determine whether the damaged area in the windshield shows a hole. More importantly IMO the existance of this defect (and the one in the trim of the windshield) indicates that most likely, there were more than 3 shots fired at the limo and it's occupants, thus indicating a conspiracy.

Ok, thanks. I will check with Simkin asap. Any others not complying must change their photos as well, that is the way I see it. If you can produce one of the same quality as Len's and showing as much of your face as in his, I'll consider that being in compliance. Antti

Bill, Ok, just for the heck of it, I'd like to know too. Since we have already asked him these and many other related questions too, and since he has had ample opportunity to answer, but hasn't, should we still pursue this? I can not think of a Forum rule which we could enforce to make him reply? Can you? I think this borders with the Forum rule of us not being allowed to inquire the motivations of a member.... I know he uses LenBrazil in his e-mail address, does that help? Antti

Quote:" EB: Maggie, What proof do you have that len is NOT using his real name? MH: Evan, this is your job not mine. Or John and Andy's. Leave me out of it please. #" Maggie we have exactly the same proof that Len is Len as we have that Maggie is Maggie. As far as I can tell we are quite happy with both sets of factual evidence!

Yes, actually I do. I do not belong to many forums but I use my name. It is also traditional for persons writing for 'peer reviewed' journals to use their real names and academic qualifications. As would be known to some here if not Len. No, I don't care what name Len uses anywhere else. Just here and that is the point. And you are all allowed to receive your plain brown paper wrapped magazines to your P.O. boxes as well. Really, I don't mind. Glad to se you stating the above. This being the case you should have no objections to posting a proper photograph as an avatar.

Bill, I have been a moderator since the moderators were initiated on this Forum. Here's Len's bio: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4878 (it appears at the bottom his each of his posts) Jack's posts are already being blocked as he has repeatedly failed to attach his bio to his signature on his profile. A couple of questions: How do you know that Len is not using his real name on this Forum? Where is Len using his call sign on this Forum? Thanks! Antti

Oh, I think I "get " everything quite well. Look, we have a set of rules on this Forum. Lately we moderators have been asked to enforce these, and that is waht we are doing. By the way if your avatar is not improved your posts will be blocked as well. As a reminder here are Forum rulesn (John Simkin): On the 12th November I posted a message about the behaviour of members. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2224 This in itself has been taken over by personal bickering. I have therefore decided to make a new statement about the aims and objectives of this forum and to stress the kind of behaviour that we expect from members. JFK Forum The main objective of this forum is to bring together researchers into the assassination of John F. Kennedy. It is hoped that this forum will enable researchers to share information they have acquired about the case. In this way, the forum will become a major way of communicating information about the assassination to the wider community (we have a far larger number reading the forum than those posting information). Rules of the JFK Forum (i) All members have to provide a biography. A link to this biography should be added to their signature (see below for instructions how to do this). http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1471 (ii) All members should use a photograph of themselves as an avatar (see below for instructions how to do this). If you still find you have problems with this please email me and I will help you with this. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1861 (iii) Wherever possible, members should give references (books, documents, etc) concerning the comments that they make. This will help those carrying out academic research into this area. (iv) Members should not make personal attacks on other members. Nor should references be made to their abilities as researchers. Most importantly, the motivations of the poster should not be questioned. At all times members should concentrate on what is being said, rather than who is saying it. It is up to the reader to look at the biography submitted by the poster, to judge whether they are telling the truth or not. The word “xxxx” is banned from use on the forum. (v) Members should take care over the accuracy of their postings. This includes spellings, capital letters, etc. This is important as the forum is read by young students and therefore we should not be setting them a bad example. I would suggest you write initially in a word processing program that automatically checks spellings, etc. The finished work can then be copied and posted into the forum. (vi) Make sure your postings are relevant to the thread. Please start another thread if your comments do not belong to any existing threads. (vii) When you start a thread please make sure it is relevant to the events surrounding the assassination of JFK. We have other areas of the forum where you can post about Politics, History, Mass Media, Sociology, etc. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?act=idx (viii) Members should use the quote function of the forum when replying to people’s posts. To do this click the REPLY button. Pressing this button will allow you to reply to a topic, and have the text from a particular reply quoted in your own reply. This can be edited so that only the relevant passage is included. If you want to reply to several postings, copy and paste the relevant comments into your own answer. To make this clear use the colour options to highlight what someone else is saying. Type in the name of the person after the quotation. (ix) It helps the reader if the text of your posts goes right across the page. If you find this has not happened, use the EDIT button to make sure it does. I do this for you whenever I can but I find it very time-consuming so I would prefer it if you did it yourself. (x) There is no need to add your own name to postings. The forum software does this automatically. Please feel free to add your comments about these rules. I welcome suggestions about other rules we might need. However, do not use this thread to reopen disputes with other members. If you do, they will be deleted. -------------------- John Simkin