Antti Hynonen

Lee, You say 4th floor window. I think the cop is looking out of a 5th floor though, and a window where one of the black fellows was earlier. Could be authentic. I wonder how the seller got this in his/her hands though.

Ok, what does that have to do with this thread; the question raised by Pat Speer?

Based on the signature and/or name below on the same page, I would say it was no one else but George DeMohrenschildt himself (just an opinion, not fact).

I thought LHO was stationed at El Toro in Santa Ana? About 35 miles from down-town LA?

Back to Tom's 3rd shot that hit the neck at the hairline and then the skull near the EOP, which occurred at the James Altgens location of the motorcade. Tom, the head's position at this time, as you demonstrated in a drawing posted prior, was showing that the head was in a very steep downward angle. I characterized it as a rather unnatural position (I say, unnatural even for a dying man). I also asked if there was any evidence, something like a still frame or a photo of this point in time that could verify this position? It would be meaningful for all following this thread, to also have explained this third shot in full. I am particularly interested in the path of the bullet and a drawing or diagram showing the complete path of this bullet, from the back of the neck at the hairline of JFK to Connally's back, below the shoulderblade. The rest of the bullet's path (before striking JFK and after is exuited JBC's chest) is quite clear to me. Thanks.

Bill, Buell Wesley Frazier was interviewed on the "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" series, one of the 1-6 shows, can't remember which one. The last time I checked Buell Wesley Frazier lived in Texas, the greater Dallas area, I recall.

Ok, I'll let everyone judge for themselves. With the complexity of the camera I meant, my opinion is that this model was not as easy to operate as the simplest cameras of the 1980's or 1990's for example. Of course I could be wrong. Expert opinion on the camera's operation would be welcomed. See link below for the backyard photos to judge the quality of the novice. http://www.famouspictures.org/mag/index.ph..._Backyard_Shots

Is there evidence of JFK's head being in the position at the time of the third shot, it seems to be a rather unnatural position?

Marcel, I think you raise a very important point. These were some of the first (if not the first) photos Marina took. Considering this, and the complexity of the camera, the photos turned out remarkably well. As far as I know, some 6 poses were taken, all relatively well focused, and otherwise well proportioned for a complete novice. Hey, after all Time magazine published one of them on the mag. cover! Ce sont pas de photos autenthiques, pas par Marina en tous cas.

I am asking members to use the "Report" function, found on the left hand side of each post, that is when they deem that there is something inappropriate in a post. It is a huge task for moderators to carefully follow and read each post, therefore I am officially requesting the help of members in "monitoring" posts. Thank you.

You guys are joking. Whoever compiled this website must have had some prescription meds. Read through the timeline. Find a few things quite astonishing, and these things, rather unbelievable: * Elvis meets and becomes friends with Shaw and Ferrie, who introduce him to New Orleans society. * Towards the end of his (Elvis') training he will attend a USO sponsored mixer and will meet Ruth Hyde Paine. They remain friends after his transfer to Germany. * Oswald celebrates his release from the Marines by attending a performance of "The Suttletones" at the Nevada Club in Las Vegas, NV. He meets the group's lead singer, Ann-Margret, who encourages him to defect to the USSR. * Elvis, eaten by hate, decides to murder Walker through a hired gunman. Ann-Margret arranges for Elvis to meet Oswald in Dallas, TX during a layover as Elvis returns from location after filming "Fun in Acapulco". * 22 February 1963, Elvis arranges for Paine to meet the Oswalds and take them under her wing. * Elvis, with assistance of Esposita, Fortas, Hodge, and West, assassinates JFK while the president's motorcade passes through Dealey Plaza in Dallas, TX. Infuriated by Elvis' rejection, Oswald murders Elvis look alike, Officer J.D.Tippit. Any vaid evidence to support any of this?

Tom, Ok, quite clear. How do you explain the origin of the shot versus the upward angle of the third bullet? That is as it's path is from C to B, in your illustration, is clearly up, not down. Also when taking into account that the earlier shot to the head is clearly in a downward angle and was possibly, logically fired from the 6th floor TSBD. Additonally the wound to the back of JFK, would according to this scenario be in a downward angle, furthermore the JBC wound (near shoulder blade to nipple) would be a downward angle. Why is the third one angled so differently?

I will submit a request to John Simkin to have those members placed on permanent moderation who threaten to expose (or expose) something unpleasant (and immaterial to the thread or case) about a fellow members past. Let this be a final warning.

Tom, Do you have in your materials, a drawing, or some sort of diagram, showing the final bullet's path (from TSBD, to JFK' neck - head to Connally). It would help a lot in terms of understanding exactly what you are explaining. Of particular interest would be the bullet's path from the point it strikes JFK to the point it strikes JBC. So if there is any way to enlarge this part? I can sort of understand how this final bullet could strike Connally (the angles ofthe bullet and Connally's position sort of make sense), although I still tend to lean towards a bullet striking his back much earlier that the Altgens position. Like I said earlier, I base my opinion on the Zapruder film and the testimony of the Connally's (although it is not in perfect harmony with the Zapruder film evidence). Right now, unfortunately, I can not understand, from your explanation, what happens to the bullet, nor it's flight path, from the point it hits JFK in the neck to when it hits JBC near his shoulder blade. Thanks. Antti

Jack, I can see your frustration and definitely there is a pattern. However, there is nothing that I know of that I can do to change this. Now, this thread is about "There Was No Bullet Wound in John F. Kennedy's Throat", lets try and keep it on topic. Thanks.

Sorry Jack, I don't know how to help you. I can see all pages just fine and can also see the attachments. Perhaps you can try another computer somewhere sometime? I bet your troubles will disappear with that trick.

Tom, Sorry for my delayed reply. Thanks for your further explanation. I'm still having trouble understanding this scenario. I can understand that you say that the third shot to the head occurred at the Altgens position and that this bullet also struck JBC. However, I have diffficulties in visualizing this bullets path. You say that: From this I can recap the following: 3rd bullet strike: JFK's head is relatively horizontal (you stated vertical in a prior post?), he is struck in the neck near the collar of his coat, this bullet travels through the soft tissues of the neck to enter the skull at the EOP... I can not visualize this happening, as it seems quite unrealistic to me. Not that most things in this case don't seem that way, but this is just, well, how should I say it, unbelievable to me. To back up a bit, the underlying assumption is that also this bullet is fired from the TSBD SW6 floor window. It is therefore traveling in a downward angle of say 10 degrees (just to make it simple). However, the victim (JFK) is still sitting semi-upright, with his head tilted forward (I'd say less than perfectly horizontal, as opposed to completely horizontal) and to the side. Problem: although we agree that JFK's neck is exposed due to this position, his head is only midway between being horizontal from vertical. Not completely horizontal and definitely not beyond horizontal. Therefore I claim that JFK's head is in a slight upward angle, say 10 degrees up from a perfect horizontal tilt. (tilted forward, towards being horizontal, but not horizontal). One can try this at home in front of the computer when sitting down, one's head will not be perfectly horizontal, that is no matter how hard one tries to bend one's neck into a 90 degree angle. Ok, maybe some gymnast can do it, I can't. I do claim that JFK's head's/neck's position can be seen from the Zapruder film and possibly the other footage showing the limousine approaching the Altgens position. This will demonstrate the position of JFK and his head/neck at or near the James Altgens positon on Elm Street. Considering that the bullet is approaching in a downward angle of an assumed 10 degrees and the head of JFK is in an upward angle of an assumed 10 degrees, I see no way how it is possible for a bullet to strike the neck in the soft fleshy section and to then travel upwards to enter the skull at the EOP. In fact had the bullet travelled in the way you say, a midget in the trunk with a gun could have done the trick, but that's silly. Perhaps it was a ricochet...?

A slightly different view of JFK's bloody shirt with some damage visible below the collar button. Courtesy of FBI?

Jack, Please ask Bernice to try again. I would be really surprised if someone had altered the post, besides, when this is done it will say someting like (in bold print, small font, at the bottom of the post): "last edit by FIRSTNAME LASTNAME time, date". EDIT: Just viewed Bernice's post with the photo attachments from you Jack. Looks fine on my computer?!?!

Ashton, In your early posts on this thread you mention that the anterior neck wound was described as having been some 1.5 - 5 centimeters in diameter. I believe you want to change that to millimeter. 5 millimeters is roughly one fifth of an inch, whereas 5 centimeters is roughly 2 inches. Tomorrow I hope to post a different picture of JFK's shirt, just to add to the thread, not to try and prove that it was a gunshot wound.

Finding information or photos on the internet and using them on a post is fine, as long as the url is provided. I believe that for copyrighted material the copyright owner must be contacted for permission to use it. I am getting quite fed up with reading complaints regarding this thread (I just went through 19 Pm messages most of which concerned this thread). If this continues to cause this much trouble I will lock this thread and ask fellow moderators not to re-open it. The next step after that will be to submit a request to John Simkin to have more members placed on moderation. I have better things to do on this Forum than to review 17 complaints for this one thread.

I don't usually do this, but I am now bumping this post and a few others, as there were moderated posts here that were not approved immediately, and they might be left in the back possibly unnoticed.

I don't usually do this, but I am now bumping this post and a few others, as there were moderated posts here that were not approved immediately, and might be left in the back possibly unnoticed.

Tom, You are making more sense here! Thanks. Tom, you say that the head was in a vertical position, and about this shot, that "entered the rear of the head through the scalp at a point which was at the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the skull. Thereafter, the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP." This is interesting. How have you analysed the path of the bullet, considering that the head is in a "vertical" position, meaning upright? At the same time you say that "the bullet traversed through the soft flesh at the base of the neck (upwards when the head is held erect), to penetrate the skull 2.5cm right and slightly above the EOP." This would mean that a bullet fired from the 6th floor TSBD, travelling in a downward angle, would hit the scalp at the hairline, traverse the soft tissue of the neck, but would then for some reason, change it's path and exit the skull at an upward angle. I do find this analysis quite puzzling in your explanation. What changed the bullet's path? I do find your take here to be quite sound. A few follow-up questions, since you say there were two shots to the head, and the second shot to the head (the final shot) occurred at James Altgens position, what film, or photo would have captured this event? Can you give an approximate Zapruder film frame or other? I do disagree with your claim that John Connally was not already wounded in his back and chest when his wife had pulled him down. Can you show supporting evidence for your claim? I would refer to their testimonies and the Zapruder film, which both indicate to me, that John Connally was already seriously wounded at the time that his wife pulled him down, and out of the line of fire. Thanks.

Tom, why do you find it necessary to reply in riddles. It would be much more meaningful to the members reading and replying to this thread if you were to explain your "facts" in the same style as you did in an earlier post on this thread. Tom, why do you find it necessary to reply in riddles. It would be much more meaningful to the members reading and replying to this thread if you were to explain your "facts" in the same style as you did in an earlier post on this thread. Tom, Many witnesses also stated that the last two audible shots were fired in a rapid succession, almost on top of each other, like bang, bang. How have you incorporated this witness testimony in your conclusions? If 313 was the point of the second shot, then where is the video evidence of a third shot that sprays the occupants in the vehicle in the same style as observed in Zapruder 313? Thanks!