Antti Hynonen

A possible answer above? See post #21. "Ping!" Yes. As opposed to "THUD-THUD-THud-THud-Thud-Thud-THUD!-thud-thud-thud-thud-thud-thud...." (Feel free to substitute any "footfall" sound you'd like - "clomp?" The other loud one was the rifle being quickly hidden!) Of course, I've also always wondered: why not "click-shick-ping!-shick-click ... bang! ... click-shick-ping!-shick-click ... bang!" Nope, just "ping!" And no "thud!" Remember, at least the first couple of "thuds" were directly above their heads, too. After hearing those "pings," they wouldn't have had their attention directed above at least a little?!? Enough, anyway, to hear a 135-lb man get up, move boxes and run away? Especially after what might be construed as gunfire (or even just firecrackers) immediately above them, and just as people started panicking below, running toward the RR tracks? I think all the conjecture in the world can be made about "why did they hear one noise to the exclusion of all others?" None of it, unfortunately, proves a damned thing, or is necessarily putative to anyone not predisposed to accepting it. Like: "empty floors reverberate; those with weight on them make no noise at all." Sounds logical till you start to think about it some. I have to say I agree with Duke Lane on this. Even with lots of heavy boxes on the 6th floor, a man walking or running on the 6th would have made enough noise for it to have been easily distinguishable steps, furthermore, something one would normally have included into their report, or testimony. Why it is not there is beyond me. As I stated in my e-mail to Gary Mack, the 3 men on the 5th floor would have been alert and trying to figure out what the 6th floor rifleman was up to, and where he was going to go next, simply because they'd be afraid to be spotted by him as they were witnesses to his deed.

Follow-up to the previous discussion. Antti, Jack White responded to your question by describing something he took part in - a test conducted in the TSBD when the floors were empty. Of course he heard the shells drop and of course he heard footsteps. But in 1963, the heavy book cartons all over the sixth floor deadened the noise. Also, I suspect the assassin knew there were people below him, for the floors were very thin - just one layer of plywood - and the sound would easily carry through. Jack also ignored the simple fact that there were ten to fifteen vehicles and motorcycles right below the window along with cheering crowds, so there was a lot of ambient noise that could have masked some of the sounds from the floor above. The guys on the fifth floor in 1963 always said they heard the shells hit the floor and the sound of the rifle being operated above them. I don't know of any reason to question their stories and I'm not aware of any researchers who have even attempted to debunk their claims. Gary Hi, Thank you for sharing your view. I'm not sure what it was that made me think there were discrepancies in their stories, somehow I recall the timing of events seemed to get these gentlemen to "stumble". At any rate this was the impression I was left with, I do need to point out it was 2-3 years ago that I read their testimony. Even with heavy book boxes on the floor, I can't quite figure out why they wouldn't also hear and then mention the movement of the assailant in their testimony. Even if not to set the record straight, they must have been afraid or concerned about this individual possibly moving down to the 5th floor and would therefore try and listen out to what that individual might be doing next, simply out of instinct. Antti

Mr. Gary Mack offers an explanation as to why the footsteps would not sound out from the 6th to the 5th floor of the TSBD. At the time of my reply to him, I wasn't aware that Mr. White had shared his experiences from the experiments had had been part of. Our communiqué below: Hi Antti, What Jack did not tell you is that when JFK was shot, the sixth floor was filled with cartons and that is the reason footsteps did not "boom" out like they did for the test in an EMPTY warehouse. Knowing the real situation in 1963 is crucial to understanding what happened, and what did not happen. Gary Mack Hello Mr. Mack, Thank you for your message. I did not know (or didn't remember) what Jack had said about the steps. I just came to think that if you'd hear shells drop you'd probably hear the footsteps of the assailant hiding the weapon as well, all my thinking, not Jack's, unless it's by coincidence. You mean Jack White? Good to know about the cardboard, I didn't know they had placed cardboard on the 6th floor in 11/1963. I think the testimony of the three witnesses from the 5th floor in addition to Marina Oswald's (Porter's) is probably some of the weakest key testimony in this case. What do you think of the Jarman, Norman et al. testimony? Does it hold scrutiny in your opinion? Thanks. Antti

I recall reading that the paper bag found on the 6th floor was not oily in any way. Yet the Carcano was well oiled. Also the shells were found fairly close to each other, this suggests they were placed there, and were not were they'd be had they been ejected from the carbine. The best ear witnesses were the 3 African American men watching the motorcade on the 5th floor. One of them claimed to have heard the ejected shells drop onto the floor above him. Also one of these men had dust or something fall onto his head during the shooting from the floor above (the floor was being repaired at the time, which allowed for a need for Oswald and hsi employment there in the first place). If they heard that much, I wonder why didn't they report hearing the assassin take steps (run/walk) to the other end of the 6th floor to hide the rifle after the deed? Why were they unable to give testimony as to how the assassin fled from the building? The elevators and staircases were right there. Surely they'd hear the elevator being operated or someone running in the staircase, if they could hear the shells falling onto the floor above? Anyone get the feeling that some of the witness statements are false and that some of the evidence has been planted? I am.

This thread is an interesting subject. The title being: "Why hide the rifle?" I'd like to expland the hiding of the rifle to the brown paper bag, which Oswald allegedly used to bring the rifle to work with. Why did Linnie Mae Randle and Buell Wesley Frazier (brother and sister) testify that Lee placed a 2-2.5 foot long brown paper bag type parcel into Wes Frazier's car's back seat. Frazier testified the Lee carried it to the TSBD from the car. Lee had allegedly said it contained curtain rods he planned to use for his apartment room (apparently on N. Beckley), where he was staying. Were both Mrs. Randle and Wes Frazier somehow pressured to testify that Lee had such a package with him, or did he in fact have this package with him. A similar empty bag, believed to be "the rifle bag" was found in the TSBD. What happened to the curtain rods? The rifle measured about 3 feet disassembled. Did Frazier and Randle just not recall the size of the bag correctly or did Lee in fact bring curtian rods to the TSBD and was the rifle a plant? Who disposed of the curtain rods? Was the paper bag story fabricated? One fairly simple issue about the assassination, but yet so many unanswered questions. What's going on?

See professional demonstrations regarding exit wound location....

Chris, I believe the arguments against this would be the lack of time and prevailing panic mode after the event. In other words no time for him to disassemble it nor to dispose of it properly. Anyone walking around the TSBD or out of the TSBD at 12:32 on 11/22/1963 with a fairly large paper sack would likely be spotted and/or stopped. However, in retrospect, it would have been a good idea to grab the shells too, which I believe, gave the investigating police the idea that the rifle matching the shells would likely be found not far from the shells, and definitely gave them the thought that must be the sniper's lair.

Ok, thanks for the link Bernice.

http://www.inthefirstperson.com/firp/firp....20...</I> James, The link above is an interview with Bill Lair who was CIA and operated in Laos and Thailand for 25 years. He left Thailand in 1980 and funny enough the interview took place in 2001. Is this Bill Lair a different Bill Lair than the one you Mention. If so, funny coincidence that a man with the same name would be stomping the same grounds, for the same gov't agency. I thought "Mjr. Lopez" died in or near Fort Bragg in a bar brawl in 1982. Confused.

Ok, thank you, James. Since you are a photo expert, what do you think of the photo comparison of "PBM" and lamp post man? This thread: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...c=6998&st=0 and post #12 Thanks, A

Ok, thanks for the additional info. IMO these are very interesting facts, namely that you were pressured to drop investigating and that the individuals under investigation were in Dallas and involved in the coup. Do you see a direct tie to Sarti or associates through the Laos angle? If so, can you explain any of the details? I fully understand if you can't answer that.

Hi James, Thanks for your reply. Can you elaborate about what went south? What is Blackwater? Are you saying that this angle may or may not be the correct angle to pursue in the greater JFK case, but it got, shall I say "too hot to touch"?

Bernice, great photo that color one in post #122. I wish the other ones of that day of the knoll and TSBD were of that quality and sharpness, alas not so.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...c=6998&st=0 In the thread above, please see post 12 for a comparison of photos of lamp-post man in Dealy plaza and Pakse-base man. Pretty close I'd say, pretty close.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...48&hl=pakse This is the thread I had in mind. Very interesting Major Lopez....

James, you raise interesting points. Regarding Laos and sharpshooters, are you referring to information of a discussion from a year or two ago, regarding "Pakse Base man"? I vaguely recall this and the look-a-like in Dealy plaza. One of the active participants in this discussion was Al Carrier, who seemed to be pretty confident that the "Pakse base man" he researched had ties to Dealy plaza and to 11/22/63. I'm going off memory here so it may be a bit off. Sorry. I'll look for that thread, and if I find it, I'll post a link on this one. If the Corsican connection and the Pakse base man tie in with credible evidence, this could be interesting. One other related issue I'd like to know more about, is the person stopped at the knoll by Officer Smith, who presented Secret Service (or other government LE) credentials, who had "dirty fingernails". In other words, in retrospect Smith should had arrested this man for further questioning, but didn't. The word "mechanic" comes to mind of this fellow with the dirty fingernails, and I'm not talking about someone who fixes cars. From a documentary I saw some time ago, I recall Officer Smith talking about this incident, he seemed to be "kicking himself" because he let the fellow go. Any comments James or anyone else?

Pat, do you mean Gunnery Sargent Hathcock? At any rate, I was hinting at the possibility of a US sniper, not necessarily a military man, a professional hunter would probably get the job done and as a location I don't mean the shots were fired from the TSBD alledged sniper's lair either.

Sure, it's been a while since I watched TMWKK, and the episode dedicated to the Corsican connection. However, I recall that the American investigating this angle, found out that the assumed Corsican (or Marseilles, based mobster) had an alibi and had in fact been in some South American country at that time. However, I don't know how reliable the alibi is/was. In my opinion it is entirely possible that the shooter could have been a foreigner, but I suspect there'd be enough skilled and able shooters on the US side of the Atlantic as well, in other words I didn't understand why these shooters needed to be imported, as per the Corsican theory.

Ok, thanks James. Can't/couldn't recognize them from the color photos. I'll take your word in this case.

Hi, Bernice, Great photos. Whose the couple in the color photo? Thanks.

I hope Mr. Sullivan will keep a personal copy of the key materials and a copy of the final version to be released in a safe place, just in case "something happens" to the film before the projected release date, later this year... (Edits, diapperarances etc.)

Recently Howard Hunt's eldest son St. John has revealed that he (and his siblings) gave his father a false alibi for that day. Please see: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle1642197.ece From the article behind the above link: One evening, Saint explained how he came to suspect that his father might be involved in the Kennedy assassination. “Around 1975, I was in a phone booth in Maryland when I saw a poster on a telephone pole about who killed JFK, and it had a picture of the three tramps. I saw that picture and I f***ing? like a cartoon character, my jaw dropped, my eyes popped out of my head? It looks like my dad. There’s nobody that has those same facial features. Then, like an epiphany, I remember ’63, and my dad being gone, and my mom telling me he was on a business trip to Dallas. I’ve tried to convince myself it’s some kind of false memory, something I heard years later. But his alibi for that day is he was at home with his family. I was in the fifth grade. We were at recess. I was playing on the merry-go-round. We were told to go home, because the president had been killed. I remember going home but I don’t remember my dad being there. Then he has this whole thing about shopping for Chinese food with my mother that day, so they could cook a meal together.” His father testified to this in court on more than one occasion, saying he and his wife often cooked meals together. Saint pauses. “I can tell you that’s the biggest load of crap in the f***ing world. He was always looking at things like he was writing a novel; everything had to be just so glamorous. He couldn’t even be bothered with his children. James Bond doesn’t have children. So, my dad in the kitchen? Chopping vegetables with his wife? I’m so sorry, but that would never happen. Ever.” Ahhh, John Simkin beat me to it.

Some of us discussed the backyard photos in depth on at least one other thread on this Forum a few years back. Gary Mack sent me a message and related that there were, in fact, (going from memory here) some 2 or 3 additional backyard photos - not seen by the general public, similar, but with Lee posing without the guns or the newspapers. These were sent to some media company's H.Q. in New York if I recall correctly. At any rate, the total of the backyard photos amounted to some 6-7 shots. Considering Marina's testimony and her having said that she had taken: first 1 photo, then 2, then 3... she should probably change it to say about 7 with the information researchers have about them today.

A fairly nice car for a shoe salesman, no?

Pat, Thanks for making those videos. I thought that they were informative and key issues of the JFK investigation were well presented. A job well done.