Steve Thomas
-
Posts
6,478 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Store
Posts posted by Steve Thomas
-
-
One week later, on January 11, 1960 he submitted an application for employment at the Minsk Radio and TV plant. On his application, he wrote that his parents were dead, and he had no brothers or sisters.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&search=%22Harvey_Lee+Oswald%22#relPageId=441&tab=page page 426 of CE 985
On page 430 of CE 985, there is a Certificate dated July 15, 1961 that “Comrade”, Lee Harvey Oswald was employed as an assembler at the Minsk Radio Plant. The date January 1, 1960 is typed on the Certificate.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=444&tab=page
Is this date of January 1, 1960 a mistake, or is Lee Harvey Oswald certified as an assembler ten days before he even applied for the job?
Whole lot of funny business...
Steve Thomas
-
6 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:
As I was reading through the pages of CE 985 that Steve pointed to, one thing jumped off the page to me. In a short “autobiography” allegedly written in “Oswald’s” own hand as part of an application for employment at the Minsk radio plant, he wrote:
“...my parents are dead, I have no brothers or sisters.” The rest of the paragraph pretty much matches the biography of Classic Oswald®. Take a look at the page:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=441&tab=page
I’m sure WC loyalists will just say “Oswald” was playing games with the Soviets, but the odd thing about this is that the statement is probably true for the Russian-speaking Oswald. Anyone have any other thoughts, or thoughts on the questions Steve raised?
Jim,
On January 4, 1960, Lee Harvey Oswald applied for a non-citizen alien identity card. In the space for the names of relatives living abroad, he listed his mother, Margaret living at 3124 W. 5th. St. in Fort Worth. No brother is listed. Four photographs are provided. (Photos not included in the documents)
This document spells out the details of a non-citizen identity card (Series P-311479)
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10210-10003.pdf
One week later, on January 11, 1960 he submitted an application for employment at the Minsk Radio and TV plant. On his application, he wrote that his parents were dead, and he had no brothers or sisters.
On January 4, 1961 he applied for an extension of his non-citizen alien identity card. In the space for the names of relatives living abroad, this space is left blank. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&search=%22Harvey_Lee+Oswald%22#relPageId=430&tab=page
This ID card was extended to January 4, 1962.
On January 4, 1962 Lee Harvey Oswald applied for an an extension for his non-citizen alien identity card. As part of his application he listed his mother as Margaret and his brother as Robert. “Margaret's” address is listed as P.O. Box 982 Vernon.
This identity card was granted an extension until July 2, 1962.
On page 430 of CE 985, there is a Certificate dated July 15, 1961 that “Comrade”, Lee Harvey Oswald was employed as an assembler at the Minsk Radio Plant. The date January 1, 1960 is typed on the Certificate.
On page 433 of that CE Exhibit (CE 985), it says that “Citizen” Harvey Lee Oswald was hired as a regulator at the Minsk Radio Plant on January 13, 1960.
"Comrade" Lee Harvey Oswald is hired January 1, 1960
"Citizen" Harvey Lee Oswald is hired two weeks later on January 13, 1960.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=7986&relPageId=111&search=Dobrynin_December%2011,%201963
p. 111.
In this letter, it says that Harvey Lee Oswald's request for USSR Citizenship was denied. It doesn't say when he applied for that citizenship, but the character reference memo from the Minsk Radio factory in CE 985, p. 433 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&relPageId=447&search=%22Harvey_Lee%20Oswald%22 is dated December 11, 1961 and refers to “Citizen” Harvey Lee Oswald.
Harvey Lee Oswald's application for citizenship is denied
Whole lot of funny business going on over there in ol' Russia land.
Steve Thomas
-
5 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:
20 Facts Indicating the Oswald Project Was Run by the CIA
2. A 1978 CIA memo indicates that a CIA operations officer “had run an agent into the USSR, that man having met a Russian girl and eventually marrying her,” a case very similar to Oswald’s and clearly indicating that the Agency ran a “false defector” program in the 1950s.Jim,
I'd still like to know whose application for Soviet citizenship was denied in 1961.
p. 111.
In that letter, Dobrynin lays out why the Soviet Government rejected the citizenship application of Harvey Lee Oswald.
Documents submitted by Dobrynin on May 5, 1964:
CE 985 pp. 404+
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=418&tab=page
There is an application for a non-citizen alien identity card, which was granted on January 4, 1960, 1961, and 1962, but no application for citizenship, and no correspondence from the Soviet Government denying such an application.
So whose application for citizenship was denied?
Steve Thomas
-
From The Dallas Morning News, June 28, 1960
TEXAS INSTRUMENTS GET HIGH-SPEED IBM SYSTEM
Texas Instruments accepted Monday, June 27, a $1,600,000 data processing system that thinks in millionths of seconds - the first such system to be delivered either to private industry or the military.
Read the full story here.http://photographyblog.dallasnewsblogs.com/files/2013/06/ibm.pdf
Steve Thomas
-
7 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:
Perhaps people other than me should continue this line of thought because I just don’t have much faith at all in Brewer as a witness. We could speculate endlessly about what he meant by the “IBM men,” but I’d be just as inclined to guess they were a stand-in for Tommy Rowe, who would certainly be more likely to have the ability to close up the shoe shop. Before he got enmeshed in this whole mess, I’ll bet Brewer had no idea how close his underling was to Ruby, or how pivotal Ruby was in the assassination plot.
This is all just a wild guess on my part, of course, but so is everything else regarding the two “IBM men,” at least in my opinion. None of us are getting any younger, especially me, and I’d rather concentrate on matters that have a greater chance of being understood with at least some modest degree of certainty.
Jim,
I agree.
I told Bart Kamp the other day that I wish I had a lot more answers rather than have just a list of endless questions.
Steve Thomas
-
In his essay in the Reopen the Kennedy Case Forum in 2016, Hasan Yusuf makes the case that the two IBM men in the store were Igor Vaganov, and Robert
Radelat/Radelet.
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1124-brewer-s-ibm-friends
Hasan also wrote,
<quote>
" What I also find interesting is the information contained in the following article by Robert E. Doran:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16254&search=Bill_Stage+hypnotist+Dallas+Air+force+base#relPageId=15&tab=page
Doran writes that two of his Air Force “buddies” were hypnotised by a professional stage hypnotist from Dallas named “Bill” who was brought along by a mysterious IBM instructor. The reason I find this interesting is because William Crowe (aka Bill DeMar), who was the master of ceremonies at the Carousel Club, was evidently involved with hypnosis."" This whole idea of Robert Radelat as one of the IBM men in Brewer’s shoe store is really beginning to fascinate me. There was a Guido Radelat from Cuba who was a member of the anti-Castro organisation, JURE, and who “specialized in writing computer programs.”
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=91781&search=Guido_Radelat#relPageId=31&tab=page
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/01/AR2010080103221_2.html
So we have Robert Radelat who it is said was working for IBM in November, 1963, and we have a Guido Radelat who was a member of an anti-Castro organisation who “specialized in writing computer programs.” Were they related? I sure would like to find out if they were."<end quote>
Steve Thomas
-
1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:
Still trying to catch up here, so forgive me if this has already been asked and answered, but is there anyone who can confirm Brewer’s bizarre story of the “two IBM men?” Tommy Rowe (who also worked at Hardy’s Shoes) or anyone else? Frankly, I see little reason to believe this story.
Jim,
It was the utter bizarrness of the story that piqued my interest.
Why two IBM men?
He could easily have said, "Two government agents, or two FBI guys, or even two guys from the auto body shop down the street".
Was there an IBM office or store or data processing center nearby?
Didn't these guys have jobs? How could they afford to " just come in and kill time and lounge around."?
Steve Thomas
-
On 8/10/2019 at 1:37 AM, Steve Thomas said:
Hielbronn was where Dennis Ofstein of Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall fame and Thomas H. Crigler were stationed.
Thomas Crigler worked as an Army recruiter. There was a recruiting office about one or two blocks from the Texas Theater and Brewer's Shoe store in Oak Cliff. Crigler lived at 1705 McAdams in Oak Cliff.
On December 6, 1963 Thomas Crigler was interviewed by the FBI. He said that he met Olfstein “accidentally” on the street.
See FBI interview of Crigler December 6, 1963:
CD 205 p. 478
https://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=481&tab=page
Thomas H. Crigler, Jr., 1705 McAdams, advised he is currently a Staff Sergeant, U.S. Army Security Agency, Field Representative, assigned to U.S. Army Recruiting Station, Dallas. He advised that he and Dennis Ofstein were assigned to the same U.S. Army branch in Europe and that he knew Ofstein from about June, 1960 to December, 1960 purely as another person attached to the same unit with him. He said that he had never become socially or well acquainted with Ofstein at that time. He said the caption of their group was the 507th USASA Group, Heilbron, West Germany.”
(This is actually spelled Heilbronn)
1960
(Source: Email from John O'Neil)
My next duty station (after Vint Hill Farms) was with the 507th USASA Group (Field Army) at Heilbronn am Neckar. We had 4 -2½ ton trucks with expandable sides that held all our IBM equipment that ran off portable diesel generators (one per truck). The vans were housed in a big garage and it was a fairly comfortable, if sometimes very cold, arrangement. Being 6 foot 6 and working is a space with a 6 foot roof became a real pain in the neck.
“While I was with the 251st they received an IBM 1401 computer (could have been 1410 but I don’t think so). It was the first computer I’d seen outside the IBM plant in Endicott NY. It had been shipped from the US without ever having been mated on the floor (the RAM came from California and the rest from NY). It took several weeks for the trained IBM techs to figure out why it turned itself OFF every time the power was turned ON. That was my introduction to computers.”
(Source: Email from James "Bull" Durham)
I was stationed at Heilbronn from about April/May of 1960 in the 507th USASA GP. I worked in the com.center as a teletype operator among other duties!!
“Jim Campbell in his email said “(When I was in, no 206 had ever re-enlisted - IBM had a job ready for them when they got out.)”
1958
(Source: Email from Jim Campbell)
"I was a Ham Radio Operator before enlisting in the ASA in the Summer of 1957. While being processed at Ft. Devens I was assured by all and sundry that I was destined for a career as an 058 (ditty bopper). Instead, I was tapped for a job of teaching electronics in the Bird Cage at Devens. Not long after starting that job I got the opportunity to become an IBM CE for the ASA. After a stint at IBM school in Endicott and Poughkeepsie, NY I was assigned to USASA HQ Europe in Frankfurt.
I worked for a year there in the data processing center on the top floor of the IG Farben Building. Our data processing unit was transferred to Rothwesten in the Summer of 1959 and I worked there outside the Operations Building in some shelters mounted on trucks. I believe that my MOS was 206.10, Cryptanalytic Equipment Repair. I left the army in the Summer of 1960. (When I was in, no 206 had ever re-enlisted - IBM had a job ready for them when they got out. The ASA ran a new group through the IBM school every year or so.)"Steve Thomas
-
2 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:
Question: What kind of manager allows customers to close up and lock the store?
Answer: None do. These "IBM men" from the neighborhood were known to Brewer since August of 1962. Brewer explicity denied these men were customers. ("They'd just come in and kill time and lounge around.")
Paul,
What kind of guys just "lounge around" a shoe store?
None. They might "lounge around a malt shop, or a bar, but a shoe store?
Project WALNUT:
You can see a reference to this system (WALNUT) on page 6 in the document entitled: “DCI John McCone and the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy”
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB493/docs/intell_ebb_026.PDF
that Douglas Caddy referred to in his thread, “CIA report concluded director led JFK assassination coverup
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/helms1.htm
“Mr. RANKIN. Do you have an opinion, Mr. McCone, as to whether or not the liaison between the intelligence agencies of the United States Government might be improved if they had better mechanical, computer or other facilities of that type, and also some other ideas or methods of dealing with each other?
Mr. McCONE. There is a great deal of improvement of information that might be of importance in a matter of this kind through the use of computers and mechanical means of handling files, and you, Mr. Chief Justice, saw some of our installations and that was only a beginning of what really can be done.
The CHAIRMAN. Yes; I did.
Mr. McCONE. I would certainly urge that all departments of government that are involved in this area adopt the most modern methods of automatic data processing with respect to the personnel files and other files relating to individuals. This would be helpful. But I emphasize that a computer will not replace the man, and therefore, we must have at all levels a complete exchange of information and cooperation between agencies where they share this responsibility, and in going through this chronology, it points out the type of exchange and cooperation that the Central Intelligence Agency tries to afford both the Secret Service and the Federal Bureau of Investigation in matters where we have a common responsibility.”http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/helms1.htm
“Mr. RANKIN. Do you have an opinion, Mr. McCone, as to whether or not the liaison between the intelligence agencies of the United States Government might be improved if they had better mechanical, computer or other facilities of that type, and also some other ideas or methods of dealing with each other?
Mr. McCONE. There is a great deal of improvement of information that might be of importance in a matter of this kind through the use of computers and mechanical means of handling files, and you, Mr. Chief Justice, saw some of our installations and that was only a beginning of what really can be done.
The CHAIRMAN. Yes; I did.
Mr. McCONE. I would certainly urge that all departments of government that are involved in this area adopt the most modern methods of automatic data processing with respect to the personnel files and other files relating to individuals. This would be helpful. But I emphasize that a computer will not replace the man, and therefore, we must have at all levels a complete exchange of information and cooperation between agencies where they share this responsibility, and in going through this chronology, it points out the type of exchange and cooperation that the Central Intelligence Agency tries to afford both the Secret Service and the Federal Bureau of Investigation in matters where we have a common responsibility.”According to Wikipedia, WALNUT used an IBM 1360 data retrieval and name trace system employing IBM punch cards and microfilm. Paper documents were microfilmed and then the pages were scanned and input into IBM punch cards. The cards were keyword searchable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1360
CIA Project WALNUT
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80B01139A000200020028-0.pdf
May, 1959
\
Steve Thomas
-
5 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:
I.E., I don't think it's inconceivable that in certain situations, certain IBM reps could have been CIA assets using the company as a front.
Ron,
Think military intelligence, not CIA.
Steve Thomas
-
4 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:
When I first read IBM men in the shoe store a few years back the antennae on my tin foil hat started buzzing. Thanks for fleshing this out a bit Steve. It made me think of IBM counting Jews on the way to concentration camps or death.
Ron,
I was interested in Crigler because of his role in the recruiting process. Men who went into the Army Security Agency were recruited at the time they signed up, and before they went into basic traaining.
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/ofstein.htm
Mr. OFSTEIN Well, when I went in the service I was interested in radio--I was a disc jockey at the time, and the closest thing my recruiting sergeant said that I could get to radio would be possibly with the Army security agency, so I signed up, and after basic training I went to Fort Devens, Mass., and was held there on a temporary status while the agency determined what type training I should have, and I was given a language ability test and passed that and had a choice of three languages to take, and Russian was my first choice and I was sent to Monterey to study.
Submitted by Walter Chisholm
http://www.fortdevensmuseum.org/ArmySecurityAgency.php
“Most enlistees who joined the Army when I did, did so for a period of three years and that was my intention, too. However, after taking the ordinary battery of tests given to new recruits, I and two others in my group were called aside and taken to a room to talk to another recruiter. He told us that our high scores on those tests qualified us to join an elite group of soldiers in the "Army Security Agency". Of course we had never heard of the ASA and when we asked questions he seemed quite evasive saying only that it was so secret that he couldn't tell us much about it, but he used the words "Top Secret" several times. Sounded very "cloak and dagger. He made a point that "you don't have much time to decide. If you accept, I have to get you on a plane to Fort Jackson SC where you will undergo basic training and then go on to your ASA schooling."
We were at the induction station in Louisville KY and I had expected to go to basic just down the road at Fort Knox KY. At the time, I had never flown on a commercial airliner and the prospect of doing so, probably helped to sway my decision. Anyway, that and the way he didn't explain it, made it sound so intriguing that all three of us took the bait. Then he said "One more thing...because the ASA schooling is considerably more extensive than most other MOS's...many take from 6 to 12 months...the required period of enlistment is four years instead of the usual three". We all three thought about it for a moment, but it didn't deter us. We signed the paper and took the oath of enlistment”.
After basic at Fort Jackson, I arrived at Fort Devens in March of 1964. Upon arrival there everyone was first assigned to Charlie Company. Before anyone could start training, a complete background investigation had to be performed by the FBI. That sometimes took a few weeks. C-company was a holding company where you spent most of your time pulling KP, Police Call, or other such menial tasks while you waited for your security clearance to arrive. I was transferred to A-company during training”.
Steve Thomas
-
I've been interested in the IBM links to Brewer's store, and the possible links to the 507th Army Security Agency Group.
Here's some notes I have:
Ian Lloyd, Why the Texas Theatre? Jfk assassination forum
According to Ian Griggs' "No Case To Answer" Brewer mentions "2 IBM men" who he says he didn't actually know, but were in his shop when Oswald ducked into the doorway but, when Brewer came back to his shop, they had disappeared never to be seen again?
Lee Farley, “Oswald's Escape Plan? Jfk assassination forum
“The main reason I place suspicion on Brewer is because when Oswald first entered Hardy's Shoe Store, Brewer claims he was with two people that he had known for over a year. These two men, he says, worked for IBM. They were in the neighborhood and they popped in and were "killing time" and "lounging around." The Dallas Police didn't seek these individuals to find out who they were and what they saw. No one, it appears, was interested in them in the slightest. They just disappeared from existence.
Brewer had an interview with British researcher Ian Griggs in 1996. Brewer brought up the two men who were in his store (who worked for IBM) and he stated that in his absence they "locked up" for him. Lo and behold, Brewer says that although he had known these men for over a year, and they regularly came into his store to "kill time" he couldn't remember either of their names.”You can see a reference to this system on page 6 in the document entitled: “DCI John McCone and the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy”
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB493/docs/intell_ebb_026.PDF
that Douglas Caddy referred to in his thread, “CIA report concluded director led JFK assassination coverup
According to Wikipedia, Walnut used an IBM 1360 data retrieval and name trace system employing IBM punch cards and microfilm. Paper documents were microfilmed and then the pages were scanned and input into IBM punch cards. The cards were keyword searchable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1360
I had been doing some reading on the 507th Army Security Agency Group in Germany in the 1950's and 60's. The soldiers talked about using IBM punch cards in their work. Several said that there was a job waiting for them at IBM when their hitch was over.
(Source: Email from John O'Neil) (served in 1960)
My next duty station (after Vint Hill Farms) was with the 507th USASA Group (Field Army) at Heilbronn am Neckar. We had 4 -2½ ton trucks with expandable sides that held all our IBM equipment that ran off portable diesel generators (one per truck).
Jim Campbell in his email said “(When I was in, no 206 had ever re-enlisted - IBM had a job ready for them when they got out.)” When I got out I went to the IBM office in San Francisco, showed them my diploma with TJ Watson’s signature and asked for a job, they asked me what I knew about computers, so I told them I’d seen one in Germany. I got the hint when they said ‘Goodbye, thanks for stopping in”.
Late in 1962 was not the time to look for a job repairing the soon to be obsolete IBM punched card machines! It all turned out for the best. I worked as a tab operator while I taught myself computer programming and all that stuff and lived happily ever after. My wife, our three children and I moved to Australia 40 years ago.Hielbronn was where Dennis Ofstein of Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall fame and Thomas H. Crigler were stationed.
Thomas Crigler worked as an Army recruiter. There was a recruiting office about one or two blocks from the Texas Theater and Brewer's Shoe store in Oak Cliff. Crigler lived at 1705 McAdams in Oak Cliff.
On December 6, 1963 Thomas Crigler was interviewed by the FBI. He said that he met Olfstein “accidentally” on the street.
See FBI interview of Crigler December 6, 1963:
CD 205 p. 478
https://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=481&tab=page
Thomas H. Crigler, Jr., 1705 McAdams, advised he is currently a Staff Sergeant, U.S. Army Security Agency, Field Representative, assigned to U.S. Army Recruiting Station, Dallas. He advised that he and Dennis Ofstein were assigned to the same U.S. Army branch in Europe and that he knew Ofstein from about June, 1960 to December, 1960 purely as another person attached to the same unit with him. He said that he had never become socially or well acquainted with Ofstein at that time. He said the caption of their group was the 507th USASA Group, Heilbron, West Germany.”
(This is actually spelled Heilbronn)
However, he said later in his FBI interview that about a week after meeting Ofstein in the street in August, Ofstein and his family came to Crigler's house, and that twice more he and his wife visited Ofstein at his (Ofstein's) house.
Steve Thomas
-
2 hours ago, Craig Carvalho said:
While most researches are well aware of the above mentioned facts, fewer realize that Ruby's lesser known Vegas Club was only about a half mile from Walker's home on Turtlecreek Boulevard. The attack on Walker took place at 9 p.m.. Yet Oswald did not return home until close to midnight. During a closed session of the WC this concern was raised. Where was Oswald for nearly 3 hours? This question has never been answered or even contemplated by most of the research community.
Could Ruby have, in some way, assisted Oswald in his attempt on Walker? Even perhaps if it were only to give Oswald a place to hide.
Craig,
" Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, because as soon as he came home I showed him the note and asked him "What is the meaning of this?"
Mr. RANKIN. And that is when he gave you the explanation about the Walker shooting?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
I know that on a Sunday he took the rifle, but I don't think he fired on a Sunday. Perhaps this was on Friday. So Sunday he left and took the rifle.
Mr. RANKIN. If the Walker shooting was on Wednesday, does that refresh your memory as to the day of the week at all?
Mrs. OSWALD. Refresh my memory as to what?
Mr. RANKIN. As to the day of the shooting?
Mrs. OSWALD. It was in the middle of the week."Where was the rifle between Sunday and Wednesday?
Steve Thomas
-
4 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:
Did the Warren Commission not know of these two and their recorded statements?
I just accessed the relevant Mary Ferrell pages referring to three 3 television truck technicians and their Ruby sighting accounts early in the morning of 11,24,1963 as described in the commission records.
Like the commission's dismissal of Seth Kantor's stated account of personally meeting and talking to Jack Ruby at Parkland hospital the early afternoon of 11,22,1963 ... they similarly dismiss these men's accounts of seeing Jack Ruby as mistaken identity.
Joe,
I'm assuming this means you read their Warren Commission testimony. In addition to Smith and Walker, a third man - the cameraman, Warren Richey also testified. They all testified before the WC.
I like to use this site:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm
because it lets me cut and paste things.
All three of the men said they didn't know Ruby personally, but recognized him when they saw his picture on TV and in the papers as the guy who approached them on the street the morning of the 24th.
Walker told the WC that his FBI statement was wrong in that it wasn't he who said he saw Ruby around 8:00 to 8:30.
Richey told the WC that it was him.
You're right. The parallels to Seth Kantor are too stark to overlook.
Steve Thomas
Steve Thomas
-
31 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:
Why didn't Ruby just drive over to Little Lynn's apartment and hand her that measly little $25?
Would've saved them both a lot of wait and travel time as well as the cost of sending this little money order.
No, Ruby had to go to the downtown Western Union. He had some other business to attend to in that location. What a great cover explanation he had handed to him by Little Lynn and at just the right time.
Joe,
I might be wrong, but I think Little Lynn was living in Fort Worth at the time. I'd have to back and look.
If you look these guys up in the Mary Ferrell Foundation, you should be able to read their FBI statements.
At 10:00 Ruby was supposed to still be in bed.
John Smith, video reporter for WBAP-TV saw Ruby at about 8:00 AM on 11/24 standing on the Commerce St. sidewalk. WBAB-TV truck parked on Commerce St. about 25' from the basement ramp. Smith spoke to Ruby. Saw him again about 10:00 AM next to the ramp. Ruby looked like a person who was "just killing time."
Ira Walker, employee WBAB-TV saw Ruby between 7:30 and 8:00 AM near WBAB-TV truck. Walker said he first saw Ruby shortly after the armored truck was backed into the basement of the Police Department. Ruby came up to the WBAP-TV truck and asked if Oswald had been brought down yet. Walker told him "no". Ruby came up to truck and asked this question on two occasions.
Steve Thomas
-
On 8/3/2019 at 5:39 AM, Steve Thomas said:
Jim,
Here is a 1961 Dallas City Directory.
I haven't looked yet to see where the Western Union offices were.
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth806907/
Steve Thomas
deleted
Steve Thomas
-
16 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
Was there a Western Union closer to Ruby's apartment than the one behind the DPD HQ?
Someone emailed me and said that today there is. But he is not sure if it existed in 1963.
Jim,
Here is a 1961 Dallas City Directory.
I haven't looked yet to see where the Western Union offices were.
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth806907/
Steve Thomas
-
1 hour ago, David Boylan said:
Didn't John Martino say that LHO was to meet his contact at the Texas Theater, flown out of the country and killed?
David,
From jfkfacts.org
https://jfkfacts.org/if-there-was-a-jfk-conspiracy-wouldnt-somebody-have-talked/
"The second person to whom Martino confided was a former business partner named Fred Claassen. He said Martino told him:
“The anti-Castro people put Oswald together. Oswald didn’t know who he was working for — he was just ignorant of who was really putting him together. Oswald was to meet his contact at the Texas Theater [the movie house where Oswald was arrested]. They were to meet Oswald in the theater and get him out of the country, and then eliminate him. Oswald made a mistake . . . there was no way we could get to him. They had Ruby kill him.”"
Steve Thomas
-
On 7/30/2019 at 5:35 PM, David Josephs said:
Steve - this what you looking for?
Mr. BELIN. Then you got down and what did you do?
Mr. SAWYER. I asked the Sergeant to double check the security around the building, and then I took two patrolmen and stationed them at the front door and told them, with instructions not to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. Now up to the time you did this, had anyone else sealed off the building, that you know of?
Mr. SAWYER. When I arrived, the sergeant told me he had the building sealed off. There were officers all around the building. To the best of my recollection, there was no officer actually stationed on the front door, at the front door. There was some on the sidewalk in front of the front door, and also, as far as I know, had no instructions been issued to anyone to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. So yours would have been the first instructions to stop traffic from coming in and out of the front door, am I correct in that?
Mr. SAWYER. That's right.David,
After the assassination, George Lumpkin returned to the TSBD and took command there.
DPD Archives Box 14, Folder# 4, Item# 10 page 22.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box14.htm
According to the Dispatch Tapes, George Lumpkin had arrived at the TSBD by 12:49 PM
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/
15 (Captain C.E. Talbert): “15 is at the scene. We... the building's the Old Purse Company on the east side of Houston. Somebody cut off the back side, will you? Make sure nobody leaves there.”
Dispatcher: “10-4, 15”
15: “15's in charge down here. Correction 5's (Deputy Chief Lumpkin) in charge.”
If Sawyer had “placed guards on the building to prevent anyone from going in or coming out”, why did Lumpkin feel compelled to order that the “building be completely sealed off, that no one be allowed to leave or enter”?
Why was Talbert pleading with Dispatch as late as 12:49 for “somebody to cut off the back side to make sure nobody leaves there”?
No, Sawyer hadn’t sealed the building, he was “detaining everyone who had knowledge whatsoever of the shooting”. There’s a difference.
Steve Thomas
-
40 minutes ago, David Josephs said:
Still pushing my way thru the doc release.... lol
Yet found this in the HSCA alphabetized subject files.... Sawyer appears to have been yet another in the help to convict Ozzie... case in point:
David,
I spent some trying to determine who the first officer was who ordered the TSBD sealed. Sawyer was one of my candidates. In the end, I dismissed his time estimate of when he returned to the first floor.
In another post, Paul Brancato posted a list of the January, 1959 graduates of the FBI's National Academy training. You can see it here:
Curry, Gannaway, Lumpkin, etc.
I think Sawyer was included in that one as well because of his role as one of the National Academy Associates.
If memory serves me right, Hoover cut off training for Dallas policemen at this Academy until Curry rescinded his quote from Hosty to Revill that the FBI knew about Oswald, that Oswald was a communist, and that the FBI knew he was capable of killing the President.
Steve Thomas
-
11 hours ago, Stephanie Goldberg said:
So - question.
In what might be a 2018 release, there's a letter written from the HSCA to the CIA requesting information on various people. The list has some 59 people of all backgrounds, including Mrs. Earle Cabell. (Not sure what the CIA would have had on her?)
Anyway, several people have an FBI number listed in their little brief descriptive blurb. Would that be the number of their FBI file? Those people listed as such are
17 - Robert E (Bob) Edwards
23 - Charles Douglas Givens
28 - James Earl Jarman
31 - Billy Nolan Lovelady
45 - James Elbert Romack
47 - Arnold Rowland
49 - Willam H Shelley
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/docid-32272575.pdf
Stephanie,
I think you'll find what you're looking for in the FBI - HSCA Subject files here:
https://www.maryferrell.org/php/showlist.php?docset=1199
Steve Thomas
-
6 hours ago, Ron Ecker said:
you can’t beat city hall. (And I don’t know who first said that.)
Ron,
Probably somebody from Cook Co., IL.
*smile*
Steve Thomas
-
15 hours ago, B. A. Copeland said:
Whew.....tough question there Steve. If a solid, evidence-based answer to that could be given, the entire Texas Theater gig (officially) would be wounded even further.
B.A,,
I asked. " By possessing the halves of two different bills,...was he supposed to meet up with two different people at different stages who might, or might not know each other?"
I asked that for a reason
Let's envision a scenario where Oswald did do it. He shot the President and killed a policeman; either for his own motives, or at the behest of someone else.
He needed an escape plan that had two parts. The first part was to get out of the country quickly, say by flying to Mexico. The first bill would establish his bona fides there.
The second bill would go towards getting him from Mexico to a second or third country, preferably one with no extradition treaty with the U.S.
There is that curious little story about a plane being held on the runway in Mexico City waiting on the arrival of a single passenger. That one always bothered me a little bit.
Steve Thomas
-
On 7/29/2019 at 10:23 PM, Micah Mileto said:
The note is found in a box/folder/file along with various other unorganized materials.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box7.htm
Box 7, Folder 10, # 26
Description: Note - handwritten, by an unknown author. Handwritten note, (Photocopy), date unknown. 00002288 1 page 07 10 026 2288-001.gifThe circles 180 and 221 are not explained, however the official list of items from Oswald's pocket says his "torn" $1 bill had "300" written on it with pencil.
Micah,
Did you see the next item, Item# 27?
Pictures huh?
Wonder where they got to.
Steve Thomas
\
"Oswald" to Soviets: "...my parents are dead, I have no brothers or sisters."
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Jim,
I have been tracking the known references I have found of Harvey Lee Oswald. So far, I have 29 of them.
This is over and above the Harvey and Lee research that you and John Armstrong have done.
I have tried to trace the earliest reference I can, and from what I've found, it seems to be coming out of Russia of all places.
I think the Harvey Lee Oswald persona was created long before we knew it to be, but by who or why or how, I don't know. I think this persona, or dossier was created and shared across all spectrums of the intelligence community.
I am with Peter Dale Scott on this one:
Lee Harvey Oswald in Russia
An Unauthorized History from the Kennedy Assassination
http://www.russianbooks.org/oswald-in-russia.htm
“This "Harvey Lee Oswald" reference is no accidental anomaly, but part of an organized pattern, widely dispersed, that suggests an official intelligence deception (and possible dual filing system). Serial 02296-E of 27 Jun 60 is the earliest Harvey Lee Oswald reference we now possess of over two dozen, from the files of ONI, FBI, CIA, Army Intelligence, the Secret Service, the Mexican Secret Police (DFS), and the Dallas Police.9
A consistent pattern of behavior in these agencies since the assassination has been the tendency to suppress references to "Harvey Lee Oswald," and replace them by the more standard "Lee Harvey Oswald."10
9 . For a discussion and incomplete list, see Peter Dale Scott, Deep Politics Two, 80, 85-89, 118-19, 142-49.
10. Ibid. especially pp. 118-19.
I think the Harvey Lee Oswald is the Oswald, comma, Harvey Lee (Oswald, Harvey Lee); who registered at the 1026 N. Beckely roominghouse as O.H. Lee and who Earlene Roberts and Arthur Johnson said the police came looking for, some half an hour before Lee Harvey was even arrested at the Texas Theater.
This at least one hour before the Detectives were dispatched from Police Headquarters at 2:40PM.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/johnso_a.htm
Mr. BELIN. How long had you been at the house when the officers arrived?
Mr. JOHNSON. Oh, probably 30 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember about what time of the day they arrived?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it must have been around 1:30 or 2 o'clock--the best I remember.
Mr. BELIN. When did you get home that day from your work?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it was around 1 o'clock or maybe a little bit after.
WC testimony of Earlene Roberts April 8, 1964
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/robertse.htm
Mr. BALL. Do you remember the day the President was shot?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; I remember it---who would forget that?
Mr. BALL. And the police officers came out there?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember what they said?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, it was Will Fritz' men---it was plainclothesmen and I was at the back doing something and Mr. Johnson answered the door and they identified themselves and then he called me.
Mr. BALL. What did they say?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, they asked him if there was a Harvey Lee Oswald there.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mrs. ROBERTS. And he says, "I don't know, I'll have to call the housekeeper," and he called me and I went and got the books and I said, "No; there's no one here by that name," and they tried to make me remember and I couldn't, and Mrs. Johnson come in in the meantime and there wasn't nobody there by that name, and Mrs. Johnson said, "Mrs. Roberts, don't you have him?" And, I said, "No; we don't, for here is my book and there is nobody there by that name." We checked it back a year.
Mr. BALL. And you didn't have that name you didn't ever know his name was Lee Oswald?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No---he registered as O. H. Lee and they were asking for Harvey Lee Oswald.
Steve Thomas