Steve Thomas
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Posts posted by Steve Thomas
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24 minutes ago, Joseph Backes said:
I'm still not seeing anything about Stuart Reed been in military intelligence. Maybe there's something in the more recently released files.
Okay in this item mentioned by Dennis Morissete above it says Stuart served for 30 years with the Secretary of the Army's office of personal management. So, this still isn't military intelligence. It's intriguing. Worthy of further research.
Joe,
FWIW.
I've gone through what little I have on the 316th, the 112th and the 4150th, and haven't run across his name.
Steve Thomas
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On 8/31/2019 at 7:04 PM, Jim Hargrove said:
Steve,
Looks to me that Westbrook was in charge, at least until "Oswald" was sent to police headquarters to be executed, but....
Nevertheless, neither you nor anybody else has shown evidence that George Applin left the theater through the alley exit, nor is there evidence that he left the theater in time to be the man seen by Bernard Haire.
I know you don't agree with me on everything, but do you have a theory about why the list of Texas Theater patrons disappeared while in DPD custody?
Deleted
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10 hours ago, Joseph Backes said:
Jim, according to this document the FBI went out to the ship he was on which left New Orleans and was on its way to the Panama Canal or to the Panama Canal Zone where he worked and spoke with him. It's rather amazing considering how much in Dallas they ignored.
Joe,
Check this out. From your FBI document:
Irving Daily News from Irving, Texas
November 9, 1969 Page 30
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/44056509/
IRVING DAILY NEWS - Sunday, JOE GARLAND KEESEE SP3 U. S. Army Son of Mr. and Mrs. TJ. Keesee of 601 Brandenburg Serving as radio operator in radar tower at missile test range near Kunsan, Korea. Basic training at Fort Bliss, El Paso, radio school at Fort Huachuca, Arizona, then to Korea in July. Irving High School 1967 graduate, attended ElCentro for one year and employed at Dyna Color Corporation prior to joining the army
This doesn't prove anything of course, but it's awfully suggestive. (So is the Fort Huachuca assignment. A lot of the guys in MI spent time there.)
Dyna Color was a a subsidiary of 3M.
Steve Thomas
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On 8/31/2019 at 5:49 AM, Jim Hargrove said:
There is no evidence that George Applin left the theater through the alley exit, nor is there evidence that he left the theater in time to be the man seen by Bernard Haire. (He said he left the theater “later” after the police had questioned the customers.) Nowhere in his affidavit or 1964 testimony does he say when he first saw Main Floor Oswald in the theater.
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Captain, Cecil Talbert was back in that alley too. Talbert was the Captain of the Patrol Division, Second Platoon 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM shift.
Report of Sergeant H.H. Stringer Personnel Bureau, Box 2, Folder# 7, Item# 40.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm
Report of Paul Bentley Box 5, Folder# 2, Item# 71
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box5.htm
There is no report from Talbert in the DPD Archives concerning his actions on the 22nd.
Talbert was in charge of the TSBD until Lumpkin showed up at 12:49 PM.
He was also at the site of Tippit’s shooting. That's where he and Bentley hooked up.
Steve Thomas
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According to Dale Myers, Ward's Drug Store was across the street from the Theater on Jefferson at the corner of Jefferson and Madison.
Steve Thomas
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5 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:
We know that the police officers who spoke to Applin had entered the auditorium by one of two doors which gave access to the auditorium from the alley behind the building. According to Bernard Haire, the alley was full of police cars, and a young white man was taken away in one of those cars. We know that Applin was taken away in a police car so that he could give a statement.
Jeremy,
Buhk, Cunningham, Talylor and Toney were riding together. This is from Buhk's after-action report: (from Box 2 of the DPD Archives).
Cunningham said:
I'm not sure where Ward's Drug Store is in relation to the Theater, or if Buhk moved the car to the alley after letting the other three out. Buhk said, "We brought him to City Hall", so I'm almost certain it was their car that took Applin downtown.
Steve Thomas
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On 8/28/2019 at 9:08 AM, Steve Thomas said:
Jeremy,
You could very well be right.
George Applin's affidavit is found in Box 2, Folder# 2, Item# 3 in the DPD Archives here:
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm
It was taken on the 22nd by Eunice Sorrells, who was a stenographer in Curry's office; and while Toney's name isn't on it, Applin's affidavit was witnessed by Arthurene Teague, who was a typist in the Forgery Bureau, where Toney worked.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf
Steve Thomas
From JFK and the Unspeakable, by James Douglas p, 361
Footnote 823 (pp 486-487) is not included in this online version.
Steve Thomas
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4 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:
It was George who was driven away in a police car,
Jeremy,
You could very well be right.
George Applin's affidavit is found in Box 2, Folder# 2, Item# 3 in the DPD Archives here:
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm
It was taken on the 22nd by Eunice Sorrells, who was a stenographer in Curry's office; and while Toney's name isn't on it, Applin's affidavit was witnessed by Arthurene Teague, who was a typist in the Forgery Bureau, where Toney worked.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf
Steve Thomas
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5 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:
10. Deputy Sheriff Bill Courson wrote "I started up the stairs to the balcony because that' where the call said he was hiding."
Ron,
This is from the Sheriff Department's Dispatch Tapes - CE 705 p. 379.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=405&tab=page
I don't know who 44 and 35 are, or how 35 knew this, but between 1:40 and 1:50, units 24, 61, 25, and 29 responded that they were out at the Theater. 44 said he was enroute. By 1:51, Units 103, 104 and 23 are also there. (That's what? eight Sheriff's Deputies?) By 1:53 the suspect is in custody.
P.S. Ron, as the originator of this thread, I think you are the only one who can edit its title.
Steve Thomas
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Beckham's 28 page interview before investigators for the HSCA:
Beckham’s 28 page interview before the HSCA
https://www.fittonbooks.org/rpf825215.pdf
There is some info about delivering a package to Lawrence Howard in Dallas two weeks before the assassination, but nothing about being in the Theater, or even being in Dallas on the 22nd.
Steve Thomas
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On 8/27/2019 at 10:02 AM, Steve Thomas said:
Richard Gilbrede makes the case that this witness might have been Thomas Edward Beckham.
From Matrix for Assassination by Richard Gilbride. Page 311
Steve Thomas
From Gilbrede's Matrix for Assassination pp. 311-312
If Applin's guy was wearing a "light-colored shirt", and the guy Courson saw coming down the stairs was wearing a "kind of plaid or checkered pattern shirt", they probably weren't the same guy.
Steve Thomas
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On 8/25/2019 at 2:23 PM, Steve Thomas said:
Jim,
1) Who was this witness?
Steve Thomas
Richard Gilbrede makes the case that this witness might have been Thomas Edward Beckham.
From Matrix for Assassination by Richard Gilbride. Page 311
Beckham? Who is Beckham?
From page 310
A Record from Mary's Database
https://www.maryferrell.org/php/marysdb.php?id=941
Record:
BECKHAM, THOMAS EDWARD
Sources:
HSCA, Vol. XII (397); Kennedy Conspiracy, Flammonde (203); Cover-Up, Shaw & Harris (164); New Orleans Times Picayune, 2/3/68 (22); JFK Collection List, pg. 40 (under aliases), pg. 58 (under arrest) (AMKW 78, 96)
Mary's
Comments:Born in Enid, Okla. Associate of David Ferrie's. Arrested with his brother Orville in July 1961 in Algiers (New Orleans) for theft. Singer and disk jockey (using name "Mark Evans"). Street preacher for a mission for Cuban exiles. Corresponded with Fred Crisman, a disk jockey who used name "John Gold". Ran for Congress in 1966 from 2nd Nebraska District. Picture from Garrison's office shows mug shot of Beckham with "sign" hanging around his neck: New Orleans, LA 6/14/62. He was in jail in Mobil, Ala, in 1978 when HSCA had "long interview" with him. Long story in Mobile, Alabama, newspaper. Beckham had a brother, A. M. "Sonny" Beckham, in Slidell, Louisiana.
Subpoenaed Witnesses in Kennedy Probe
(Original Caption) 12/29/1967-New Orleans, LA- The Orleans Parish grand jury issued three subpoenas for witnesses in connection with DA Jim Garrison's Kennedy assassination probe. They are (left to right): Lawrence John Howard Jr., of Los Angeles; Thomas Edward Beckham, of Omaha, NE; and Loran Eugene Hail of Kernville, CA.
Beckham does not appear in the DPD Archives Index.
Steve Thomas
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On 8/25/2019 at 2:23 PM, Steve Thomas said:
5) What happened to this "witness's Affidavit? Why doesn't Toney mention this in his after-action Report?
Steve Thomas
Obituary for Detective John B. ToneyToney, Chief John B. Chief Toney served as Executive Chief for the Dallas County Sheriffs Department from 1981 to 1997 after retiring from Dallas Police Department. He is survived by his wife, Margie Toney. Services will be held 2:00PM Wednesday September 21, 2011 at Eastgate Funeral Home Chapel. Former Sheriff Jim Bowles and other chiefs will be speaking.Published in Dallas Morning News on Sept. 18, 2011
Steve Thomas
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8 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:
That's very disturbing to me. I don't imagine you or anyone else on here want someone else editing their posts for them and I know I don't.
Ron,
That happened to me once; but in that case, another member deliberately changed what I had originally written, so that he could go back ans refute me. It wasn't even a case of being a misquote.
I was furious.
Steve Thomas
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On 8/25/2019 at 12:58 PM, Jim Hargrove said:
Although the list of theater patrons suspiciously disappeared, a few of them have been located over the years. One of was Jack Davis, who confirmed the approximate time “Oswald” went into the concession area where Burroughs was working.Jim,
It's kind of interesting. Both Marvin Buhk and E.E. Taylor said in their after-action reports (DPD Archives Box 2, Folder# 7)
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm
that a witness from the Theater was brought to City Hall and his affidavit was taken by J.B. Toney.
Toney himself did not mention anything about taking this affidavit in his after-action report.
The name Jack Davis does not appear in the DPD Archive index.
1) Who was this witness?
2) Was this witness the person who was taken out the back of the Theater and put in a squad car?
3) In his after-action report, E.E. Taylor wrote that he, Lt. Cunningham and J.B Tony (sic) remained at the Theater and took the names and addresses of the occupants of the Theater. Here is what he wrote:
In his report, Taylor doesn't say anything about this witness having seen Oswald enter the Theater without paying a ticket, so I doubt he is talking about Johnny Brewer, If Jack Davis was taken to City Hall, what happened to his affidavit? Davis was not questioned by the WC either. I have read that Davis was 18 in 1963. Do we know anything more about his life?
4) Did this witness look like Oswald? I personally think this "witness" makes for a stronger case for the guy taken out the back and being put in a squad car than a second Oswald.
5) What happened to this "witness's Affidavit? Why doesn't Toney mention this in his after-action Report?
6) Butch Burroughs does not appear in the DPD Archives Index either. In his WC testimony, Burroughs wasn't asked, and he didn't say anything about being taken down to City Hall and having an Affidavit taken.
Steve Thomas
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9 hours ago, David Von Pein said:
Steve, the 1:19 radio call you highlighted wasn't made by Benavides or Bowley. It's Ted Callaway's radio call.
David,
Thank you.
"Mr. CALLAWAY. I saw a squad car, and by that time there was four or five people that had gathered, a couple of cars had stopped. Then I saw--I went on up to the squad car and saw the police officer lying in the street. I see he had been shot in the head. So the first thing I did, I ran over to the squad car. I didn't know whether anybody reported it or not. So I got on the police radio and called them, and told them a man had been shot, told them the location, I thought the officer was dead. They said we know about it, stay off the air, so I went back."
Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:
The WC, perhaps intentionally, did not take the testimony of Taylor, Cunningham, or Toney. They could have asked any of these officers what they did with their completed lists. The WC did ask Westbrook about the list of theater patrons and, as can be expected, he answered "No; possibly Lieutenant Cunningham will know, but I don't know who has the list." (From November 22, 1963 on the H&L website)
Jim,
It's kind of interesting. Toney, E.E. Taylor, Cunningham and Marvin Buhk were riding in a car together, and went to the Theater.
Their after-action reports are in Box 2, Folder# 7 of the DPD Archives http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm
Taylor# 55
Toney# 62
Cunningham# 65
Taylor was Narcotics in the Special Service Bureau under Captain Gannaway.
Toney and Cunningham were in Forgery under Captain Orville Jones.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf
Several of them speak of compiling such a list, but not one of them said what they did with it.
Having different Captains, I don't know that they would necessarily have turned it over to Westbrook. I think if Cunningham took charge of it, he could have turned it over to his own Captain in Forgery, or maybe Fritz who was heading the investigation as Head of the Homicide and Robbery Bureau.
Everybody who transported LHO back to City Hall though did seem to congregate back in Westbrook's office afterwards - more space perhaps?
Steve Thomas
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24 minutes ago, Ian Lloyd said:
So Benavides gives the address as 404 Tenth Street but the dispatcher calls a Signal 19 at 510 E. Jefferson?
Ian,
Yep. It appears that way. I never have figured that one out.
Steve Thomas
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It doesn't appear to me that there was any confusion on Benavides' part.
We only have Bowley's word that Benavides didn't know how to use the radio.
I had no idea that Bowley worked as a doorman at the Vegas Club and that his wife, Joyce was also a barmaid there.
When Dispatch told the citizen to stay off the air, that they already had that information; that was three minutes after the fact.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/benavide.htm
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Then I don't know if I opened the car door back further than what it was or not, but anyway, I went in and pulled the radio and I mashed the button and told them that an officer had been shot, and I didn't get an answer, so I said it again, and this guy asked me whereabouts all of a sudden, and I said, on 10th Street. I couldn't remember where it was at at the time. So I looked up and I seen this number and I said 410 East 10th Street.
Mr. BELIN - You saw a number on the house then?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BENAVIDES - Then he started to--then I don't know what he said; but I put the radio back. I mean, the microphone back up, and this other guy was standing there, so I got up out of the car, and I don't know, I wasn't sure if he heard me, and the other guy sat down in the car.
Mr. BELIN - There was another passerby that stopped?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Who was he, do you know?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I couldn't tell you. I don't know who he was.
Mr. BELIN - Was he driving a car or walking?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I don't know. He was just standing there whenever I looked up. He was standing at the door of the car, and I don't know what he said to the officer or the phone, but the officer told him to keep the line clear, or something, and stay off the phone, or something like that. That he already knew about it. So then I turned and walked off. I never did assist him after that at all.http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bowley.htm
AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS Affidavit taken 12/2/63BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared T.F. Bowley w/m/35 of 1454 Summertime Lane, TE6 5965 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:
On Friday November 22, 1963 I picked up my daughter at the R. L. Thornton School in Singing Hills at about 12:55 pm. I then left the school to pick up my wife who was at work at the Telephone Company at Ninth Street and Zangs Street. I was headed north on Marsalis and turned west on 10th Street. I traveled about a block and noticed a Dallas police squad car stopped in the traffic lane headed east on 10th Street. I saw a police officer lying next to the left front wheel. I stopped my car and got out to go to the scene. I looked at my watch and it said 1:10 pm. Several people were at the scene. When I got there the first thing I did was try to help the officer. He appeared beyond help to me. A man was trying to use the radio in the squad car but stated he didn't know how to operate it. I know how and took the radio from him. I said, "Hello, operator. A police officer has been shot here." The dispatcher asked for the location. I found out the location and told the dispatcher what it was. A few minutes later an ambulance came to the scene.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=205582&relPageId=15&search=T.F._Bowley
A Record from Mary's Database
Record:
BOWLEY, TEMPLE F. "TOM"
Mary's
Comments:Shown as "Bewley" in error. Representative of Western Electric. Wife: Joyce. Joyce worked as barmaid at Vegas Club during time Bowley worked there as a doorman.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=149247&relPageId=5&search=T.F._Bowley
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes2.htm
1:15 PM
Dispatcher
Unit ending in 6.
(Long pause, 15 seconds)
1:16 PM
1:19 PM (three minutes later)
Citizen
Pardon, from out here on Tenth Street, 500 block. This officer just shot. I think he's dead.
Dispatcher
10-4. We have that information. The citizen using the radio: Remain off the radio now.
Steve Thomas
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6 hours ago, David Andrews said:
BTW, to all -- How are we certain that an "Oswald" defector cut his wrist in Moscow and was conveniently rescued?
David,
Have you ever read the doctor's report from Russia?
I think it's in that batch of documents in CE 985.
If I remember right, it's kind of revealing. Only a couple of stitches and no tendons or ligaments were cut. I think he was suspicious of Oswald's language ability and whether he could or could not understand Russian.
Steve Thomas
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Does the ignore function still work?
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10 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:
It sounds as if you have compiled many more examples. I’d love to see your full list.
Jim,
Rather than post it here, could I invite you to look at my web site?
https://myjfksite.weebly.com/
The Heading is "Harvey Lee Oswald", and it's about 3/5 down the page.
The Headings are in red.
Steve Thomas
Military intelligence photographer
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Steve Thomas
Deleted
Steve Thomas