On 7/22/2019 at 5:59 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

From the Dallas Police Department:

 

 

Jim,

By possessing the halves of two different bills, do you think LHO was supposed to meet up with one person who also had the halves to those two bills; or that he was supposed to meet up with two different people at different stages who might, or might not know each other?

Steve Thomas

7 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Very good point Steve, all that admin was done after the press conference.

Bart,

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/carroll.htm

"Mr. CARROLL. When we got down in the basement and brought Oswald up, I was in front with everyone else surrounding him and we walked directly from the car to the elevator, got on the elevator and went up to the third floor to the homicide and robbery office and took him right into the homicide and robbery office and took him into one of our interrogation rooms, where we released him to the homicide and robbery office."

If he had gone through booking, they would have made him empty his pockets. The whole controversy with the bullets in his pocket, and the bus transfer could have been avoided.

Was that by design, or did the DPD seize on an opportunity to plant evidence?

Steve Thomas

Why wasn't Oswald booked when they got back to the police station?

Why did they skip booking and take him directly to the third floor Homicide offices?

I've never read a good explanation for that.

As a matter of fact, I don't remember ever reading any explanation for that.

Steve Thomas

15 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Thanks to Malcolm Blunt for the files. Digitised by yours truly.

 

Bart,

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/carroll.htm

Mr. BELIN. During the drive down from the Texas Theatre, to the police station, do you remember any conversation with Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. CARROLL. Some. He stated that he had not done anything that - he said, "Well, I was carrying a pistol, but that is all."
Mr. BELIN. Was he ever asked his name?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; he was asked his name.
Mr. BELIN. Did he give his name?
Mr. CARROLL. He gave, the best I recall, I wasn't able to look closely, but the best I recall, he gave two names, I think. I don't recall what the other one was.
Mr. BELIN. Did he give two names? Or did someone in the car read from the identification?
Mr. CARROLL. Someone in the car may have read from the identification. I know two names, the best I recall, were mentioned.
Mr. BELIN. Were any addresses mentioned?
Mr. CARROLL. Not that I recall; no, sir.

So much for the wallet in the back pocket huh?

Steve Thomas

8 hours ago, Stephanie Goldberg said:

I'm in the US, and I do not understand how to access the book online via archives, either. I did a quick search and nothing resembling that appeared.

See Box 43, Folders 4, 5, and 6.

https://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/taro/baypll/20020/bpll-20020.html

I don't know if these are scanned and available online or not.

Steve Thomas

7 hours ago, Stephanie Goldberg said:

There's one report done on 11/23/63, although I do not understand the THROUGH Lt Jack Revill part of the heading.

 

Stephanie,

Captain Gannaway was the head of the Special Service Bureau in the Dallas Police Department. Stringfellow was one of the Detectives in that Bureau. Many of the Detectives in that Bureau submitted their reports to Gannaway by routing them through Jack Revill, who was a Lieutenant, and served directly under Gannaway.

See Batchelor's Exhibit 5002 in Vol XIX of the WC Hearings and Exhibits. (p. 120 of the Exhibit/p. 4 of the pdf file)

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf

I have found this document very helpful over the years.

Steve Thomas

3 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

If (If, for example, Nancy Perrin Rich's mysterious Lt. Col. to whom Ruby allegedly handed a bag of cash to facilitate a guns for Cubans deal, was in fact, Ruby's handler, and if that Lt. Col. was L. Robert Castorr, and If Ruby spilled that name to Kilgallen, well . . .)

 

Paul,

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/rich_n.htm

Mrs. RICH. "At the first meeting there were four people present. There was a colonel, or a light colonel, I forgot which. I also forget whether he was Air Force or Army. It seems to me he was Army. And it seems to me he was regular Army."

The Mexia Daily News from Mexia, Texas · Page 1

November 7, 1957

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/11876796/

Mexia Man Receives Appointment Earl McKeilh, (center) is pictured with L. Robert Castorr, of Dallas, Southwestern division manager of the National Federation of Independent Business, and Si N. Meadow, district manager of the organization from Austin.

“Earl McKeith was coming out of a local bank Tuesday and came face to face with a man who was one of his fellow Army officers in the early thirties. Earl didn't recognize him but L. Robert Castorr, of Dallas, immediately grabbed Earl's arm and said "I know you." Mr. Castorr. who is now a- colonel in the Active Reserve serving as inspector and advisor to the 90th Division in Texas.,

Steve Thomas

On 7/19/2019 at 6:56 AM, Lewis Reynolds said:

I'm just listening to a radio show about Dorothy Kilgallen.

It mentions that Dorothy got information from someone else that she published in an article.

This information was about a meeting, 8 days before the assassination, between Jack Ruby, Officer Tippitt and Bernard Wiseman at Rubys club.

Supposedly the Warren Commission knew about this meeting and choose to ignore it as they had been told a fourth man was at it (a Texan oilman).

Does anyone have anymore information about this meeting? Has this been written about before? Who was Bernard Wiseman?

Thanks in advance.

Lewis,

http://www.covertbookreport.com/carroll-jarnagin-did-he-actually-witness-ruby-with-oswald/

Carroll Jarnagin; Did He Actually Witness Ruby With Oswald?

By John Titus with research by Carson Horton

April 29, 2016

But the (Carroll) Jarnagin story doesn’t end there. Jarnagin later approached Forth Worth Star-Telegram reporter Waldo Thayer with a new claim that he witnessed Bernard Weissman (who was the signer of the infamous black-bordered advertisement that appeared in the Dallas Morning News on November 22), Jack Ruby, and Dallas police officer J.D. Tippit meeting in the Carousel Club on November 14, 1963, just a few days before the assassination. Later investigation showed that the meeting never happened. Thayer later told conspiracy author and attorney Mark Lane about the claim which became a featured part of Lane’s 1966 book Rush to Judgment, although Lane didn’t reveal the name of the informant who he considered a reliable and responsible person. [Aynesworth, Hugh, JFK: Breaking the News, International Focus Press, 2003, p.231; Lane, Mark, Rush to Judgment, Holt, Rinehart & Winston, 1966, p.249] 

November 14th would have been eight days before the assassination.

You'll have to read the article and decide for yourself if Jarnigan was telling the truth.

Steve Thomas

1 hour ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Steve,

 

Steve, as you know from having read Joachim Joesten's "Marina Oswald", Joesten speculated about Marina's complicity in setting up her husband. While unlikely, it is not impossible, and therefore, it is not inconceivable that she was a conscious part of the assassination plot.

Unlikely, but not impossible.

If those really are Marina's signatures on the examples you attached above, then I'd say Joachim Joesten made a pretty shrewd guess more than 50 years ago.

Paul,

I think Marina was involved in something, but I don't know what it was. Personally, I think it had something to do with inserting her in the Dallas/Fort Worth aerospace industry milieu, but I can't prove that.

I keep going back to a letter that Lee wrote to his mother while he was in Russia.

CE 183

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=561&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=562&tab=page

(page 538 of CE 183)

Letter from Lee Harvey Oswald to Marguerite Oswald, dated October 22, 1959, with envelope. (The year 1959 is obviously a mistake. It should be 1961.). He mentions Marina in the letter. He spells Marina's maiden name as Proosakova. The typist spells it Proosakava. In his letter he writes, “For my birthday, Marina sent me a gold and silver cup with the inscription, “To my Dear Husband on his birthday 18/X/61 very nice don't you think, Marina is on her vacation (sic) now, she is spending it with her aunt in the city of “KHARKOV” about 600 miles South East of here.... We both agreeded (sic) that she should go to a new enviroment (sic) on her vaction (sic)...”

In the body of the letter, Lee Oswald uses the Americanized version of the date, October 22, 1959, but the gold and silver cup is inscribed with the Cryllic date of 18/X/61. This makes me think of the controversy over the DeMohrenschildt, “Hunter For Fascists” photograph, with the date written in the Cryllic fashion. Also, in October, Lee and Marina had only been married for six months. What newly married couple agrees to take separate vacations? Why would they both agree that she should take her vacation 600 miles away? (My own thought is that with their astrological signs being squared, they really didn't get along. I wonder why they got married in the first place). Either that, or Marina was being briefed on getting to the U.S.

Steve Thomas

4 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Steve,

Marguerite may have been right: Marina and June may have been living there with a man and another child briefly in the spring of 1963. All of which lends credence to "Oswald's" vehement denials that HE ever lived there!

Paul,

I know I am going to catch a lot of flak for this, but, for right now,  I believe that it was Marina who ordered the rifle.

I say this for the following reasons: I can provide citations for these if you'd like.

1. Oswald admitted he had the Alek James Hidell Selective Service card in his possession, bur either “denied” or “declined to admit” that the signature was his, and then refused to discuss it further. I think the SS card and the rifle order form were signed by the same person.

2. Marina admitted to signing the name “Hidell” to “two or three cards” with the name “Hidell” that were not pamphlets and which were not the FPCC membersship card.

3. Marina said on at least three occasions that they were living on Neely St. in January, and initially, that she had seen Lee cleaning the rifle in January (which she later corrected to mean she saw it for the first time in March).

4. The handwriting experts commissioned by the HSCA were not asked to analyze the signature on the Hidell Selective Service card, or to compare the signature on the rifle order form with the signature on the DeMohrenschildt rifle photo.

5. The troubling instances of evidence in this case in Marina Oswald's possession, appearing after the Oswald's belongings had previously been seized and searched by the Dallas Police.

SS card on top, rifle order form below.

Steve Thomas

http://www.librarysimplified.org/

“Tired of DRM and customer log-in schemes used to sell you more stuff? Simply enter your library card number once, and start reading, from your library, for free. If you don't have a library card…just sign up for one with the app!

Simply Read

Just open the book (not another app) to read, and enjoy the full story. Library Simplified uses the next generation of eBook technology and digital rights management (DRM) technology to make reading on your phone or tablet simple and convenient.“

http://www.librarysimplified.org/clientappfaq.html

SimplyE iOS

You can use the SimplyE app to borrow e-books from your iPhone, iPad, or iPod Touch. You will need a valid library card and PIN, and iOS 8.0 or later on your device.

• • • • Install SimplyE on your iPhone, iPad, or iPod Touch

SimplyE Android

You can use the SimplyE app to borrow e-books from NYPL for your Android Tablet or Smartphone. You will need a valid library card and PIN, and Andorid device.

• • • • Install SimplyE on your Android Device

Steve Thomas

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

btw, steve, where is that article by Shaw and Fensterwald.

Jim,

I'm not sure what article you are referring to, but there is this:

"Summary of Paris Trip"

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/S%20Disk/Souetre%20Jean%20with%20aka's/Item%2011.pdf

Or are you thinking of this?

"A Possible French Connection"

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/S Disk/Souetre et al, Published/Item 02.pdf

Steve Thomas

4 hours ago, Rob Couteau said:

Cottrell follows with this passage on François Grossouvre:

"The death - or murder - within the precincts of the presidential palace set off a political earthquake around the tottering regime of Francois Mitterrand, the renowned escapologist of French politics. François Grossouvre, 76-year-old aristocrat found slumped at his desk on 7th April 1994, with two bullet holes drilled in his temple, was a fading old retainer in the Gothic Court of France's nominally socialist president." (In France, Mitterrand and his party were widely referred to as Caviar Socialists.) "He was long celebrated as the man in the shadows for his links to the French military-espionage complex, and guardian of uncomfortable truths concerning Mitterrand's much air-brushed past as collaborator and sympathizer with the extremist pre-war Far-Right. He was also the man who knew too much about the sitting president's role in serial attempts to kill General de Gaulle."

Now, speaking about the suspicious "suicide" of  François Grossouvre:

"The small difficulty was that slugs fired by the pistol which sent him to eternity appeared not to perfectly match the revolver, a .357 Magnum which he was still gripping in one hand. Another curiosity was exactly how he managed to score two shots to his own head.... [When François Grossouvre died] he carried off many useful secrets. The man of the shadows was former commandant in chief of the French stay-behind army, who began his secret military career as officer-in-charge of Arc en Ciel - the Rainbow - based in Lyon. He was privy to Mitterrand's personal decision to sink the Greenpeace yacht Rainbow Warrior in Auckland harbour, New Zealand, on 10th July 1985. And he knew exactly why Mitterrand sanctified Yves Guerin-Serac, the most fanatical terrorist in contemporary French history. In the course of a long life as a wealthy businessman, media magnate, counselor of state, agent for French external intelligence SDECE and the CIA, the lean-framed, bearded aristocrat managed to find time to father six children. But he was really married to his lifelong muse en chef, Francois Mitterrand."

(I only wish this book was better footnoted and sourced.)

5 hours ago, Rob Couteau said:

 In Richard Cottrell's book, "Gladio: NATO's Dagger at the Heart of Europe," the author is less restrained and at times more speculative. For example, he says..."Certainly he is the only known survivor from the ranks of the OAS to receive what amounts to a presidential pardon.

 

Rob,

I don't know exactly why Cottrell would say that.

In July, 1968, Charles DeGaulle issued a general amnesty for all those involved in the "Algerian affair".  If my memory serves me right, some 13,000 OAS members had been arrested at that point.

Souetre himself would go on run for several local municipal elections under the banner of the National Front Party. In 2000 he ran for a seat on the European Parliment. (He lost).

I've been trying to determine which had more influence on Jean-Rene's character. The trans-national sentiment of the Gladio movement represented by Guerin Serac, or the nationalistic influences of the Integrelistes. It's hard for me to understand how an ultra orthodox Catholic could countenance the murder of a Catholic President.

I think there are two ingredients that help understand Souetre's character.: One was the Integraliste movement; and the other was DeGaulle's suspension of Article 16 of the French Constitution.

1) Integralism

There was a throwaway line in something Jean-Claude Perez told Fensterwald in 1982. He said that,

“post 1962, Souetre was part of an ultra-right, ultra-Catholic splinter group which included four men named Pichon, Lefevre, Bourget, and Grossouvre. Group called Integraliste
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/S%20Disk/Souetre%20Jean%20with%20aka%27s/Item%2011.pdf

p. 4.

(Albert Lefevre, by the way, was the one man I could find that both stood trial with Souetre in December, 1961 and who escaped with him from the Camp at St. Maurice L'Ardoise in February, 1962.)

From Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integralism

Integralism is an ideology according to which a nation is an organic unity. Integralism defends social differentiation and hierarchy with co-operation between social classes, transcending conflict between social and economic groups. It advocates trade unionism (or a guild system), corporatism, and organic political representation instead of ideological forms of representation. Integralism claims that the best political institutions for given nations will differ depending on the history, culture and climate of the nation's habitat. Often associated with blood and soil conservatism, it posits the nation or the state or the nation state as an end and a moral good, rather than a means.[1]

The term integralism was coined by the French journalist Charles Maurras, whose conception of nationalism was illiberal and anti-internationalist, elevating the interest of the state above that of the individual and above humanity in general.[1]

Although it is marked by its being exclusionary and particularistic, and there has been consideration of its historic role as a sort of proto-fascism (in a European context)[1] or para-fascism (in a South American context),[2] this link remains controversial, with some social scientists positing that it combines elements of both the political left and right.[3]

Catholic Integralism does not support the creation of an autonomous "Catholic" state church, or Erastianism (Gallicanism in French context). Rather it supports subordinating the state to the worldwide Catholicism under the leadership of the Pope. Thus it rejects separation of the Catholic Church from the state and favours Catholicism as the proclaimed religion of the state.[5]

Catholic Integralism appeals to the teaching on the subordination of temporal to spiritual power of medieval popes such as Pope Gregory VII and Pope Boniface VIII. But Catholic Integralism in the strict sense came about as a reaction against the political and cultural changes which followed the Enlightenment and the French Revolution.[6

Steve Thomas

3 hours ago, Rob Couteau said:

Interesting observation, Jim. I think it's a combination of good Swiss genes and more importantly a lot of joie de vivre. According to wiki, he will be 47 years old on 29 August. Happy Birthday Dr Ganser. As you'll see, he tries to end even that sordid Gladio chronicle on a high note. I'm planning on reading it a second time, as there is just too much in there to retain on one reading. Ditto Philip Willan's "Puppetmasters."

Rob,

Just for your own info, the photo of Souetre you included in your essay appeared in an article by Jean-Claude Sanchez, Editor-in-Chief of the magazine "Debout les Paras" Le Journal de L'Union Nationale des Parachutistes. Jean-Claude Sanchez was the President of the Haute-Savoie section of the U.N.P. in 1982.

Caption under the photo reads: (Le Capitaine Souetre in Timimoun in 1957.)

The Timimoun District is in Adrar Province, south-central Algeria.

There was a throwaway line in something Jean-Claude Perez told Fensterwald in 1982 in the "A Possible French Connection". He said that,

“post 1962, Souetre was part of an ultra-right, ultra-Catholic splinter group which included four men named Pichon, Lefevre, Bourget, and Grossouvre. Group called Integraliste
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/S%20Disk/Souetre%20Jean%20with%20aka%27s/Item%2011.pdf page 4.

Stay-behind: les réseaux d’ingérence américains

The American interference network – Gladio

http://www.voltairenet.org/article8691.html#nh27

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.voltairenet.org%2Farticle8691.html%23nh27

François de Grossouvre (29 March 1918 – 7 April 1994) was a French politician charged in 1981 by newly elected president François Mitterrand with overseeing national security and other sensitive matters, in particular those concerning Lebanon, Syria, Morocco, Gabon, the Persian Gulf countries, Pakistan and the two Korea. He was also in charge of the French branch of Gladio, Nato's stay-behind paramilitary secret armies during the Cold War. He was found dead with gunshot wounds at the Élysée Palace, the French President's official residence. The official verdict was suicide.

Isn't it odd that he would commit suicide in the French President's official residence?

François de Grossouvre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/François_de_Grossouvre

In 1943 he married Claudette Berger, daughter of an industrialist, Antoine Berger, and had six children. Grossouvre managed his family-in-law's companies Le Bon Sucre (1944–63) and A. Berger et Cie (1949–63), and then founded the Générale Sucrière sugar company. Along with Italian collaborators, businessman Gilbert Beaujolin and the American Alexandre Patty, he succeeded in obtaining an exclusive production licence for Coca-Cola and building the first factory of this type in France. Distribution was by the Société parisienne de boissons gazeuses and the Glacières de Paris, both subsidiaries of Pastis Pernod.

(Remember Souetre was the manager? director? of a sugar company in Martinique)

According to Fensterwald in A Possible French Connection, Souetre “spent much time in Martinique where nominally, he was the Director of a sugar refinery whose head office was in France at Arcis sur Aube.”

http://www.xiconhoca.org/PDF/DDeRoux/Apossiblefrenchconnection.pdf page 13 of the memo page 15 of the pdf.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcis-sur-Aube

“Besides many big farms producing all sorts of cereals, the sugar industry has a big plant there Cristal Union.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/François_de_Grossouvre

During World War II, François de Grossouvre was posted as auxiliary physician in a regiment of Moroccan tirailleurs, and then joined the ski troops in the Vercors region. There he met Captain Bousquet, who created one of the first units of the Organisation de résistance de l'armée (ORA). He then returned to Lyon, where he received his doctorate in 1942. Afterward, he became doctor of the 11th regiment of Cuirassiers, headed by Colonel Lormeau.[4]

Grossouvre then became a member of Joseph Darnand's Service d'ordre légionnaire (SOL), a Vichyst militia. He left it in 1943 to fight in the Vercors, joining the Maquis of the Chartreuse, near Grenoble (code-name "Clober"). After the Liberation, it was found that he had in fact infiltrated the SOL on behalf of ORA.

Grossouvre was then recruited in 1950 by the French SDECE intelligence agency to replace Gilbert Union, official in Lyon and who had worked with the military agency BCRA, and became leader of Arc-en-Ciel, the regional branch of Gladio (Lyon region), NATO's stay-behind anti-communist organizations during the Cold War, under the code-name "Monsieur Leduc".[1][5] According to former SDECE agent Louis Mouchon, "His business, the A. Berger et Cie Sugar company, offered ample opportunities to stage fronts. He really had excellent contacts." According to The Economist's obituary, "He was recruited into the French espionage service and helped to organise Gladio, an American backed plan to create an armed resistance movement in Western Europe against a Russian invasion."

Created by Colonel Fourcaud, in liaison with the US National Security Council, and then by Grossouvre, this network allegedly used the SAC Gaullist militia and the DPS, the National Front's currently dissolved militia.[6] The DPS was created along with Jacques Foccart, after the 1982 dissolution of the SAC, and allegedly provided mercenaries for activities in the former French colonies in Africa.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/François_de_Grossouvre

According to former SDECE agent Louis Mouchon, "His business, the A. Berger et Cie Sugar company, offered ample opportunities to stage fronts. He really had excellent contacts."

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.voltairenet.org%2Farticle8691.html%23nh27

“For example, two regional stay-behind managers, Gilbert Beaujolin and François Durand de Grossouvre (aka "Monsieur Leduc"), set up a commercial company which immediately benefited from Coca-Cola's exclusive bottling concession [ 27 ] “

Steve Thomas

Bart,

Bravo mon ami.

Steve Thomas

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Steve:

That is what I mean. 

So is there any documentation in evidence that Oswald paid his rent there? 

Jim,

Mr. Tobias was interviewed by FBI Agents, Allan Bray and Raymond Yalchak on January 28, 1964 at which time he showed them rent receipts which were examined, but there is no indication they took the receipts with them.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57771&search=Tobias#relPageId=27&tab=page

The Tobiases were interviewed by the WC on April 2, 1964 at which time pages from the rent receipt book were read into the record, but the books themselves were returned to the Tobiases.

Mr. Tobias said,

"Mr. JENNER. I appreciate your cooperation. These are your original receipt books and we have recited them in the record and now return them to you and thank you very much for bringing them.
Mr. TOBIAS. I have one of these I keep ever since I been in that apartment and I been there for 3 years and a half and I have got every receipt I ever wrote and I keep it on records and lots of times I have to go back to them and there's only one person that doesn't get into them and that's the credit department."

Mrs. Tobias said,

"Mr. JENNER. Excuse me--may I ask you a few questions about that--you keep a record of all receipts?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Oh, yes; we have one--they get one and the owner gets one.
Mr. JENNER. When a rent payment is made, you make an entry in the book you have before you of having received a certain amount of money. It's in duplicate or triplicate--the tenant gets a copy of the receipt, you retain one in your book and you send one of the owners of the building?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Well, she gets the name of it..."

I do not remember ever seeing any Elsbeth St. rent receipts in the inventory of items seized at 2515 W. Fifth or 1026 N. Beckley.

I'm not aware of any of the earlier researchers from the early 1960's ever going back and asking to see them.

Steve Thomas

6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Steve:

Funny story.  These guys were just stooges.  Reminds me of Belin showing that witness the wrong jacket. Or what they did with VIctoria Adams-which takes the cake.  They switched a map of the first floor out and placed Oswald's work application in the volumes.

 

Mr. JENNER. Well, there is a receipt here No. 0178, dated January 4, 1963, "issued to L. H. Oswald for $68 for the rent of Apartment No. 2 from January 3, 1963, to and including February 3, 1963," and it is signed M. F. Tobias, Sr.

Mrs. TOBIAS. Okay. Now, I couldn't swear that that was who the guy was. Now, do you want me to leave the books with you?
Mr. JENNER. Yes; leave the books and we will give them to your husband. Tobias Exhibit No. 1 is offered in evidence.
Mrs. TOBIAS. Okay.

WC testimony of Mr. Mahlon. F. Tobias, Sr. Manager of 602 and 604 Elsbeth

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/tobias_m.htm

Mr. JENNER. I appreciate your cooperation. These are your original receipt books and we have recited them in the record and now return them to you and thank you very much for bringing them.
 

The only problem is that the receipt books are not in evidence. Tobias Exhibits 1 and 2 in Volume XXI of the WC Hearings are hand drawn maps of the Elsbeth St. neighborhood.

Steve Thomas

8 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Joe,

Here is the Occam's Razor answer:

Marina lied her eyes out about the rifle.

"Oswald" neither owned nor possessed any rifle. 

He never ordered one, he never bought one, he never paid for one, he never handled one after the Marine Corps and he never had one of his own.

He was framed.

Paul,

David is right. Based on the evidence we have, Oswald was guilty as sin.

Here's an example. This comes from Marina's testimony of February 6, 1964:

"Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence Exhibit 135.
The CHAIRMAN. It will be admitted.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 135, and received in evidence.)
Mr. RANKIN. I call the Commission's attention to the fact that this is the coupon under which it appears the rifle was ordered, showing an enclosed $10 notation--"Check for $29.95, A. G. Hidell, age 28, post office box 2915, Dallas, Texas"
And it is marked, "One quantity. Point 38 ST. W. 2 inch barrel, 29.95." and underlined is 29.95, and an arrow at that point."

Ummmmm...

Exhibit 135 is an order form for the pistol, not the rifle.

CE 773 was the Klein's Order Form for the Rifle

CE 788 was the Postal Money Order for the Rifle

With that kind of evidence.......

Steve Thomas

The HSCA was 14 years after the fact.

Back in 1964...

"Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the first time that you observed the rifle?
Mrs. OSWALD. That was on Neely Street. I think that was in February.
Mr. RANKIN. How did you learn about it? Did you see it some place in the apartment?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, Lee had a small room where he spent a great deal of time, where he read---where he kept his things, and that is where the rifle was.
Mr. RANKIN. Was it out in the room at that time, as distinguished from in a closet in the room?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, it was open, out in the open. At first I think---I saw some package up on the top shelf, and I think that that was the rifle. But I didn't know. And apparently later he assembled it and had it in the room.
Mr. RANKIN. When you saw the rifle assembled in the room, did it have the scope on it?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, it did not have a scope on it.

Warren Commission testimony of Marina Oswald, 1964

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/oswald_m1.htm

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, Lee had a small room where he spent a great deal of time, where he read---where he kept his things, and that is where the rifle was.
Mr. RANKIN. Was it out in the room at that time, as distinguished from in a closet in the room?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, it was open, out in the open. At first I think---I saw some package up on the top shelf, and I think that that was the rifle. But I didn't know. And apparently later he assembled it and had it in the room.
Mr. RANKIN. When you saw the rifle assembled in the room, did it have the scope on it?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, it did not have a scope on it.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall seeing the rifle when the telescopic lens was on it?
Mrs. OSWALD. I hadn't paid any attention initially.
I know a rifle was a rifle. I didn't know whether or not it had a telescope attached to it. But the first time I remember seeing it was in New Orleans, where I recognized the telescope. But probably the telescope was on before. I simply hadn't paid attention.
I hope you understand. When I saw it, I thought that all rifles have that.

I don't know whether he took it from the house or whether perhaps he even kept the rifle somewhere outside. There was a little square, sort of a little courtyard where he might have kept it."

So, let me see if I've got this straight.

Marina first saw the rifle in February, before it had even been purchased.

She first told the FBI that she saw Lee cleaning the rifle in January, but then later told them that she was mistaken and that the cleaning had taken place in March.

It was kept out in the open, but maybe he kept it outside.

She never actually saw him take the rifle away from the apartment and never talks about seeing him bring it back.

Lee took the rifle on Sunday, but the shooting (Walker) wasn't until Wednesday. Where was the rifle in the meantime?

She said that Lee had told her her buried the rifle after the shooting. When did he go back and dig it up?

When she saw the rifle, it didn't have a scope on it, but knew it had a scope because she recognized it.

I read that Love Field is something like six miles from where they lived on Neely St., so he would have had to have taken the bus, unless someone was giving him rides – all the time while he working at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall.

Lee was riding a bus for six miles with a rifle, several times.

Steve Thomas

40 minutes ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Steve asked "Did the apartment house at 214. Neely have mailboxes?"

As of June of 2014, it sure did. Also, it appears that these mailboxes (vertical and black to the left of the doors to 212 and 214 W. Neely) in 2014 are identical to the mailboxes in this picture from (1963?)

https://srhistorical.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/neely-house-oswald-20141.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KVIzzXiMlo4/U5n5MTYf5tI/AAAAAAABGys/upz32GeQ9fw/s1600/Screen+Shot+2014-06-12+at+9.01.25+PM.png

Paul,

Thanks. That answers a question I've had in my mind for a long time.

Steve Thomas

14 hours ago, Stephanie Goldberg said:

If a person wants to obtain a Dallas Police Department report from an incident in the 1960's, does anyone here know if you those files would be requested through the DPD or through a state archives?

🙂

Stephanie,

I've used this site a lot over the years:

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/index.html

The index is helpful, and after you use the documents for a while, you get a feel for which boxes contain which types of records.

For non-JFK related police records, the DPD materials would probably be housed at the Texas State Archives at the Texas State Library in Austin.

Steve Thomas

In the Spring of 1963, it was Marina who James Hosty was tracking. Did he think she was another Lydia Dimytruk?

Lydia Dimytruk is Kleinlerer's girlfriend. (Alexander Kleinlerer visited Marina When she was living with Elena Hall in the Fall of 1962. He helped load the U-Haul trailer to move the Oswalds from Fort Worth to Elsbeth St. in Dallas.

For more information on Lydia Dimytruk, see: (she is a piece of work!)

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/105-82555/105-82555%20More%20Referrals/105-82555%20More%20Referrals%203-04.pdf

pp. 13-33, Suspected of being a Russian spy. Formerly married to Vasily Kostenko, also suspected of being a Russian spy.

She marries Pavel Dimytruk in 1956. Emigrates to the U.S. In 1959 and divorces him in 1960.

Sound familiar?

James Hosty told the WC:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hosty.htm

Mr. STERN. Did you take over from Agent Fain or in some other way?
Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; I did not take over directly. When Agent Fain retired directly from the Bureau he had closed the case. He had a case which we call a pending inactive case on Mrs. Marina Oswald. This case I did take over. It was in what we call a pending inactive status, that is, nothing was to be done for a period of 6 months. Then at the end of the 6-month period it was then turned into a pending case and I went out and attempted to locate Mrs. Marina Oswald for the purpose of interviewing her.
I might add that it is the practice of the FBI to interview immigrants from behind the Iron Curtain on a selective basis, and she was so selected to be one of these persons to be interviewed.
Mr. STERN. When was this?
Mr. HOSTY. This was March 4, 1963, when I began my inquiry as to her present whereabouts. I determined on March 4, 1963, through the Immigration and Naturalization Service records that she had moved from Fort Worth to the Dallas area. She was living on a street called Elsbeth Street in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas.
Mr. STERN. What happened in connection with the case of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. HOSTY. This case was closed at this time. It was closed.
On March 11, 1963, I made inquiry at this Elsbeth address, and determined from the landlady, I believe her name was Mrs. Tobias, that she had just evicted Lee and Marina Oswald from her apartment building because of their alleged fighting and his alleged drinking. They caused a disturbance and she had asked him to leave on March 3, 1963. She told me they had moved a short distance away. She didn't know where. On that same date, I was able to determine from the postal authorities that they had changed their address to 214 Neely Street, also in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas.
On the 14th of March, I verified that Oswalds were residing at this address when I found the mailbox with the name of Lee and Marina Oswald at this address, 214 Neely Street.

Did the apartment house at 214 Neely have mailboxes?

Would the Oswalds have a mailbox with their name on it if LHO was getting mail at a PO Box?
 

The only record I have found is the original application for P.O. Box 2915 in October, 1962 where Lee lists 3519 “Fairimore Av” as his home address. (I think he meant to write 3519 Fairmount – Gary Taylor’s address). There is no change of address card in Volume 20 of the Hearings and Exhibits

(20H176). https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1137

Was it never entered into evidence?

Is James Hosty lying?

Is he getting his info from somewhere else?

A Record from Mary's Database

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/marysdb.php?id=7651

Record:

POST OFFICE BOXES

Sources:

-----

Mary's
Comments:

LHO - P.O. Box 2915, Dallas, rented October 9, 1962, closed May 1963 (WC Vol 20, p. 176); LHO - P.O. Box 6225, Dallas, rented Nov 1, 1963 (WC Vol 22, pp. 185, 291);

Steve Thomas

I'll just add this:

In her HSCA testimony, Marina couldn't remember the first time she saw the rifle.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo4/jfk12/marinade.htm

Marina's HSCA testimony

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/hscamar1.htm

When do you first recall seeing Lee with a rifle in the United States?
Mrs. PORTER. I cannot pinpoint exact month, you know, date of any kind.

Mr. McDONALD. Where did you first see it?
Mrs. PORTER. I do not remember where or when, but I can say that Lee did have a rifle during life in the United States.

Mr. McDONALD. When you refer to the "closet," what apartment are you referring to? At what apartment are we talking about?
Mrs. PORTER. I do not recall any apartment, but maybe one in Dallas.
Mr. McDONALD. The one on Neely Street?
Mrs. PORTER. Neely Street; yes.

Mr. McDONALD. Did you ask him where he obtained this rifle?
Mrs. PORTER. No, I didn't.

Steve Thomas

5 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

She does not even recall when they moved to Neely?

And this is in February of 1964.

Jim,

I'd chalk it up to a hazy memory, but she said the same thing to two different federal agencies just two weeks apart.

Makes you go, hmmmm...

Steve Thomas

25 minutes ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Steve,

BTW, from which Joachim Joesten book was that excerpt from?

Also, the essay "The Georges of Neely Street" was written by Gayle Nix Jackson, granddaughter of Orville.

https://gaylenixjackson.com/jfk-assassination/3107/

Paul,

It's from his book, "Marina Oswald".

You can find an online copy here:

https://archive.org/details/MarinaOswaldByJoachimJoesten1967/page/n45

Gayle may have written "an" essay about the George's of Neely, but I think that was in 2014.

The essay I referenced was written in 2003.

Steve Thomas