Kirk Gallaway

uhhh... flat footed Fox commentators weren't ready Brett Baer's comment as to Hutchinson's " powerful testimony." No comment from Fox News yet about Fox news "being the news", and the various emails from Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham to Trump to call off the protestors..

Exactly Paul, it's already understood it's hearsay. It's really down to the credibility of the people who told the story! Of course, any alleged sleuth fool with any intuition can see that. It's going to be the words of slavish Trump sycophants, many of whom have skirted testifying or taking the 5th against a highly credited source whose only motive would be in the eyes of some misogynist's idea of woman repeatedly trying get even with men? Ben instinctively sides with men that are hiding or take the fifth. It's a "feeling " thing! Certainly having no practical experience with sorting out internet sources has never stopped Ben from opining on just about everything. But I'm glad Ben has decided to get his feet wet and actually experience part of the hearings, but it sounds like he tuned into Laura Ingraham's show, (who incidentally has made no mention on her show of her tweets to Trump during the riots, to stop the protestors), or something similar. 10 years from now, in Ben's eyes, nothing will have changed. He'll still claim contrary to all historical records that the omnipotent "deep state" FBI was behind the 1/6 Capitol riots and that they manufactured accounts that even a small % of the rioters there were carrying weapons. It will be another helpless lament that the "Deep State" got clean away with another misjustice that Ben and humanity were unable to stop, but of course, the payoff is, Ben will be cooler than everyone around him, for being the only one to realize it, and will endlessly chatter about it to increasingly deadening ears.

Right Andrew, let's see if any of these Trump losers can exhibit any courage and testify. But the plot thickens, Tony Ornado (Knock 3 Times?) is a well known Trump sycophant. He oversaw the Secret Service detail on 1/6 that tried to remove Pence from the capitol, but Pence refused. "The Pences went to a secure underground area to wait out the riot. At the White House, senior official Keith Kellogg reportedly discussed Pence with Tony Ornato, who "oversaw Secret Service movements." Ornato told Kellogg that Pence's security detail was planning to move him to Joint Base Andrews but Kellogg told Ornato to leave Pence where he was because Pence was determined to stay and finish the job." https://www.newsweek.com/mike-pence-refused-car-secret-service-capitol-riot-book-1610326

Wow, good stuff on these hearings! We now hear that Trump was made aware that some individuals were spotted with weapons including ar -15's, and did nothing.. Trump asked to pull the magnetometers to allow undetected access to the Capitol, saying "they mean me no harm." "I'm the f-cking President" Trump wanted to join the armed mob, and go to Capitol Hill and tried to grab the wheel to direct the car, and grabbed the driver by the shoulder, (some say throat?) and was rebuffed and they went back to the White House. ***** Accounted several past incidents of Trump throwing dishes and pulling tablecloths with lots of stuff on it. ******

Susan Collins also didn't convict Trump in the first impeachment trial because she said that she thinks Trump won't do it again, because "he's learned his lesson." But of course Jim , you were also an apologist for Trump in the trial quoting Jonathan Turley that it didn't "rise to the standard of impeachment." In light of all that's happened Jim. Do you still think your judgment was sound?.

Well of course it is. But that's apple and oranges. You and I would favor a living wage. There are problems with that, in that a living wage in California is much higher than it is in Nebraska, for example. But you might be surprised to know Paul, both you and I would like to see more effort in that regard. The hotel owner has said he's raised wages 15% above the California minimum wage of what $15.50 an hour, is it? I was addressing Ben's assertion that it's a loose labor situation. The truth is, it's very tight. I'm always tired of simple answers for complex questions. Given the new more nationalist oriented political immigration directions. The truth is, There are a lot of small businesses that are suffering. This isn't an easy question. Naturally there are questions of temporarily lifting immigration to sustain the economy in that once people get in, it will be hard to get them out. I'm not an expert in these matters, but at least I know it.

Exactly Matt, Garbage in, garbage out. Trying to have a fact based conversation where people are actually listening to each other is just futile. Ben:.and continues financing the $1.4 trillion (annual cost) global guard service for multinationals. Not much with figures, right Ben? Are you sure that wasn't a 2 year total? You are off by 100%! FACT:US military spending amounted to $801 billion in 2021, a drop of 1.4 per cent from 2020. (under Biden) Ben:A black immigrant transexual will do far better in a US with tight labor markets than with intentionally loose labor markets. Fact: That's total BS. As Matt says, It's the tightest labor market in 40 years! I talked to a hotel owner just today, who says it impossible to find workers. The same is true in the restaurants, and neither of these are corporate chains. This is affecting small business people. Never in recent memory has the U.S. needed workers so bad. Maybe in your old neighborhood in L.A. long ago Ben. But no white people now want these jobs.. Period! Ben:The globalists took great umbrage at the trade and immigration aspects of Trump's macroeconomic policies. And Trump turned out like a pussycat. And all of his hard core followers like you, drank that kool aid, and weren't sophisticated enough to fact check that, when all they really needed to do is ask themselves if their lives got any better. Biden is no great improvement, but he is the least globalist President we've had in 40 years! I can tell you Wall Street and Corporate America do not like Biden's policies in the least. They'd much prefer Trump, and even though they don't like Obama, they'd even prefer him. Ben:Does "restore the American reputation around the world" include endless trade deficits, and gigantic outlays on overseas military bases? 11 aircraft carrier "strike forces"? Maybe you should think about that, when you knee jerk demand a no fly zone in Ukraine when all the military leaders showed restraint, and saw it was clearly unnecessary. We can only be happy that the average a American citizen, not living in Thailand isn't clamoring with your zeal for action, and has also been exhibiting more restraint.

Of course. It's like other assumptions. Nobody know the content of the phone call from Adams to RP.But it's probably more likely that unless Ruth had been established to Adams to be Lee's wife, The professional thing for Adams to do would be to reveal the place of work and no other details over the phone, which will be disclosed to Lee upon phoning back. That's not hard and fast, it could also be RP had established a rapport mutual concern .for Lee with Adams, I suppose. So this is all really about a fumbling of RP under questioning, when given the facts, we can't know what was said or revealed in the phone call, and that it couldn't have been confused with other phone calls in Lee's search for a job? Looks like a deadlock to me. Is this worth pursuing? Is there something I don't know? Lawrence, involving your inquiries of Greg. Lawrence:Curious on your take of the infamous phone call between the Paines on the day of the assassination. At 1:00 pm on November 22. 1963, Michael Paine placed a collect call to his wife to discuss Oswald's involvement in the assassination. While the telephone operator remained on the line, Michael Paine told his wife that he “Felt sure Lee Harvey Oswald had killed the President but was not responsible.” He added, “We both know who is responsible.” (FBI report of Robert C. Lish, November 26, 1963, JFK Document No. 105-82555-1437) This call took place one hour before Oswald's arrest. Lawrence:Buried in volume 19 of the Warren Commission hearings and exhibits is report written by Dallas Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walthers on the day of the assassination stating that upon searching the Paine's garage, officers found “a set of metal file cabinets that appeared to be names and activities of Cuban Sympathizers.” (19H520). Of course, these metal file cabinets did not make it onto the Dallas Police inventory sheets and were never entered into evidence along with Lee Harvey Oswald's belongings. If they did not belong to Oswald, then they must have belonged to the Paines. Do you know why Ruth and Michael Paine might have had a “set of metal file cabinets” containing “the names and activities of Cuban sympathizers”? ***** Lawrence: where have you been? Greg has taken out threads dealing with both of these topics, as well as many others, much to the ire of the RP as witting/unwitting accomplice faction here. As for Buddy Walthers, you have only to look at this very page, "The allegation that Ruth Paine did surveillance on Cuban Sympathizers". That's directly linked to the question you pose of Greg concerning Buddy Walthers. Check it out.

Yeah, but why not "the why not of it?"

Yeah W., I always thought Ron Johnson could be a big handsome Ben "populist" candidate. But the funniest thing is when he's confronted by reporters about his staff trying to deliver an illegitimate, fake slate of electors to Pence on 1/6.. He acts like he's preoccupied talking over his cell phone,(1:48) when a reporter tells him his cell phone screen is out in view to the reporter. Thus, Johnson is faking talking to the wrong side of the phone! And then what a total BS excuse! You can't make this stuff up!

Paul, I have a memory , which i take no credit for of many things that people say that give me some clue of what they think. Maybe you're a person where things other people say just go in one ear and out the other. And that's ok, but after many years on on this forum you're saying that I'm aligned with Biden or HC over Bernie Sanders. Those are fighting words, dude! And you will be called on them. Nothing you've listed here qualifies to me as "deep state'. One thing , maybe on thing. Not to me. i think I do, or I'll try. Trump was moreover than anything else, an unknown quantity in 2016 to the 'elites" in your definition which I accept and the "corporate state" in mine. Hilary was not an enthusiastic choice at all, but represented the status quo, which as I've said to you a few days ago, to them is very desirable. You have only to look at the markets Paul.There was a sharp self off overnight when Trump won the electoral college, Only to have a sharp reversal when markets opened the next morning and it was realized, it's probably going to be a great thing with Trump, an outsider needing the support of a completely Republican lead congress. That is, both the House, Senate and the President are under the control of the pro business Republican party. It may be confusing to you, if you're adding in a bunch of other things you think are "deep State", but I'm just going hold you to your best definition I've heard, "The Elites." Yes, I'm saying it's not really hidden. If you're talking about the privilege that the wealthy and famous and their families enjoy, say to game the justice system, for example, or just general opportunity. I agree that has been going on since the world began. I don't think that's the deep state Peter Dale Scott could be talking, How in the world do you expect to do anything about that? and why isn't it business as usual? and being more global makes it harder to understand? . Why? It's another one of these statements like where you're just assuming we should buy into what you say, but you're giving no reason. The answer to both is most of the world does not benefit and in some cases the War is creating shortages and inflated prices and certain industries are gouging and shouldn't be allowed to. The arms industry is undoubtedly benefiting from the war in Ukraine. So what? Are you suggesting they started it? Or is it the work of a bloodthirsty little autocrat trying to salvage his place in Russian history before he dies. We don't have to go into that for the umpteenth time. Similarly if you're going to insist to me the pandemic was deliberately caused by people whose only goal was to secure profit, I'd think you're way out in left field. And that's a deep state mystery? No it's not. The U.S. elected Trump and Trump walked out on the Paris accords. what other answer do you have? That's been going on for 40 years. Reagan started that,(meme below) and it was exacerbated later by anti labor trade treaties. No they're not at all random and I tried to give you the reason only a couple of posts ago. Either the average person isn't aware his government works for the wealthy, but a lot of people do know and just feel powerless to do anything about it, and some people, the unkind would say are just"stupid", or the more temperate would say,";simply don't vote in their interests." These are not answers the typical conspiracy theorist wants to hear. Because it involves taking more responsibility for one's life and not passing it off on some totalitarian entity, that's so hopeless, to fight you may as well not even get up in the morning. Here's a question for everybody. If the Dems keep presenting a good case against Trump and his cronies, but doesn't yet get any conviction and the Republicans win both houses in November thereby ending the Congressional investigations, will it be due to the......... MSM?? or the......... "Deep State"? *******

W. Good old Tom Tomorrow! The first 4 frames are so Ben! Frame one--what's really going on?, a third rate burglary? Frame two---It was the FBI provocateurs! I saw it on the internet! Frame three---Portland was reduced to hellscape- Lets investigate! Frame four----Tucker's right! More border angst from Thailand! I love that Trump comb over in frame 6! Hey about that Texas secession? Will Fritz baby picture?. or is it Cruz? is it the work of the msm?

I've never said that. You are very mistaken, because you're not listening. Only a few days ago, I answered your post in the "Inevitable 56 year" thread where you've just posted. You were asking this question. Paul: Is divided government better for them( the corporate state or "elites") than an autocratic nationalist ruler? My response: Paraphrasing for brevity. Multi national corporate interests could go either way, autocratic or democratic. But for U.S. multi national corporate interests, the point of least resistance is to uphold supposedly democratic regimes giving people an illusion of control while buying the government and controlling their governments behind the scenes. Pretty kush job. This has worked all of our lives. They would say" If it isn't broke, why fix it? But most don't even ask the question! "If a Trump transition to autocracy could be done seamlessly, a lot more might be in favor of it. But to them, anything's pretty much the same that can keep the order, short of, say Bernie Sanders." Joe Biden and HC represent the corporate donor class of the Democrat Party. What I said here to you is that the corporate or elites of either party would prefer just about anybody, even an autocrat to Bernie Sanders. Does that sound like an endorsement of Biden and HC to you? Paul you're obviously incensed. The last 2 posts you've employed (ok unknowingly)what debaters call a "gish gallop" where you're throwing every unsolved mystery but the kitchen sink out and asking me to validate your concept of the deep state. I think I did a good job point by point to show you that the legislative examples you cited contrary to your belief, are not at all hidden. But i have no idea from your response if you were even listening or just reacting because you think I'm trying to take away your deep state from you. This is your thread, and you're the host, and as far as I'm concerned you have to be willing to listen to others. This is just discussion to me, but I do have a small beef with you Paul. A lot of times your terms seem ambiguous in context to me. And any time I've asked you to define your terms, which is just a basic in courteous discussion, you've never answered ,and move on, leading me to think you're above defining your terms. Ok , just sayin'

Paul: Back to earthbound U.S.A Lobbyists and their industry lawyers buy Congressional influence by contributions to campaigns. These are largely a matter of public record.All their lobbyists are registered and the their lawyers are also a matter of record. They're not really hiding their influence. Are the Republicans really hiding the fact that they're against increased spending toward Medicare?,or Social Security? or Pro Citizen's United? That's just public knowledge. Do they seem that concerned that the average person is going to ferret that out and expose them? Not really! I've just told you recently there is a revolutionary world corporate minimum tax being hammered nation by nation. The Republicans are against it- completely!. Are they ashamed? Not at all? What more proof do you need? You and I and the average person doesn't need to know all "the mechanisms" or all the "precise methods". Because the point is, they're not hiding it.. Paul: Does the average person realize that their elected government works for them more than for you? You mean "for the wealthy rather than for the people?" Some don't, I think most people do, but they feel powerless to do anything about it, or a third possibility is they look at 2 major parties views toward Medicare, toward Social Security, toward Citizen's United, toward a World minimum corporate tax that I've enumerated above and still spout, despite all the issues and evidence that the Democrats, are the "corporate party" and don't end voting in their own interests, because they're morons.

How do they exercise power Paul? What are you referring to?

Right Pat, and what I've been saying. There is no "deep state" in that there's nothing hidden. It's been going on, out in the open, and in full gear for all our lives. It's more appropriately called "business as usual". But not it's just America. Now the world has become more finite and a smaller and smaller % of people are controlling a greater and greater % of the worlds resources. And more people are becoming misplaced, marginalized, and suffering.

You know I was just curious. Does anybody here think the Paine's husband and wife handling of the assassination and executing their apparent job of incriminating Lee Harvey Oswald immediately after and the year following the assassination with their testimony to the Warren Commission, was maybe the inspiration for male female counterpart relationship in the TV series "Get Smart?" Hello Max, I see you're here. what do you think?

I'm not much of a hockey fan, but I do love the American sports. Of course in this continent, when are Canadians ever winning in hockey anymore? Being a proud Warrior fan. I think the 2017 Warrior with KD, was the greatest of all time. They were 16-1 in the playoffs. And in my mind, had the #2 and #3 best player in the world! But of course KD will never be happy, or secure. Even amidst his greatest years, he took out 5 twitter accounts to anonymously answer the riff raffer naysayers on twitter! What can you do?! heh heh Yes, Kerr is a great, world conscious, human being!

Oh my God, here's the 10,473rd reference to Trump and cronies for poor Ben! (Was that the number? , I lost count It's just like steady drops of rain. Will it ever stop? The 1/6 Committee now has e-mails between Eastman and Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas's wife, Ginnie Thomas. Is that why they postponed? I don't know Ben, it sounds like your show trial committee might be passing within 40 feet of you! Oh,I'm sorry another lost reference to the lead stories of the day. Always having your finger on the pulse, I see now you're actually going full on MSM (except of course for the lead story!) with the Texas Latin voter piece I saw on CNN, and I assume Fox too? heh heh https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/06/15/ginni-thomas-john-eastman-emails/

To be clear, Sandy, I've never heard you suggest that Ruth Paine planted evidence, and I've never thought from your comments that you thought that RP was involved in a plot to kill the President. But I think I understand for the first time, your perceptions from what you've said earlier. That you aren't accusatory of Ruth Paine, hold no malice to her position and suggest that she was coached that it was her patriotic duty to tow, shall we say an "agency" line? To avoid WW3? Correct me if I'm wrong. I found that interesting. So Sandy, you haven't noticed any malice or marked hostility toward Ruth Paine here?

No offense, but my experience here is that people with more and greater conspiracy theories DON'T have more fun! I just watched the Warriors take the best defensive team in the league, the Celtics and pester them to the point they could barely dribble! I used to be able jawbone some sports with Cliff here, and he was also good at calling out nonsense, and there's never been more. GO WARRIORS!

When we talk about repetition. How many times have you recommended that book? Since you're stating a goal to discuss this.. Nobody here will probably read that because you're repetitive sloganeering demonstrates, at least to me, you have no real in depth knowledge of trade. Besides with the advent of Trump, people were already aware of that Mao repetition technique you employ so you're probably destined to have your pleas permanently fall on deaf ears. But hey, it's worth a shot! Let's see your best shot! Take out your own non Tucker Carlson, non identity politics, non border angst thread and show us what you got on trade. You can quote from your book, since it was obviously such a game changer for you. . Yep ,I didn't think so.... Ben:Or, we can have discussion #12,147 on how awful Mr Big Bad Orange is. As for Trump, i didn't mention anything about him, but there are revelation coming out. He's very much in the news. And although Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, and Aaron Mate won't touch it. it looks like you're going to be hearing a lot about it and repeatedly enlightened about your previous misconceptions and the utter cluelessness, you at least had , when you first came here about Trump and 1/6 (and Brian Epps?), so what I can I say. Ben? The immediate future doesn't look bright!

But you have to understand Greg, your response while plausible, will be met with some skepticism, because it is rather weak. Typically, one would know where one's sister is employed. But a point made on the other hand, is that her sister's employment was never a secret. I have no figures on it, but the CIA is a huge organization, that I'd assume a relatively small number work in a covert capacity. Of course, then you have to ask. Why would CIA asset, RP risk exposure and lie about something that was public knowledge? Even if you think RP was lying about her family ties to the CIA, whatever side you're on, your arguments are weak.

Well put, Greg! A little bite in your writing style can't hurt, but I guess some would think I'd say that. "Buddy " Walthers has become an immortalized hero of the Jim Di cult here for years, now. I stand by what I said before. Anybody named "Buddy" in Dallas in 1963. I wouldn't believe a word they said! heh, heh heh! .

Paul said: Two parts of our body politic are at odds with each other. I think these differences are being purposefully magnified, because a divided nation cannot come together and enact any meaningful change that might threaten status quo power structures and attendant financial interests. The mechanisms for this magnification are numerous, some hidden some not. : Beneath all the noise there is a long standing battle of ideas, one progressive, one regressive. Human rights vs property rights, nationalism vs egalitarianism, many other dualities. This goes back thousands of years. Purposely magnified by who Paul? You've just said yourself these "Two parts of our body politic are at odds with each other" really represent basic human value arguments that have been going on for thousands of years. The deep state that I'm picking up from you, doesn't benefit from advancing this polarity. It wants to perpetuate the status quo, which is order. This is not orderly. The deep state does not benefit from the current strife in the U.S. Let me give you a real example about the real myths your concept of the Deep State is in fact perpetuating. A good example is an everyday guy, like Ben, or others who are very susceptible to all the culture warrior issues. The railing about identity politics, the Mexicans at the border, fear of foreigners, maybe blacks. These are issues that those in power cynically use to divide the oppressed and turn them against each other. . Historically the elites can benefit greatly and are more secure in autocratic regimes. But you're right to assert that the U.S, is hardly fertile ground for a monolithic ideological Chinese takeover. That's some off the wall premonition of the crazy right. Multi national corporate interests could go either way, autocratic or democratic. But similarly to the U.S. not being fertile ground for a Chinese ideological makeover.For the multi national corporate interests, the point of least resistance is to uphold supposedly democratic regimes giving people an illusion of control while buying the government and controlling their governments behind the scenes. Pretty kush job. This has worked all of our lives. They would say" If it isn't broke, why fix it? But most don't even ask the question! If a Trump transition to autocracy could be done seamlessly, a lot more might be in favor of it. But to them, anything's pretty much the same that can keep the order, short of, say Bernie Sanders. Paul: Is divided government better for them than an autocratic nationalist ruler? I'm not sure what you mean when you use the term" divided government". I assume you're not talking about legislative gridlock because that's a no brainer. The power structure wants a legislatively divided government, or no change because again they want the status quo which again, has worked very well for them. ***** Ben:Today there is endless whining about "tight labor markets." Endless whining? Yeah, endless whining for the top 1%! Tight labor markets drive up wages. Whose side are you on? "Please don't dominate rap Jack, if you've got nothing new to say." J.G. In this case I'm sure it will be a U.S. cultural reference never heard before. Focus Ben, I'm not at all addressing that . Is there any topic you won't segue away from to tell us your outrage about foreign trade for now the 142nd time? heh heh