Joe Bauer

B.C. I watched Jack Ruby shoot Oswald on live national TV. It was a Sunday morning 11,24,1963. Fairly early that morning as we here in California are two hours behind Texas time. I was 12 years old. I had been glued to our super old and grainy black and white TV that my brother and I got to put in our bedroom after our cheap step father finally broke down and bought a new color TV. I had that TV on since being sent home from 7th grade classes at noon California time on 11,22,1963. I was mesmerized by the whole event and there was constant national TV coverage of it, unlike anything I had ever seen before. Everyone was more than shocked by JFK's slaughter on an open street in Dallas in broad daylight. It was all anyone was talking about. I knew all the general information that had been broadcast since Friday afternoon. Kennedy shot in the head. He was dead. A suspect named Lee Harvey Oswald picked up within hours of the shooting. Who the heck was this guy Oswald? He looked so small, slight, not crazed or threatening looking. The seemingly quite extensive information coming out about Oswald just in the first 48 hours clearly made him seem like a scary commie. I also clearly remember hearing and reading news reports of unprecedented numbers of death threats against Oswald coming in by the tens of thousands. Because of this death threat reality, I was really shocked at how the Dallas PD had been bringing Oswald out to the press crowd so openly and often. Friday afternoon, Friday evening, Sunday morning. Shouldn't this guy have been heavily sequestered and protected in an unprecedented way considering thousands if not millions of people wanting his head? I was pretty precocious politically for a 12 year old. I read a lot in the papers and JFK and Jackie Kennedy were really popular at that time and seriously inspiring. The magazine world loved them and they seemed to be constantly on the front pages. They were bigger than Hollywood! JFK's assassination was not just disturbing in the brutal murderous loss of a president, but a young, attractive and incredibly dynamic one who was truly, truly inspiring to most of us in the baby boom generation. The whole event was hard to believe as a reality. It begged a million questions and suspicions. I've related my thoughts and feelings about watching the Oswald killing in the Dallas PD parking basement live that Sunday morning several times here on the forum over the years. I believe it's relevant sharing because it surely reflects what tens of millions of Americans also felt watching a shocking, history changing murder happen right in front of their eyes live on national TV. And such an improbable one considering the foreknowledge of the unprecedent level of threats against Lee Harvey Oswald, and the fact that it happened right inside the Dallas Police Department building! I have a very good memory. I clearly remember my thoughts while watching Oswald being brought around a corner in back of the corridor leading to the parking garage and the packed press crowd waiting there. The first thought I had, seriously, was how openly exposed Oswald was. Just two escorts at his side. Oswald practically even a little in front of these two guards as they walked. I honestly thought Oswald would have a cordon of officers all around him at all times for his own safety. Howdy Doody had more physical protection in his public appearances. I had an immediate bad gut feeling about Oswald's openness. Then, as Oswald was fairly close to the press crowd you see this stocky, heavy set, dark suited man burst out from the front of the press line and get one deathly location gun shot into Oswald's gut. At that "second" I unconsciously leaped off my bed and started shouting..."NO WAY! NO WAY!" over and over. After some time of thought and recollection ( again, even as a 12 year old ) I sensed that this event was just "too" improbable. Too improbable knowing that Oswald was one of the most threatened criminal suspects in our nation's entire 187 year long history. So threatened, I still can't believe any police force anywhere would allow anyone ( press included ) to get so physically close to Oswald and so often. From the second of even minimally organized crime associated Jack Ruby whacking Oswald to this day I have felt the JFK event was a conspiratorial action. Especially Ruby's whacking of Oswald. Shouldn't an ambulance have been at the ready during any transfer of Oswald out of the Dallas Police Department building, considering the real threat just outside with hundreds of onlookers, some shouting to lynch the commie bastard that killed our President? And why let the public even know the general time frame of the broad daylight move? That public announcement was beyond negligence imo. It was so illogical in the process of Oswald's security, it was crazy and shouted conspiracy. Ruby's improbable access into that DPD basement right at that time ( he had been stalking Oswald since Friday night ) and Oswald's laughable openness to him was the single most important event that triggered my life long belief that their were others involved in both JFK's and Oswald's killings. And when the Warren Commission simply chose to believe disturbed Jack Ruby over sane, educated, honest and respected journalist Seth Kantor regards Kantor stating he not only ran into Jack Ruby at Parkland hospital as Kennedy was treated there but talked to him as well. I knew that the WC investigation was a dishonest one. And Kantor's well documented public record book "Who Was Jack Ruby" showed a much more mob connected Ruby than the WC would even consider. As well as Ruby's occasional actions as an FBI informant. Several of Ruby's phone calls in the last month before 11,22,1963 were to heavy hit man characters in the Chicago and Detroit mobs. And Ruby's mentor closeness to Louis McWillie ( who was very closely associated to Santos Trafficante in the Cuban Casino business ) shows a stronger tie to big shots in the mob than the WC wanted to hear or acknowledge. Heck, Ruby himself was sent right to the Cuban jail to personally give a message to the big boss himself...Santos Trafficante! Much more to Ruby than a dingy strip joint owner who's biggest cursing beefs were with young stripper women who felt underpaid most of the time.

That's my guess too BC. With a little help from friends in the Dallas PD.

Never before have we seen a verified high ranking official from the Pentagon ( Lue Elizondo ) be given instant and broad exposure access to the national media to suggest the things he is saying. That the UFO phenomena is real. And with no official denial by the military in response. It almost seems as though his sudden emergence into the highest levels of media coverage ( national TV ) and his claims of alien technology is a kind of planned set up. Same with the Naval Aviation officer who has been on so many national TV venues to narrate his story of tracking the Tick Tac UFO's and stating they performed aerial maneuvers impossible by our known science and invention. What the jet fighter pilot has discussed is clearly top secret matters. Yet, he is being allowed to share this to a national audience, without official reprisal and denial? I don't think so. Except for the beginning stages of disclosure imo. I don't recall ever seeing such an allowed break out of UFO reality claiming by verified officials in our highest levels of media like what we are seeing with Elizondo, the Navy pilot and even government elected officials such as Marco Rubio chiming in about the subject but not in a dismissive, downplaying way. Don't forget Arizona Governor Fife Symington ( former Air Force officer ) coming out years after the Phoenix lights event and admitting that he was ordered to make a farce out of the affair, which he did at the time. His true feelings were that the people of Phoenix had truly witnessed a UFO event. Doug Caddy has been right about foretelling of major events happening when they did. This global pandemic for one. Recalling what Richard Nixon had predicted 50 years ago about world crisis events. Maybe former Canadian Defense minister Paul Hellyer has been right all along? All the people who have preached the alien operated UFO phenomena is a form of mental illness in it's proponents minds? I am sure they will hide from being confronted by any inquiries to explain their false claims if this alien UFO story turns out to be true. This would be a statement that the debunkers are the ones who have chosen to live in a world of dillusion. Not the other way around? "If the average person knew half of what is really going on in the world, they would go into their backyard and shoot themselves." Supposed quote by a person in high security shared 6th hand to me once.

Did she really say this? And on National TV?

What an incredibly thought provoking thread this is.

The exploding out skull bone flap over JFK's right ear is clearly seen in several close up video pics. JFK fell left and down into Jackie's lap immediately after. Jackie had to have seen this massive skull flap separation. Of course she would have tried to put it back in place. Have you seen the Xrays of JFK's skull from Bethesda? My Gad! It is "obliterated" from back to front. Fractured everywhere. Splintered about. In my viewing of the JFK head shot in slow motion and close up...I clearly see the top of JFK's skull take on a grotesque lifting expansion. His skull was so instantly and thoroughly blown apart and out you wonder if the bullet type was an explosion on impact one. I ask hunters here...have you seen deer head shots that obliterated their skulls as much as JFK's was with one shot, especially one of a Carcano bullet caliber?

$75,000 dollars in 1963 is equivalent to probably $700,000 in today's dollar value. And what in Sam Hill reason should we have to give Zapruder's children $16, 000,000 of our tax dollars for in any regards to that film? When Zapruder sold the rights to it for $75,000 in 1963...how can his survivors claim they are due another 16 MILLION for a film they don't even own the rights to? Wow, what a massive shady windfall with our tax dollars that payout was. It doesn't make legal and/or financial sense to me.

How much was Zapruder paid for his film right after the assassination? Wasn't it between 100 and $200 thousand dollars? Equivalent to well over $1,000,000 + in today's dollars? Then in the last ten years, didn't the survivors of Zapruder make another killing financially from his film? Like over 10 million dollars? Marie Tippit was sent a small fortune at that time also. Again, over $1,000,000 in today's dollars? And Marina Oswald was sent a huge sum right after the assassination as well. An interesting side story to the event imo. Poor Rose Cherami got nothing.

My wife told me that she was given the binder by a fellow who started a "collectible" gift shop on the main business/tourist street ( Alvarado ) in downtown Monterey, many years ago. This guy was a collector and it was fun to look at the interesting items he had in his store. Years of collecting. My wife used to frequent the shop. He had political buttons and she is a collector. The shop only made it about a year before closing up. Not long before this fellow closed up, he engaged my shopping wife in national political campaign conversation which my wife is very interested in. At some point he asked her if he could give her something. I assume it was kind of an appreciation gift to her for her shopping loyalty and friendly manner? It was this binder. The shop owner told my wife that he was a volunteer on RFK's California primary campaign and that he was inside the ballroom of the Ambassador hotel in Los Angeles during the shooting of RFK there. He was manning a campaign brochure table there. Amidst the chaos and grief and when everyone started to leave after RFK was taken to the hospital, he grabbed what he could of the campaign material left on the table. Eventually ( many years later ) he put many of these into binders. The one he gave my wife is one. She didn't recall whether this fellow said he had more than one though. That is the story as to how my wife obtained the RFK California primary campaign binder with material present at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles the night of RFK's shooting there.

HA!

"So many conflicting accounts." Starkly differing accounts. The brain especially. Up close within 1, 2 and 3 feet and even inches for hours Navy Corpsmen Paul O'Conner and James C. Jenkins had starkly differing accounts. O'Conner says JFK's brain was literally gone except for macerated pieces ( before it was reportedly removed by Humes ) yet fellow corpsman James Jenkins said he "was" handed a brain. One that was "missing slightly less than a third of it's mass." No one can quite agree on the actual removal of JFK's brain. O'Conner ( who had personally performed many of these brain removing skull cutting procedures ) stated the skull cutting normally performed to do this wasn't done as there was no brain to be removed. Jenkin's said he noticed cuts to the brain stem that couldn't be made in the way he was used to seeing. Commander Humes said JFK's brain literally "fell into my hands." Humes never mentioned the brain being weighed in his autopsy notes. When asked why...he said simply..."I don't know."? According to the final official report, JFK's brain weight was listed at 1400 grams. Heavier than normal men's brain weight...intact! More than one Parkland doctor up close to JFK's head during his initial ER room treatment stated much of JFK's brain matter was missing in the massive blowout hole in the upper back right side of his skull. Also that brain matter was still oozing out of this hole while JFK was lying prone on the exam table. One doctor said Jackie showed him a chunk of JFK's brain as she held it in her hand. JFK's brain "matter" (not just blood and fluid spray) hit the two motorcycle officers directly behind the limo when JFK was hit in the head. Brain "matter" was found all around the inside of the limo and even on the seat where JFK was sitting according to at least one SS agent who attempted to clean the seat of blood. So, in the end, with all the brain matter being blown out and oozing out, we have a brain weighing 1400 grams listed as JFK's in the final Bethesda autopsy record? And even that brain goes missing just days or weeks after the autopsy? Please! Just the extremely conflicting eye-witness testimony regards JFK brain condition, removal, study, disappearance and final official record aspect of the autopsy "alone" from everyone present is enough to blow the entire affair into the realm of laughably absurd suspicion and conspiracy suggesting.

Thank you Ron. I've had heart problems for years. With this event they found a main artery 80% blocked. Put in a stent. I don't know who was hotter...Angie Dickinson...or Carol Channing back then? I had a thing for Channing.

I found a link that shows the advertisement "ticket" flyer to a RFK speaking event in L.A. May, 1968. There are two of these in the binder. Notice the celebrities attending? Angie Dickinson, Carol Channing, Gene Kelly, Henry Mancini, Sonny & Cher, Shirley McClain, Andy Williams, Gene Barry, Jerry Lewis, Alan King, Mahalia Jackson, Rosey Grier, etc.? Robert F. Kennedy Original 1968 S.R.O. Rally Flyer .

Thank you Paul for your thoughtful message. I edited out my medical situation comment. I sometimes get too casual and off topic with such things and I realize such personal sharing isn't what the forum is about. Back story? I will have to ask my wife when she returns from her family visit. I "think" she may have found this years ago during one of her "thrift shop" adventures. Not sure about that though. There's other political items in the binder that were obviously not at the Ambassador hotel June 6th, 1968. A brochure describing Eugene McCarthy's policy positions. Two or three advertisement flyers for a rally talk RFK was giving in L.A. two days before the tragedy at the Ambassador? On this are the names of many Hollywood stars who will be in attendance. Shirley McClain of course. Many others. Ed Asner maybe? Later this morning I'll list the others. I don't know how to take pictures and post them on the forum.

While downsizing I came across a white plastic binder that apparently my wife had acquired years ago through some quirky means I assume. She's visiting relatives and I haven't asked her about it. She may have mentioned having this years ago before I got into the JFK area again when I retired. I had completely forgot about it until I found it three days ago. On the cover are these typed labels: Top half - "Materials from the Presidential Primary Campaign of Robert F. Kennedy" Bottom half - "Removed from a campaign table at the Ambassador Hotel on June 5th, 1968, the site and date of Kennedy's assassination." Upon opening there are maybe 20 to 30 items such as flyers, bumper sticker type banners. All RFK related. I believe these were probably available at the hotel that evening. There are also two appreciation letters sent to RFK supporters in California signed by RFK. >>>> CORRECTION - THEY ARE NOT SIGNED <<<< There are other RFK and even JFK campaign flyers and other later political campaign items as well, such as a "George Wallace" campaign bumper sticker type decal. How in the world my wife came across this binder of RFK political items is a fascinating mystery to me. I can't wait for her to return home so I can ask her about it. Looking through the items taken from the Los Angeles Ambassador Hotel that tragic June evening in 1968 brings the event back in a much more real way. Just thought I'd mention this interesting find. Were multiple binders like this RFK one made? Maybe a money making deal?

While downsizing, I came across a white plastic binder that apparently my wife had acquired years ago through some quirky means I assume. She's visiting relatives and I haven't asked her about it. She may have mentioned having this years ago before I got into the JFK area again when I retired. I had completely forgot about it until I found it three days ago. On the cover is a glued small paper sheet with this typed title and description: Items taken from the Ambassador Hotel the night RFK was shot there ... !!! Upon opening there are maybe 20 to 30 items such as flyers, bumper sticker type banners. All RFK related. I believe these were probably available at the hotel that evening. There are also two appreciation letters sent to RFK supporters in California signed by RFK. The signatures look real but who knows? I looked on Ebay and these letters look just like other "real" ones sent to other supporters of RFK. There are other RFK and even JFK campaign flyers and items as well. There's even a "George Wallace" campaign bumper sticker type decal. How in the world my wife came across this binder of RFK political items is a fascinating mystery to me. I can't wait for her to return home so I can ask her about it. Looking through the items taken from the Los Angeles Ambassador Hotel that tragic June evening in 1968 brings the event back in a much more real way. Just thought I'd mention this interesting find.

That video is simply truth revealing mind blowing.

Agree. American newspapers, even the largest circulation ones, have been used as false info vehicles forever. Remember Judith Miller of the New York Times? T.V. and newspaper contributor Robert Novak was a classic dis-info agent. Bugliosi's JFK book is for non-thinkers. 1,000's of selectively chosen document numbers and statements simply copied and pasted word for word and put into a cynically charged titled binder. The only creative content by Bugliosi was his 100 different ways of calling JFK conspiracy believers loons, nuts and crackpots. What normal person could read even 20 of the 2,000 pages of Bugliosi's epic one sided minutiae filled masterpiece without going into a mind numbing, pre-hypnotic trance or simply falling asleep? Ah, but a great and easy ( let underlings do all the file finding word ) gimmick on the always big money hunting VB's part to get a million dollar book advance windfall imo. Also, regards the "Silver Slipper / Jack Ruby back of an ad flyer" note story: When did Margaret Hoover's brother Robert Steele report this to the FBI? Just a few days after 11,22,1963? How could anyone have known anything about the Silver Slipper and Jack Ruby and thought this important enough to report to the authorities so soon after 11,22,1963 when so little had been reported about it nationally at that time? Heck, 99.999 % of Americans didn't know anything except the most broad and general TV and newspaper news coverage of the event and the main characters involved until months and even years later.

Just 24 hours after JFK ( the President of the United States ) was brutally gunned down in broad daylight and the entire nation was in once in a lifetime concerned, worried and even sickened shock, Hoover's and Tolson's light hearted, highly publicly visible race track get away at that specific time was about the most cold blooded, lack of feeling and disrespectful acts one could imagine from one of our highest ( top 5 ) national figures. Especially our #1 crime fighting one. This Hoover/Tolson play date wasn't just incredibly ill-timed and disrespectfully inappropriate, it also was a blatant expression of Hoover's true personal feelings toward JFK and RFK - who cares! If there was anyone that 200 million Americans thought would be 24 hour busy in the immediate hours and days after their president was gunned down trying to investigate this greatest importance nation shocking and unsettling crime in our history ( equivalent to Lincoln's assassination in 1865 ) it would be our #1 crime fighting head of the FBI. What more graphic way could Hoover show his contempt for JFK ( and RFK ) than to go off on a fun gambling adventure at a race track less than 24 hours after JFK's obliteration? Probably shouting and cheering on his horses in the stretch, sharing hot dogs, beer ( or soda pop? ) and racing form hunches with his boyfriend ... and maybe a "well connected" tipster as well?

Am I missing something here in this aerial shot of Main Street/Elm Street merging onto Stemmons? Or is that not the Stemmons Freeway at all? If it was, it looks as if JFK's motorcade had just kept going straight on Main and through the middle of Dealey Plaza ( instead of dog legging to the right and through the Western side of Dealey ) about 150 yards after going under the overpass Main Street and Elm Street both merge onto the same highway - correct? And wouldn't this one highway take them to the Trade Mart? Or, was this aerial view photo taken years before 1963? When the Trade Mart wasn't even built yet? Or a new freeway built to get to it? I'm confused. In this photo above it sure looks to me like Elm Street took you to the same highway Main Street did. If so, there was no need for the snipers lair dog leg turn into Dealey. Yes? Also, if I am an experienced presidential motorcade security planner and doing a pre-planning drive through of the route to see potential risk problems, I would surely notice the against protocol two 90 degree turns onto Houston and Elm. How this would require slowing of speed combined with the wide open exposure to the upper floors of the Texas School Book Depository building ( which just happened to be owned by super wealthy oil man, right wing fanatic and rabid JFK hater D.H. Byrd ) and most importantly ... the incredibly obvious pergola wall, heavy low tree canopy and long, dark shadow picket fence that ran for hundreds of yards right above JFK's limo and would be the perfect camouflage hiding place for a sniper. Complete with a wide open, no crowd escape area of the parking lot and rail yards. I just know I would have spotted this risk potential. And I would have assigned two or three or more officers directly behind the top part of the grassy knoll as JFK passed by underneath. Ah, but who am I to think that little old Jr. High school boy me could ever come up with anything close to the security experience and brain work of those in charge of JFK's motorcade route security?

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Patriots for Gaetz!

Yes, several here have seen and accessed that thread many times. It has a lot of information related to Lansdale through some very high level acquaintances.

Curious what Lansdale thought of General Edwin Walker...if anything. And Robert Kennedy's action to commit Walker to a nut ward over Walker's inciting ringleader actions at Ole Miss at Oxford? Also, whether Dallas Mayor Earl Cabell might have known Lansdale through his brother Charles ( Dulles's right hand man?) well enough to have personally met him? And how about the most extreme right wing groups centered in Dallas at the time ( JBS, etc. ) and their world's most wealthy men funders like H.L. Hunt?

Wow!