Joe Bauer

The only evidence that would be given any credibility at all regards William Shelley having anything nefarious to do with Oswald would be a scientifically proven facial recognition finding that the man shown standing behind Oswald during one of his Fair Play for Cuba flyer passing events in New Orleans just four months before 11,22,1963 was in fact ...Bill Shelley. I wonder though, whether any top facial analysis company who found the New Orleans/Oswald photo matched Shelley, might be pressured to suppress their findings.

David Talbot's speech posted above is as profound as ever. Many years ago David Talbot was being interviewed on the "Coast To Coast AM" national talk radio show by host Ian Punnett. Talbot's book "Brothers" had just been published and Punnett was centering his show discussion around the book. I wanted to share some comments about Talbot's book, but I could never break through the telephone call-in part of the show. So, I went ahead and sent an e-mail instead. 5 minutes later ( to my great surprise ) Punnett not only pulled up my e-mail, but read it out loud in its entirety to Talbot and his listening audience. Talbot actually complimented what I shared in my e-mail! Basically, I was reinforcing Talbot's take on the reality that our society during JFK times was under the influence of corrupted groups and individuals so much more than the average citizen could even imagine. Starting with those mentioned in Eisenhower's MIC warning speech, but even more expansively such as our intelligence branches, organized crime, compromised media, segregationists, wealthy oil men and the hyper-extreme far right political propaganda groups they funded such as the JBS, Minute Men, you name it. All hating of JFK to worst demise wishing degrees. My most often stated summary claim was that "corruption" was so widespread in and influencing of our society ( both before, during and after the JFKA ) that in my opinion, corruption was one of our top three legacies of our society and nation the last half of the twentieth century. We were simply a very corrupt country in too many ways from the bottom to the top. Remember this simple yet graphic demonstrable example of this truth: Our President Nixon's "entire top level" staff were found to have committed constitutional violating crimes. 25 of them served time in prison for those crimes! Haldeman, Erlichman, John Mitchell and on and on. And even throw in the super corrupted VP Spiro Agnew, whose placement in that position was a pay-off to the Mafia. If that massive corruption exposing of an entire presidential staff didn't rock your sense of the reality of how bad things were in that realm...what would? Nixon and Hoover buddy Gerald Ford made sure that the sacred American constitution tenant of "no man shall be above the law" was violated to the highest degree with the pardon of the criminal gang ringleader himself...Richard "Tricky Dick" Nixon. JFK, RFK and MLK were all trying to do what they thought was right, However, tragically, they were trying to do this at a time when America was more corrupt than not in the highest levels of government including military, intelligence, segregationist, organized crime, Cuban expatriate hate and revenge and super wealthy self-interests priority promoting power. In this caldron of white hot JFK hating and competing for power reality all three of these men didn't stand a chance. I believe even they didn't truly grasp the enormous power all these corrupt groups possessed. Especially when combined and with a mutual interest "Devils Pact" goal of getting rid of their most threatening adversaries. Tragically, this hellish group turned out to be an unstoppable force.

14:38 NOW PLAYING JFK Assassination 50th Anniversary: Interview with

Just watched the 1974 film "The Odessa File." Adapted from the novel of the same name written by Frederick Forsyth. I had forgotten the film begins in Germany on the day JFK was shot in Dallas, Texas, U.S.A. There are many dialogue references to JFK's assassination in that beginning segment. Also, reference is made to a supposed attack plan upon Israel by Nasser that included sending 400 missiles ladened with poisonous gas. Just a curious JFKA aside about the film. And remember it was made only 10 years after 11,22,1963.

I'm sure many other researchers have done comprehensive studies of the combined timelines stated by almost all the witnesses who saw Oswald directly from just before 12:pm that day until after the shooting. I have just read about 6 of those accounts via the JFK Witness Page internet site which shows their Warren Commission testimony and affidavits taken by others like the Dallas Police, the FBI, etc. There are several timeline contradictions in the Oswald sighting accounts. However, there are more timelines that match. When Shelley and Arce took the elevator down from the 6th floor down to the second floor to have lunch, they gave a general timeline of 5 minutes before 12:pm. Danny Arce said they encountered Oswald who told them to go on. Oswald was on the 6th or 5th floor. Arce wasn't sure about the exact floor. Shelley said he went to his office to eat his lunch and spent 10 minutes there. He then went down to the first floor to the lobby and then eventually went out the front door to the outside steps to watch JFK drive by. Shelley said he saw Oswald using the first floor lobby wall mounted telephone when he ( Shelley) was there. So, this was around 10 to 15 minutes after 12:pm? Before I state all the other sightings of Oswald from 11:55 am to 12:10 or 12:15 in the lobby, let me just propose what a remarkable feat it must have been for Oswald to be running back and forth from the 6th floor to the first floor lobby while setting up his perch to do JFK at 12:30 pm. And don't forget famous news journalist Robert MacNeil who stated Oswald ( possibly Oswald ) directed him to a first floor phone just minutes after the shooting.

Yes. I would imagine this to be true MF. What our highest level government agencies have in this technology is probably not available to the general public. Same with police agencies. There are also human "gait" identification programs that are so advanced now these too are used by many governments in surveillance. Imagine a satellite 50 miles high in the sky that can optically zoom down to observe one individual person as if they are 5 feet away and observing their gait, accurately identifying them from this? It is truly a brave new world we live in. I wonder if our government ( using the most advanced facial recognition technology they have access to ) did a study and actually identified some of the facial photos in Dealey Plaza as being the nefarious characters mentioned, would they keep those findings secret?

If this facial recognition tech isn't that reliable, why then has our own government and many others spent billions subsidizing it's development and actually using it in some of the most sensitive areas of surveillance security? Because of that kind of huge funding expenditure and utilization effort I assume the process is more reliable than the average person knows. These companies are contracted to some of our highest security agencies. 99.97% identification reliability is pretty damn impressive.

For decades many people in the JFKA research community have off-and-on discussed and debated an aspect to the case that in my opinion has been inadequately examined as well as downplayed and even ignored. And that is the possible presence of high-level covert operatives being present in Dealey Plaza during the shooting of JFK. Whenever this subject is brought up, it has almost always been dismissed with the proposition that every photo in question has been "proven" to not be the nefarious characters some state they may be. Or, "not proven" to be such. Yet, I can hardly recall who the skeptics used as their primary source of identification analysis. Some government agency? The FBI? Were these specific photos truly analyzed using the most advanced methods? If just "one" of the most well known and debated photos turns out to be one of these covert characters, it could be one of the most compelling bomb shell pieces of evidence to seriously challenge or even change the entire narrative regards the Oswald / Lone Gunman finding of the Warren Commission. I have stated for years that a new study of the photos by a reputable Facial Recognition technology company ( or several ) would finally put this aspect of the investigation in it's proper place of importance. Yet, the dynamic of funding is always the subject killer. How frustrating. Off and on for years I have looked and looked at the most well known Dealey Plaza nefarious character photos. There are 3 or 4 that look to me to be so closely resembling of these characters I believe that they are them. I just had a thought today that I've never contributed anything important to the JFKA truth mission that made a difference in the realm of moving the truth story any farther than when I first started posting here and elsewhere years ago. I seriously believe that a new round of facial recognition analysis studies of perhaps 8 photos of suspicious characters is a worthy endeavor in that regards. And if the final consensus of such studies conclude with a 99.97 accuracy determination either way, well, at least we JFKA truth seekers can feel we did our committed best adequately looking into this particular aspect of the case. Let us imagine if any of the Facial Recognition Tech companies find even just "one" of the characters a match? Rip Robertson, William Shelley with Oswald in New Orleans in August of 1963, Joseph Milteer, Gerry Patrick Hemming, maybe even David Morales and E. Howard Hunt? Could there also be a highest tech study of the three tramp's suited man who many believe may have been General Ed Lansdale? My two strongest suspicion pics are Rip Robertson and William Shelley in New Orleans. I am contemplating posting in other venues asking if any outside persons who have always felt a concerned interest in the JFKA truth mission, may be willing to commit the funds it would take to give a definitive scientific analysis effort like this a go. I'm getting up there in age. This project would certainly be my "last hurrah."

There are at least ten reputable "Facial Recognition" tech companies who will perform test scans for a fee. Looks like the fees start at around $1,000 for one? If I get lucky and come across extra funds like that ( donations to our forum come first ) I will try to get one of these companies to compare the known and available pictures of William Shelley to the background man in the Lee Harvey Oswald flyer photo taken in New Orleans in August of 1963. Heck, if I get lucky enough with funds, I'd also like them to compare these other look-alike photos of men in Dealey Plaza on 11,22,1963. These would include Rip Robertson, Joseph Milteer, Gerry Patrick Hemming, David Morales, E. Howard Hunt, etal. Hard to believe some wealthier people who are avid JFKA truth seekers haven't done this already. I would also ask them if they know whether there is anatomical "body" scan Identification technology to check the suspected General Lansdale 3 tramp photo.

In ideal conditions, facial recognition systems can have near-perfect accuracy. Verification algorithms used to match subjects to clear reference images (like a passport photo or mugshot) can achieve accuracy scores as high as 99.97% on standard assessments like NIST’s Facial Recognition Vendor Test (FRVT). How Accurate are Facial Re… csis.org

It does look a bit odd for the dark suit man to rock sideways and left at the exact same time the tall lanky tan jacket man turns and walks by him. In so doing he actually blocks the tan jacket man's pathway enough they brush each other. On the other hand, the dark suit wearing fellow looks to me like a teenage boy. Maybe 15 or 16 years of age. Too young to be part of some nefarious team imo.

Just doing some cursory searching of said William Shelley. Hardly anything pops up. Can a forum member or two here enlighten me to some more substantial info on him? Mary Ferrell perhaps?

Imagine with new facial recognition technology if we could "prove" the person behind Oswald in the photo of Oswald during his New Orleans leaflet passing was truly Bill Shelley? It is now possible to prove such a match. What then? !!! Could Shelley be the missing Oswald minder link? Imagine how the entire Oswald as the lone gunman story would unravel. Talk about a history changing bomb shell! If that is provenly Shelley with Oswald in New Orleans just 4 months before 11,22,1963, hang on to your JFKA truth reality seeking hats folks. A monster category 5 hurricane force storm of revision investigation and reporting will hit us all with 150 to 200 miles per hour wind gusts. Reading Shelley's short interview testimony by the Warren Commission, Shelley recounts a story of a fellow TXSBD employee bringing in two rifles to show off to him and other office staff. Roy Truly included. This gun "show and tell" event occurred just days before 11.22,1963. Shelley recounted that in all of his 18 years employed at the Depository he never once recalled such an action. Shelley said one of the rifles was of 22 caliber. The second one was a modified "German Mauser!" A Mauser? Isn't that what Dallas Sheriff constable gun buff Seymour Weitzman first identified as the gun found on the 6th floor on the TXSBD one half hour after the shooting?

That above and front of the ear blown out skull bone flap is enormous!

Exactly.

MF... be serious. Do you feel the Shelley look-a-like man in the Oswald picture is "the same" Shelley we see in Dealey Plaza? Anyone else here on the forum believe the same? I sure do.

It's true NF. Journalist Seth Kantor investigated Jack Ruby's history using the FORA act and discovered Ruby's activities in that area. He wrote about such in his book "Who Was Jack Ruby?"

I've always found this interview to be clearly revealing of the true relationship between Ruby and Dallas law enforcement...as well as DA Wade's true more intimate knowledge of and occasional interactions with Jack Ruby and his Carousel strip joint. Hamilton/Rich and her story is one of those inconvenient truth bomb shell revelation testimonies that the investigative powers to be barely covered and purposely let alone afterwords.

MF: "He's one of those people who looks 50 years old all their life." Ha ! Humorous yet sometimes true observation MF. I totally agree. Shelley's extremely bony facial structure is so uniquely different than most people ( check out pictures of a late age English actor Peter Cushing and Nikola Tesla ) that when you see someone with a matching one it's quite a bit easier to believe it could be the same person with rational logic. And when you see their facial photos side-by-side and with a matching hair style, color and cut, matching suit, shirt and tie style and fit, same ears, same pale facial skin tone to boot...Viola! And remember, the New Orleans Oswald leaflet passing photo with the Shelley look-a-like man in the group was taken just 4 months before 11,22,1963. The two different location facial photos show both men looking the same age. 39 years old? 38? And here we go again with another improbably intriguing Oswald connected coincidence. Shelley just happens to be Oswald's immediate supervisor at the TXSBD? Shelley was questioned by the Warren Commission. You really should read his testimony. It wasn't long. And it was incredibly narrow in it's scope of questioning. Shelley is "not" asked so many important questions. One is how he felt when the DPD ordered him to be driven to their headquarters to be interviewed. Did he think they had suspicions about him? What all did the DPD ask him and talk about? Also, Shelley is not asked to give a detailed timeline about his time on the 6th floor the morning of 11,22,1963 helping with a new floor installing project that had been going on for several days. When did he first go up to the 6th floor? How long did he stay there that morning? Did he ever once see Lee Harvey Oswald up there that morning? Shelley recounted that a small paper bag had been found by the police not far from the snipers perch window. It had chicken bones on it. Shelley recalled a worker named Givens was eating what Shelley recalls Givens telling him was a chicken sandwich and gives a time frame for this as 9:30 AM. Shelley added this comment..." those colored boys was always eating chicken." So, was 9:30 AM an official break time for the 6th floor crew to stop and eat a snack? Shelley claimed that he went to have lunch at 10 minutes before 12:PM. He said he usually ate in his office. But this day he went to the Elm Street main entrance on the first floor. Was this after he ate half his lunch? Shelley says he noticed Lee Harvey Oswald in that front entrance area standing by a wall mounted telephone. Shelley is stating this Oswald sighting at 12:PM or slightly after. Shelley then states that he went out to stand at the top of the outside entrance staircase leading down to the Elm Street sidewalk. He stands there until the motorcade passes by. He says he was out there with Billy Lovelady and other employees who he mentions and that were commonly accepted to be out there. Oswald told the Dallas PD that he too was in that location ( perhaps farther back inside?) and told them of Lovelady and Shelley's presence there. How would Oswald know of Shelley's presence on the outside steps if he wasn't near there himself? We know Oswald was in the front lobby area at 12:PM or slightly after according to Shelley's WC testimony. So, we are to assume Oswald ran up to the 6th floor before JFK was shot at 12:30? He only had a short window time frame to set up his perch and do the shooting. And just minutes after the shooting Dallas motorcycle police officer officer Marion Baker and TXSBD Superintendent Roy Truly see Oswald calmly drinking a Dr. Pepper soda pop four floors down in the 2nd floor employee lunch room. Shelley is running ( walking fast?) to and fro outside of the TXSBD building and next to the railroad area with Billy Lovelady starting just a few minutes after the shooting and is doing so for maybe 10 minutes. He finally comes back into the chaotic TXSBD scene and is told to watch the elevator entrance. You really have to read Shelley's entire WC testimony. It is not long. One other suspiciously odd part of Shelley's WC testimony : He stated that he was shown two rifles that had been brought into the company offices just 2 days before 11,22,1963. It was inferred that some employee brought these in to show them off? One was a 22 caliber which Shelley says he actually held. The other was ...drum roll...a modified 30.06 German "Mauser!" The same gun type Dallas County Sheriff constable Seymore Weitzman ( a gun buff ) first identified as the rifle first found on the 6th floor ( "Mauser" ) just one hour after the JFK shooting!? Shelley stated than in all of his 18 years time working at the TXSBD this rifle show and tell incident right inside their offices was the first time he had ever seen rifles brought into the building like that. Anyone ever find that facial recognition smart phone app that we mentioned in our initial thread postings? Would be extremely interesting to if someone could make a match of the two men seen in the above posted photos. The Shelley in Dealey Plaza one and the Oswald New Orleans leaflet passing one.

Bump

Why was Bill Shelley put in a police car and taken down to the police station in the first place? Wasn't Shelley a supervisor? Didn't general manager Roy Truly tell the DPD who he was and vouched for his position of responsibility credibility and innocence?

The jacketless man in the above photo is wearing a white dress shirt and thin tie. Again, this picture was taken on 11,22,1963. It is Bill Shelley. Was the red-haired man photographed on 11,22,1963 as well? So, how can the red-haired man be Shelley when we have several photos of the real Shelley that day, dressed so differently than the red-haired man?