Joe Bauer

This reported in todays news: 'The Guardian' reports that if the truth about UFOs really is out there, the United States government isn't ready to talk about it yet. Despite promises of more transparency, Congress has acted to control the flow of information that is made public regarding UFOs. On December 14, Congress stripped measures regarding UFO records from a massive defense policy bill signed into law with bipartisan support. Those measures would have created a presidential commission to review records of UFO incidents. It also would have ordered the Department of Defense to declassify , "records relating to publicly known sightings of unidentified aerial phenomenon (UAP).". 'The Guardian' reports that provisions were included in the bill that ordered the National Archives to collect reports of , "UAPs, technologies of unknown origin and nonhuman intelligence."

Pat, Do you think his pre-mature age death was suspicious?

I am one of the least qualified to ever post a judgmental opinion regards almost every JFKA related subject take that has passed through this forum. There are 100 to 200 other contributing members here (past and present) who are of the highest tier of research knowledge and credibility beyond anything I will ever come close to achieving. With that ... I still feel compelled to express a gnawing and ever-growing personal frustration with what I see as a too commonly expressed falsehood ( purposeful or not ) regards the true level of corruption of LBJ. And of what LBJ was truly capable of in exercising this corruption in protecting and promoting his personal, business and political agenda position of power, gain and influence and over-all presidential legacy. I'm not talking so much whether he was personally involved in the JFKA versus some involvement in controlling the investigations and even having some pre-knowledge of it's happening. I don't feel debate of that matter is totally invalid or unworthy. What I DO feel is that with everything all of us all now know about LBJ's life and actions before and after the JFKA and with so much documentation and 1st hand witness testimony that clearly exposes the true full depth of his corruption, it is hard for me to read others downplaying of it and/or pretending it just wasn't that deep and bad. If there is not enough "solid evidence" for these LBJ corruption down players to believe he was that tainted, it seems to me that there is "even less" solid evidence to promote the opposite. We have solid research proof of the almost unfathomable level of corruption in Texas politics from the top down for decades going back into the 30's as well of such involving the powerfully rich oil kings in Texas. At one time the wealthiest men on Earth. Murchison, D.H. Byrd, Hunt? The JBS, Minutemen and The Del Charro Motel set? Corruption that was so entrenched and serious minded that we know that murders were ordered at times to protect it. Isn't it time we grew up and accepted this truth, ominous as it was? And that LBJ was an active or at least protectively kept separated but fully aware part of it? I know that many here disparage and dismiss Barr McClelland and his book "Blood, Money And Power" but for what reasons? His publicly stated charge that LBJ was involved in the JFKA? Okay. That specific charge is too hard for them to swallow. However, McClelland's book exposed much more about the real bastions of long-time corruption power, influence and control in Texas politics and specifically the real head of this Gorgon cabal, Ed Clark and his law firm which was the most powerful in Texas for decades. Could any of you LBJ corruption down players also say Clark was above the darkest deeds of crime such as ordering or okaying murders in his time? The more I read about LBJ...the more his corruption seems worse and deeper than what has ever been officially approved written. I cringe when I read postings promoting LBJ as not really that corrupt. I suppose until Robert Caro himself finally declares that he believed LBJ was capable of ordering murders...LBJ's defenders will never change their view of him as just not being that bad and as ruthlessly corrupt as he was.

Mae Brussels was all over the Gehlen/Paper Clip/dirty deeds history. If she wasn't the first to expose it's nefarious provenance, she was one of the first.

Even LBJ's man on the Supreme Court (Abe Fortas - another fellow Texan ) ... was forced to resign due to a kickback scandal. When the big deal with Henry Marshall was his investigation into the huge funds Billy Sol Estes cotton kickback criminal enterprise and which most everyone now accepts as truth as being connected to LBJ in the form of kickbacks as well, it's obvious why he was murdered. Marshall was not murdered for any other reason. Which circumstantially could arguably point to an LBJ connection. One of the most outrageous examples of Texas corruption was how any police agency investigation of Henry Marshall could conclude Marshall's death was a suicide and with no higher state authority questioning that finding for years. Marshall was found severely, bloodily beaten. There was blood smeared on the side of his truck. There were signs of a struggle with disturbed ground. Marshall had enough carbon monoxide in his system to knock out a horse. Marshall had 5 bullets in him. So, Marshall was somehow able to turn a rifle backwards, unload 5 bullets into himself, and when he couldn't die from that he staggered along to the back of his truck and rubbed blood on the panels as he did and also slammed his head into something to create bruises and injury and then finished his self-immolation by kneeling down and putting his mouth over his tail pipe end and deep-breathed himself into unconsciousness? Was Marshall's truck found with the key inserted and turned in the running position? And found the next day simply out of gas? Or, had the truck engine been turned off before Marshall's self-destruction binge? ▼ Primary Sources ▼ Henry Marshall Henry Marshall, the son of a farmer, was born in Robertson County, Texas, in 1909. He studied chemistry at the University of Texas before becoming the only teacher at the Nesbitt Rural School. The school was forced to close in May, 1932, a victim of the Great Depression. Marshall managed to find work at a Franklin gin company. However, in August, 1934, Marshall became a clerk with the Agricultural Adjustment Administration (AAA). He worked at the agency's Robertson County office. Marshall was a good worker and it eventually held a senior post in the agency. In 1960 Marshall was asked to investigate the activities of Billie Sol Estes. Marshall discovered that over a two year period, Estes had purchased 3,200 acres of cotton allotments from 116 different farmers. Marshall wrote to his superiors in Washington on 31st August, 1960, that: "The regulations should be strengthened to support our disapproval of every case (of allotment transfers)". When he heard the news, Billie Sol Estes sent his lawyer, John P. Dennison, to meet Marshall in Robertson County. At the meeting on 17th January, 1961, Marshall told Dennison that Estes was clearly involved in a "scheme or device to buy allotments, and will not be approved, and prosecution will follow if this operation is ever used." Marshall was disturbed that as a result of sending a report of his meeting to Washington, he was offered a new post at headquarters. He assumed that Billie Sol Estes had friends in high places and that they wanted him removed from the field office in Robertson County. Marshall refused what he considered to be a bribe. A week after the meeting between Marshall and Dennison, A. B. Foster, manager of Billie Sol Enterprises, wrote to Clifton C. Carter, a close aide to Lyndon B. Johnson, telling him about the problems that Marshall was causing the company. Foster wrote that "we would sincerely appreciate your investigating this and seeing if anything can be done." Over the next few months Marshall had meetings with eleven county committees in Texas. He pointed out that Billie Sol Estes scheme to buy cotton allotments were illegal. This information was then communicated to those farmers who had been sold their cotton allotments to Billie Sol Enterprises. On 3rd June, 1961, Marshall was found dead on his farm by the side of his Chevy Fleetside pickup truck. His rifle lay beside him. He had been shot five times with his own rifle. Soon after County Sheriff Howard Stegall arrived, he decreed that Marshall had committed suicide. No pictures were taken of the crime scene, no blood samples were taken of the stains on the truck (the truck was washed and waxed the following day), no check for fingerprints were made on the rifle or pickup. Marshall's wife (Sybil Marshall) and brother (Robert Marshall) refused to believe he had committed suicide and posted a $2,000 reward for information leading to a murder conviction. The undertaker, Manley Jones, also reported: "To me it looked like murder. I just do not believe a man could shoot himself like that." The undertaker's son, Raymond Jones, later told the journalist, Bill Adler in 1986: "Daddy said he told Judge Farmer there was no way Mr. Marshall could have killed himself. Daddy had seen suicides before. JPs depend on us and our judgments about such things. we see a lot more deaths than they do. But in this case, Daddy said, Judge Farmer told him he was going to put suicide on the death certificate because the sheriff told him to." As a result, Lee Farmer returned a suicide verdict: "death by gunshot, self-inflicted." Sybil Marshall hired an attorney, W. S. Barron, in order to persuade the Robertson County authorities to change the ruling on Marshall's cause of death. One man who did believe that Marshall had been murdered was Texas Ranger Clint Peoples. He had reported to Colonel Homer Garrison, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, that it "would have been utterly impossible for Mr. Marshall to have taken his own life." Peoples also interviewed Nolan Griffin, a gas station attendant in Robertson County. Griffin claimed that on the day of Marshall's death, he had been asked by a stranger for directions to Marshall's farm. A Texas Ranger artist, Thadd Johnson, drew a facial sketch based on a description given by Griffin. Peoples eventually came to the conclusion that this man was Mac Wallace, the convicted murderer of John Kinser. In the spring of 1962, Billie Sol Estes was arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation on fraud and conspiracy charges. Soon afterwards it was disclosed by the Secretary of Agriculture, Orville L. Freeman, that Henry Marshall had been a key figure in the investigation into the illegal activities of Billie Sol Estes. As a result, the Robertson County grand jury ordered that the body of Marshall should be exhumed and an autopsy performed. After eight hours of examination, Dr. Joseph A. Jachimczyk confirmed that Marshall had not committed suicide. Jachimczyk also discovered a 15 percent carbon monoxide concentration in Marshall's body. Jachimczyk calculated that it could have been as high as 30 percent at the time of death. Assassination of John F. Kennedy Encyclopedia On 4th April, 1962, George Krutilek, Estes chief accountant, was found dead. Despite a severe bruise on Krutilek's head, the coroner decided that he had also committed suicide. The next day, Estes, and three business associates, were indicted by a federal grand jury on 57 counts of fraud. Two of these men, Harold Orr and Coleman Wade, later died in suspicious circumstances. At the time it was said they committed suicide but later Estes was to claim that both men were murdered by Mac Wallace in order to protect the political career of Lyndon B. Johnson. The Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations also began to look into the case of Billie Sol Estes. Leonard C. Williams, a former assistant to Henry Marshall, testified about the evidence the department acquired against Estes. Orville L. Freeman also admitted that Marshall was a man "who left this world under questioned circumstances." It was eventually discovered that three officials of the Agricultural Adjustment Administration in Washington had received bribes from Billie Sol Estes. Red Jacobs, Jim Ralph and Bill Morris were eventually removed from their jobs. However, further disclosures suggested that the Secretary of Agriculture, might be involved in the scam. In September, 1961, Billie Sol Estes had been fined $42,000 for illegal cotton allotments. Two months later, Freeman appointed Estes to the National Cotton Advisory Board. It was also revealed that Billie Sol Estes told Wilson C. Tucker, deputy director of the Agriculture Department's cotton division, on 1st August, 1961, that he threatened to "embarrass the Kennedy administration if the investigation were not halted". Tucker went onto testify: "Estes stated that this pooled cotton allotment matter had caused the death of one person and then asked me if I knew Henry Marshall". As Tucker pointed out, this was six months before questions about Marshall's death had been raised publicly. However, the cover-up continued. Tommy G. McWilliams, the FBI agent in charge of the Henry Marshall investigation, came to the conclusion that Marshall had indeed committed suicide. He wrote: "My theory was that he shot himself and then realized he wasn't dead." He then claimed that he then tried to kill himself by inhaling carbon monoxide from the exhaust pipe of his truck. McWilliams claimed that Marshall had used his shirt to make a hood over the exhaust pipe. Even J. Edgar Hoover was not impressed with this theory. He wrote on 21st May, 1962: "I just can't understand how one can fire five shots at himself." Joseph A. Jachimczyk also disagreed with the FBI report. He believed that the bruise on Marshall's forehead had been caused by a "severe blow to the head". Jachimczyk also rejected the idea that Marshall had used his shirt as a hood. He pointed out that "if this were done, soot must have necessarily been found on the shirt; no such was found." The Robertson County grand jury continued to investigate the death of Henry Marshall. However, some observers were disturbed by the news that grand jury member, Pryse Metcalfe, was dominating proceedings. Metcalfe was County Sheriff Howard Stegall's son-in-law. On 1st June, 1962, the Dallas Morning News reported that President John F. Kennedy had "taken a personal interest in the mysterious death of Henry Marshall." As a result, the story said, Robert Kennedy "has ordered the FBI to step up its investigation of the case." In June, 1962, Billie Sol Estes, appeared before the grand jury. He was accompanied by John Cofer, a lawyer who represented Lyndon B. Johnson when he was accused of ballot-rigging when elected to the Senate in 1948 and Mac Wallace when he was charged with the murder of John Kinser. Billie Sol Estes spent almost two hours before the grand jury, but he invoked the Texas version of the Fifth Amendment and refused to answer most questions on grounds that he might incriminate himself. Tommy G. McWilliams of the FBI also appeared before the grand jury and put forward the theory that Henry Marshall had committed suicide. Dr. Joseph A. Jachimczyk also testified that "if in fact this is a suicide, it is the most unusual one I have seen during the examination of approximately 15,000 deceased persons." McWilliams did admit that it was "hard to kill yourself with a bolt-action 22". This view was shared by John McClellan, a member of the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations. He posed for photographs with a .22 caliber rifle similar to Marshall's. McClellan pointed out: "It doesn't take many deductions to come to the irrevocable conclusion that no man committed suicide by placing the rifle in that awkward position and then (cocking) it four times more." Despite the evidence presented by Jachimczyk, the grand jury agreed with McWilliams. It ruled that after considering all the known evidence, the jury considers it "inconclusive to substantiate a definite decision at this time, or to overrule any decision heretofore made." Later, it was disclosed that some jury members believed that Marshall had been murdered. Ralph McKinney blamed Pryse Metcalfe for this decision. "Pryse was as strong in the support of the suicide verdict as anyone I have ever seen in my life, and I think he used every influence he possibly could against the members of the grand jury to be sure it came out with a suicide verdict." In 1964 the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations reported that it could find no link between Marshall's death and his efforts to bring to an end Billie Sol Estes' cotton allotment scheme. The following year Billie Sol Estes went to prison for fraud relating to the mostly nonexistent fertilizer tanks he had put up for collateral as part of the cotton allotment scam. He was released in 1971 but he was later sent back to prison for mail fraud and non-payment of income tax. Clint Peoples retired from the Texas Rangers in 1974 but he continued to investigate the murder of Henry Marshall. In 1979 Peoples interviewed Billie Sol Estes in prison. Estes promised that "when he was released he would solve the puzzle of Henry Marshall's death". Billie Sol Estes was released from prison in December, 1983. Three months later he appeared before the Robertson County grand jury. He confessed that Henry Marshall was murdered because it was feared he would "blow the whistle" on the cotton allotment scam. Billie Sol Estes claimed that Marshall was murdered on the orders of Lyndon B. Johnson, who was afraid that his own role in this scam would become public knowledge. According to Estes, Clifton C. Carter, Johnson's long-term aide, had ordered Marshall to approve 138 cotton allotment transfers. Billie Sol Estes told the grand jury that he had a meeting with Johnson and Carter about Henry Marshall. Johnson suggested that Marshall be promoted out of Texas. Estes agreed and replied: "Let's transfer him, let's get him out of here. Get him a better job, make him an assistant secretary of agriculture." However, Marshall rejected the idea of being promoted in order to keep him quiet. Estes, Johnson and Carter had another meeting on 17th January, 1961, to discuss what to do about Henry Marshall. Also at the meeting was Mac Wallace. After it was pointed out that Marshall had refused promotion to Washington, Johnson said: "It looks like we'll just have to get rid of him." Wallace, who Estes described as a hitman, was given the assignment. Billie Sol Estes also told the grand jury that he met Clifton C. Carter and Mac Wallace at his home in Pecos after Marshall was killed. Wallace described how he waited for Marshall at his farm. He planned to kill him and make it appear as if Marshall committed suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning. However, Marshall fought back and he was forced to shoot him with his own rifle. He quoted Carter as saying that Wallace "sure did botch it up." Johnson was now forced to use his influence to get the authorities in Texas to cover-up the murder. The grand jury rejected the testimony of Billie Sol Estes. Carter, Wallace and Johnson were all dead and could not confirm Billie Sol's testimony. However, the Grand Jury did change the verdict on the death of Henry Marshall from suicide to death by gunshot. On 9th August, 1984, Estes' lawyer, Douglas Caddy, wrote to Stephen S. Trott at the U.S. Department of Justice. In the letter Caddy claimed that Estes, Lyndon B. Johnson, Mac Wallace and Clifton C. Carter had been involved in the murders of Henry Marshall, George Krutilek, Harold Orr, Ike Rogers, Coleman Wade, Josefa Johnson, John Kinser and John F. Kennedy. Caddy added: "Mr. Estes is willing to testify that LBJ ordered these killings, and that he transmitted his orders through Cliff Carter to Mac Wallace, who executed the murders." Four days later, the Texas Bureau of Vital Statistics ruled that there was now "clear and convincing" evidence to prove Henry Marshall was murdered and State District Judge Peter Lowry ordered that the death certificate should be changed to "homicide by gunshot wounds".

Oh no Ron. Don't do that. Store it away. I can't tell you how many times pulling out an old National Enquirer issues during conversation lulls in social gatherings at our home has re-energized such. And I can sure relate to your search for deals regards groceries which have exploded in price. We regularly shop at our local dollar store now as we've been priced out at the regular big brand stores. Getting used to Chef-Boyardee canned ravioli and spaghetti. It's an acquired taste. The National Enquirer story is more interesting than most average Americans will ever know. It is called a rag...but it is much more than that and always has been. Millions of copies sell every week. It grabs you with hug block letter bold headlines that shock you but you have to check it out...In my own case I think "if that headline is a lie, why isn't Hillary Clinton suing?" The NE is a propaganda piece. Used seriously by the powers to be. It's big red lettered headlines are propaganda posters placed right in front of your eyes at the checkout counter, which tens of millions of shopping Americans see and read every day even if they don't buy the magazine. The powers behind these subliminal message headlines know that's all it takes to put doubt and suspicion in the minds of those that read them. The headline is the message. Usually fear based and anger inciting shock messages. "Hillary Clinton is a raving secret service abusing Les*** B**** who is part of a sexual abuse Pizza Parlor business." or, " Obama was not born here" or " Joe Biden and son are ..." and on and on. Often real truths are mixed in with their crazy sounding stories to create confusion regards the real truth...such as the UFO story. IMO anyways.

Reasonable speculation BB. And maybe Oswald left his theater seats and went back out into the candy concession area looking for someone who he thought might be there as he wasn't finding them inside? Or, maybe Oswald simply had to use the bathroom? Jack Davis said he didn't remember Oswald holding a popcorn container and considering Oswald wasn't gone that long when he left to go into the concession area, he certainly didn't eat the entire container there before coming back in the theater yes? Oswald's getting up and re-seating himself several times seems verified by the fact that Davis noticed this odd behavior enough to recount it with some detail when questioned about what he saw regarding Oswald in the brief time they were both in the same seating area. It takes something quite unusual to distract someone who is watching a film in a darkened theater imo. And this 22 year old candy concession worker Warren "Butch" Burroughs kid didn't sound like the brightest bulb in the room. Maybe kind of immature or even a little handicapped mentally? Read his Warren Commission testimony below. And it sounds as if the more mature 40 year old Julia Postal talked to him in that vein? "Now come on Butch..." Not personally disparaging the young man Burroughs, however I sense this older theater goer Jack Davis is simply more believable. Burrough's WC testimony: "Mr. BALL. You quit in the ninth grade? Mr. BURROUGHS. I stopped in the ninth grade, but I'm going to private school 2 days a week over in Highland Park. Mr. BALL. You are now? Mr. BURROUGHS. Yes; I am now. Mr. BALL. How old are you? Mr. BURROUGHS. Twenty-two. Mr. BALL. What have you been doing most of your life what kind of work have you been doing? Mr. BURROUGHS. I worked at the Texas Theatre and I helped my dad out as an apprentice, he is an electrician. Mr. BALL. Were you ever in the Army? Mr. BURROUGHS. No, sir----they tried to get me, but I couldn't pass----I passed the physical part, but the mental part----I didn't make enough points on the score, so the board sent me a card back and classifying me differently. "

More than just one or two people.

In his brief time in the Texas Theater it seems Oswald was constantly nervously running around in the back and/or balcony seating area including plopping down right next to others ( with many open seating areas all around ) and creeping them out to the point of their leaving their seats. Also running out into the popcorn concession area and maybe/maybe not buying a box of popcorn, making a quick bathroom visit and then darting back again in the darkened theater to continue saddling up right next to other movie goers? Curious, did any of the heebie-jeebie feeling seat holders perhaps mention Oswald holding up a torn half of a dollar bill he was carrying and asking them some odd question while doing so like "Is it safe?" Just this Oswald creepy Texas Theater seat hopping, popcorn buying story of intrigue alone deserves a book imo. "THE POPCORN MAN" "Lee Harvey Oswald And The Texas Theater Balcony incident!" "The Defining Story That Finally Exposes The 'Corn Popping Truth' About The JFKA."

Just beginning to read the very basics of the American "Matta Hari" Viola June Cobb story after reading these debate postings about her. What a life! Almost hard to believe. I'm surprised a major A list film was never considered regards her and her many mysterious, highest covert level doings. I clicked on Images for her. Hardly any came up with the exception of one particular photo. It is a full body shot. In this she looks as femininely attractive as a major Hollywood starlet. Beautiful really. Aren't there other photos of her in her prime? Sorry for the distraction from the much more important heavy weight debate discussion in this thread.

How's this for just another of the "hundreds of examples" of LBJ's corrupt actions and how deeply he was connected to the wealthiest power people in Texas who facilitated much of that corruption. It was all part of a cabal of almost unfathomable corruption running that state for decades. Very soon after a jury found LBJ protege' Mac Wallace guilty of "murder with malice" in his brutal, broad daylight, witnessed by many killing of Austin Pitch and Putt golf course manager Doug Kinser, the LBJ owned judge immediately reduces the recommended typical long term prison sentence to only a 5 year probation one ( surreally outrageous ) with immediate release from custody !? LBJ's long time close buddy wealthy Texas oilman D.H. Byrd ( the owner of the Texas School Book Depository Building ) then gives Wallace a manager salary job at his Ling-Temco-Vought corporation within weeks of his conviction for murder? Wallace, a man with no specific background training and qualifications for the job and a known history of serious alcohol addiction and abuse? And a job that required security clearance as "LTV" did contract work for our military and in secret project areas? How could a man just convicted of "murder in the 1st degree" with malice just weeks before and with a known history of severe alcohol addiction and abuse pass any background clearance checks for such a job and company? In LBJ's and Texas's hugely permeated world of corruption...no problem.

The timing of the Callaway call to the DPD using Tippit's own car radio as Bill Brown relates is one of the most solid points of credible evidence regards the actual shooting time of Tippit. Callaway hears 5 gun shots. Seconds later he sees a man ( Oswald? ) running past his sitting location. He calls out to the man...'Hey man, what the hell is going on?" As the man runs farther away from him without answering, Callaway jumps up and begins running full tilt towards the location of the gun shot sounds just a block and a half away. He thereupon comes across Tippit's car and Tippit's body laying prone next to it. Was Callaway the first person to Tippit's car and body? After examining the shocking murder scene before him, Callaway instinctively reaches in and grabs the car radio phone and probably knowing it's simple push button activation system, does so and reports what he sees to a dispatcher. What is the officially recorded time record of Callaway's car radio phone call-in? Depending on the amount of time between Callaway hearing the gun shots and his calling in using Tippit's car phone...one can most credibly deduce a very close time frame for the actual shooting of Tippit. I totally agree with BB's time estimate of Callaway's actions up until the phone call. The most time for this would be 5 minutes imo. I add another minute to BB's time estimate in part to allow for a mind freezing period of Callaway first coming upon Tippit's bloody shot up dead body and trying to take in the once in a lifetime brutally shocking scene. If the Callaway call-in was recorded at 1:19 pm, that puts the Tippit shooting time at 1:14 pm. Now, compare that time frame to the ones reported by the employees of the Texas Theater and the shoe store salesman next door. Especially the time the shoe salesman first reported seeing (Oswald?) stopping to turn his head away from the street and facing his storefront window. Any discrepancies?

Totally disbelieve the claim. If Oswald wouldn't stop and pay his theater entrance fee, either to avoid having another eyewitness who could identify him or simply because he was too cheap to do so, either reason would stand for his not buying popcorn there as well. This is one case where I think the claimant was seeking publicity. I always wondered about the fact that nowhere has it ever been stated or written that Oswald went to the bathroom between 12:PM 11,22,1963 and up until his arrest and first interrogations at the Dallas PD building. Supposedly Oswald rushed into his boarding house at North Beckley, walk straight and quickly into his rented room, stayed a few minutes and then just as quickly walked out and into the street. His landlady Roberts was there just feet away the entire time Oswald came into her area. She never saw him use the commonly shared bathroom outside of his room. Were there any people in the Texas Theater who claimed to have seen him go to the theater bathroom?

Great stuff there CV. Incredibly enlightening. The "real" power and control people in America. And based on Eisenhower's MIC warning speech...still in control in 1960.

Was watching an interview on the new Book channel just a week or so ago. The book was about JFK's Viet Nam policy and the history of exactly what went down there right up until JFK's murder. When the interview discussion reached the timeline of the Diem murder, the writer mentioned that Lucien Conein was the liaison in direct contact with the Generals who would take control once Diem was removed. That mention of Conein and in that context stopped me. I am not a student of Conein but have seen his name pop up often in the dens of debate and discussion here on the forum. He sounds like he is in the same shady stuff milieu as people like Wild Bill Harvey.

2. He was pinned by a Secret Service agent Riding two cars behind Kennedy and Connally in the fateful Dallas motorcade, seated awkwardly next to Yarborough, LBJ "got a foretaste of what might lie ahead if he remained vice president," Caro writes: "Five years of trailing behind another man, humiliated, almost ignored, and powerless." But all that changed, of course, when Kennedy was shot. After the gunshots rang out, Secret Service agent Rufus Youngblood threw Johnson to the floor of the car and covered him with his body. LJB rode that way, calmly, all the way to the hospital. 3. After the assassination, LBJ took charge Years earlier, when LBJ "traded in the power of the Senate Majority Leader, the most powerful Majority Leader in history, for the limbo of the vice presidency," his whole demeanor changed, Caro reports. His shoulders had stooped, he developed a "hangdog look," and he was restless and fidgety. But on that fateful day in November 1963, as soon as top Kennedy aide Ken O'Donnell told LBJ that the president had died, everything changed. "Right then," LBJ ally Rep. Homer Thornberry said, Johnson "took charge." And everyone knew it. 4. LBJ wouldn't leave for D.C. without the Kennedys The first big decision Johnson made was that he wasn't going to fly back to Washington without Jackie Kennedy and, by extension, JFK's body. Many worried that the assassination was part of a conspiracy, and that Johnson might be next, so the Secret Service quietly drove him back to Air Force One before the press learned that Kennedy was dead. LBJ's next big decision was getting sworn in as president on the plane, in Dallas. To legitimize the transfer of power, he wanted Jackie Kennedy and top JFK aides in the room when he took the oath. 5. His phone call to RFK fed a "great blood feud" Before taking the oath, Johnson made a phone call from Air Force One to the attorney general, JFK's brother Robert, who loathed LBJ. Johnson wanted a legal opinion on where to take the oath, and the wording, but he also wanted to mute any criticism from the president's brother. Still, right after "Robert Kennedy had been told that the brother he loved so deeply was dead... he found himself talking to a man he hated," who was asking him how he could "without delay, formally assume his brother's office," Caro writes. Indeed, that bitter call "became a crucial element in the great blood feud" between the two men — "perhaps the greatest blood feud in American politics in the 20th century."

LBJ of course wasn't in on any organizational planning of the JFKA. How stupid would that be? All that was required of him was the be okay with it. To be ready for it. And to make sure there was a controllable investigation of it. And what more obvious action could LBJ take to do that than to appoint someone like his longtime fellow JFK hating friend Allan Dulles to be an influential member of the investigative commission and his "like brothers" friend J. Edgar Hoover ( also JFK and RFK hating) to be in charge of the evidence they would use to reach their JFKA guilty party finding? I don't understand LBJ down players pretending LBJ wasn't corrupt enough to ever condone or even possibly order certain threat enemies to be murdered in his obsession with political power and personal wealth gain. And obsession Ed Tatro described as ruthless, E. Howard Hunt described as "maniacal" and Richard Nixon even ominously inferred "You know that Lyndon...he never liked to be number two!"

The above photo is "epically" disturbing. One of the most disturbing in American history. LBJ pulled the totally traumatized and blood covered Jackie Kennedy into his swearing-in ceremony? She certainly didn't ask or volunteer to be a part of this sick purpose, cramped body political photo-op scene on her own. The look of grief, shock and trauma ( even terror!) on Jackie's face is so powerful it is heart breaking and gut wrenching to even see. Just minutes earlier she saw her husband's head savagely blown apart (just inches from her face!) with his brains and blood sprayed all over her! She clearly looks like someone who is so psychologically traumatized her number one priority need should have been being tended to by mental health professionals in an extreme crisis protocol. Sat or laid down in a quiet calm place, comforted, kept away from any crowds at all. Maybe even sedated? Not thrust into a stifling body cramped space filled with LBJ sycophants more than anyone else. Jackie K. probably didn't hear a word of what was being said. To me her requested attendance in that ceremony was beyond misguided. It was stunningly thoughtless even cold-hearted cruel. A twisted self-interest promoting kind of cruel. Besides the ghastly look of grief and shock on Jackie's face, the photo's other aspects just enhances it's epic tragic, sad and thoughtless cruelty energy conveyance. Perversely so. Congressman Thomas is smilingly winking at LBJ in what looks to me like a "celebratory" gesture? Like "good going Lyndon buddy" you're THE MAN now! How f****** stupid ... even sick that looks in that photo. Imo there is not one rationally excusable reason Thomas could give to be smiling and congratulatory winking at LBJ in that social setting. Not one. And then there is Lady Bird's restrained yet still incongruously misplaced smile expression. I'm sure it wasn't intentionally unfeeling in meaning. I would imagine someone in her position not knowing exactly how to react in that unprecedented highly shocking sad and tension filled situation. Yet, Lady Bird's smile just adds to the photo's epically disturbing perverseness of a totally traumatized Jackie K's torment in not just being dragged into that stifling body cramped political photo-op den of LBJ cronies at a time of extreme psychological trauma personal need and care, but juxtaposed even more disturbingly with the odd facial expressions ( sinister meaning or not ) shown in it.

Ha. And how about "The Booze, Bets And Sex That Built America."

James Keane I agree.

Greg Burnham returns - WOW! You were one of the regularly contributing posters who many years ago kept me pulled into the forum as a non-member reading guest and eventually inspired me to taking the plunge and joining it. I really enjoyed your interviews of Gerry Patrick Hemming. That over-sized personality character of loud, boisterous and bragging bluster who was truly deep in the covert world of combat action intrigue to the degree that I believed much of what he claimed...was true! Good to see and read your insights here again.

Name me one highly researched, financed, and non-sanitized factually inclusive JFKA film ( documentary or commercial ) ever made that met the accuracy and libel standards you demand for JFKA truth legitimacy? No production group and script writer could ever attempt and create any truly honest JFKA film piece and have it meet your standards of accuracy and libel protection. You trash TMWKK ( and especially "The Guilty Men" episode ) as if they were the work of evil in violating the sacred biblical tenant of truth. Obviously you feel the other most famous JFKA films such as Oliver Stone's "JFK" or even Dalton Trumbo's "Executive Action" are of the same integrity soiling cloth? The reality is that no truly honest JFKA historical film adaption production could ever be made that doesn't include the thousands of factoids and testimonies that contradict the official WC narrative. And one that didn't question the integrity of many major players to at least an "inference" degree. LBJ's corruption was monumental. We all know this. "The Guilty Men" episode in the TMWKK series allowed for respected researchers to voice their beliefs regarding LBJ's corruption as well as a possible role in the JFKA. I believe that the History Channel and their parent company caved into a lawsuit pressure campaign that was so massive and born from some of the highest rungs of power unlike anything they ever imagined. They threw Nigel Turner and TMWKK doc. under the bus rather than face the very real prospect of expending millions of dollars in lawsuit proceedings. They had to apologize to Lady Bird Johnson? Talk of LBJ's guilt in the JFKA had already been widely discoursed nationally and even written about starting the day of Kennedy's death! Many best-selling books proposed the same accusatory charge! How about the Johnson family apologizing to America for LBJ's political and personal business corruption, lies and war policies that caused many thousands of American soldier deaths and millions of those we were ordered to kill? Nigel Turner's series exposed hugely important truths to the world regarding LBJ's true level of corruption and the much larger corruption machine that ran Texas since the 1930's and 1940's and that permeated into all areas of our government on much higher levels. Much of what Turner revealed about the JFKA and the major players involved in his TMWKK series was never known before and would have never been known except for it's creation.

The main conclusion they came to regards Oswald's JFK motive was what? I ask because it seems to me that it was simply this incredibly vague and weak - he wanted to be noticed as someone significant? Or, Oswald wanted to bring the entire systems of both world ruling governments down in one magnificent chaotic crash? As both the American and Soviet ones were abusive to the working classes? Or, it was an act of extreme personal frustration? Maybe even a suicidal one? Extreme hopelessness frustration over his failed marriage and losing the only three things he truly loved...Marina, Junie and newborn baby Rachel? Take THAT Marina. You rejected me so I am going to do something that will probably hurt you and our children the rest of their lives. You and they will be forever linked to the notorious killer of JFK. Hard to believe that one. Or, maybe he simply took on this task as a supreme act of love for Marina. For a large sum of money that would go to Marina...in some laundered way? Maybe through public sympathy funds? No, this one doesn't work for me either. Or, did he think that Castro would consider him a hero and finally allow him into his country? If it was the latter he sure could have used some help getting out of the country within minutes of the killing. Oswald's motives for everything he ever did is the ultimate enigma. His adventure in Russia. His pot shot at Walker. His New Orleans and Clinton activities. His Mexico City vacation. His backyard photos. His alleged shooting of JFK and Officer Tippit. All this unresolved motive confusion is the weakest link in any conclusion finding , especially the WC one...in my opinion anyways.

No role? In hindsight you think maybe they should have? Considering the worst-case security failure in American history? I also wonder what Hosty and his crew thought when Oswald was gunned down right inside of the Dallas police station? Gee...you see that? No professional criticism at all directed at the Dallas PD? They had our main suspect right in the palm of their hand. Ah, but it gave Hosty's boss Gordon Shanklin this great excuse to order Hosty to destroy the Oswald file. Well, he's dead now. Hosty get rid of this. But boss, isn't that destruction of evidence? Hosty...just do what I said ... okay?