Joe Bauer

Did you watch Ruby shoot Oswald on live TV like me BC?

If we never know "who exactly" did JFK ( and RFK and MLK ) one thing "I will know" and take to my grave: It was a conspiracy. I watched Jack Ruby blast a hole into Lee Harvey Oswald's guts "live" on national news TV the morning of 11,24,1963. From that second in time to this one...I knew in my soul that there was no way Oswald could have been gunned down right inside the DPD building with 70+ highest security minded in DPD history armed police personnel all around without someone on the inside allowing it to happen. That killing was clearly way beyond simple security negligence. The DPD lost the most important ( and most threatened ) criminal suspect in American history ... again right inside their own building? Ruby's impossible access to do what he did in that scenario is the most obvious proof that Oswald was allowed to be assassinated. I can read 1,000 JFKA conspiracy theory books ...and all of them combined will never be more convincing than what I witnessed that November 24, Sunday morning. I trusted my gut instincts ( even at 12 years old ) that much then, and still today at 72.

I believe I heard Leavelle say this in an interview as well. Many DPD cops could care less about JFK's brutal slaughter that day. Because of his ( JFK's ) liberal stance on segregation.

Oswald liked going to the movies. Marina testified he would take her to them occasionally and he would even go by himself. And I would guess that Oswald (like all young American boys raised in the 1950's) went to see the movies. Starting at the age of 5 or 6 I did that exact thing. And by myself. Our local theater charged only 25 to 35 cents. Weekends were great. Double features with 20 minutes of cartoons in between. Hercules films with Steve Reeves, Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin, Abbott and Costello, cheap special effects Japanese monster movies like Godzilla and Mothera. Lots of traditional monster movies like Frankenstein, Dracula, Wolf Man... giant ants, giant crabs, giant tarantula... "The Incredibly Shrinking Man" ... the BLOB ... you name it. My mom would give me a little extra to buy candy and popcorn. My teeth rotted out from eating things like sugar daddys, rollos, Nickos, JuJu Bees, etc. every weekend for years. Chugging Coke. I probably became a diabetic to a degree by my teen years I think. One day in the packed weekend kiddie film show some sadistic minded kid threw his sugar daddy at the screen in the middle of the movie. It stuck right there in the middle. The theater manager/owner was so mad he left it up there the rest of the day. My point being that going to the theater was for sure a regular entertainment thing for Oswald from a very young age as was typical in those days. Heck, Oswald was apparently so relaxed when he got in and found a seat he decided to make it a real treat and buy some popcorn to boot. He already drank a Dr. Pepper just 1 and 1/2 hours earlier in the lunch room of the TXSB depository building...so that may explain his not getting another with his popcorn? Some rational points to consider... don't you think?

I've actually laughed thinking about how the Texas Theater became DPD response Grand Central station at rush hour so quickly. Yes, Tippit had been shot just minutes before and JFK just one and a half hour earlier...and the DPD was in all out frantic BOLO alert mentality mode. Still when the shoe store manager/salesman called in and/or one of the theater employees called in...they simply mentioned that a man who was acting suspiciously walked by the shoe store and then went into the movie theater without paying. They didn't tell the police..."hey, I think the man who shot JFK and Tippit might be sitting in the theater seats? The DPD BOLO radio dispatches were not heard by the public. The news on the radio didn't broadcast a general public warning like that as well. The shoe salesman didn't hear about the Tippit shooting. He didn't hear that the police were looking for a 30 year old, 5 foot - ten inch JFK assassination suspect running the streets of Oak Cliff. Yet, in just minutes everybody from everywhere were racing to the theater. Heck, even Hugh "Clark Kent" Aynesworth flew down there in just minutes of the initial employee call in.

Coming from your eloquent self Joe, I take that as a great compliment. Me? Eloquent? Ha! I'm just grateful the forum tolerates my uneducated layman, surface coverage postings.

Excellent.

It's easy to be lulled into the Ruby as simple small time "tacky strip joint owner who did nothing more nefarious than beat the holy crap out of unruly Carousel Club customers and cursing cat fight with his stripper girls over pay" camp of thought. It's true Jack Ruby "was" intelligent enough to start up and run such an enterprise ( although it was always running in the red ) and along with his sister Eva had done so with other Dallas area clubs for several years going back into the early 50's. It does take some initiative and responsible business acumen to do that for years. Ruby paid his bills, paid his rent, paid his many employees including his band, took care of advertising including newspaper ads, pictures and billboards, found, protected and paid his girls, promoted his club with almost manic business card passing, kept a consistent compliance relationship with the cops and Vice squad. His business was lurid naked women displaying and cheap booze pushing but he did it with what he perceived as class and well enough to at least keep in business for many years. He and his brothers also dabbled in other side business ventures throughout their lives like the twist board and whacky plaques, etc. There was a streak of enterprising drive in their DNA. Ruby also kept himself physically fit. Didn't smoke or drink. Maintained a consistent bond with his religious faith. Very lovingly cared for his dog Sheba. Seth Kantor's well researched book "Who Was Jack Ruby" however proved there was much more to Jack Ruby than all of the above and that anyone had ever found and reported before, especially our major news organizations. No one of responsible truth digging responsibility ever gave this super important subject the research it deserved, except Seth Kantor. The Warren Commission didn't want to know more about Jack Ruby than what the FBI was willing to provide to them. Imagine if Kantor's "Who Was Jack Ruby" research findings had been open testimony presented to them in their investigation? Imagine also if Kantor had not done his research work and written and published his seminal tome on the "real" Jack Ruby? To this day no one would know what Kantor discovered and revealed about Jack Ruby - the real truth. And the following Warren Commission summation report finding is one of the most integrity invalidating of all: They chose to believe the testimony of highly mentally unstable Jack Ruby over a highly respected and achieving journalist Seth Kantor, who told them under oath that Jack Ruby had engaged him in conversation while they were both present at Parkland hospital during the time JFK was there. The Warren Commission actually stated that Seth Kantor was simply too over-excited to think straight and remember coherently his meet up with Jack Ruby at Parkland that epically historic afternoon! That false finding alone just chills you. Jack Ruby was into so much more than putting strippers on stage, getting into cat fights with them, beating the tar out of drunk, loud and stage runway ankle grabbing customers and bringing in deli sandwiches to the Dallas PD late at night from time to time. The real Jack Ruby is there for all to see through Seth Kantor's book..."Who Was Jack Ruby."

Bump.

Ruth simply hated Lee Oswald imo. For many reasons. I believe much of this hatred was born early on after she observed what she felt was boorish mistreatment of Marina by Lee from the first days she encountered Marina and Lee, all the way through to his end. Ruth seemed to develop an infatuation with Marina. From the first day she met her. Marina was Russian born and raised. Ruth was always interested in Russia. Their culture and their language. Marina was young and very pretty. She had a soft feminine demureness in her manner. Also a vulnerability obviously being so young and in a new strange land and not speaking the language very well. Her sparkling blue eyes ( big and wide set ) were simply alluring and also shown an innate intelligence. Everyone who met Marina felt an immediate physical attraction toward her. Why wouldn't Ruth? In the course of Ruth's year and a half long, off and on contact with Marina and Lee, I believe she also developed a growing protectiveness toward Marina. She'd see Marina and Lee living in some of the lowest standards of housing. At one point after a long summer vacation trip with her children she stopped to see Marina while pregnant Marina and Lee and Junie were living in a rundown apartment in New Orleans. She spent the night there but had to buy roach repellant and spray it in a big circle on the floor around where she and her two children slept. She observed that Marina was getting no prenatal health care, her teeth were rotting out and she made the offer to Marina to escape that neglectful situation and come live with her until the baby arrived. From there we know much. Including Ruth's growing dislike of Lee. I believe she found Lee to be boorish, arrogant and at times chauvinistically controlling of Marina. Yet at the same time seeing him as a no-count cad unable to responsibly take care of his wife and children which she took on. She was civil toward Lee obviously. Allowed him to even stay at her house to spend time with Marina and his little girl Junie. Over-all Ruth deserves credit for all she did for Marina and Junie and her tolerance of Lee. Personally however, she despised Lee. He was unappreciative. Disrespectful in the most egregious way..." he ( Lee ) used my typewriter without asking!" "And that offended me greatly." I think that in some way Ruth felt that Lee's demise freed Marina from a possible continuous miserable life if Marina gave into Lee's pressuring and went back to him. Ruth Paine is an intriguing person. Her and her husband came from wealthy and seriously politically engaged lineage. That story alone makes her and her husband stand out in the realm of curious interest. I think Ruth felt an emotional, even smitten loss when Marina was taken away and chose not to stay close to her at all...forever.

Oswald's true mental state back then is one of the biggest mysteries of the entire event. If one is not a trained killer for hire or ordered to kill by authorities such as military and Mafia ... it takes a certain mind set to go over the line and kill someone and not in self-defense. Killing another human being using your own hands is one of the most deeply effecting experiences any person can ever go through. Veterans of military conflict combat often have lifetime PTSD and even nightmares about killing others in battle. A murderous mind set is explainable however in times of passion and especially enhanced by alcohol. Like Mac Wallace shooting his sexual love triangle rival Doug Kinser in broad daylight and in front of nearby witnesses. Delusional mental illness is also a common trait of people who kill others without a rational reason. Serial killers also have deep mental illness. But Oswald seems to have been none of the above! Yet, he allegedly plans and carries out a shooting of General Walker? He missed but his intent was to blow Walker's head off? He justifies this insane extreme action to his upset wife Marina by asking her if killing Hitler wouldn't have also been a good thing? Then, again allegedly, Oswald not just kills officer Tippit but does so in an extremely brutal way. 3 body shots topped off with a coup de grace shot in his head? 3 body shots weren't enough? Mafia hit men go that far to send a message of fear to anyone else who may threaten their bosses. The shots into JFK on Elm street were just as brutal. Sadistically brutal. Blow his head apart and into a showering cloud of bloody spray ... inches from his wife's face? If Oswald was the shooter of JFK and Connally...he had to have been seriously mentally ill. His doing so was not just an act of extreme brutality but also an act of suicidal insanity. He knew his position was extremely visible and exposed with fully illuminating mid-day sun light to hundreds below. He knew the booming loudness of his shots would draw attention to his location. And he then believes he can just walk down some stairs afterwards and walk away? He has no help in escaping? He is so poor he has to use the cheapest form of transportation to get away - a city bus? There's something so irrational there that it begs total doubt and suspicion. But it's the brutality of his killings that throws me. If Oswald was hate filled to the point of rage then "maybe" one can understand his blasting these three people's heads off. If Oswald did what he allegedly did there seems to be no other psychological explanation that fits his motives. Just pure deep rage?

Doug Caddy...thank you for posting this Peter Dale Scott entry. It is so enlightening in so many ways. Scott says to rationally and meaningfully study the JFK and JFKA story, you must study "everything" as well. The huge percentage of peoples simply don't have the freedom and inclination to do so. In reading the thread I also found myself linking back to the great philosophers and their teachings and sharings that in the least have guided us to be more than just law of the jungle dog-eat-dog bullies and survivalists. And led us to actually create something as close to the Greek ideal of a constitutional democracy as we have... Cleisthenes and Pericles : Solon, was a wise man among the Greeks. He blamed the turmoil of Athens on greedy aristocrats. He laid the foundation to make all citizens equal and reduce the greed among aristocrats. But, it was Cleisthenes who is remembered as the Father of Democracy. Also Scott wonderfully expounds upon the need for balancing the descent into the dark heaviness of the JFKA with an equal amount of more light-minded, light-hearted and even playful diversion of thought and activity. So true! A walk outdoors? Or maybe just a drive which in my area means rich forest and ocean views? Cleaning chores around the house? Watching TV cooking shows, and/or comedic or old classic movies or TV shows on the internet...you name it. Yes, a conglomerate killed JFK. They all hated JFK with equal fervor ...even to a murderous degree. Machiavellian in it's purest form. Murchison family seamstress and housemaid Mae Newman: "When JFK was killed the mood in the Murchison household was joyous." "Like the champaign and caviar flowed for a week. I was the only one who grieved for the Kennedy family."

That was a very touching memoriam.

The proven truth is Roscoe White was a man of many secrets. Serious secrets. Perhaps even involving killing others according to his long-time pastor. He guarded and kept those secrets even from his wife and children, to the very end. A man steeled with a tough, obeying orders Marine mind set. His post military job life seemed somewhat unsettled and random. Different jobs, moving about. He only stayed on the Dallas Police force for what...2 years? He seemed restless as if civilian life didn't provide the visceral excitement of the combat ready duty and travel life of a young Marine overseas. White was a man of physical action intrigue. He seemed drawn to it. He liked the ladies and indulged himself. Roscoe White was no Ward Cleaver. And his Carousel Club waitress wife Geneva was no June Cleaver. At one point in his post Dallas Police employment life, White had a large instant income boost that enabled him to afford a new home, a lake side cabin and other amenities. According to his wife's and son's recounting, this seemed strange and unexplainable to them. They didn't think his regular work pay could have provided this. Again, another Roscoe White secret. With all this known irregular work and personal life background info regards the secretive Roscoe White ( as well as his Lee Harvey Oswald coincidences ) it makes total sense to consider him with serious minded suspicion from the minute he entered the Dallas police force scene imo. And what is it about diaries? Oswald had his diary. White kept one. Mary Meyer kept one. And they all go missing? I never even thought of keeping one and I can't recall knowing anyone who has kept one.

In the initial post interview video of Dallas PD motorcycle patrolman Hargis, he mentions knowing Roscoe White as a fellow Dallas Police Officer. If Hargis knew officer Roscoe White, it must not have been very well and for very long. White only had a month of Dallas PD employment when JFK was killed. An he initially worked in the Identification Bureau. How well could motorcycle patrolman Hargis have known White at that time? Hargis spent 45 years on the force? Wow! That is a long time. Yet, White was only on the force for two years? Way back from 1963 to 1965? The Dallas PD employed over 1,000 men ( and women in administrative positions ) in 1963 and frequently we have heard many of those employed during that time say that they may not have known everyone on the force because of the sheer high number of employees and such varied departmental differences in duties, specialties and assignments. Throw in constant personnel turn-over to retirements, resignations, new hires, etc. Certainly Hargis didn't know everybody on the force because of those facts. Yet, he knew Roscoe White? Again, how well? In this interview, Hargis scoffs at the notion of officer White being involved in any way to the JFKA. He inferred that he knew White well enough to defend his integrity as a police officer as unquestionable. Was Hargis knowledgeable about White's military travels, duty stations and assignments? And the coincidences of White's and Oswald's sharing many of the same specific military duty locations and assignments at the exact same time? Did Hargis ever read about or hear the facts of White's post Dallas PD duty life? Was Hargis informed of the Reverend Shaw's claim that White confessed to him that he ( White) had killed men both here and on foreign soil? Suggesting that White may have been trained as a hit man both in the military and in civilian life? How about White's multiple trysts with women other than his wife which even she knew about. These are integrity honesty issues. Hargis's unquestionable belief of White's good and loyal character seems less credible because of these proven Roscoe White actions...imo anyways. Did Roscoe White really own a Mauser rifle ( as his son Ricky claimed ) like the one Dallas County Sheriff Department Constable Seymour Weitzman ( a gun buff and sporting goods store owner ) first described as the rifle found on the sixth floor of the Texas Schoolbook depository just after JFK was shot? White's death does sound more plausible as a murder versus accident imo. Roscoe White's wife Geneva did work for Jack Ruby. If only for a month or two like most of his constant turnover employees. The famous picture of her displaying her sexy feminine wares to a leering Jack Ruby more than proves this claim. And Ruby most certainly knew she was married to a DPD officer and surely seen him dropping Geneva off or picking her up from the Carousel which stayed open until late in the evening? An acquaintance relationship that could easily have included an occasional get-together ( if even one ) such as a barbeque invite to Ruby, especially if the White's and Ruby lived fairly close to each other. Do the famous Lee Oswald backyard photos show Oswald's forearms as somewhat hairy versus not? I'll have to look. I was surprised at how much hair Oswald had on his forearms as shown in his DPD lineup ( see below ) and autopsy morgue table photos. And I am now curious about Life Magazine getting Oswald's back yard photos and putting them on the cover of their national magazine. They got these within days! I just don't see the DPD or even the FBI so easily and immediately handing over such crucially important and Oswald incriminating evidence like that to be splashed all over the nation. Isn't that a risk of tainting such Oswald incriminating evidence? Who violated such important protocols regards such evidence? Was it Roscoe White? Did Life magazine ever reveal their BYP leaking source? Life had to have paid something for them. Life Magazine got both the Zapruder film AND the BYFs! Whoever owned Life must have had some highest level connections to pull off that coup.

Violent segregationist Joseph Milteer knew JFK was going to be assassinated. He described JFK's killing and Oswald's arrest to Miami PD informant Willie Somerset that JFK's assassination was "in the workings." He said JFK would be shot by a high powered rifle from high floor building. He said the police would pick up suspect ( patsy) within hours of the shooting. Milteer shared this scenario to Somerset within just two weeks prior to it's happening. Hours after it did, Milteer called Somerset to boast..." I told you it was going to happen." If all those specific details were just a lucky guess on Milteer's part, the man should have been contacted by the SRI "Remote Viewing" project. Even Ingo Swann and Joseph McMoneagle couldn't have had such a detailed hit like that. Milteer engaged with the same White segregation groups as Guy Banister.

Zapruder Film JFK Assassination Head Shot Slow Stable Smooth 1080p HD

If only there was a picture of Tortoriello. He is involved personally with so many major characters in the Mafia/Ruby/Carousel Club connection. Dallas Mafia Capo Joe Civello, Lewis McWillie, Ruby himself, Jada. He was certainly known in other high level Mafia circles as well as the mentioned in the FBI memos above including, New York, Chicago and one would think Vegas where McWillie lived and New Orleans as Jada lived there right up to her three month gig in Dallas.

Fascinating. Tortoriello was a Mafia bodyguard? Was this the fellow who raced to help Ruby's feature stripper Jada ( Janet Conforto ) right after her pedestrian hitting incident while trying to race out of Dallas the morning of 11,22,1963?

If true it is a huge revelation. A two month duty Dallas PD employee ( with no police academy training and assigned to the identification bureau ) is in Dealey Plaza and chasing supposed suspects up into the knoll area within 25 seconds after the JFK head shot? Ridiculous. I've always believed the Roscoe White story is truly a majorly important one in the JFKA affair.

The FBI and SS's inaction in response to the Milter threat tape relative to the Miami Police one is simply not defensible imo. The excuse that the SS just didn't translate that threat to Dallas is patently absurd, ludicrous and totally illogical. Dallas was ground central home to the most rabid and powerful JFK hating groups and individuals in the entire country at that time. The most extreme commie threat promoting ( JFK was a the most targeted commie threat to them ) right wing groups ( JBS and Minute Men ) organized and financed by the world's wealthiest men-Texas oil, General Walker whom JFK and RFK had involuntarily committed to a mental ward, KKK rampant in the city's police department and probably other departments, EXTREME JFK hating Mafia Don Carlos Marcello controlling Dallas through his lieutenant Joe Civello, and even a hot-headed ex-patriot Cuban JFK BOP blaming community, JFK and RFK hating LBJ and Texas's corrupt political machine ... hence, Dallas just wasn't the threat potential of San Antonio ? ... Please.

Exactly DC. And you have me with your "smoking barbecue on your Webber" hobby interest skills. I can taste your mouth watering delicious cooking's right now! Milter should have been on the highest level of the most serious JFK threat scale. That Miami tape so shook up the Mimi police department they cancelled JFK's motorcade to the stadium that weekend. The Miami police department acted more responsibly than the SS and FBI in that area of presidential protection.

Fascinating and hugely important historical info DC. No wonder Castro was able to gain control. Cuba was ripe for a revolution. For decades before 1960 Cuba was one of the most corrupt countries on Earth. Corrupt politicians and organized crime and multi-national corporation ownership all ripping off everything they could out of that country...at the expense of the lowest income citizenry, the huge majority of their population. Same old 3rd world nation stripping of wealth and resources by a relatively small group of obsessed profiteer's story. The vast majority of average American citizens never saw any gain at all in that game. Just a small group of super wealthy.

The SS and FBI should have been all over Milteer continuously from the day they listened to the Miami tape where he told National States Rights informant William Somersette that an attempt on JFK's life was "in the workings." With Milteer even detailing the MO of the attempt..."with a high powered rifle from an office building " and how the police would be thrown off track with a duped patsy picked up within hours as the guilty party. Milteer laid out to Somersette the exact scene that took place in Dallas just two weeks later! Either Milteer was just uncannily lucky in a coincidental way, highly psychic or... he really did know "the plan" imo. My common sense tells me Milteer and his detailed threat against JFK might have been the most serious threat against JFK in the nation at that time. Top of the SS and FBI list! Milteer was a super aggressive, dangerous, serious minded racist provocateur, who was quite wealthy and the FBI knew he had been traveling out-of-state lines and involved in some really serious racially motivated crimes. A known and provenly dangerous character and who hated JFK with a rabid murderous wishing degree. The FBI knew this totally. After the Miami tape, to not be all over this guy24/7 until JFK's election campaign tour was finished and JFK was safely back in DC was so illogical it was highly suspect.

Wonder what top mobsters Jada was close to in New Orleans? Maybe even Carlos Marcello himself? Surely with her hyper sexual movie star beauty looks ( seriously Marilyn Monroe level imo ) she attracted men from the top tier of power and wealth.