Joe Bauer

Isn't that exactly what E. Howard Hunt said? And LBJ to his long-time mistress Madeline Brown?

Can't leave out Bill Harvey and E. Howard Hunt.

Andrej, could you provide a link to the early forum Bill Shelley thread you mention? I would really appreciate it. Also, when looking at that photo of Thomas Beckham that L. Hancock thinks is the Oswald Trade Mart background man I see some discrepancies that seem so obvious to me. 1. The Beckham fellow is much younger looking than Shelley at that time. 2. His hair is much darker than the Trade Mart background photo man. And the Shelley look-a-like man has a paler skin tone. 3. The Trade Mart photo man's face is much, much more boney and cheek sunken in and brow bone protruding than Beckham. 4. Beckham' nose is more pointy on the end than Shelleys. The Trademart man's nose seems more flattened on the end like Shelleys. 5. I don't know what this Beckham fellow did for a living but it looks to me that he is not a "suit and tie" type person. He looks like a carney more than a suit and tie wearing professional person. Beckham has a similar hugely high Everly Brothers/Elvis pompadour type hair style true. But I do not see the very prominent "widows peak" top of the forehead hair line Shelley had and the Trade Mart persons hair line seems to also depict. However Beckham's hair does drop down to cover his forehead to obscure any widows peak I admit.

If any video filmed in Dealey Plaza that day would be deemed most alteration important it would have been those that showed the front steps of the TXSBD just before, during and right after the shooting. Imagine even one that happened to show Lee Harvey Oswald back in the shaded area of the top steps?

Count me in regards your Reiner bandwagon support crusade Paul. We could call ourselves the "Paul Brancato Possy!" Providing our hero with Paul Revere type warning advice and encouragement. I deeply bonded with Rob Reiner's lovable Archie Bunker infuriating liberal character "Meat Head" in the "All In The Family" TV show throughout the 1970's. As well as being infatuated with Archie's beautiful blond daughter Gloria. To me Reiner will always be "Meat Head." Just like Jeff Bridges will always be "The Great Lebowski." And Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels will always be Floyd and Harry. You go Rob Reiner!

Of course Marina held secrets. I believe she was by her own individual nature a secretive person. And she was raised in a country and society with a very repressive political expression fear type system that was known for making such an absolutely necessary part of everyday life. Marina's uncle Ilya Prusakov ( whom she lived with for a time ) was a colonel in the Soviet Ministry of Internal Affairs! Even the other Dallas white Russians who had been in the US for decades but raised in the old country seemed to exhibit that same mentality. Read Dallas White Russian Paul Gregory's memoirs about his family keeping their personal interaction history with Lee and Marina Oswald secret ... for decades! And one can imagine the trove of secrets held by George De Mohrenschildt alone! It's been written that keeping secrets was as much a normal Communist controlled Russian daily life thing as their love of soup, bread, potatoes, educational status and Vodka. Marina also recounted she was quite the rebel in her teen days. Certainly she kept her wildest escapades secret from her guardians during that time. At some point while living in Texas with Lee, Marina was secretly writing love letters to one of her old boyfriends back in Russia. Lee discovered an insufficient postage returned one and reportedly beat the crap out of her for doing so. Marina kept secrets from Ruth Paine. Marina kept secrets from the White Russians whom she interacted with for various reasons. Lee Oswald's physical abuse of her for one. Marina kept secrets from her initial questioners after 11,22,1963. Marina secretly smoked. Marina lied, but she also had to lie. For many logical reasons. Besides having to lie about her husband's illegal violence and weird political activities shenanigans out of self-protecting and incrimination fear she undoubtedly also lied out of humiliating shame and embarrassment. If any young woman ever had to live through anything even remotely close to the epically crazy and unstable situation that late term pregnancy 21 and 22 year old poverty stricken Marina was going through ( and who was alone without any blood family support ) you "might" understand how confusing and humiliating it all must have been and how you ( like Marina ) might be numb about what you should say to anyone about anything. There was only one Dallas White Russian person Marina felt relaxed enough around to confide her true deepest inner feelings to ... Jeanne Legron De Mohrenschildt. She really opened up to Jeanne De M. Marina told Mrs. De M. her true feelings about Lee. How he was an idiot. A political ideas crazy person. Spending money on dangerous toys ( his guns ) versus practical family needs. Also how he couldn't satisfy her sexual needs. He'd rather read his books that romp with her in bed. How he could not keep a job. To me, Marina's shockingly candid secret personal feeling sharings about Lee to Jeanne De M revealed how extremely dissatisfied, disdainful of and just plain miserable she was with him. Jeanne De M said she was shocked by what Marina shared with her regards Lee. She thought Marina's sharing of such intimate details of her married life was a shameful betrayal of the sacred tenets of marriage privacy, loyalty and respect. Jeanne DeM had a much more traditional, old school honorable view of that union. I'm not trying to judge Marina Oswald in my post essay here. Who am I to do so? She had a right to be who she was. And her worst traits weren't that bad in the larger scheme of life. She was such a young and distressed woman. Living an extremely unstable life with child and infant. Humiliatingly having to be dependent on others just to secure a roof over her babie's heads. She did what she felt she had to do ( often on the spur of the moment starting on 11,22,1963 ) to just survive and protect herself and her children. In my common sense life experience view, only those who have lived such an unstable rough life at that age with children ( let alone enduring through the beyond words trauma stress of her husband Lee's arrest for murder ) could begin to understand Marina's confused and scared mental and emotional state and hesitancy to be totally open about many things. And, let me say this about Marina...she definitely came from some strong basic survival instincts stock. Most young women with two babies and alone with no familial support would have mentally collapsed and given up after being thrust into Marina Oswald's surreally unbelievable stress situation. I would guess Communist Russia born and raised women of her era ( who were used to living the extremely spare material goods life ) were likely more so like Marina in that way versus those born and raised in much more economically better off and materially indulged countries. And one last observation regards Marina's remarkable inner strength survival will and resiliency. Imagine, through all Marina had to endure and go through in her crazy stressful life before and after Lee...then being hit on by who knows how many high position men who had drooling out-of-control lustful hots for her and shamefully and even aggressively went after her in her extremely vulnerable emotional state. Yet, she still managed to keep it all together even through that added extra stress of that incessant sexual pressure wolf attack. You go girl!

Wow! That's a lot of x-rays. Surprised Ruby didn't glow in the dark near the end of his life. All of Dorothy Kilgallen's investigative notes and files simply disappear upon her death? Years of work? Probably many boxes? Somebody beat the police and the FBI in stealing them in a few hours time frame? Dorothy's husband doesn't demand a full on criminal investigation? Instead he simply goes into seclusion and won't talk to anybody about her death? D. Kilgallen's closest confidential conversation friend Mrs. Smith dies very soon after DK? We've all read the factual record of the appearance of the death scene of Dorothy Kilgallen. It reads like a comedic version of an Agatha Christie Hercule Poirot "Who Done It" novel. Kilgallens found in one of her bedrooms and beds she doesn't use? Dressed in bed clothes she wouldn't wear? Her make-up and hair are still on and up? A book that she had already read is sitting upside down in front of her? Her last used glass is sitting on a bed table farther away than she could reach? The past midnight nighttime temperature in New York on "November 8" is so warm and humid she felt the need to turn on her air-conditioning unit full blast? She had some cocktails with a mystery friend late that night ( some suspected Ron Pitaki?) after her appearance on the hugely popular "What's My Line" nationally broadcast TV show? It was proposed that she accidentally took too many pills upon going home and getting in bed to read and it was the combination of the booze and pills that did her in? An Agatha Christie tale of DK's death would surely suggest she was the victim of a Mickey Finn. A movie of Dorothy Kilgallen's life and death would have a hard time depicting her death scene in any non-conspiracy way without eliciting knee slapping guffaws from the audience. I've said it one hundred times and I'll say it again. If ever there was a great A List film that begged to be produced (and yet illogically never was) nothing tops the life and mysterious death of one of the most iconic, accomplished and high society celebrity famous dames of American culture in the 1950's and 1960's ... Dorothy Kilgallen. Why not? Ask the powers to be who made sure it wasn't. Scripted truthfully it would have been as JFKA suspicion questioning threatening as Oliver Stone's JFK. If this story made the big screen no later than 2,000, Meryl Streep would have been the perfect Dorothy Kilgallen.

Bingo, Bravo, Right On MF! LBJ was on the verge of losing his entire career and perhaps even facing jail time as investigations into his criminal business doings had reached serious action critical status. The Bobby Baker scandal, the Billy Sol Estes one, his Texas business dealings ...you name it. It was all going to come out. There was only one way to make it all go away.

You're questioning the most important criminal suspect in American history and you don't have a tape recorder going or a stenographer taking notes? Good ole Boy Captain Will Fritz was known for his interrogation style of keeping them hidden from such procedures which were in place to protect the suspect's rights and susceptibility to being brow beaten or threatened, but in Oswald's case this was so outrageously illogical it was actually criminal. Using these unethical interrogation methods on shop lifting or simple robbery suspects is one thing...but a suspect that the entire world is craving to hear what he has to say? Beyond nuts! Then, just hours later your most threatened criminal suspect in American history ( by far!) is shot and killed right inside your own Police Department building? Due to your lax security and publicly announced broad daylight time of transfer? Fritz and Curry both "ignored" the most concerned warnings by even their own staff to not risk moving Oswald except at night and with no public announcements of it. They both should have been FIRED for all their outrageously negligent Oswald security decisions which resulted in the worst possible scenario. Oswald's murder while in their custody. Our entire nation lost perhaps the only chance we had to learn the full truth regards the true guilty parties of the JFKA. Great job there Willy...and Jessie!

Oswald ( or whoever was in the SE corner 6th floor window of the TXSBD ) couldn't have drawn more attention to himself if he had pulled out a megaphone and shouted ..."I'M UP HERE!" He at times stands so close to his half-opened window with rifle in hand, several sidewalk bystanders directly below who just happened to be idly gazing around see him well enough to give a general description of his build, clothing, hair type and even the rifle! And the shooter chooses a building wall located shooting perch right next to and right above the motorcade route and which is so brightly illuminated by the full noon-time sun...it couldn't have been more visible had it been lighted up by half a dozen giant Hollywood premier spotlight lanterns. Then, he sticks his cheap rifle out of this sun drenched illuminated window and pulls the trigger which makes a shot sound so loud the entire plaza area and hundreds of bystanders and dozens of police and other security are rocked by it's concussion. Many immediately turn their heads in the direction of the TXSBD. Even workers inside the building hear and feel this first "BOOM!" If that isn't the most attention drawing action ... what is? Then, two more loud shots. By this time many are looking directly at the upper floor windows. How Oswald ( again if it was him ) could be so stupid in his "here I am" shooting feat action and not think of it's ridiculously obvious consequences is beyond logic. Unless, like many have speculated, it was a purposeful action to draw all eyes on his location...and away from other more rationally hidden shooter ones? Oswald took so many more logical planning precautions when he took one pot shot at Walker. At night. Hidden from sight. A good one shot only running away escape plan. Still, using city buses to get to and from Walker's residence is not what one would call a highly sophisticated assassination plan.

Thank you M. Fuller for sharing that thoughtful essay.

Not one mention of this 60th anniversary of the JFKA on CNN's national news webpage. None I could find. Think I'll see of it's the same thing on ABC, CBS, NBC, etc.

Wow...look at that massive crowd! All to get a simple glimpse of John and Jackie Kennedy! And in a city that was usually considered to be JFK hating? Like I have stated many times...JFK and Jackie had transcended into a realm of celebrity adoration and adulation unheard of in our history, and most probably modern worldwide history. JFK's enemies saw what was happening with JFK's unprecedented popularity. It had reached idolization status, domestically and abroad. They knew JFK was going to be reelected. And that RFK could very well have ridden JFK's mind blowing world popularity to become elected president himself after JFK's 8 years. A dynastic Kennedy family reign. JFK's adversaries could not let that scenario become reality. Only JFK's pre-1964 election death could stop it from happening.

From today's NPR news site: Hill had been positioned on the running board of the follow-up car, just behind the presidential limousine. As the motorcade progressed through Dealey Plaza, however, excitement turned to horror as Hill heard a loud noise over his right shoulder. "I didn't think at first it was a gunshot," Hill recalled. "I thought it was a firecracker or something. But when I saw the president's reaction, I knew that was not normal. I mean, he threw his hands to his throat and started to fall to his left." Hill immediately ran from the follow-up car and onto the back of the presidential limousine. As he climbed on board, there was another shot, striking the president in the head. After this shot, the first lady climbed onto the trunk to meet Hill, who guided her back into the vehicle. Hill used his body as a shield as the presidential limousine sped toward the hospital. "I thought, 'This wound is not survivable,'" Hill recalled. "I didn't think he had a chance." In the aftermath, Hill was riddled with guilt. In his book Five Days in November, he recalls accompanying Jacqueline Kennedy, who was still wearing her bloodstained suit, to Johnson's swearing-in aboard Air Force One. "As I look at her face, streaked with tears, her eyes so hollow and lifeless, a wave of guilt and shame washes over me," Hill recalls in the book. "How did I let this happen to her?" The state funeral of President John F. Kennedy on Nov. 25, 1963. Abbie Rowe/White House Photographs. John F. Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum, Boston The feeling didn't pass in the coming years. Hill finished his stint with Jacqueline Kennedy in 1964 and went on to serve three more presidents afterward, but he still struggled with guilt after the assassination. "We received no counseling at all," Hill said of the Secret Service. "There was no PTSD in those days." By 1975, Hill had developed ongoing health issues related to his emotional state after the assassination. He failed his annual physical examination and was told that the Secret Service would have to retire him. Hill was 43 years old. "It was all aftermath of the Kennedy assassination," Hill recalled. "I then went into an extreme depressed state at my home in Virginia. I lived on two packs of cigarettes a day and a bottle of scotch. That's how I slept." Hill recalls "how did I let this happen to her (Jackie.)" Yes, but how about ..."let this happen to the president himself?" The article writer says Jackie leaped out on the trunk to "meet Hill." ??? Didn't look that way to me and a million others. Looked like she was retrieving something. Hill always makes it a point in seemingly every interview I've ever viewed of him, to specifically mention how many people were hanging out of high building windows and stationing themselves on roof tops and stairwells throughout the motorcade through downtown Dallas that day. I always sensed he felt a need to do so to dissipate the criticism his agency and all the other JFK protection security agencies were heavily confronted with in no one even looking up at the open windows of the TXSBD at least for the few minutes before and during JFK's limo drive underneath. I wonder why Hill was the only SS agent that was so wracked by guilt regards the JFK shooting that his life fell completely apart the next 12 years. There were 7 or 8 other SS agents within feet of JFK when his head was brutally blown apart. As well as two Dallas Motorcycle cops also just feet away and who were actually sprayed with JFK's exploding brain matter and blood. Hill's marriage fell apart. He became a drinker. He had to be let go. If any SS agents should have had such guilt and remorse about JFK it would have been limo driver Bill Greer and agent Roy Kellerman. Kellerman didn't even attempt to crawl over the passenger seat separation bar to cover JFK. Greer slowed the limo almost to a stop. Allowing the shooter a slower moving target opportunity.

Bingo CS! The much more important agenda was the war. The domestic stuff was an image promoting PR thing and LBJ/JFKA guilt talk misdirection. I watched a documentary on Al Capone last week. An excellent over-view of his life from birth to death. Capone tried to create a "Robin Hood" image to counter his ruthless "Scar Face" blood shedding public enemy number 1 one. He was making BILLIONS of dollars a year back during prohibition times. Blood money for sure. Fact is however, he did donate quite large amounts of monies to legitimate charities. Soup lines during the Depression. Paying the medical bills of victims of unfortunate accidents or maladies, etc. I see LBJ's "Great Society" program in a similar vein. It's a very cynical take I know, but LBJ was that capable of such a disingenuous charade to prop up his criminally suspect past image. In my opinion anyways.

Respectfully...I just can't even get close to these speculations about Frazier being more involved than he ever stated. For so many factual real-life reasons. Whoever helped Buell Wesley get a car sure picked a doozy. Junk yard special. A battery that died so often, Frazier would have to keep his car engine running even after arriving to his destination to prevent coming back to a non-starting car? I don't know how sputtering, back firing and black smoke exhaust spewing Frazier's rickety old heap truly may have been but this was not the kind of car a seriously involved highest importance plot member would dare to be seen in. My guess is Oswald himself may have been a little embarrassed waiting for Frazier to get it going or asking for a jump. And then chugging down the highway with finger crossing praying to make it back to Linnie May's place next to Ruth Paine's house. Frazier's bedding situation was just as poor. Linnie's living room couch. He was one of eight people crammed into her smallish two bedroom one bath home. Again, even a little plot member cash might have gotten Frazier a sleeping situation better than a total lack of privacy living room couch...no? Frazier seemed to struggle to just explain himself to the press in a way that didn't sound too unsophisticated. To me, his lack of sophistication indicated a simple country boy upbringing moral innocence. Frazier was just too much like this to be a part of such a history changing plot. I do think Wesley Frazier eventually came to enjoy the publicity surrounding his Lee Harvey Oswald connection. He spoke often to groups and writers and documentarians. I don't think he made much money doing so, however. I kind of wish I could have met and worked with ole Buell at the time Oswald did. Friendly and thoughtfully respectful as all get out. And generous with what little he had. Never once asked Lee Oswald for a nickel to help cover his gas costs. Patiently taught Lee the ropes of book sorting and organizing in their shared duty position at the TXSBD. Probably the nicest co-worker Lee Oswald ever came across.

Fascinating as always. I was 12 and participating in an outdoor physical education class at our Pacific Grove, California middle school. It was a sunny but very cool mid-morning when a fellow student by the name of John Norman ran to our class on the basketball courts from the main school buildings across the street. He ran up to our teachers and told them the news. He then turned and shouted to us kids..."the presidents been shot!" We were immediately told to go back to the gym and get dressed ( no showers ) and return to our home rooms. Everybody...students and teachers were in shock. A few lady teachers were crying. Soon enough we were sent home. I walked quickly down Forest Ave. to our downtown a half mile away. As I walked through in the direction of my home another mile and a half away, I remembered it was eerily silent except for some loud TV broadcasting coming through open doors of businesses. Hardly a car came through downtown. I then ran down toward the beach and turned to run down the railroad tracks past the twenty year long deserted and dilapidated train station. My mom was sitting in shock watching the news on TV when I reached home. She didn't even respond to my rushing in. I ran upstairs and turned on the old, grainy black and white TV at the end of my brothers and my bed and stayed glued to it the next 48 hours. I watched Jack Ruby blow Oswald's guts out "LIVE" on TV Sunday morning. Ruby did this right inside the Dallas Police Department building! I leaped off my bed when Ruby shot Oswald and unconsciously started shouting to myself "NO WAY!", "NO WAY!", "NO WAY" over and over. Even as a 12 year old, my young gut told me there was something very, very wrong with this picture. Impossibly wrong. I never felt any different after 60 years.

NPR is going to have a special guest interview today in a tribute to the JFKA anniversary day. The guest ...Clint Hill. Wouldn't it be grand to have a major news media outlet replay the LBJ/Walter Cronkite "others may have been involved" interview as their main JFKA tribute news piece?

Who's the tall blue shirted man standing next to the short Billy Lovelady?

I find Leslie Sharp's deep research findings incredibly interesting and important. Even though much of it is way beyond my limited study and awareness knowledge. Her intricate important character dot connecting reminds me of the intrepid researcher Mae Brussell, who I "tried" to follow and keep up with in her time. I have lived most of entire life just miles from Mae Brussell's home here in the Monterey/Carmel Central Coast area of California. She regularly broadcast live on one of our local Carmel radio stations back in the late sixties. Her presentations were packed with so many nefarious connection findings and she spoke in such a fast pace-no break way ( almost manic at times ) it was hard to keep up with her. Yet, Brussell exposed so many nefarious and hidden power group connections that turned out to be absolutely true. She helped bring out the truth of how our highest levels of power and influence worked and flourished and were ominously connected and how those connections remained hidden for decades. I came to understand that these highest power groups and individuals ( back then and still today ) are connected way more than the average person could even imagine. And they are "masters" at keeping it all secret. Even on city levels, I would wonder how big planning decisions got created, passed in city council meetings and implemented that seemed to benefit the wealthier citizens much more than the middle class and lower ones. With a little research you always discovered a connected cabal of the usual suspects - wealthy businessmen, bankers, construction companies, city council members and even mayors that made it all happen... and almost always in back room deals. It's like a secret club of monied power people. On the level of highest power decision making... there is always this same type of secret, behind the scenes groups and individuals pulling the strings. Unlocking and exposing those unholy alliance pacts and their secret behind the scenes power broker deals is just about the only way to fully understand the who, what and whys of their self-serving and sometimes criminal doings. Thank you Ms. Leslie Sharp!

Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy was the most glamorously attractive and adulated woman in modern history ... world wide! Her natural born physical beauty was goddess like and her rigorous formal education and high society upbring just added to her aura of sophisticated glamour. She spoke 3 languages ( maybe Italian too?) was extremely well read and a good writer and editor. She appreciated and was drawn to and promoted the finer artistic aspects of culture. Ballet, great artists and writers, theater, music, architecture and interior design, high fashion style ...you name it. JFK had class already, but his beautiful and sophisticated young wife Jackie took their combined union glamour to unheard of worldwide adulation and adoration heights. Half the world was in love with them. And this epically romantic true-life story, all just instantly "blinked out" in Dallas, Texas at 12:30 pm on 11,22,1963. A tragedy truly of Greek and Shakespearean proportion. One that will be studied and talked about for a thousand years.

Great photo above. Look at the excitement of the crowd! Electric! Men going Ga Ga over gorgeous Jackie. Women going Ga Ga over the tan, fit and handsome JFK. And this is in supposed JFK hating Texas? Clint Hill inches behind Jackie as always. Jack Valenti reveling in the exciting moment. Gee look at little ole me! I get to be part of this ... Wowie Zowie! LBJ left straggling several people behind. No one is even looking at him. Smiling restrainably but seething with jealously over the movie star reception reaction of the crowd JFK and Jackie were receiving I am sure. I've mentioned many times how JFK and Jackie ( especially together ) simply created frenzies whenever and wherever they went into the public arena. Their popularity had transcended into uncharted territories. Huge crowds so electrically charged it was beyond anything any President and first lady had ever elicited. Look again at that JFK/Jackie greeting crowd photo above to see this. People screaming, cheering, laughing, even crying! The next morning at Love Field, some almost near fainting with orgasmic facial expressions upon actually touching JFK's and Jackie's hands! And LBJ had to see all this frenzied celebrity JFK/Jackie adulation close up time and time again. Nobody in those adulation crowds even noticed the big bellied, elephant eared, hang dog faced VP. Nobody cheered and screamed and cried upon his presence. Like hundreds of other photos of super charged crowds going bananas over JFK and Jackie, the above one actually electrically charges you even today. JFK's "Camelot" image may have been exaggerated at times, but there was never ever any exaggeration needed to describe the almost mass hysteria adulation reaction by electrified screaming cheering crowds who came out to see JFK and Jackie in person...both here in the USA and all over the world as well. JFK ( and Jackie ) were "by far" the most admired and adored and attractive U.S. President and first lady in our history. It was all simply an extraordinary phenomena. And when JFK was struck down, that inspiring excitement time instantly disappeared like a sublime feel good dream upon awakening. We were left with LBJ. No more screaming with excited joy and attraction crowd events. JFK and Jackie K. truly were a wonderful, beautifully attractive and inspiring phenomena. To this day, we've never seen anything close to the worldwide adoration and celebrity fame and excitement their presence generated.

I am in the camp that LBJ was 10X more corrupt than any official biography ever comes close to touching on. That interview of him by Walter Cronkite where LBJ himself says directly that "I nor anyone else" can ever be absolutely sure others weren't involved with Oswald is one of the most important statements ever made about the JFKA and the Warren Report final finding in my common sense opinion. To this day I can't believe that recorded statement by LBJ hasn't been given the historical importance it deserves. That LBJ statement is simply a history changing bomb shell one! What more does any person who ever wanted to know the truth about the JFKA need to hear ( from LBJ's own lips! ) to know that there was so much more to the Oswald story than simply a lone nut case who just got lucky on 11,22,1963 and with the cheapest rifle available makes bullseye target hits that 90+ % of the most highly trained marksmen in the country could not duplicate even under no stress conditions? Dr. Crenshaw's late life recounting of the call to him by LBJ while Oswald was being treated for his wound, was corroborated and backed up by the hospital telephone switchboard operator who connected LBJ to the surgery room.

Exactly. Mockingbird still exist. FOX NEWS? Their credibility is totally shot after the last two years. Nobody takes them seriously anymore.

Please explain the video posted above where we see a policeman at the top of the TXSBD front entrance steps having some physical contact with a person who then appears to be falling down? Who was the falling down man and what caused him to do so?