Pete Mellor

Very interesting NYT article. Bob Dylan sounds like he's on the ball. My copy of 'Rough & Rowdy Ways' is in the post.

Cheers Doug. That American University speech sounds better every time I hear it. Such eloquence from a POTUS has never been equalled since. It's a long way down from '63 to 2020!

Bleak House?

MMF does not show on Amazon, however it does list Stanley Marks' book 'Coup d'état: November 22nd 1963' mentioned in the K&K's article... however this too is unavailable.

Jim, I thought your thread was an interesting idea so I did a search through some of my reading material. The information on the Kefauver link came out of Michael Collins Piper's 'Final Judgment'. I have this weird tome on Kindle & it comes with no Notes or references. Take that for what its worth. Don't want to lead you down any dark alleys. Kutner's papers are archived at the Hoover Institute, if they are searchable on line. He was a co-founder of Amnesty International & his bio doesn't fit with the Ruby character, or the charges of him in Piper's book.

I only caught up with this thread today, and watched 'Unacknowledged' on Netflix. The Shakespeare quote from Hamlet I do believe...'there are more things under heaven Horatio' etc. The Drake equation provides a fair figure for intelligent life in our universe. (Or maybe multiverse.) One of my interests is astronomy, whenever the U.K. skies clear of clouds! As for U.F.O.'s until I get proof personally, I keep an open mind. I remember reading of Betty & Barney Hill's abduction back in my teens. I do except that sightings are made by professional and sound people, like airline & military pilots etc., but I've never seen a video that clearly shows proof of some extra-terrestrial craft. Saucer shapes and lights in the sky don't give me definitive convictions either way, although I have nothing to refute all the stories & testimonies. If I have scepticism it comes from the distances of space. Our nearest star to our sun is Alpha Centauri (which is actually 3 stars) & they are over four light years away & no planets that reside in a favourable orbit to set up life, at least the last that I recall. I think the nearest possible system is into double figures of light years. So I ask myself why these clinging ons are travelling all this way in such numbers to play cat & mouse across our skies? My jury votes 'not proven'.

Purely by co-incidence I've just read Hyman's 'Burying the Lead' & p236 which states Miami Chief of Police Walter Headley Jr., quoting from Jesse Curry's book 'JFK Assassination File' ….."Eyewitnesses who reported seeing Dallas police interview two men on the 6th floor of the depository, turned over to the FBI and no statement about the second man or mention of an accomplice was in the FBI report." Assume these witnesses had better eyesight than Howard Brennan!

Interesting. I know next to nothing re:- Jonestown, but I do dig into other assassinations & intel links to these cases. Regarding Lennon's killing, it smells to me. British lawyer Fenton Bresler published 'Who Killed John Lennon' in late 80's which highlighted many similarities with Mark Chapman & other 'patsy' figures. Other writers have also had suspicions of CIA links to doorman Jose Perdomo. The Stones drug bust in '67 involved intel agent Richard Schneidermann, over from the States to supply a wide range of drugs & set up the arrival of cops. Schneidermann was the only person to walk away free, & flew back to California. He was reportedly CIA. Jimi Hendrix's manager was Military intel, & Jimi's demise is full of rumour & doubt. The 'accidental' death of Diana Spencer in Paris also stinks of intel involvement & the official story is as wild as the JFK case.

Did you ask your friend how he knew the alleged assassin hid out in that cabin?

Ron, that Washington Post article states data that is identical to what is the condition in U.K. & I think the per capita death count/population figure is higher here in U.K. than the States!

The antimalarial drug touted by Donald Trump as a treatment for the coronavirus has been linked to an increased risk of death in patients, according to the first major study into its use. The president called hydroxychloroquine a “game changer” in the fight against the virus in March, and has promoted its use ever since, despite no evidence that it had any positive effect for patients infected with Covid-19. Earlier this week he claimed that he had been taking the drug himself. “I get a lot of tremendously positive news on the hydroxy,” Mr Trump said, adding: “What do you have to lose?” But a new study of 96,000 hospitalised coronavirus patients around the world found there was a 34 perc ent increase in the risk of mortality in those given the drug. It also led to a 137 per cent increased risk of serious heart arrhythmias. “Our large-scale, international, real-world analysis supports the absence of a clinical benefit of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine and points to potential harm in hospitalised patients with COVID-19,” said the authors of the study, which was published in the Lancet medical journal.

Sounds good to me too! This Saturday DPUK have Gary Severson on Skype talking about Richard Case Nagell & members can log into from home....in these times of lockdown it keeps our regular meetings going. I'll notify Bart & he can arrange the link at some point in the future. No rush if the publication is spring 2021.

Sounds like a large body of work there Vince! I'll second Joe's comments above. Sometime in the future could we arrange a Skype link to DPUK so our membership can get an interview with yourself and Bart to discuss the book?

John, purely coincidence that Kittrell was mentioned in this thread & Bart posted a link on DPUK's FB page, to the blog where the Fortean article came from. An attempt to discredit her? No idea. As an amateur astronomer, I don't usually go for UFO's. However a year back I read 'UFO's, E.T.'s & Alien Abductions : A Scientist Looks at the Evidence' by John Crosbie Donderi. Interesting book, but the JFK case is as 'out of this world' as I can handle!

Jim, the special that I saw on U.K. tv recently pumping out this RFK did it BS also included an accusation that Peter Lawford in later years confirmed Bobby's involvement. Does McGovern deal with this in 'Murder Orthodoxies'? And then ask yourself, why are there so many specials on this case? And so few on the JFK and RFK cases? In U.K. if any programmes on these cases are broadcast, they are screened away from the main BBC & main independent channels & mostly appear on a wacko channel that often puts out progs on aliens, Hitler in S. America and assorted conspiracy stuff. Actually, I've only caught a couple on Monroe & RFK...JFK gets the majority. However, in all cases the content is shallow, ridiculous! 'Mortal Error-The Shot that killed JFK' type themes. Second, this case, which is not a conspiracy, gets media time, while the JFK and RFK cases, which were conspiracies, get little or none. I see it all as part of Wilford's 'Mighty Wurlitzer'

After the JFK assassination the next month, Kittrell took on her own investigation, eventually deciding that this second Oswald was actually Curtis Laverne Crafoord. She would tell her story to the FBI in 1966, and again to the House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1978. Her story would then become grist for alternative theories of Kennedy’s assassination. (She wrote a letter to “Time” magazine, published 15 December 1975: “To think that you still believe the Warren Report. I do look forward to a future issue featuring the tooth-fairy story.”)Laura Kittrell never seems to have married. She outlived all of her immediate family. William Henderson II, her father, died in 1966. Her mother passed on 1988. Louise, her sister, died four years later, in 1992. She seems to have still been in Dallas as late as that year, but at some point presumably moved to Taylor county.She died there on 10 June 2000. Laura F. Kittrell was 82. She was buried at Sparkman Hillcrest Memorial Park, where her mother and father were also interred.********Kittrell’s most public skepticism of the official position came after the death of the Fortean Society, and so cannot really be used as evidence of her beliefs when she joined. But there are other reasons to suspect that she was disinclined to believe government pronouncements on controversial matters—even if (or maybe because) she worked for the government and seems to have shared at least some of her father’s progressive political inclinations.Kittrell’s Fortean career, based on the evidence I have found, was quite short, and mostly opaque. The entirety of it is composed of two mentions in Doubt from the mid- to late-1950s. I do not know if she ever read Fort, or what drew her to the Fortean Society, nor what kept here there, though a few suggestions can be inferred from her contributions to Thayer’s Fortean magazine.Kittrell’s first mention came in Doubt 47 (January 1955). The reference, though, is a generic one—Kittrell is listed in a paragraph of acknowledgments—that may have had something to do with anti-fluoridation reports (the credits were appended to a column on the topic) but also may not have. It is impossible from this mention to even be sure that Thayer referred to Laura F. Kittrell, because only the surname was included, though subsequent evidence strongly supports the idea that Laura had sent in the material. That most likely being the case, she was thus a member as early as the end of 1954. I am not sure what would have brought her to the Fortean Society at this time, though her father’s business may have provided an impetus: since she seems to have been somehow involved in the clipping service, she may have noted a mention to the Fortean Society in a news report.That speculation is based on her second (and final) appearance in Doubt, issue 56 (March 1958). Thayer devoted this “Doubt” to Sputnik—he thought the evidence for them spurious at best—in the course of which he mentioned “phenomena” in Levelland, Texas, on the night of Saturday, 2 November 1957. Thayer did not disclose the nature of the phenomena, but contemporaneous newspapers report a fiery “thing” that flashed through the sky—as reported by several witnesses—and seemed to land on a highway, though it was not found. It was described as a 200-foot long egg of fire. This was a month after Sputnik was launched. A number of people said the ball was a space ship. Later investigations by the government, though, suggested there were fewer witnesses than originally reported, the stories were inconsistent, and the most likely explanation was ball lightning.Thayer then went on: “In addition to the fine coverage from the national press by faithful members everywhere, the Society had the unique advantage of a member almost on the spot. That is MFS Laura Kittrell who owns a news clipping service in Dallas and heads a local UFO group. From her we received maps of the township and annotated diagrams of the events and interviews with eyewitnesses. In a more nearly normal issue this would make a feature story. Alas—we can only relate it to the Sputs—for they have taken over.” He then noted that the sighting occurred the very day Sputnik II was supposed to have been launched, and it reportedly passed over Moscow at the same time the events in Levelland unfolded. Similar phenomena then occurred in White Sands, N.M., the next day. Thayer’s exact point here is obscure to me—he wanted to cast aspersions on the Sputnik reporting and leave open other possibilities, which he did, but I am not clear what exactly he thought was going on. At any rate, though, we do learn some more about Kittrell. It is this mention that allowed me to connect the name to Laura Frances—the Dallas home and the relationship with the clipping bureau provided the necessary evidence (though there is some room for my being wrong). She remained a member. And she displayed the same interest in investigating a matter for herself that had driven her to Guam when her brother disappeared and had her looking into the identity of the second Oswald a few years later. This was, no doubt, a Fortean trait, the need to get into the weeds and make discoveries on her own, not taking the word of officials.The report also shows that she was interested in flying saucers—interested enough to head up her own group. This may not be exactly correct: Thayer also had her owning the news clipping bureau that was actually owned by her father. But it does suggest she was devoted to the subject. I obviously do not know when she took up UFOs, nor her opinion on them, nor, for that matter, to which group she belonged: my searches have come up empty. But it does explain how she might have learned about the Fortean Society, If she was collecting clippings on flying saucers for her own use, she likely came across the name of the Society. And if flying saucers were the main focus of her unorthodox views—or her only one—then she might not have heard about the Society until the early 1950s, which could account for the timing of her appearance in “Doubt.” (There was a mention of the Fortean Society in relation to flying saucers in a Vermont paper, August 1952, and several similar mentions across the country in 1951.)There’s also evidence here for speculating about why she did not appear in “Doubt” again. To be sure, there are plenty of possibilities: she was too busy; the Society folded not long after, when Thayer died in August 1959; she sent in material, but it was not used. But there’s also the possibility that she was irritated by the short-shrift Thayer gave what seems to have been a great deal of work. By his own admission, it should have been a feature, but he chose not to give the material its due. He blames Sputnik, but there is no reason he could not have devoted space to all of her Fortean investigation in a subsequent issue. It is exactly the kind of detailed work he wanted from Forteans, and yet, when he got it, chose to sit on it—a reflection, perhaps, of his souring on Forteanism.Whatever the case, it was the last mention of Kittrell in the pages of “Doubt.” Soon enough, she would have other conspiracies to investigate.

Great to shoot this down in flames! In Part II you write: Carmen also had her version of what happened between the president and Monroe after the famous 1962 rally in Madison Square Garden, where Monroe sang Happy Birthday to the president. As McGovern shows, this is also wrong since Monroe’s time before, during, and afterwards is all accounted for by neutral witnesses. She was escorted to the event by her former father-in-law and she kindly met with her New York fan club after the fund raiser. Randy Taraborrelli agrees that no such encounter happened. (McGovern, pp. 217-18)- In James Reston's 'Second Best Thing' published just recently, his essay documents in text as well as Cecil Stoughton's photographs MM attending the private party after the Madison Sq. Garden event at 33 East Sixty Ninth St., (still in that dress.) The party was attended by Jimmy Durante, Ella Fitzgerald, Shirley MacLaine, Harry Belafonte & Diahann Carroll among others. Marilyn departed the party by limo at around 2:00 am. Her driver took her to Brooklyn, where she dropped off Isadore Miller & went home alone to her thirteenth floor apartment at 444 East Fifty-Seventh St, arriving about 4:00 am.

I checked on Amazon all the Ian Griggs books that I put my name against & the Ruby book was by far the most expensive at £25. Have to wait & see if I get it. If other DPUK members also put their name on it, we have a bidding war!

Pam, I haven't read this book 'Dylan in America' but I don't see Bob Dylan having any sort of communist leaning in the early 60's, or any other traditional political party agenda for that matter. As for Suze Rotolo being a passionate advocate of communism, I don't think so. Her parents maybe back in the 1950's, but they were of Italian descent & Italy had strong Commie party membership, particularly after WWII. (Don't know when the family arrived in U.S.) The generation in question were largely rejecting the values and politics of their parents. But Suze Rotolo was an artist & more influenced by the 'boho' Greenwich Village beat generation. Circles that both Dylan & Rotolo moved in at that time. Whatever was under their bed, don't think there was anything red. Maybe some blues!

O.K. Larry, when I hear back I'll let you know the score.

Agree Ray. Would look forward to watching this, pretty amazing after all this time that they assembled seven members of the medical staff. Although there are a few names that I have not come across before.

Ian Griggs' remaining book collection has been offered to DPUK members & Willis & Demaris' 'Jack Ruby' is on that list. It's one of 10 that I have put my name against, just for the cost of postage. Not expecting 'fireworks', but just to add to my collection.

Well, I was feeling sad and feeling’ blue,I didn’t know what in the world I was gonna do. Them Communists they was comin' around, they was in the air, they was on the ground. They wouldn't give me no peace!Well, I finally started thinking straight, when I ran out of things to investigate. Couldn't imagine doing anything else,so now I’m sitting home investigating myself! Hope I don’t find out anything hmm, great God!