Jump to content

Who was QJ/WIN


Tim Gratz
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

David,

 

This is probably the wrong thread for this, but look at page 70 of the document you posted:

 

employees, agents or informants:

Laverne Crafard and James Earl Ray. my, my, my.

 

Steve Thomas

I saw that. Is Laverne Larry’s real name? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 189
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

6 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Laverne Crafard

From Spartacus:

 In October, 1963, Ruby employed Crafard as a handyman at the Carousel Club. The day after the assassination of John F. Kennedy Crafard had a meeting in a Dallas garage with Ruby and George Senator. Later that day Crafard left Dallas and went to stay with his sister in Michigan. Mark Lane argues in Rush to Judgment (1966) that Crafard was "one of Ruby's closest companions during the weeks preceding the assassination" and claims that his flight from Dallas following the assassination was highly suspicious.

Joachim Joetsen:

While I cannot go into the matter at any length here I shall briefly outline some of the points of evidence which I have developed in Oswald: The Truth. In the first place, the Warren Report itself notes that 'Ruth Paine testified that Crafard's photograph bears a strong resemblance to Oswald.'

Secondly, the Report recounts an episode in which a Dallas electronics salesman, Robert K. Patterson, and two of his associates expressed the belief that they had seen Ruby in the company of Oswald, enter their store. The Commission however, established that Ruby's companion on this occasion was Larry Crafard.

Thirdly, about half a dozen people testified, or told the police or the FBI, that they had seen a person resembling Oswald at the Carousel Club, while the real Lee Harvey Oswald, according to the Commission, never set foot there

Gaeton Fonzi:

 Commission chairman Earl Warren himself, with then Representative Gerald Ford at his side, was interviewing a barman, Curtis LaVerne Crafard. Crafard had worked at Jack Ruby's Carousel Club before he was seized by FBI men as he was hightailing it out of town the day after the assassination, having told someone, "They are not going to pin this on me!"

In the interview, Warren asks Craford what he did before he was a bartender.

"I was a Master sniper in the Marine Corps," Craford answered.*

The next question that Warren immediately asked was: "What kind of entertainment did they have at the club?"

"my, my, my", Steve, is one way to say it. Holy S@#! is another.

Edited by Robert Harper
add few words
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

David,

 

This is probably the wrong thread for this, but look at page 70 of the document you posted:

 

employees, agents or informants:

Laverne Crafard and James Earl Ray. my, my, my.

 

Steve Thomas

Oh My! I can’t wait to read this one!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Uh, just for context, is this not just a list of items including names that the HSCA investigators compiled to make requests against and to look for information...like a huge shopping list.  Please correct if I'm mistaken - you might also want to double check the very first time Ray shows up with his Raoul story....

Not that I'm trying to spoil anybody's fun but it would be good for the thread to elaborate on what this document really is..

 

Edited by Larry Hancock
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Robert Harper said:

From Spartacus:

 In October, 1963, Ruby employed Crafard as a handyman at the Carousel Club. The day after the assassination of John F. Kennedy Crafard had a meeting in a Dallas garage with Ruby and George Senator. Later that day Crafard left Dallas and went to stay with his sister in Michigan. Mark Lane argues in Rush to Judgment (1966) that Crafard was "one of Ruby's closest companions during the weeks preceding the assassination" and claims that his flight from Dallas following the assassination was highly suspicious.

Joachim Joetsen:

While I cannot go into the matter at any length here I shall briefly outline some of the points of evidence which I have developed in Oswald: The Truth. In the first place, the Warren Report itself notes that 'Ruth Paine testified that Crafard's photograph bears a strong resemblance to Oswald.'

Secondly, the Report recounts an episode in which a Dallas electronics salesman, Robert K. Patterson, and two of his associates expressed the belief that they had seen Ruby in the company of Oswald, enter their store. The Commission however, established that Ruby's companion on this occasion was Larry Crafard.

Thirdly, about half a dozen people testified, or told the police or the FBI, that they had seen a person resembling Oswald at the Carousel Club, while the real Lee Harvey Oswald, according to the Commission, never set foot there

Gaeton Fonzi:

 Commission chairman Earl Warren himself, with then Representative Gerald Ford at his side, was interviewing a barman, Curtis LaVerne Crafard. Crafard had worked at Jack Ruby's Carousel Club before he was seized by FBI men as he was hightailing it out of town the day after the assassination, having told someone, "They are not going to pin this on me!"

In the interview, Warren asks Craford what he did before he was a bartender.

"I was a Master sniper in the Marine Corps," Craford answered.*

The next question that Warren immediately asked was: "What kind of entertainment did they have at the club?"

"my, my, my", Steve, is one way to say it. Holy S@#! is another.

Robert (and Steve) - this is astounding. I was aware of his resemblance to Oswald, but thanks Robert for the specific links. That his name comes up in a document about CIA assets and cryptonyms is really new to me. And a Marine sniper? I guess I’ll have to reconsider my view of Oswald being at the Carousel Club. Garrison thought he had been seen there in the company of a dark complected man with a scar over his left eye (David Morales?). So now we have the possibility that Morales and Crafard were seen there,and that Crafard was a CIA asset. 

 

32 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Uh, just for context, is this not just a list of items including names that the HSCA investigators compiled to make requests against and to look for information...like a huge shopping list.  Please correct if I'm mistaken - you might also want to double check the very first time Files tried to pedal his story....

Not that I'm trying to spoil anybody's fun but it would be good for the thread to elaborate on what this document really is..

 

I agree. I looked through the doc start to finish twice. It appears to be questions HSCA was asking, and partial answers from CIA. is that correct? So who wrote the names Crafard and Ray? You’re not spoiling anyone’s fun btw. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

David,

 

This is probably the wrong thread for this, but look at page 70 of the document you posted:

 

employees, agents or informants:

Laverne Crafard and James Earl Ray. my, my, my.

 

Steve Thomas

That was fun, but, the document reads: "were above employees agents or informants".

One could be forced to read that as... "Were the above employees agents, or informants?", given that an agent is in employee and an informant is not. (I make no claim to really knowing what I am talking about here.

One could also read that the writer was asking if the individuals were any of the three.

Edited by Michael Clark
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I wouldn't want to do that.  I would say Craford would be a name I would expect to be pursued by any new investigation so that makes sense to me, it would be something from as early as the WC.   The James Earl Ray name would have come out of MLK and Ray's remarks about Raoul - that was a story the HSCA did investigate so no real big surprise there.  What is probably more amazing is given the number of names and crypts on that list that they were able to make any progress at all....just think of yourself starting an investigation with that list, a limited number of experienced staff, none of the data resources we have today, a deadline - and knowing you will get no cooperation from the CIA or FBI....whew. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

That was fun, but, the document reads: "were above employees agents or informants".

One could be forced to read that as... "Were the above employees agents, or informants?", given that an agent is in employee and an informant is not. (I make no claim to really knowing what I am talking about here.

One could also read that the writer was asking if the individuals were any of the three.

Michael,

 

You're absolutely right, but I asked myself; even if the note at the bottom of that page is in the form of a question, why they would appear at all in a list of names that included F.Lee Chrisman and Charles Siragusa?

 

Steve Thomas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/9/2018 at 1:54 AM, Steve Thomas said:

Michael,

 

You're absolutely right, but I asked myself; even if the note at the bottom of that page is in the form of a question, why they would appear at all in a list of names that included F.Lee Chrisman and Charles Siragusa?

 

Steve Thomas

It’s very interesting and suggestive. 

Question for anyone - when we recover documents, such as the ones naming QJWIN as Jose Marie Andre Mankel, can we completely trust the veracity of the document? I’ve read all the available docs here and elsewhere, but I’ve yet to find a detailed bio, or any good photos. Yet I’ve read the essays naming him before documents were released, by authors who thought they had solved the mystery by looking at biographical info. Anyone know where there is more detail on who he was?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Helms recalls Executive Action (ZRRIFLE) as "a tiny little thing" (52) which nonetheless had as one of its purposes a capability to assassinate foreign leaders. (54) He remembered that there was a single asset who was a capability in being... If you needed somebody to carry out murder I guess you had a man who might be prepared to carry it out.  (50) I finally phased it out, HELMS said. (51) HELMS said that the "special basis" for handling ZRRIFLE funds was for bookkeeping reasons (53) to avoid the normal clearance procedures. (54) II·

TURNOVER OF SYNDICATE CONTACT TO HARVEY I.G. REPORT, 1967: Project ZRRIFLE continued on a separate course from the CIA-ROSELLI poison pill assassination plot against CASTRO until November 15, 1961: HARVEY has a note that on that date he discussed with BISSELL the application of the ZRRIFLE program to Cuba. HARVEY says that BISSELL instructed him to take over EDWARDS' contact with the criminal syndicate and thereafter to run the operation against CASTRO.n (39)

http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/docid-32423557.pdf

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...