Strongest piece of evidence

[David Williams]

I would like to ask members of this forum for the one piece of evidence that convinces them of a conspiracy or non-conspiracy, just one piece per person please. Thanks.

I think the strongest proof of conspiracy is the Odio incident.

Dave

[Todd W. Vaughan]

I would like to ask members of this forum for the one piece of evidence that convinces them of a conspiracy or non-conspiracy, just one piece per person please. Thanks.

I think the strongest proof of conspiracy is the Odio incident.

Dave

I find the Nagell information very intriguing.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Todd W. Vaughan

[Michael Hogan]

I would like to ask members of this forum for the one piece of evidence that convinces them of a conspiracy or non-conspiracy, just one piece per person please. Thanks.

I think the strongest proof of conspiracy is the Odio incident.

Dave

For me it was Oswald's behavior and demeanor while in custody up until the time of his death.

There is so much more; it's difficult to pick out one thing.

[Todd W. Vaughan]

I would like to ask members of this forum for the one piece of evidence that convinces them of a conspiracy or non-conspiracy, just one piece per person please. Thanks.

I think the strongest proof of conspiracy is the Odio incident.

Dave

I find the Nagell information very intriguing.

I agree. There was so much more that he could have told, and what we have been able to decipher has been dead on.

Keep in mind that Nagell said LHO was involved in the plot "up to his ears".

[Michael Hogan]

I would like to ask members of this forum for the one piece of evidence that convinces them of a conspiracy or non-conspiracy, just one piece per person please. Thanks.

I think the strongest proof of conspiracy is the Odio incident.

Dave

For me it was Oswald's behavior and demeanor while in custody up until the time of his death.

There is so much more; it's difficult to pick out one thing.

I know David said to limit to one piece of evidence, but this is an adjunct to what I wrote above: The swift and

unusual apprehension of Oswald, the bizarre and inexplicable Tippit killing, and the unnatural haste of local and

federal officials to declare Oswald "the only one."

[Herb White]

The statements of Gordon Arnold preceding the release of the images of Badgeman in Moorman.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Herb White

[Dean Hagerman]

Badgeman was the strongest piece when I first started back in the late 80s

Now its the altered Zapruder film

[Jim Root]

FBI Agent J P Hosty's third note (identifing where Oswald was working prior to the design of the motorcade route)not being given a WC Exhibit Number. People in government knew where Oswald was working but the WC evidently did not see fit to follow up on exactly who had access to this information.....I believe this information was an essential piece of information needed for the crime to have occured.

Jim Root

[Cliff Varnell]

I would like to ask members of this forum for the one piece of evidence that convinces them of a conspiracy or non-conspiracy, just one piece per person please. Thanks.

I think the strongest proof of conspiracy is the Odio incident.

Dave

The bullet hole in JFK's shirt, and the rest of the corroborating evidence of a T3 back wound.

During their various debates in the 60's all Vincent Salandria or Gaeton Fonzi had to do was

point to the location of the holes in the back of JFK's shirt and jacket and challenge anyone

to get those holes to line up with the always-changing SBT in-shoot.

The son of a tailor, Salandria knows that it is impossible. All LNers and many CTs think otherwise,

and prefer to pretend that the immutable laws of clothing design don't count.

A tucked in custom-made dress shirt only moves a fraction of an inch given normal body movement. All

of JFK's movements in the limo were casual, or as per the term of art in clothing design, "normal."

The clothing defects are prima facie evidence of 4+ shots.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Cliff Varnell

[Bernice Moore]

The Medical Evidence..b

[Steve Duffy]

Hi David, for me, it's the Mexico city impostor, and the Kostikov call.

[William Kelly]

For me the strongest piece of evidence that Oswald is innocent of being the Sixth Floor Sniper is the alleged encouter in the Second Floor lunchroom between Officer Marion Baker, Roy Truly and Oswald within a minute and a half after the last shot.

http://educationforu...opic=15429&st=0

While the official story has Oswald hiding the rifle and descending the stairs and Baker seeing Oswald enter through the lunchroom's south door window, a more detailed analysis, as the Secret Service did when they tried to Re-enact the assassination, shows that Baker saw Oswald through a closed door.

As Baker relates, he saw Oswald through the door window moving from the right to the left in the vestibule entering the lunchroom.

Since the door had an automatic closing device, and if the door was open or ajar even a few inches, the rectangular window naturally gets smaller as seen from the position where Baker was by the stairs. If Oswald had gone through that door, the door would probably have still been open a little bit, and Oswald couldn't have been seen by Baker through the window.

In addition, if Oswald had gone through that door, Roy Truly, who was ahead of Baker on the way up the stairs, most certainly would have seen Oswald and an open door, but he didn't.

In addition, if Oswald had gone down those stairs from the Sixth floor to the Second floor, he would have had to encouter Jack Dougherty on the fifth floor by the stairs, and the two secretaries who descended from the fourth floor to the first floor, but they didn't encounter anyone.

There is another south side door to the vestibule of the Second floor lunchroom, that leads to the same location, and it is this south door that Oswald had used to enter the vestibule so that he could be seen walking past the west door window, as Baker saw him.

Since Baker and Truly encountered Oswald in the lunchroom less than a minute and a half after the last shot, Oswald couldn't have fired that shot, deposited the rifle and made it down the stairs past Dougherty, the two secretaries and Truly without any of them seeing him, and for Baker to see him in the vestibule through that west door window, he had to have entered it from the south door, coming from the offices, the rest room or the first floor steps, the same way he left a few minutes later.

The Secret Service stoped their reenactment at that point, with the last photo of the reenactment photo sequence being the photos of the door as seen from Baker's position.

They recognized the significance of this as well since they called Truly back for a second round of questioning but only asked him one question - did that door have an automatic closing device? Yes it did.

And the door was closed when Baker saw Oswald walking in from the south door, not the west door, so he didn't come down those stairs and wasn't the Sixth Floor Sniper.

Further support for this is provided by Ms. Mooneyham, the court clerk from across the street who saw a man in the Sixth Floor window four to five minutes after the last shot - and that person, who was apparently moving boxes around, was certainly not Oswald, and if he wasn't the sniper, had to have seen him and was most certainly an accomplice.

I don't know who the Sixth Floor Sniper was, but if you believe Baker, Truly and Oswald and the circumstances they say they met, then it wasn't Oswald.

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but it better be good.

Well that's my two cents.

BK

http://jfkcountercou...-copa-2010.html

Edited December 9, 2010 by William Kelly

[David Von Pein]

For me the strongest piece of evidence that Oswald is innocent of being the Sixth Floor Sniper is the alleged encouter in the Second Floor lunchroom between Officer Marion Baker, Roy Truly and Oswald within a minute and a half after the last shot.

But, Bill, it was proven beyond all doubt that Oswald's 90-second trip could positively be done. SS Agent John Howlett made it in just 74 seconds--and while doing it at merely a "fast walk", not a "run" or "trot". If Oswald had been running or trotting, he obviously would have easily beat Howlett's best time of 74 seconds.

Why this subject is even in doubt is my question?

Do you really think that both of Howlett's re-created times from the 6th to the 2nd floors were fakes or frauds in some manner? If you don't believe that, then isn't it quite clear that Oswald COULD HAVE MADE IT to the lunchroom in time to meet Baker?

The remainder of your objections are merely minor, picky points that you can't possibly go anywhere with -- unless, of course, you actually want to say that Marrion Baker just MADE UP his story about seeing Oswald through the vestibule glass.

You don't really want to go down the "BAKER WAS A xxxx AND MADE IT ALL UP" path....do you Bill?

Edited December 9, 2010 by David Von Pein

[William Kelly]

For me the strongest piece of evidence that Oswald is innocent of being the Sixth Floor Sniper is the alleged encouter in the Second Floor lunchroom between Officer Marion Baker, Roy Truly and Oswald within a minute and a half after the last shot.

But, Bill, it was proven beyond all doubt that Oswald's 90-second trip could positively be done. SS Agent John Howlett made it in just 74 seconds--and while doing it at merely a "fast walk", not a "run" or "trot". If Oswald had been running or trotting, he obviously would have easily beat Howlett's best time of 74 seconds.

Why this subject is even in doubt is my question?

Do you really think that both of Howlett's re-created times from the 6th to the 2nd floors were fakes or frauds in some manner? If you don't believe that, then isn't it quite clear that Oswald COULD HAVE MADE IT to the lunchroom in time to meet Baker?

He could have but he didn't.

It isn't a matter of timing, it is a question of whether Oswald went though that door just ahead of Baker. If Baker saw him through that window, he didn't go through that door.

If he had gone thorugh that door, Truly would have seen him and didn't.

I'm not accusing anyone of being frauds or fakes. I'm saying they could have flown down those stairs and if they did they would have encountered Dougherty and the two secretaries and Truly would have seen him.

I don't say that Oswald couldn't have made it down in less than a minute, but then he would have had to go through that door, make a right hand turn, go through the south door window and then turn around and double back in order for Baker to see him in the vestibule through that window.

I'm not saying he didn't do this, but he would have been out of breath and wasn't.

In addition, since Oswald is now with Baker and Truly on the Second floor, who is that that Mooneyman saw in the Sixth Floor window a minute or two later?

You want to make it a race, you can, but its not a race since you can't get past Dougherty, the secretaries, and how come Truly didn't see Oswald going through that door if he was ahead of Baker?

That's because Oswald didn't go through that door, but Baker saw him through a closed door as he entered through the south door, coming from where he said he was,and he leaving the same way.

It's not a race, it's physics. If Baker saw Oswald through the west door window, Oswald didn't go in that door because of the physics and perspective of the window in the door.

You can't alter physics and perspective.

BK

Edited December 9, 2010 by William Kelly

[David Andrews]

I would like to ask members of this forum for the one piece of evidence that convinces them of a conspiracy or non-conspiracy, just one piece per person please. Thanks.

I think the strongest proof of conspiracy is the Odio incident.

Dave

I find the Nagell information very intriguing.

I agree. There was so much more that he could have told, and what we have been able to decipher has been dead on.

Keep in mind that Nagell said LHO was involved in the plot "up to his ears".

I don't doubt that Oswald was (or thought he was) involved. But Oz could also have thought that he had infiltrated the plot...who knows, and that is the problem.

I'm reading and re-reading as much as I can on Nagell right now, hoping I can define for myself a "portrait" of Oswald's assassination involvement that is consonant with events verifiable elsewhere.