Gil Jesus Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 In watching video of the motorcade from Love Field to Dealey Plaza and beyond, one thing sticks out like a sore thumb: The distance between the lead car and the Presidential limo and the distance between the SS follow-up car "Queen Mary " and the convertible carrying VP Johnson. In watching this video it appears that the JFK limo and the follow-up car are isolated, it looks like they're on an island all by themselves with nothing else around them. It makes me wonder if Herschel Jacks, Johnson's driver, knew or suspected that something was going to happen somewhere along the motorcade route and kept his distance from the limo as a result. I really get an eerie feeling watching this video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) Not to distract from that thought, but I've always wanted to see footage, if any exists, of the stops that the motorcade made during heavy crowds in the Dallas streets before Dealey - the places where JFK stood up in the car, and allegedly once stepped out of the limo. Where were the following vehicles then? What did the Queen Mary SS men do? If the limo had stopped and JFK stood up or got out to shake hands, you'd think there'd have been still photos snapped, at least. Edited October 7, 2011 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Didn't someone along the route try to warn JFK or say something to him, but was kept away from the limo? I don't remember the details (if there were any), but I would love to see video of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) Didn't someone along the route try to warn JFK or say something to him, but was kept away from the limo? I don't remember the details (if there were any), but I would love to see video of that. Ron, that aspect of the motorcade procession, if I am not mistaken was related to the "Dead Secret Service Agent" affair, according to material published in the Continuing Inquiry/Penn Jones, the allegation was that somewhere in the middle of downtown someone tried to approach the motorcade, saying "I must tell you," or, words to that effect. If this really happened, it is one of the best kept secrets of the assassination. As much as I respect Penn Jones, I think he was fed bogus information, although I could never prove it. Remember, Jack Zangetty? I spent a lot of time looking into that and I decided it was one of biggest waste's of time I ever embarked upon. Having said all of that, there are definitely a lot of mysteries associated with the assassination, yet to be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. For instance the "vanishing pool of blood" near the TSBD, recently I read something somewhere, where now it is being alleged there were "two" pools of blood.... I can't go into that sort of thing as a researcher, because you have so many people who you can't decide, or at least I can't, who allege things [outside of deposition testimony] decades later, there is nothing in that which can be satisfactorily resolved, IMO. There are, hopefully elements of truth in certain allegations which can be proven, Roger Craig, who, incidentally received a lot of emotional support from Penn Jones, before Craig committed suicide, alleged that he was instructed to "take no part whatsoever in the security of that motorcade." see When They Kill A President In my view a factoid like that is hard to definitively prove, especially if you believe that false testimony exists in the voluminous documents that exist, WC, HSCA et cetera. But, William Manchester in Death of A President, pages 32-33 wrote ......Conceivably the FBI and the Secret Service did do all that could have been done. Possibly Curry's department met its responsibilities by deciding to end supervision of Friday's crowd at Houston and Main, a block short of the ambush....... Even that stipulation is something of a conundrum, by virtue of the word supervision, which implies no responsibility, also Craig was in the Sheriff's Department, not the Police Department per se....... One more or less overlooked area of the assassination is the situation described by Geneva Hines as below..... Mr. Ball. On the 22nd of November 1963, did you know that there was to be a motorcade or parade come by your building? Miss HINE. Oh, yes, sir. Mr. Ball. How did 'you find that out? Miss HINE. Sir, I don't remember. I probably heard over the news but I cannot remember. Mr. Ball. You were just aware of the fact? Miss HINE. Yes; I knew it and the girls were discussing it in the office that morning. Many of them, probably six, had not seen the President close. You see, I had seen him on two different occasions and I had been very close to him and so they were lamenting that they couldn't go out so I spoke up and said "I will be glad to answer the telephone so you girls may go out and see the motorcade" and I bad previously answered the telephone when we were in the other building before we moved in this building, so they were delighted and I thought nothing about it. Mr. Ball. Did they all go out? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; everyone went out. Mr. BALL. Was there anyone left in the office part of the building on that second floor office? Miss HINE. Only Mr. Williams and myself and he stayed with me because he was working on his desk until he thought that the motorcade was about there. Mr. Ball. Then he went out? Miss HINE. When he thought it was about there he said "I think I will go out for 5 minutes." Mr. Ball. What is his name? Miss HINE. Otis N. Williams. Mr. Ball. He works in the office, too? Miss HINE. Yes. Mr. Ball. Did you have to change your desk over to another desk? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; to the middle desk on the front row. Mr. Ball. Was there a switchboard? Miss HINE. No, sir; we have a telephone with three incoming lines, then we have the warehouse line and we have an intercom system. Mr. Ball. You don't have a switchboard? Miss HINE. Not now; we did in the other building. Mr. Ball. Were you alone then at this time? Miss HINE. Yes. Mr. Ball. Did you stay at your desk? Miss HINE. Yes, sir: I was alone until the lights all went out and the phones became dead because the motorcade was coming near us and no one was calling so I got up and thought I could see it from the east window in our office. Mr. Ball. Did you go to the window? Miss HINE. Yes, sir. Mr. Ball. Did you look out? Miss HINE. Yes, sir. Mr. Ball. What did you see? Miss HINE. I saw the escort car come first up the middle of Houston Street. Mr. Ball. Going north on Houston Street? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; going north on Houston Street. I saw it turn left and I saw the President's car coming and I saw the President and saw him waving his hand in greeting up in the air and I saw his wife and I saw him turn the corner and after he turned the corner I looked and I saw the next car coming Just at the instant I saw the next car coming up was when I heard the shots. Mr. Ball. How many did you hear? Miss HINE. Three. Mr. Ball. Could you tell where the shots were coming from? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they came from inside the building. Mr. Ball. How do you know that? Miss HINE. Because the building vibrated from the result of the explosion coming in. Mr. Ball. It appeared to you that the shots came from the building? Mr. Ball. Miss HINE. Yes, sir. Mr. Ball. Did you know they were shots at the time? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they sounded almost like cannon shots they were so terrific. Mr. Ball. That is when you were at the window, is that right? Miss HINE Yes, sir; that is when I was at the window, because the next car, you see, was coming up and turning and I looked. Of course I looked when I heard the shots. I just stood there and saw people running to the east up Elm Street. I saw people running; I saw people falling down, you know, lying down on the sidewalk. Mr. Ball. That was on Houston Street? Miss HINE. No, sir; Elm. Mr. Ball. You could see could you see any part of Elm? Miss HINE. East, yes, sir. Mr. Ball. You could see east on Elm? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I could see east on Elm. I saw them run across east on Elm away from where his car had gone and my first thought was if I could only see what happened, so I went out our front door into the foyer. Mr. Ball. You mean the front door to the office? Miss HINE. Yes, sir. Mr. Ball. That opens on--- Miss HINE. The foyer, little hall, and--- Mr. Ball. Steps lead down? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; but there is a door before the steps and the elevator is to my left and I went past the hall that goes to my right and I knocked on the door of Lyons and Carnahan; that's a publishing company. Mr. Ball. What did you do then? Miss HINE. I tried the door, sir, and it was locked and I couldn't get in and I called, "Me, please let me in," because she's the girl that had that office, Mrs. Lee Watley, and she didn't answer. I don't know if she was there or not, then I left her door. I retraced my steps back to where the hall turns to my left and went down it to Southwestern Publishing Co.'s door and I tried their door and the reason for this was because those windows face out. Mr. Ball. On to Elm? Miss HINE. Yes; and on to the triple underpass. Mr. Ball. I See. Miss HINE. And there was a girl in there talking on the telephone and I could hear her but she didn't answer the door. Mr. Ball. Was the door locked? Miss HINE. Yes, sir. Mr. Ball. That was which company? Miss HINE. Southwestern Publishing Co. Mr. Ball. Did you call to her? Miss HINE. I called and called and shook the door and she didn't answer me because she was talking on the telephone; I could hear her. They have a little curtain up and I could see her form through the curtains. I could see her talking and I knew that's what she was doing and then I turned and went through the back hall and came through the back door. Mr. Ball. Of your office, the second floor office? Miss HINE. Yes; and I went straight up to the desk because the telephones were beginning to wink; outside calls were beginning to come in. Mr. Ball. Did they come in rapidly? Miss HINE They did come in rapidly. Mr. Ball. When you came back in did you see Mrs. Reid? Miss HINE. No, sir; I don't believe there was a soul in the office when I came back in right then. From WC Documents it is hard to determine who this was, but John Armstrong asserts it is Mrs. [John L.] Carol Hughes... Reid is seemingly eliminated because she testified to Oswald drinking a Coke, and she was a TSBD supervisor, to boot.... below is Carol Hughes affidavit Mrs. John L. "Carol" Hughes, I, Mrs. John L. [Carol] Hughes make the following voluntary statement to Alfred D. Neely who has identified himself as a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I am of the Caucasian race, 27 years of age and reside at 510 Glenfield Street, Garland, Texas. I am employed by the South-Western Publishing Co., Room 203 Texas School Book Depository, 411 Elm Street, Dallas, Texas. On November 22, 1963, I went to south window near my desk to watch the Presidential Motorcade passing along at Houston and Elm Streets. I was standing looking out this window when President John F. Kennedy was shot. I was alone in the office as all the other people had gone to the street to watch the Motorcade pass. I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at that time. I do not know Oswald but I had seen him in the building several times prior to this day. I do not recall seeing any strangers in the building on November 22, 1963. I remained in my office until about 1:30 P.M. when I left for the day and went home. Room 203 is listed in a JFK Document as, apparently shared between Gloria Calvery Karan Hicks Carol Hughes Carol Reed Karen Westbrook see CD 707 It should come as no surprise, she wasn't called to testify before the Warren Commission, let alone being confronted about Geneva Hines allegations, other than whats in her affidavit..... I have been considering the possibility if she could have been the female, with the Dallas policeman who is seen in the film walking away from Dealey Plaza, as practically everyone else is running towards the Depository area and the knoll area, although it seems doubtful, on the other hand just because, she said she left at 1:30, doesen't automatically prove that is when she did leave, as Richard Gilbride's book seems to demolish some "factual" testimony about who was doing what in the period before and after the assassination..... Edited October 8, 2011 by Robert Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen Collins Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Didn't someone along the route try to warn JFK or say something to him, but was kept away from the limo? I don't remember the details (if there were any), but I would love to see video of that. I read that too. I don't think there's any footage of it. I remember the young man went up to the limo saying, "I have to tell you something." And what I read is that the Secret Service was all over this guy. Again, this is coming from Penn Jones? He sure put out a lot of false things. This could have been planned to show that the SS were protecting Kennedy. Kathy C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Jesus Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Not to distract from that thought, but I've always wanted to see footage, if any exists, of the stops that the motorcade made during heavy crowds in the Dallas streets before Dealey - the places where JFK stood up in the car, and allegedly once stepped out of the limo. Where were the following vehicles then? What did the Queen Mary SS men do? If the limo had stopped and JFK stood up or got out to shake hands, you'd think there'd have been still photos snapped, at least. My guess is that all of that may be on the video taken by Dave Powers in the followup car. Before he died, Powers made sure that his motorcade video would never be made public. I'll bet it has some interesting stuff on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Not to distract from that thought, but I've always wanted to see footage, if any exists, of the stops that the motorcade made during heavy crowds in the Dallas streets before Dealey - the places where JFK stood up in the car, and allegedly once stepped out of the limo. Where were the following vehicles then? What did the Queen Mary SS men do? If the limo had stopped and JFK stood up or got out to shake hands, you'd think there'd have been still photos snapped, at least. My guess is that all of that may be on the video taken by Dave Powers in the followup car. Before he died, Powers made sure that his motorcade video would never be made public. I'll bet it has some interesting stuff on it. Gil, I think that Powers' video has been made public. It ends just before they get to DP. I'm pretty sure I've seen it. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Kinaski Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 There is version around. But it is rather a compilation with very small cuts....all in all 20 sec. If I remember correctly--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 There is version around. But it is rather a compilation with very small cuts....all in all 20 sec. If I remember correctly--- The Powers film, I believe, is at Kennedy Library and has been shown a few times, as I've seen it, but it is only shown on special occasions. Gary Mack has confirmed that it has been shown before, but is not available for use. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) Thanks, everybody, for your answers. Edited October 12, 2011 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Griffin Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 There is version around. But it is rather a compilation with very small cuts....all in all 20 sec. If I remember correctly--- Karl, You may be thinking of a compilation of a few snippets of the Powers' Film that can be viewed on the Lancer website. http://www.jfklancer.com/Powers.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 If and when the film becomes a part of the Kennedy Archives, will we not then have a right to view it in its entirety? I wonder if it has ever been molested over the years and if the public will get a chance to view it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Jesus Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Gil, I think that Powers' video has been made public. It ends just before they get to DP. I'm pretty sure I've seen it. BK I believe you are correct. The info I posted was from an old History Channel program that was inaccurate. You'd think that if they were posting HISTORY, they'd at least do some research into it before broadcasting it. Thank You for the correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Gil, I think that Powers' video has been made public. It ends just before they get to DP. I'm pretty sure I've seen it. BK I believe you are correct. The info I posted was from an old History Channel program that was inaccurate. You'd think that if they were posting HISTORY, they'd at least do some research into it before broadcasting it. Thank You for the correction. At 7 seconds of that spliced together film.. the limo is stopped and people are right up beside JFK... he's shaking hands... You also notice how the SS follow-up car NEVER gets more than a few feet from the back of the limo... except in the few seconds just before z313.... just sayin Cheers Gil.... you've done such excellent work - thanks DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 A bit further....b http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EItOc3vIGYE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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