Blair Dobson Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 do LN'rs think the Z film is altered? that's nuts. You lost me after "Do LNers think......" all indications so far point to "no" DJ LMAO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 David, My point with the diagram is that even after alteration, Boswell describes the results of a shot from the front... I was adding to your post: Chris Newton, on 26 Nov 2013 - 5:41 PM, said: In Vinces thread on Sam Kinney, the ex- SS agent states there was blood and brains all over the windshield of "Lucy", the followup car. More evidence of a shot from the front. LN'ers will argue that Lucy drove through the cloud of gore that's been removed from the extant Zapruder film, of course. Not sure what this has to do with Oswald leaving the TSBD but.... And I agree this has nothing to do with Oswald leaving the TSBD and I don't want to Hijack this thread any further... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 After several weeks of canvassing hardline Lone Nut Theory believers over on Duncan's forum for credible alternatives to Oswald as Prayer Man, the results are as follows: They've got nothing. They've thrown the world and his brother at that doorway, and not a single suggestion has come close to holding up under close inspection. It started with Steve Barber taking one look at Prayer Man and identifying him confidently as Billy Lovelady. And that about set the standard intellectually for the WC defenders' subsequent suggestions. ** Meanwhile over on alt.assassination.jfk, Lone Nut propagandist John McAdams has blocked discussion of the topic--while happily facilitating endless discussion of Ralph Cinque's barmy Altgens-Doorman claims. Prayer Man is evidently too toxic for Professor Factoid. ** As of this, the 50th anniversary of President Kennedy's assassination, there remains only one viable candidate for Prayer Man: Bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Maybe this can shed some light.... The one area I did not colorize is the area that confuses me the most... That arm SEEMS to belong to Lovelady yet is crossing in FRONT of the black man who is standing at least a few feet to his right. Can anyone offer a color for that area that makes sense... and there is any chance "prayer man" is somehow captured there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) It's MY understanding--correct or not--that Prayer Man is BEHIND Lovelady, and hidden from view due to the angle of the Altgens photo. Prayer Man is shown to be in the "absolute" corner of the step area, which is not visible in the Altgens photos. Edited November 27, 2013 by Mark Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Didn't someone point out, a while back, that the arm actually belongs to the black man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Not that I've seen Bob.... if so, he did an disappearing act with his hand and fingers..... Also curious the distinction between Lovelady's pants and the man in the suit... Download the image and try out a few options... I've tried, I've blown this up to 10 times the size to see if there are any clues... Here is the same image without Lovelady colorized... sure LOOKS like his arm... but that's not possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Not that I've seen Bob.... if so, he did an disappearing act with his hand and fingers..... Also curious the distinction between Lovelady's pants and the man in the suit... Download the image and try out a few options... I've tried, I've blown this up to 10 times the size to see if there are any clues... Here is the same image without Lovelady colorized... sure LOOKS like his arm... but that's not possible I think I am mistaken, Dave. I wish I could find the thread that talked about this. My memory tells me it was not the arm of the black guy but the guy just to the left of him. He is grey in your photo and you can just see his head. As you say, though, where are the fingertips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hocking Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Didn't someone point out, a while back, that the arm actually belongs to the black man? This may be what you are referring to, Robert. It is contained in a letter from Richard E. Sprague to Beverly Brunson. "What you think is Lovelady's left arm is actually the arm of a negro waving in front of Lovelady. Not the negro in the doorway just in front of him, but another one, standing on the sidewalk. The man to Lovelady's left is shading his eyes with his hands as were three other people standing in the doorway. This is revealed by the Hughes film, one frame of which was in Life last November. None of these people move their hands perceptibly or throw anything." http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Brunson%20Beverly/Item%2005.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I'm working on some different options - yet if you look closely, that "raised arm" seems to NOT be connected to anything.... Yet I know that light and angles can make things look very different from what they are... I will post what I can figure out DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 *bump* I nominate this thread for "PINNED" status. Do I hear a seconder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Haley Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 It helps to see other photos from different angles to have a clearer perspective where everybody is. While this frame from the Weigman film isn't exactly the same moment, the President's car has just gone past, a couple of ladies seem to be reacting and a man is looking back over his shoulder obviously distracted by something behind him. Clearly Prayer Man wouldn't be seen from Altgens position I think the only part of the black man's body visible from Altgen's position would be his head. His neck is obscured by the hair of another person standing further along Elm St which also makes it impossible to actually see if Lovelady's arm is crossing in front of the black man. Lovelady is too far away from the black man for that to happen anyway. Whoever Prayer Man is, he didn't see the President get shot and wouldn't have been immediately aware of what had happened. If it is Oswald, his mind must have begun racing as things started to dawn on him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blair Dobson Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 (edited) and funny, only one person is looking towards the tsbd. one might think with all the gunfire supposedly going off above them.... thread jack over.. Edited November 29, 2013 by Blair Dobson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Blair, actually if one could project that fellows view it might be towards the DalTex. I once did a quick head count of the people looking up and back at the time of the shooting and more were looking back to the DalTex than up to the top of the TSBD. Certainly people were looking to both as if they heard noise further to the east of the TSBD. In regard to this thread though, what had just happened was unclear to a great many people on the scene, especially those east on the street towards the TSBD, only the folks down by the head shot immediately knew what was going on. The fact that it was a real attack on the President and not just firecrackers or somebody shooting off a gun for show or in protest took some time to jell....I clearly recall hearing early news reports that just talked about "shots fired". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blair Dobson Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Blair, actually if one could project that fellows view it might be towards the DalTex. I once did a quick head count of the people looking up and back at the time of the shooting and more were looking back to the DalTex than up to the top of the TSBD. Certainly people were looking to both as if they heard noise further to the east of the TSBD. In regard to this thread though, what had just happened was unclear to a great many people on the scene, especially those east on the street towards the TSBD, only the folks down by the head shot immediately knew what was going on. The fact that it was a real attack on the President and not just firecrackers or somebody shooting off a gun for show or in protest took some time to jell....I clearly recall hearing early news reports that just talked about "shots fired". good point! another thing I have always thought interesting is the lack of people coming forward to say they saw Oswald leave the area. His exit seems to be strung together by a few unreliable witnesses. people can remember curtain rods and packed lunches but not when and how he left. But again, we can thank the bumbling fools at the DPD for leaving all the doors of Dealey flapping in the wind that day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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