Allen Dulles and his secret behind Kennedy's assassintion

[Scott Kaiser]

Gee, I think I just solved the case, JFK ordered Dulles to assassinate him, we can all now go home and watch American Gladiators, that's right folks, the DCI never gave orders, he only took them, and his boss Kennedy ordered Dulles to whack him, the case is now solved folks, shutdown the forums, "case closed" Gerald Leo Posner would have to agree here!

[Gene Kelly]

And before the week is up, we will be at "Ocean's Eleven" ... and I want to be Joey Bishop (a Philly guy)

[James DiEugenio]

Again, this makes me wonder about who actually read Talbot's book.

Its pretty clear in the book that Talbot believes that Dulles worked for and with the so called Power Elite. I mean for God's sakes he actually writes about C., Wright Mills, the guy who coined the term

And there is a lot of evidence that Dulles actually was in bed with these guys, also called the Eastern Establishment. I mean, Dulles and his brother were on the CFR Board for something over a combined 40 years.

And Talbot does not really say Dulles masterminded the plot. He likes to use the phrase that he served as the CEO of the plot.

I mean God knows he was in perfect position to do so as he had connections going downward and going upward.

That is going down to the Cuban exiles, and to the Power Elite.

The latter were important because you had to have the media on your side immediately. And it seems they did e.g. Jock Whitney at the New York Herald Tribune. Who first put out the story of Oswald as the social misfit.

This guy was worth hundreds of millions, but he decided to go to work as a copy boy the night of the assassination.

When JFK became president, Whitney was ambassador to England. Kennedy fired him immediately with what is probably the tersest termination note in history. It read as follows:

Jock,

Pack.

Jack

Jock Whitney remembered that note.

Edited January 27, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Brian Schmidt]

I think Jim makes an important point in the previous post. And the CEO of the plot can mean a range of things in terms of the tactical, ground level planning of the event. For example, David Lifton - whose encounter with Dulles Lifton references in the book - has said he eventually came to the conclusion that Allen Dulles was the CEO of Dallas. He has also said, however, that he thought Dulles was too old and fragile to come up with the specific plan, but believed he instigated phone calls and brought interests together.

[Scott Kaiser]

Scot:

What you'll get when you read Talbot's book is the fact that Dulles betrayed every President that he ever "served" (and I use that word loosely). From FDR to Truman, and then Eisenhower...up to and including Kennedy. He had his own selfish agenda, and everyone knew it.

Justice Goldberg called him a traitor ... pretty strong words, if you ask me. His mistress (as well as his wife, if she were honest) would likely characterize him as essentially a Nazi, although their nickname for him was the "shark".

In fairness to Talbot, the book is less about who masterminded the JFK hit, and more about the dark sides of Allen Welsh Dulles. As an informed person once told me (when asked his opinion of who did it): "What makes you think that the JFK plot was the worst thing that he ever did?"

Gene

Hi Gene,

That's Scott, with two tt's. now, I'm not saying I'm at all being unfair to Talbot, but, please let me express myself as I do respect others opinions, however, are opinions proof positive? I don't understand what you mean when you say that Dulles undermined every president while he was DCI, or did it take an arrogant young JFK to fire an older man in office which would then have others believing Dulles participated in the assassination? Okay, I get it, Talbot and many of you say Dulles was NOT the mastermind per se, so what do you call him, a participant? Absolutely, that's what I call him, a participant in the cover-up, but nowhere was Dulles involved in the planning of or participation of the assassination itself other then and only the cover up. And, I can say that with certainty.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Scott Kaiser

[Brian Schmidt]

Just curious as to what makes you so certain, Scott, in terms of your own inside knowledge.

[Scott Kaiser]

Just curious as to what makes you so certain, Scott, in terms of your own inside knowledge.

A promise I will make you Brian, if I do not have a publisher for my new material within one year, I will post my entire PDF for free, right here, at this forum first.

[Scott Kaiser]

"He likes to use the phrase that he served as the CEO of the plot."

I'm just spitballing here, but when I was CEO of KIPC, Inc. San Antonio, TX. at our monthly meetings I listened to my field superintendent, also sitting around the table would be my project foremen, everyone had the ability to speak up, integrate a plan of action and execute, how to better the company while increasing profit. As CEO, my job was to listen to what everyone had to say, then make a decision. If Talbot does not really say Dulles "masterminded the plot", but says he served as CEO, I really don't know what the difference is.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Scott Kaiser

[Gene Kelly]

Scott:

Sorry for the spelling error. Believe it or not, my boss's boss's name is Scot (one 't') and it took me the better part of a year to learn to not spell it with two t's. He is pretty sensitive about that. After a few pithy emails from above, and some gentle admonishment, I finally got it straight. Then you come along ... and when I responded to you, the muscle memory went into effect.

Regarding Dulles, I simply find it hard to ignore him. I am simply amazed at a guy who lasted that long in government service (since 1916, for goodness sake). He was a part of the CFR, the power council for a decade. He was in the middle of US foreign relations through two world wars, and into the Cold War. I agree that he probably deferred to the likes of Harriman, McCloy, Rockefeller, and others more senior and powerful. I'd also imagine that a guy like him viewed JFK as an inexperienced upstart.

I have no clue as to whether he lead, followed, inspired, masterminded or executed the plot and murder. Determining his exact role is pure speculation; and, likely indeterminate. But it has his imprimatur all over it (that I'm certain of). Perhaps it was his dedicated followers - the acolytes that worshiped at his intelligence throne (Hunt, Angleton, Harvey, Helms, et al). I do know that whomever orchestrated this hit really knew what they were doing. They were very good and practiced at it. They're smart, and left an impossible trail to follow... very few loose ends. But that is what we're all chasing here, right?

Gene

[Paul Brancato]

Scott - read the book.

[Kirk Gallaway]

I agree that the biggest revelation for me in DCB was how the French Algerian right wing coupe and the attempts on De Gaulle's life and their parallel to the Kennedy assassination. I wonder what was Talbot's source for Dulles's counsel to JFK that 80% of De Gaulle's military had turned against him and his ouster if not assassination was a fait accompli? Did he site that?

Other very interesting things

-2 traitors Dulles and Himmler trying to negotiate the end of WW2!

-Dulles was emboldened by being the first agency to resist Mac Carthy. Interesting!

-Personal :That his wife was having sessions with Carl Jung! That his wife and Mary Bancroft became friends..

-The who's who corporate presence at his funeral.

Yes, Talbot does refer to the power elites and Dulles and his brother's connections to them. The book IMO, is a triumph. The life and times of the spymaster, Allen Dulles is a great focus on the dark side of America's 20th Century Geopolitics. Re: the JFK Assassination, I don't come out of it feeling that satisfied, but I didn't expect to, still sadly it may be as close as we can ever get to at least the plotters. Certainly you come out of it with increased resolve that Dulles is quite the DouCh Bag, and you certainly can't put it past him.

Another interesting tidbit in the book. I thought Michael Paine was in Woods Hole Mass. So he's now in Northern California, at least near where Ruth is. Hmm,

[Scott Kaiser]

"the biggest revelation for me in DCB was how the French Algerian right wing coupe and the attempts on De Gaulle's life"

​I am certain it's a fine book, in-fact, reading Jim's review and what many of you who have already posted regarding your sentiments while doting Mr. Talbot has helped me to understand the author's thoughts better. For example;

​1. The author does not say Dulles is/was the mastermind behind Kennedy's assassination, however, he was the CEO.

2. The author examines Dulles' long and arduous career, and because of his numbers of years served as a [government official] makes him a suspect.

3. The author carefully, demonstrates at just how Dulles has been able to undermine every president since President Harry Truman while making bad and poor decisions of his very own as DCI. However, Dulles does not give orders, he takes them, which leads me to my next question, would those orders have come from his boss, Commander in Chief President Kennedy? I'm sure we'll be able to sort through that later.

4. The author informs us that Dulles continued his journey within the CIA even after his disembarkment on the CIA's sailing ship, which would be in contingent of DCI John McCone, allowing Mr. Dulles to continue to sail away with his colleagues as continued planed plots are being discussed.

5. "the biggest revelation for me in DCB was how the French Algerian right wing coupe and the attempts on De Gaulle's life."

If five is the biggest revelation everyone speaks of, and yet, those who have read the book continue to revert back to; Scott, read the book, yet, we have exposed it's "biggest revelation." May I now ask a question from you, how many here know/knew that Edwin Kaiser not only served in the French Foreign Legion while at war with Algeria from 1957-59, he also returned to the United States in 1960 under a French Visa, mustered out with a pension from France, and received a number of awards while serving under General De Gaulle.

​That chapter of De Gaulle, and the attempts on his life, I am all to familiar with.

In short, I believe it's a fine book, and everyone should read the information dug up within, absorb Jim's review, and digest the authors findings which in turn will help interpret your own thoughts as each will undoubtedly set aside your own enumerations.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Scott Kaiser

[David Andrews]

I think the term "point man" might have served better than "CEO" for Dulles. This better describes his role in his Latin American dealings for United Fruit, for instance.

[Paul Brancato]

Agree with that David. Kaiser hangs on to CEO as if it lessens the possible nature of Dulles' involvement.

[Ron Ecker]

I don't have the book yet, and have a couple of questions.

Since the CIA works for the president (ha ha ha ha), how much if at all was Eisenhower involved in the coups in Guatemala and Iran? (What a favor they did for us by helping overthrow a democratically elected government in Iran.) I remember as a youngster the joke about the Eisenhower Doll. "You wind it up and it doesn't do anything for eight years." Some joke, eh?

Does the book have much to say about Allen's brother John Foster? All I really remember about him was Carol Burnett's song on the Ed Sullivan Show, "I'm in Love with John Foster Dulles." In fact I think it may have made her career. At least we owe him that.