Attorney's file on Roger Stone, LaRouche and Russia influencing the 2016 presidential election

[James DiEugenio]

Robert:

That is something I did not know about.  Thanks for that info.

 

Cory:

 

All true.  But OTOH, I don't see Trump doing much to correct things.  Or as Dave Emory told me, its such a mess its not salvageable.

[Bob Ness]

6 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said:

Is everyone here on Ukrainian time or something, because all of the quick banter and fun arguments seems to happen when I'm sleeping here on the East Coast? (Despite the arguments, this thread is worth keeping because it is has remained civil relative to other forums. My Striped Bass Fishing forum has occasionally devolved into a thread of name calling and physical threats over a lot less controversial subjects. That being said, despite what NJ rules allow, anyone keeping a fish that weighs 30 lbs or more, instead of throwing it back, is helping to destroy the fishery, by taking a breeder out at its prime age and weight. Just because the NJ Fish & Game rules allow you to cook or mount that big of a fish, it does not mean you should. Dammit!)  

There has been plenty written about over the past few hours so I've grabbed one of Cliff's quotes as a catch-all for why most of you don't know what you are talking about.

Trump's behavior was not the central driver of RussiaGate, by any means, nor at any level.

 

Nice post Robert but I diverge with you on your main thesis which to me seems to say Trump's behavior was not the central driver of RussiaGate, by any means, nor at any level.

Trump's behavior, prior to his walking down the elevator and announcing his candidacy, was not all prim and proper and as far as I can tell never has been. I'm willing to listen to anyone who comes to his defense to tell me how his endless contributions to the "Windows and Orphans" fund and his loving husbandry are examples atop the hill of righteousness but that ain't going to happen, I assure you.

This fiasco was bound to happen due to his past associations with Russian "businessmen", fly by night financiers, porn stars, sketchy lawyers and the like plus his unconscionable ethical rudder. I find it hard to believe anyone can't find that on the poster. Those were (is) a pre-existing condition of his candidacy and Republicans in his primary battle made sure everyone knew it. Not Dems, Republicans.

You state many of us don't know what we're talking about but really Cliff and I and some others are talking about Trump, not Hillary. Whether or not HRC and the DNC or anyone else were engaged in hostile political attacks is beside the point. Trumps behavior is what I'm speaking of and HRC's probing and assaults on the man and his character (?) is exactly what he was up against in his primaries, albeit with less arrayed against him.

In short, HRC's action regarding her political adversaries would make use of anything that could be made a political concern for voters. If Trump were a choir boy who stole candy from the store that would have been used. The inescapable conclusion I come to is that Trump is and was a terminally poor choice to head the Republican party and the investigations into his past and current conduct are outcroppings of the inevitable.

Re HRC I only rate her as a better choice because she has the political experience to consolidate the country and the disposition to lead responsibly. Trump, in my view, is constitutionally incapable to forsake his own interests.

[Cliff Varnell]

8 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said:

Is everyone here on Ukrainian time or something, because all of the quick banter and fun arguments seems to happen when I'm sleeping here on the East Coast? (Despite the arguments, this thread is worth keeping because it is has remained civil relative to other forums. My Striped Bass Fishing forum has occasionally devolved into a thread of name calling and physical threats over a lot less controversial subjects. That being said, despite what NJ rules allow, anyone keeping a fish that weighs 30 lbs or more, instead of throwing it back, is helping to destroy the fishery, by taking a breeder out at its prime age and weight. Just because the NJ Fish & Game rules allow you to cook or mount that big of a fish, it does not mean you should. Dammit!)  

There has been plenty written about over the past few hours so I've grabbed one of Cliff's quotes as a catch-all for why most of you don't know what you are talking about.

Trump's behavior was not the central driver of RussiaGate, by any means, nor at any level.

It wasn't Donald Trump who fired James Comey because, in his own words, "the Trump-Russia thing was a made up story"?

That spurred the appointment of the Special Counsel.

That anyone can deny this is gobsmacking.

Who hired Michael Flynn as National Security Advisor?  Without Flynn lying about his conversations with the Russian ambassador there would have been no significant RussiaGate investigation into Trump.  No Flynn, no Jeff Sessions recusal, no firing of Comey.  The Papadopolous/Page/Cohen-in-Prague leads would have fizzled out

Donald Trump brought all of this upon himself, not the mythical "deep state," the MSM, or Hillary Clinton.

Quote

 

 

Hillary was the pre-ordained President. The Fix was in way before Trump became the Republican favorite to win the nomination.ms

The Fix was In, all right.  Republican Voter ID laws and voter roll purge programs like CrossCheck rigged the vote in states like Michigan, Wisconsin and North Carolina.

Republican politicians pick the voters, not the other way around.

The fix was in with the New York office of the FBI when they got ahold of Hillary's e-mails on a sex pervert's computer, checked to see if they were duplicates, then forwarded them to James Comey who announced a re-opening of the e-mail controversy.

The fix was in when the GOP launched 8 investigations into Benghazi, one clown actually bragging about how it undermined Clinton's campaign.

Quote

Hillary and her minions were plotting to take out any potential primary challengers in the Summer of 2015.

As Donna Brazile explains in her book, the HRC Campaign took over the DNC in August 2015. In exchange for lending the nearly broke DNC money to operate their day-to-day operations, HRC acquired effective control of the DNC.

....Brazile wrote that she discovered an agreement that "specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party's finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff."

Note that Brazile discovered the agreement when she took over the DNC in late July 2016. Bernie did not know about the agreement when he was running against HRC in the primaries. He was doomed from the start. So everyone understands, the agreement allowed HRC to siphon off DNC resources (employees, money, voter databases) from her primary challengers, which turned out to be Bernie.

What doomed Bernie was his inability to appeal to people of color.  Hillary got more than 3.5 million more votes from non-whites. 

The DNC had nothing to do with that.

Here's where Bernie went wrong:

How many people color can you find in this video?

I count 6.

Quote

RussiaGate was just an extension of her hubris and duplicity after she had the "effective" nomination as the (D) candidate. (Effective meaning before the official nomination at the convention.So maybe around May?)

...What?  Trump was publicly cozy with Vladimir Putin and that was Hillary's fault?

Quote

She rigged the primaries,

Pure propaganda.

Hillary lost the Dem nomination in 2008 because Barack Obama locked up the non-white vote; Hillary won the Dem nomination in 2016 because she locked up the non-white vote.

Anyone beginning to sense a pattern here?

Quote

with her DNC takeover being the starting mechanism, and she tried to rig the main Election with "RussiaGate", which included more than one component. The main components being the Pee Pee Dossier, the Russia Hacked the DNC Narrative and The Bathroom Email Server Cover-up.

The Russia Hacking Narrative was more of an on-the-fly opportunity, since it allowed the HRC Campaign to try to tie Trump to Russia, along with the Pee Pee Dossier, which was ready when needed. ("Insurance" as Peter Strzok & Lisa Butler Page texted.)

The Pee Dossier didn't come out until after the election.

The Russian hacking story got ZERO coverage over the last two weeks of the campaign.

Quote

For reference, HRC tweeted 7 times about Russia, beginning August 6th, 2016 with this: 

“Seriously, what is going on with Trump and Russia?”

and ending October 31, with this:

"It's time for Trump to answer serious questions about his ties to Russia."

As summarized with this Tweet from no one special in particular.

#HILLARYCLINTON was banking on the dossier to be released in October! So she tweets hints of Russia-
3 tweets in August
3 tweets in September
It never came due to no substantial proof..
2 desperate tweets in October! 

Pissed, her camp pressed on with #FakeNews!#WednesdayWisdom

8 tweets over 3 months!  OMG, whatta load!  How does that compare to 24/7 coverage of Sex Pervert's possession of Hillary's e-mails?

Over the last 11 days of the election there wasn't one minute when cable news wasn't harping on Hill.

Quote

 

The Bathroom Email Server Cover-Up was in process by the Fall of 2015 and curiously, Strzok & Page were leading that effort, mostly by trying to keep Comey out of the loop.

Like I said up top, Hillary was pre-ordained.

She made a lot of promises, and took a lot of money through the Clinton Foundation. A lot more than her ego was at stake if she lost the election.

Fun Facts

• Peter Strzok's father (Pete Sr.) worked for Bell Helicopter in Iran up until the Revolution.
• Pete Jr. grew up in Iran and speaks fluent Farsi.
• Lisa Page's mother was born in Iran.
• Lisa also speaks Farsi.
• It looks like Lisa Page's father worked at Los Alamos.
• Bruce Ohr's father was a Nuclear/ Atomic Energy Scientist at Oak Ridge National Lab.
• Nellie Ohr worked for the CIA. 
• Robert Mueller's Father worked for Dupont and Tugwell Mueller Associates as a broker of precious metals used in Nuclear weapons manufacturing and energy. (ie. platinum, paladium.)
• Robert Mueller was in charge of the FBI raid on Rocky Flats, which was accused of losing uranium, plutonium, etc. 
• The Rocky Flat records remain classified.

None of this has anything to do with Donald Trump driving RussiaGate.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Robert Wheeler said:

 I prefer his "what you see, is what you get public persona" from the duplicitous Hillary persona.

Trump's shtick isn't "duplicitous"??

The guy lies about everything, all the time...You haven't noticed?

[James DiEugenio]

I think there is a point that has not been elucidated yet and it should be.

The reason this report is going up to the AG is that Mueller was appointed by the DOJ, Rod Rosenstein to be specific.

This is the only way this can be done today.  Because, in 1999, congress allowed the Independent Counsel law to expire.

Way back then I wrote for Probe Magazine that I felt this was one of the sub themes of the Ken Starr circus.  Namely to make such an utter mess of the Whitewater inquiry that it would tar and feather any attempt to renew the Independent Counsel law.  Starr succeeded in that objective. The irony being that Bernie Nussbaum, a White House counsel, went to the mat with Clinton on this issue.  He warned him that the GOP would turn this Whitewater inquiry into a partisan sideshow. They would end up appointing some bought and paid for hired gun to do anything to try and impeach him.  

Clinton didn't listen.  His sage advice ignored, Nussbaum resigned.  Later on, Clinton admitted that overruling Nussbaum was probably the biggest mistake he made in the White House.

And that is why Mueller reports to the DOJ.

Edited March 28, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[David G. Healy]

4 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said:

Trump has been in the public eye for 40+ years. His boorish behavior is nothing new to those of us in the NY Media Market. It is certainly acceptable to not vote for the guy if you think his boorish behavior, or constant self promotion, or whatever, are indicative of character floors that should not be allowed in the White House.

I was never much of a fan of him myself, or that style of politicking. On the other hand, I prefer his "what you see, is what you get public persona" from the duplicitous Hillary persona. You will never hear Trump effect an African American accent while speaking to a predominantly black crowd. On the other hand, that is Hillary's shtick.

I can also imagine that Trumps persona, and any character flaws that might be implied, is partially due to a lack of familiarity with a pretty standard New York Stereotype. If you spend enough time in New York, you will run into plenty of loud braggarts like Trump, whether they are successful millionaires or the guy you get your coffee from on the corner. 

Character and persona is important. Hilary's ability to talk out of both sides of her mouth is what made me vote for Trump. Bernie Sanders politics were definitely more to the left of Hillary than my preferences. He does not evoke the type of visceral distrust I have with Hillary and I doubt if it had been him, instead of her, I would not have been as motivated to vote for Trump as enthusiastically as I did.

 

oh brother, spare us...

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, David G. Healy said:

oh brother, spare us...

Well said.

[David G. Healy]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

[...]

And that is why Mueller reports to the DOJ.

For those that don't know, or even care to know: WHO is the report for, Jim?

[James DiEugenio]

Because there is no special prosecutor anymore, and because Mueller did not choose to place charges for collusion or conspiracy, his report on those areas are up to the discretion of the AG as to whether they should be published or not.

If the special prosecutor law was still valid, there would have been no question about it being published.

But since this inquiry was under the DOJ, the AG can exercise his power to either publish the whole thing, bury the whole thing, or publish it with redactions. It also appears that Mueller punted to him on the issue of obstruction of justice.  

BTW, I should add, there is still the Roger Stone case to be adjudicated. But since Mueller had surveillance on him for a long time, I assume he thinks there is nothing there to connect him to Trump about the overall Russia Gate issue.  But that would be up to Barr also.

I imagine there will be so much pressure placed on the DOJ that Barr will have to release as much of the report as he feels he can without violating things like personal privacy, grand jury testimony, and sources and methods.

Edited March 28, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[Ty Carpenter]

10 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Trump's shtick isn't "duplicitous"??

The guy lies about everything, all the time...You haven't noticed?

Could you please provide some examples for those of us that don't notice him lying about everything?

[Paul Bacon]

10 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Trump's shtick isn't "duplicitous"??

The guy lies about everything, all the time...You haven't noticed?

 

15 minutes ago, Ty Carpenter said:

Could you please provide some examples for those of us that don't notice him lying about everything?

Go for it Cliff.  I just don't have the patience.....

[Ty Carpenter]

7 minutes ago, Paul Bacon said:

 

Go for it Cliff.  I just don't have the patience.....

I hear lack of patience is one of the major symptoms of advanced stage TDS.

[Cliff Varnell]

59 minutes ago, Robert Wheeler said:

It has everything to do with driving RussiaGate.

Cliff, assume for a minute you are a member of the Deep State, or the CIA, or a Foreign Intel Service.

You have been participating in various types of treasonous and self enrichment activities over the past 40 years. including; 

• Uranium/Plutonium smuggling (NUMEC, Rocky Flats, Palomares & other Broken Arrows, Uranium One)
• Drug smuggling (Vietnam, Central America, Afghanistan.)
• Foreign and Domestic leader assassinations (JFK, RFK, MLK, DeGualle, Reagan, etc.)
• False Flags (Operation Northwoods, Boston Marathon, Las Vegas)
• Human Trafficking & Organ Harvesting (Dubai Sheikhs, Brunei Sultans, Haiti Orphanages, Syrian Refugees.)
• Human Compromise (Little St. James, Sedona Beach House, Wexner Mansion, St. Charles Ave. Honeypot.)

You have never had to worry about getting busted because either a Bush or a Clinton has been in charge of the entire criminal effort.

One day in November 2016 you wake up and discover that your bosses have been fired.

Not only that, your new boss says he is going to fire everyone else who engaged in criminal activity at the direction of their former bosses the Bushs and Clintons, including you.

Obviously Trump has to go.

Russiagate was the insurance policy.

Robert, your claim that Donald Trump is some kind of warrior against the "deep state" is pure fantasy.

Just ask John Bolton and Elliott Abrams.

[Cliff Varnell]

2 hours ago, Ty Carpenter said:

Could you please provide some examples for those of us that don't notice him lying about everything?

You didn't notice that Trump claimed the Mueller report was a "complete exoneration" when the report explicitly stated it was not an exoneration?

You didn't notice that Trump claimed Democrats were behind the Mueller investigation even though it was Republican Rod Rosenstein who appointed Republican Robert Mueller after Trump fired Republican James Comey?

I guess you weren't paying attention during the campaign when Trump said he had no business dealings with Russia?  Big fat lie.

Millions of illegal voters?  Big Lie.  The GOP has a "great health care plan"?  Big Lie.  High crime among immigrants?  Big Lie.

I could go on and on and on.

Trump has a tell -- you know he's lying because his lips are moving.

[Ty Carpenter]

4 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

You didn't notice that Trump claimed the Mueller report was a "complete exoneration" when the report explicitly stated it was not an exoneration?

You didn't notice that Trump claimed Democrats were behind the Mueller investigation even though it was Republican Rod Rosenstein who appointed Republican Robert Mueller after Trump fired Republican James Comey?

I guess you weren't paying attention during the campaign when Trump said he had no business dealings with Russia?  Big fat lie.

Millions of illegal voters?  Big Lie.  The GOP has a "great health care plan"?  Big Lie.  High crime among immigrants?  Big Lie.

I could go on and on and on.

Trump has a tell -- you know he's lying because his lips are moving.

It is a complete exoneration of the reason for the investigation, Russian collusion. What does there is no evidence of collusion mean?

Democrats largely populated the investigation.

Did he do any deals in Russia? At one point they were talking about a deal but that never went through. To do business with someone, you actually have to make a deal. 

Who does have a great healthcare plan that doesn't bankrupt us?

High crime among immigrants has always meant illegal immigrants not all immigrants. Illegal immigrants by definition are committing a crime the minute they illegally cross our border.