The Finger Finally Points to Pentagon Chief Lemnitzer

[Michael Clark]

On 9/11/2017 at 4:06 PM, Lance Payette said:

Well, I don't know ... I'm no Operation Northwoods expert, although I did read the Wikipedia article and sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.  Certainly what was proposed was at a level of Dr. Strangelove lunacy.  Once the plan was vetoed by JFK, how much of a stretch would it have been for someone to suggest "Hey, you know what would be the ultimate Operation Northwoods event?"  Certainly the scenario has all the elements: "the Cuban connection" that I feel sure underlies the assassination regardless of whether one is a Lone Nutter, a Small Scale Conspiracy Theorist or a Grand Scale Conspiracy Theorist ... a plan that from the get-go involved some extreme violence and wild "out of the box" thinking (to put it mildly) ... and military characters at the highest level who were furious at JFK and capable of accomplishing pretty much anything they wanted to accomplish.

The problem I always have with anything bigger than a Small Scale Conspiracy is:  How did an unlikely character like LHO become part of it?  I could easily see a small anti-Castro group (perhaps involving rogue military or CIA participants) deciding after LHO returned from Russia that "this guy is right out of central casting to serve as the perfect patsy for shifting suspicion to Castro or at least pro-Castro forces," but I have difficulty seeing any grand, high-level conspiracy thinking it needed someone like LHO (unless, as Grand Scale Conspiracy Theorists always do, you reinvent LHO as someone much more mysterious and significant than I believe the evidence will support).  If the assassination had been put in motion by someone of the level of Gen. Lymnitzer with all his military and ex-military connections, would involving a character like LHO and his Mannlicher-Carcano have been worth the risk of whatever purpose it served?  Surely Operation Northwoods itself would have involved planted evidence pointing toward Castro that was a lot more sophisticated, reliable and compelling than LHO and his non-trusty Carcano.

I missed this post from a month ago. It's good to see you here again, Lance. Your above post closely aligns with my thinking.

[Michael Clark]

On 9/10/2017 at 7:59 PM, Craig Carvalho said:

Hello Michael,

Wonderful to see the younger generation showing an interest in this topic. A word of advice. Read everything you can get your hands on... and make up your own mind. 

Best of luck to you!

 

 

 

Lol, Mr. Walton swapped-out his adult profile pic for a childhood pic a few months ago.

[David Josephs]

6 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 1:06 PM, Lance Payette said:

Well, I don't know ... I'm no Operation Northwoods expert, although I did read the Wikipedia article and sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.  Certainly what was proposed was at a level of Dr. Strangelove lunacy.  Once the plan was vetoed by JFK, how much of a stretch would it have been for someone to suggest "Hey, you know what would be the ultimate Operation Northwoods event?"  Certainly the scenario has all the elements: "the Cuban connection" that I feel sure underlies the assassination regardless of whether one is a Lone Nutter, a Small Scale Conspiracy Theorist or a Grand Scale Conspiracy Theorist ... a plan that from the get-go involved some extreme violence and wild "out of the box" thinking (to put it mildly) ... and military characters at the highest level who were furious at JFK and capable of accomplishing pretty much anything they wanted to accomplish.

The problem I always have with anything bigger than a Small Scale Conspiracy is:  How did an unlikely character like LHO become part of it?  I could easily see a small anti-Castro group (perhaps involving rogue military or CIA participants) deciding after LHO returned from Russia that "this guy is right out of central casting to serve as the perfect patsy for shifting suspicion to Castro or at least pro-Castro forces," but I have difficulty seeing any grand, high-level conspiracy thinking it needed someone like LHO (unless, as Grand Scale Conspiracy Theorists always do, you reinvent LHO as someone much more mysterious and significant than I believe the evidence will support).  If the assassination had been put in motion by someone of the level of Gen. Lymnitzer with all his military and ex-military connections, would involving a character like LHO and his Mannlicher-Carcano have been worth the risk of whatever purpose it served?  Surely Operation Northwoods itself would have involved planted evidence pointing toward Castro that was a lot more sophisticated, reliable and compelling than LHO and his non-trusty Carcano.

I missed this post from a month ago. It's good to see you here again, Lance. Your above post closely aligns with my thinking.

A little lost in translation is the fact LHO and others of his FBI infiltration level would and could be used for virtually anything.

as we surmise the majority of evidence was created to implicate Oswald... 

Doesn't it appear to anyone that this man was the Canary in the coal mine?  When the canary smells the poison and dies... would you say it too was in on the plot?  of course not.

Harvey, Vallee, and a handful of others were canaries and took the heat for those who actually dig the mine...

FWIW 

[Paul Brancato]

David - do you see Harvey as instrumental in the Oswald project, however you define that? My own point of view has evolved to where I think that Oswald's use as anti-Castro propaganda was piggybacked by entities who preferred to see JFK out of the way rather than kill Castro.

[David Josephs]

I think that very likely there was also a "VALLEE" project as well...I further think that the US Intel services killing Castro was a fools errand...  he had more people inside the CIA/FBI/ONI/MID telling him what was up than we care to admit.

2 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

My own point of view has evolved to where I think that Oswald's use as anti-Castro propaganda was piggybacked by entities who preferred to see JFK out of the way rather than kill Castro

I agree 100% - it seems a by-product of the infiltration job being done...  Make him look, act and quack like a duck so what a DUCK needs to be framed for killing JFK, there was at least one in every city...  The CIA/FBI animosity was terrible, especially at the top.

Do you truly believe the Kennedy brothers wanted or even needed Castro dead beyond nodding to the HAWKS that he/they were doing something? 

[Michael Walton]

I  simply cannot see any of the generals having  anything  to do with it.

According  to  SS it was all happening way in the background. For all of their so called military  planning  skills they couldn't  have done anything  like  this.

[Paul Brancato]

2 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

I  simply cannot see any of the generals having  anything  to do with it.

According  to  SS it was all happening way in the background. For all of their so called military  planning  skills they couldn't  have done anything  like  this.

I guess that depends on how you define doing it. Who do you think did it?

if the hit team was outsourced, as I suspect, then I suppose the next complication was managing Dallas on the ground. Seems to me that the military, or more properly retired military, was in a good position to do that. Likewise control the autopsy, which by many accounts was controlled by active military.

[David Josephs]

On 9/10/2017 at 2:44 PM, Craig Carvalho said:

Hello Paul,

Let me explain that last sentence a bit further.

Oswald was a Marxist. When he applied for his visa passport before going to the Soviet Union, the first country he listed as a point of interest was Cuba.

Rather than posting it twice...

[David Josephs]

On 10/9/2017 at 4:30 PM, Michael Walton said:

I  simply cannot see any of the generals having  anything  to do with it.

According  to  SS it was all happening way in the background. For all of their so called military  planning  skills they couldn't  have done anything  like  this.

By "generals" I assume you include Rear Admirals?

I did this diagram while thinking about Bethesda one afternoon...

You wanna bet that everyone on this list spent time in the armed forces?
 

I see this as a wholly Military operation Mike....  no one else has the reach and the influence to control every aspect as well as being the one unifying thread among those involved... this MAY have been as simple as the JCS concluded JFK was being treasonous, was going to de-claw the CIA - the Military's front line of defense, and end the Cold War...

As I continue to research the origins of US intelligence, I keep finding ONI and MID (The Military Information Division (MID) was the first military intelligence branch of the United States Army and the United States Department of War, operating from 1885 to 1903.)

In January 1863, Major General Joseph Hooker established the Bureau of Military
Information for the Union Army during the Civil War, headed by George H.
Sharpe. Allan Pinkerton and Lafayette C. Baker handled similar operations for their
respective regional commanders. All of those operations were shut down at the end
of the Civil War in 1865.[2]
In 1885, the Army established the Military Intelligence Division (MID). In 1903,
the MID was placed under the new general staff in an elevated position.

I truly feel that Intelligence DID NOT happen without Military involvement... look who ran the CIA.  Even the first civilian was Allen Dulles, ex-Military Intelligence

Just how I see it...

DJ  

 

Galloway > Kenney > Canada > Osborne > Humes > Boswell > Finck
                                      Stover > Stringer > Reibe
                                                       Osborne > Ebersole > Custer > Reed

LeMay/Taylor > McHugh > AF1 Col Swindle

Gen Wehle > Lt Lipsey/Lt Bird

 

 

Without Calloway, Kenney and Burkley

Edited February 26, 2019 by David Josephs

[Anthony Thorne]

Gladio was a Dulles-approved project partially conceived and run by Frank Gardiner Wisner, who gets a mention in Ganser's NATO'S SECRET ARMIES as the 'architect of Gladio'.  Cottrell's book, which I own, is a bit of a mess.  Robin Ramsay (of the UK Lobster research site) tore Cottrell's book to pieces in his disappointed review.  A lot of assertions, not enough footnotes or backup to how and where he got his data.  Philip Wilan's THE PUPPETMASTERS is older, but maybe better.

Jeffrey Bale's 1994 thesis on Valerio Borghese covers some of the same territory, looking at the Gladio years with him in the foreground.  It's unpublished, but a PDF finally leaked online a year or two ago.  Peter Dale Scott supervised Bale during the writing of it.

https://www.scribd.com/document/3625...egy-of-Tension

I can't remember if I've linked this here before.  Foreign Service Officer Peter Bridges (later the US ambassador to Somalia), did a long oral history interview.  His department head at Middlebury College in 1953 was Dimitri von Mohrenschildt, brother of George.  

http://www.adst.org/OH TOCs/Bridges, Peter S.toc.pdf

George does pop up in some online articles about Gladio, notably these two.  For the second of the two links, I'd suggest you stop reading once you get to discussion of Sibel Edmonds and 'Gladio B'.  It's an unproven label for an unproven project that exists solely on her say so, and she's never given any direct evidence for it.  The stuff on Gladio, however - which is documented, and proven - is useful.

http://americanjudas.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/george-de-mohrenschildt-and-paines.html

http://americanjudas.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/the-defense-intelligence-agency-dia.html

Peter Bridges later served at various embassies, and worked for some oil companies on the side. Then Wikileaks published a leaked embassy cable a few years ago that implicated Bridges in the Gladio activities that were ongoing in Italy through the early 70's. Though he isn't mentioned in the below cable, Borghese popped up in and around the Gladio story in Italy, and the aborted Golpe Borghese government coup of December 1970 was named after him. The domestic investigations into Gladio conducted years after the event all made a point of acknowledging the role that NATO and US intelligence played in stirring things up through the period.

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cabl...ME03261_b.html

Quote

ISSUE OF SENSATIONAL WEEKLY NEWS JOURNAL QUOTE PANORAMA UNQUOTE CARRIED SCURRILOUS COVER STORY ENTITLED QUOTE THE FASCIST POISON UNQUOTE LINKING THE RIGHT-WING MSI, THE CIA, AND FSO PETER BRIDGES (ASSIGNED ROME 1966 TO 1971) IN PLOT ALLEGED TO INCLUDE 1969 PIAZZA FONTANA (MILAN) BANK BOMBING WHICH TOOK 16 LIVES AND INJURED 88 OTHERS. STORY ALLEGES PLOT AND BOMBING INTENDED TO SPARK SWING TO RIGHT IN PUBLIC OPINION TO PERMIT RIGHT-WING "CHANGE OF COURSE." CHANNELS OF FUNDS TO SUPPORT MSI IN GENERAL, AND THEREFORE CONSPIRACY ALSO, WERE NAMED AS ROME OFFICES OF FEED GRAINS COUNCIL, MERRILL LYNCH, AND CONTINENTAL ILLINOIS BANK OF CHICAGO (LINKED IN STORY TO MICHELE SINDONA). ARTICLE IS BEING TRANSLATED AND WILL BE POUCHED TO ADDEES ASAP.

2. FEED GRAINS COUNCIL HAS INFORMED US THEY CONSIDERING LEGALACTION AND HAVE ASKED ADVICE. EMBASSY IS RESPONDING WITH ADVICE NOT TO DIGNIFY AND ENCOURAGE REPLAY OF ARTICLE BY ANY VOLUNTEERED REBUTTAL OR LEGAL ACTION, BUT TO CATEGORICALLY AND EMPHATICALLY DENY STORY (UNDERSCORE) IF ASKED (END UNDERSCORE). FCC WILL BE TOLD EMBASSY WILL SAY NOTHING PUBLICLY BUT IF ASKED WILL REPLY TO ANY PRESS QUERY WITH STATEMENT THAT STORY IS QUOTE TOTALLY WITHOUT FOUNDATION AND NOT WORTHY OF REPLY UNQUOTE. TO QUESTIONS BY OTHERS THAN PRESS, EMB OFFS WILL LABEL ARTICLE AN OUTRAGEOUS LIE.

 

Researchers can use the link between Gladio and the aforementioned Illinois bank to join other dots.  Nixon-era Treasury secretary David Kennedy, the chairman of that bank, later testified at a criminal trial to having held a long relationship with Michele Sindona.  Sindona gets a mention in Jeffrey Bale's just released book, THE DARKEST SIDE OF POLITICS - POSTWAR FASCISM, COVERT OPERATIONS, AND TERRORISM.  That volume only came out a month ago, and there are no online reviews for it yet.  Much of it is an expanded version of Bale's thesis above, but with substantial new details on Aginter Press and the Borghese coup.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1979/01/10/david-kennedy-testifies-to-link-with-sindona/d664e6be-46f1-4f84-bc2a-838b7cba7b07/?utm_term=.8b8ed5d29181

Frank Wisner's son - Frank G. Wisner, Jr - seems to have had a role in more recent deep events, but that's another story.  Philip Willan is working on a big book on the Aldo Moro assassination, and will probably have more material on Gladio in it when it appears.  He also touches on some of the players in his overlooked 2013 book THE VATICAN AT WAR, linked below.  He speaks fluent Italian and lives and works among Italian researchers.  I asked him a couple of years ago if any new material had appeared within the archives over there on guys like William Harvey, who were active for a period in Italy during the Gladio years.  He said a few tidbits had, but not much.

https://www.amazon.com/Puppetmasters-Philip-Willan-ebook/dp/B0081F82ZQ/ref=pd_sim_351_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=8MFSX0CD44KXVTBMHPH9

Some of the networks surrounding Gladio are discussed to an extent in Kruger's THE GREAT HEROIN COUP,  which was reprinted in updated form a year or two ago.  Peter Dale Scott did an intro for it back in the day.  The original volume was published in the late 70's.  The new edition was updated for 2016, quite a while later.

https://www.amazon.com/Great-Heroin-Coup-Intelligence-International-ebook/dp/B01AFDYNMC/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510697616&sr=1-1&keywords=great+heroin+coup

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Anthony Thorne

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, Anthony Thorne said:

Gladio was a Dulles-approved project partially conceived and run by Frank Gardiner Wisner, who gets a mention in Ganser's NATO'S SECRET ARMIES as the 'architect of Gladio'.  Cottrell's book, which I own, is a bit of a mess.  Robin Ramsay (of the UK Lobster research site) tore Cottrell's book to pieces in his disappointed review.  A lot of assertions, not enough footnotes or backup to how and where he got his data.  Philip Wilan's THE PUPPETMASTERS is older, but maybe better.

Jeffrey Bale's 1994 thesis on Valerio Borghese covers some of the same territory, looking at the Gladio years with him in the foreground.  It's unpublished, but a PDF finally leaked online a year or two ago.  Peter Dale Scott supervised Bale during the writing of it.

https://www.scribd.com/document/3625...egy-of-Tension

I can't remember if I've linked this here before.  Foreign Service Officer Peter Bridges (later the US ambassador to Somalia), did a long oral history interview.  His department head at Middlebury College in 1953 was Dimitri von Mohrenschildt, brother of George.  

http://www.adst.org/OH TOCs/Bridges, Peter S.toc.pdf

George does pop up in some online articles about Gladio, notably these two.  For the second of the two links, I'd suggest you stop reading once you get to discussion of Sibel Edmonds and 'Gladio B'.  It's an unproven label for an unproven project that exists solely on her say so, and she's never given any direct evidence for it.  The stuff on Gladio, however - which is documented, and proven - is useful.

http://americanjudas.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/george-de-mohrenschildt-and-paines.html

http://americanjudas.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/the-defense-intelligence-agency-dia.html

Peter Bridges later served at various embassies, and worked for some oil companies on the side. Then Wikileaks published a leaked embassy cable a few years ago that implicated Bridges in the Gladio activities that were ongoing in Italy through the early 70's. Though he isn't mentioned in the below cable, Borghese popped up in and around the Gladio story in Italy, and the aborted Golpe Borghese government coup of December 1970 was named after him. The domestic investigations into Gladio conducted years after the event all made a point of acknowledging the role that NATO and US intelligence played in stirring things up through the period.

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cabl...ME03261_b.html

 

Researchers can use the link between Gladio and the aforementioned Illinois bank to join other dots.  Nixon-era Treasury secretary David Kennedy, the chairman of that bank, later testified at a criminal trial to having held a long relationship with Michele Sindona.  Sindona gets a mention in Jeffrey Bale's just released book, THE DARKEST SIDE OF POLITICS - POSTWAR FASCISM, COVERT OPERATIONS, AND TERRORISM.  That volume only came out a month ago, and there are no online reviews for it yet.  Much of it is an expanded version of Bale's thesis above, but with substantial new details on Aginter Press and the Borghese coup.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1979/01/10/david-kennedy-testifies-to-link-with-sindona/d664e6be-46f1-4f84-bc2a-838b7cba7b07/?utm_term=.8b8ed5d29181

Frank Wisner's son - Frank G. Wisner, Jr - seems to have had a role in more recent deep events, but that's another story.  Philip Willan is working on a big book on the Aldo Moro assassination, and will probably have more material on Gladio in it when it appears.  He also touches on some of the players in his overlooked 2013 book THE VATICAN AT WAR, linked below.  He speaks fluent Italian and lives and works among Italian researchers.  I asked him a couple of years ago if any new material had appeared within the archives over there on guys like William Harvey, who were active for a period in Italy during the Gladio years.  He said a few tidbits had, but not much.

https://www.amazon.com/Puppetmasters-Philip-Willan-ebook/dp/B0081F82ZQ/ref=pd_sim_351_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=8MFSX0CD44KXVTBMHPH9

Some of the networks surrounding Gladio are discussed to an extent in Kruger's THE GREAT HEROIN COUP,  which was reprinted in updated form a year or two ago.  Peter Dale Scott did an intro for it back in the day.  The original volume was published in the late 70's.  The new edition was updated for 2016, quite a while later.

https://www.amazon.com/Great-Heroin-Coup-Intelligence-International-ebook/dp/B01AFDYNMC/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1510697616&sr=1-1&keywords=great+heroin+coup

 

Anthony - great post to dig into. I personally think Gladio is at the heart of the matter, and have posted often on it, but not with your excellent links. I enjoyed reading Cottrell's book for its literary style, but it isn't very useful as a research tool.

[Paz Marverde]

Does someone please know how to embed YouTube videos? I have very important stuff to share about, but I don't know how to do it

[Michael Walton]

13 hours ago, David Josephs said:

By "generals" I assume you include Rear Admirals?

I did this diagram while thinking about Bethesda one afternoon...

You wanna bet that everyone on this list spent time in the armed forces?
 

I see this as a wholly Military operation Mike....  no one else has the reach and the influence to control every aspect as well as being the one unifying thread among those involved... this MAY have been as simple as the JCS concluded JFK was being treasonous, was going to de-claw the CIA - the Military's front line of defense, and end the Cold War...

As I continue to research the origins of US intelligence, I keep finding ONI and MID (The Military Information Division (MID) was the first military intelligence branch of the United States Army and the United States Department of War, operating from 1885 to 1903.)

In January 1863, Major General Joseph Hooker established the Bureau of Military
Information for the Union Army during the Civil War, headed by George H.
Sharpe. Allan Pinkerton and Lafayette C. Baker handled similar operations for their
respective regional commanders. All of those operations were shut down at the end
of the Civil War in 1865.[2]
In 1885, the Army established the Military Intelligence Division (MID). In 1903,
the MID was placed under the new general staff in an elevated position.

I truly feel that Intelligence DID NOT happen without Military involvement... look who ran the CIA.  Even the first civilian was Allen Dulles, ex-Military Intelligence

Just how I see it...

DJ  

 

Galloway > Kenney > Canada > Osborne > Humes > Boswell > Finck
                                      Stover > Stringer > Reibe
                                                       Osborne > Ebersole > Custer > Reed

LeMay/Taylor > McHugh > AF1 Col Swindle

Gen Wehle > Lt Lipsey/Lt Bird

 

Without Calloway, Kenney and Burkle

David you could very well be right. I tend to err on the side of caution with  this case. Yes there was a  conspiracy, yes LHO didn't  do it, yes the intelligence  community  is a most likely culprit. And yes, possibly  military. We all know  Kennedy was despised thinking he was Joe the appeaser all over again. So yes there's  a  motive there as well.

As for your  diagram I  can't  make  heads  or  tails of it. I've  worked in the multimedia  field  for  31 years and I'd  suggest you  redo it so it's  easier to  read. Otherwise  new folks here will take  it  as the scribblings of a madman.

[Ray Mitcham]

1 hour ago, Paz Marverde said:

Does someone please know how to embed YouTube videos? I have very important stuff to share about, but I don't know how to do it

Hi Paz. Just copy the video address and paste it in the posting area. as I did for the above youtube video

Edited November 15, 2017 by Ray Mitcham

[Paz Marverde]

Hi, I highly recommend this documentary. It not only talk about Lemnitzer, but goes far further