The back wound

[Chris Bristow]

15 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Oh boy. Take a closer look, will ya? The man with the hard hat (Millican) is at a location in front of the President's limo at Z-160, and behind the location of the back-up car in Altgens. Altgens was thereby taken about five seconds after Z-160. The limos are not in the same place, unless you mean JFK's limo at Z-160 matches up with LBJ's limo in Altgens. 

Yes, oh boy. It is very simple to do multiple lines of sight in Altgens 6 which shows the exact location of the limo at Z  255. Even if A6 or Z is claimed to be fake it is faked to put the limo at  Z255. There is not a single thing in that photo that supports the idea that the limo is East of the Stemmona sign. The sign is just outside the field of view in A6. That can also be verified by adding the cameras field of view to Altgens lines of sight .

If a researcher wants to be taken seriously they have to learn to check their claims before presenting. Make a few mistakes or ignore the basic rules of perspective and optics and you will not be taken seriously after that.

 

[Micah Mileto]

On 5/4/2019 at 3:28 PM, Cliff Varnell said:

No, Bennett was clearly looking to the right when he heard the first shot.  In Willis 5 he was seated on the far right, facing the right.

From Bennett's statement 11/23/63:

<quote on, emphasis added>

About thirty minutes after leaving Love Field about 12:25 P.M., the Motorcade entered an intersection and then proceeded down a grade. At this point the well-wishers numbered but a few; the motorcade continued down this grade enroute to the Trade Mart. At this point I heard what sounded like a fire-cracker. I immediately looked from the right/crowd/physical area/and looked towards the President who was seated in the right rear seat of his limousine open convertible. At the moment I looked at the back of the President I heard another fire-cracker noise and saw the shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder. A second shot followed immediately and hit the right rear high of the President's head. I immediately hollered "he's hit" and reached for the AR-15 located on the floor of the rear seat. Special Agent Hickey had already picked-up the AR-15. We peered towards the rear and particularly the right side of the area. I had drawn my revolver when I saw S/A Hickey had the AR15. I was unable to see anything or one that could have fired the shots. The President's car immediately kicked into high gear and the follow-up car followed.

<quote off>

In the Altgens 6 photo his features are blurred -- consistent with head movement.

 

Are you suggesting Bennett saw the back shot slightly after Altgens 6 was snapped? In that case, I have heard of no less than THREE different ways to use Bennett's statements to criticize the official story:

A. Bennett's statements were intentionally fabricated

B. Bennett saw the back hole created after Kennedy had already raised his hands towards his throat

C. Bennett's statements can only be reconciled with the official story by theorizing a first missed shot - something Pat Speer's website put under heavy scrutiny. The only long-standing evidence for a first missed shot is Connally's quick right head turn. But nobody has proven that Connally's quick head turn is incompatible with casual movement in reaction to a crowd on onlookers. 

Edited May 5, 2019 by Micah Mileto

[Cliff Varnell]

20 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

Are you suggesting Bennett saw the back shot slightly after Altgens 6 was snapped?

You bet.  Altgens 6 shows his features blurred while he turned to face front. 

The location of the bullet strike -- "about 4 inches down from the right shoulder" destroys the SBT and the "high back wound" theory favored by a surprising number of otherwise intelligent CTs.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Cliff Varnell

[John Butler]

Z 225 is compared to Z 255.  When Altgens takes Altgens 6 he is in the street about midway in front of the presidential limousine.  The Stemmons sign is about 30 feet behind the presidential limousine at Z 255.  It is not in front or at the side of the presidential limousine as shown in Altgens 6.  At Z 255 there is no magic camera angle that can put a sign that is 30 feet behind the vehicle off to right side or in front of the vehicle.

To match Z 255 to this photo one would need to see the Stemmons sign roughly 30 feet behind the presidential limousine at the rear of the Secret Service vehicle. 

The man with the hard hat is a known figure.  There are 19 people (I call this group Mannequin Row.  BTW most are not there.  They are imaginary. )  from the lamppost to the Stemmons sign.  That is roughly 40 feet.  That puts the Stemmons sign in front of the presidential vehicle in Altgens 6. 

From this we can conclude that the Zapruder film is a hoax or Altgens 6 is a hoax.  Both images can not be true.  Personally, I believe both are frauds.

Edited May 6, 2019 by John Butler

[Pat Speer]

John, you need to get a plat of Dealey Plaza--or actually go there--and plot out the angles of the photos. Altgens, for example, was not in the middle of the street, but on the south side of the street looking back at a section of street that curved slightly to the left right at him before curving back to the right as it passed him. Zapruder's location is also problematic in that you can see the limo passing the Stemmons sign long before it actually reaches the sign on the street.  (You can see this for yourself by watching cars in your neighborhood--if you pick out a location let's say ten feet back from the street and look at cars as they pass a street light or power pole fifty feet to your left, you will see them pass the streetlight or power pole  seconds before the cars actually pass them).

 

[Chris Davidson]

 

22 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

John, you need to get a plat of Dealey Plaza--or actually go there--and plot out the angles of the photos. Altgens, for example, was not in the middle of the street, but on the south side of the street looking back at a section of street that curved slightly to the left right at him before curving back to the right as it passed him. Zapruder's location is also problematic in that you can see the limo passing the Stemmons sign long before it actually reaches the sign on the street.  (You can see this for yourself by watching cars in your neighborhood--if you pick out a location let's say ten feet back from the street and look at cars as they pass a street light or power pole fifty feet to your left, you will see them pass the streetlight or power pole  seconds before the cars actually pass them).

 

We're running out of examples, maybe this one will work:

[John Butler]

"(You can see this for yourself by watching cars in your neighborhood--if you pick out a location let's say ten feet back from the street and look at cars as they pass a street light or power pole fifty feet to your left, you will see them pass the streetlight or power pole  seconds before the cars actually pass them)."

"you can see the limo passing the Stemmons sign long before it actually reaches the sign on the street." 

I don't believe I have ever had that experience.  Does that happen by magic or what?

Chris, somebody needs a better example than the chart shown.  Can you specify where the R L Thornton sign is?  The lamppost near the R L Thornton sign?  Can you locate for me the Stemmons sign.  It should be right next to Elm Street 40 or so feet from the lamppost next to the R L Thornton sign.

Are you saying that Altgens was in the grass when he took Altgens 6.  If not what are the red lines?

Can you locate for me where Altgens was standing in the road.  Can you draw a line south of Elm listing the various Z frames from say the SW corner to the point where the red lines end to the west.  If not what z frame would be the equivalent of where the red lines end to the west?

There seems to be plenty of shots of Altgens after the assassination but not many before.  Perhaps just the Zapruder film.

OBTW.  Have been to Dealey Plaza and at the time took lots of photos there.  Stood in all the spots where something was alleged to have happened including Altgens spot in the street.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by John Butler

[Tony Krome]

 

Stemmons sign to the right;

 

Thornton sign to the left;

 

All signs seen together;

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Tony Krome

[Ray Mitcham]

Tony, in the recreation photo above, (the middle photo), the Thornton sign is further east than the lamp post. According to the third photo it should be further West. 

p.s. Don't bother trying to explain Altgen 6 , to John. He doesn't understand field of view on a telephoto lens.

p.p.s. Does the original negative of Altgens 6 still exist? If so where can it be found?

Edited May 7, 2019 by Ray Mitcham

[Tony Krome]

31 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Tony, in the recreation photo above, (the middle photo), the Thornton sign is further east than the lamp post. According to the third photo it should be further West. 

Yep, just showing where the signs are outside the Altgens photo, like this;

[Ray Mitcham]

42 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Yep, just showing where the signs are outside the Altgens photo, like this;

 Nice photo montage.

[John Butler]

Oh boy.  Fantasy Art.  Nothing wrong with fantasy art.  It can be appreciated for what it is.  Except, when it is posed as reality.  Maybe I'll be shown photos of phony car tires and shadows.  Oh, this is Altgens 6 rather than Altgens 5. 

Krome's first effort has compositional problems.  Where are the railroad workers?  Well, that's ok.  Sometimes they are there and sometimes not.  But, a Triple Underpass floating in the air?  That's a problem.  Also, the Elm Street curve is exaggerated.

Altgens is further east on Elm than he should be.  It is difficult to determine exactly where he was since there are no films or photos showing where he was in the street.  His position is calculated by the angles of his photo.  Zapruder shows him near the street starting at Z frame 330.  This is almost directly across from the steps hat shows in various media two or three men on the steps.  In fact, Zapruder shows two Altgens with vary little variation in the two figures in that position.  One is claimed to be Dick Bothun.

The lamppost in the scene is out of place.  About the only thing right is "Stemmons sign to the right;"  Actually, the Stemmons sign is always to the right.  If you are looking at the presidential limousine going west on Elm Street the Stemmons sign is on the right.  It you are looking up Elm Street to the east at the P L the Stemmons sign is on the right.  If you have ever marched troops you will understand this readily.

The second effort suffers from many of the same problems.  Where is Mannequin Row?  I know they are like the railroad workers.  Sometimes they are there and sometimes they are not.  I am interpreting this scene as Altgens as standing south of the Stemmons sign not west. 

The last scene is supposedly a realistic photo of the assassination era.  It is a scene, I believe, that is the day after the assassination.  It is a very clear photo which you can enlarge and still retain a good picture of what is enlarged.  But, it is like many other things taken in Dealey Plaza.  It is a bit off from reality.  First off, the curve of Elm Street is exaggerated showing almost a right hand turn going under the railroad bridge.  That may just be a matter of interpretation.

But, the real problem is where are the steps coming down from the top of the hill to the sidewalk and Elm Street?  You know the steps that show two or three men there depending on which media you are looking at.  They should be between the Stemmons sign and the Fort Worth sign.  I can't find them.  Can you?

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by John Butler

[John Butler]

Once again the perspective on this is weird.  The Lamppost is further west than the Stemmons sign than shown here.  This photo clearly shows Altgens 6 is a crop of a larger photo.  But, even that is not quite true.  There is a magic camera involved here.  Which makes Altgens a manufactured product.

Here, we have a fine example of photo editing in building a scene.  The Motorcycle Policeman is undistorted at this distance.  The Vice President's security vehicle is greatly distorted at about 40 feet behind the Motorcycle Policeman.  And, then directly behind the vehicle the boy and others in the crowd are not.  How do you do that?

Nearly everyone sees the transparent shotgun held by one of the security guys.  Can you see Danny Arce talking on a hand held radio?

 

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by John Butler

[Tony Krome]

The "fantasy art" pictures were posted so you could see where the signs are.

One of those pictures represents Altgens 6, and the other picture is the same scene viewed from the east. This was done by some guys via a software program.

The scene was created for pivoting around Altgens 6 only, that's why there's no railway workers etc.

The other montage comprises Altgens 6 over a photo taken just days after the assassination

Click HERE to see the base photo and to zoom in close

Edited May 7, 2019 by Tony Krome

[Michael Cross]

Great additions Tony and Chris.  I'm afraid you're wasting your time though.