EVIDENCE FOR HARVEY AND LEE (Please debate the specifics right here. Don't just claim someone else has debunked it!)

[Jim Hargrove]

2 hours ago, John Kowalski said:

Jim:

Baylor has a new layout for John's collection, preferred the old one. It's an Office of Security file so next time I go there will find out if he has a file for this office.

I don't like the new front-end either.  The only way I can figure to search just the JFK - John Armstrong files is to click the system-wide search icon at the top of the Armstrong Collection home page, then select "Advanced search," and then select the JA collection from the long drop-down list.  This is going to be doubly confusing for occasional users because of the group of "Armstrong Browning" collections at the top of the collection list, which have nothing to do with JA's collection.

Am I missing something?  

[John Butler]

2 hours ago, John Kowalski said:

John B:

You are right, he was referring to Oswald Villard.

John K,

I have had a chance to think about that.  There might  be a San Francisco Police record for an L. Oswald.  And, then again maybe not.  If someone went to the police and urged them to released Sam Darcy then they should have signed that petition.  There is no signature for L. Oswald.

[John Butler]

Speaking of searching.  Has anyone had a problem with the Edge browser?  There are occasions when I have entered searches involving some aspect of Oswald or Kennedy and Edge returns endless pages that have nothing to do with the research question.  Then at other times Edge returns information on what you are looking for.  I try to stay with Google but sometimes that doesn't help.

That's when I resort to DuckDuckGo.  Are there any better search engines than MS Edge or Google.  Internet Explorer is being phased out. 

[Jim Hargrove]

John,

I use Linux, not Windows, but my understanding is that Micro$oft’s Edge browser is really just repackaged Chromium, which is the open-source version of Google’s Chrome.  If I saw what you described on my monitor, I think I’d first try clearing the browser’s cache.  If the problem persisted, you could try a completely different browser, such as Firefox. 

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

For once, I agree with Jim Hargrove. The new Baylor set-up is a bit rubbish, and hasn't been thought through properly. It looks OK, but it's unnecessarily difficult to use and the underlying code is bloated. If you don't know precisely what you're looking for, you probably won't find it. At least it's better than the Harold Weisberg collection at hood.edu, which appears to have been cobbled together by someone who had never used a computer before.

Edge is indeed now Chromium with a coat of paint by Microsoft. I too recommend Firefox. You can download it here: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/. It comes with plenty of optional add-ons, such as ad-blockers and script blockers, that might appeal to the typically wary and privacy-conscious JFK assassination enthusiast.

For Mr Butler: Edge, Firefox and Internet Explorer are all web browsers (basically, software that displays web pages); Google, DuckDuckGo and Startpage are all search engines (basically, software that displays lists of web pages).

Each web browser comes with link to a default search engine, but you can change the default settings and customise any browser to incorporate any search engine, either by clicking on the little search box (if your browser has one) that's to the right of the address bar or by delving into the browser's menu settings (look for 'preferences', the location of which will vary in different browsers).

[Jim Hargrove]

Three other books based on “Harvey and Lee:”  

The JFK Assassination and the Uncensored Story of the Two Oswalds

From an Amazon review: “I'd read a good chunk of Armstrong's Harvey and Lee, but Shannan provided clarity for me on the matter of Marguerite Oswald in particular and the whole thesis in general. So much easier to read this digest than the master's unedited tome.”

 

DOPPELGANGER: The Legend of Lee Harvey Oswald

From the publisher’s blurb: “More than 300 sources, including many sworn testimonies & affidavits, were consulted, as well as John Armstrong’s massive research project HARVEY AND LEE. One fact led to another, until a coherent picture began to emerge from the immense pile of puzzle pieces…. That picture includes the background of Harvey as a juvenile immigrant fluent in Russian, and the creation of the second ‘Lee Harvey Oswald’ and the second ‘Marguerite Oswald.’ The picture continues with the recruitment of both Lee Oswald and Harvey Oswald by the ONI and the CIA, followed by Harvey’s assumption of Lee’s identity, his ‘defection’ to Russia, and Lee’s involvement with the Cuban revolution and the CIA..…”
 

Mistaken Identity

Publisher’s abstract: "Mistaken Identity is not just another “conspiracy” book. It is a critique of the Warren Commission. New forensic and evidentiary material not published, proves that two individuals known as “Lee Harvey Oswald” enlisted in the U.S. Marines in 1956 using the same birth certificate. Recent genealogical research identifies them as second cousins through intermarriage of second-generation French families in New Orleans. It created a nightmare of identity for the FBI. Diligent FBI field agents solved the Kennedy Assassination, but superiors thwarted their efforts. A 1965 secret report by Robert Kennedy reveals the money conduit that killed his brother."

Has anyone here looked at any of these books?  

[John Butler]

Jim,

Thanks for the search info discussion.  And, thanks to Mr. Bojczuk.

Is there any new information on the early years of the Oswald Project, say from 1942-1945, in these 3 books.  Are there any references to the OSS, William Donovan, the Dulles brothers, or our favorite communists in NYC.  Anything new on Mysterious Marge?

From a quick search the Pat Shannon book is unavailable.  A quick search lists one of his books with a nifty title  roughly Everything They Ever Told Me Was A Lie.  I have been feeling that way for years and years.  Things have gone definitely worse during the Trump years.  Who do you trust when nearly everyone appears to be lying?  2 trillion dollars to be spent which comes out to man, woman, and child at 66,000,000, or some such ridiculous figure, dollars per person.  And, if that person is lucky they might get $1200 dollars.  I don't even want to do the math on that.

From above Mistaken Identity has this blurb:

Mistaken Identity is not just another "conspiracy" book. It is a critique of the Warren Commission. New forensic and evidentiary material not published, proves that two individuals known as "Lee Harvey Oswald" enlisted in the U.S. Marines in 1956 using the same birth certificate. Recent genealogical research identifies them as second cousins through intermarriage of second-generation French families in New Orleans. It created a nightmare of identity for the FBI. Diligent FBI field agents solved the Kennedy Assassination, but superiors thwarted their efforts. A 1965 secret report by Robert Kennedy reveals the money conduit that killed his brother.

 Those poor FBI guys.  Don't you feel their pain.  And, those great genealogy researchers giving us the answer to what we have been searching for forever.  Second cousins of second-generation French families.  Maybe that accounts for Harvey's Baltic or Polish Russian accent according to Marina and knowledge of Russian.  That Tippit caller must have been confused.  Oswald could not have grown up in a Hungarian family of communists in NYC.

Edited April 10, 2020 by John Butler

[John Kowalski]

23 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

I don't like the new front-end either.  The only way I can figure to search just the JFK - John Armstrong files is to click the system-wide search icon at the top of the Armstrong Collection home page, then select "Advanced search," and then select the JA collection from the long drop-down list.  This is going to be doubly confusing for occasional users because of the group of "Armstrong Browning" collections at the top of the collection list, which have nothing to do with JA's collection.

Am I missing something?  

Will be going there today. Will update you on what I find, if anything, and if I learn anything new about searching for documents.

[John Kowalski]

23 hours ago, John Butler said:

Speaking of searching.  Has anyone had a problem with the Edge browser? 

Use Firefox and have found that results are good. Never used Edge for JFK searches.

[John Butler]

58 minutes ago, John Kowalski said:

Use Firefox and have found that results are good. Never used Edge for JFK searches.

Thanks John K,

I really like the old Internet Explorer (probably because I don't want to learn anything new)  I'll download Firefox and give it another try.

[John Butler]

I'm providing this information for the record to compare Emil Kardos to Emil Gardos.

Emil Kardos and Emil Gardos.  These are not the same people.  George Schwimmer, the writer of Doppelganger got it wrong.  I really didn't like reading this book because of the format.

However, I have persevered.  For the record I have provided this information on Emil Kardos who Schwimmerr poses as Harvey.  I think our version of Emil Gardos is correct.  However, Emil Kardos is not married until 1941 and I know nothing about his family and if he had children.

This *$#(& editor is not allowing me to put this in the right order.  This is where Emil Kardos father and son lived in 1940.  320 East 80th Street is between 1st and 2nd Ave.

The distance between Emil Kardos and Emil Gardos:

The marriage of Emil Kardos to Helen Kaminski in 1941:

All kinds of problems with editing here:

Naturalization record of Emil Kardos:

 

Name:	Emil Kardos
Age:	34
Estimated birth year:	abt 1906
Gender:	Male
Race:	White
Birthplace:	Hungary
Marital status:	Single
Relation to Head of House:	Son
Home in 1940:	New York, New York, New York
Map of Home in 1940:	View Map New York, New York, New York
Street:	E 80 Street
House Number:	320
Farm:	No
Inferred Residence in 1935:	New York, New York, New York
Residence in 1935:	Same Place
Resident on farm in 1935:	No
Citizenship:	Having first papers
Sheet Number:	3B
Occupation:	Laborer
Industry:	Machine Shop
Attended School or College:	No
Highest Grade Completed:	High School, 2nd year
Hours Worked Week Prior to Census:	40
Duration of Unemployment:	0
Class of Worker:	Wage or salary worker in private work
Weeks Worked in 1939:	52
Income:	1300
Income Other Sources:	No
Neighbors:	View others on page View others on page
Household Members:	Name Age Emil Kardos 66 Emil Kardos 34

 

This record is the same as the one below:

Bottom of Form

Name:	Emil Kardos
Age:	66
Estimated birth year:	abt 1874
Gender:	Female
Race:	White
Birthplace:	Hungary
Marital status:	Widowed
Relation to Head of House:	Head
Home in 1940:	New York, New York, New York
Map of Home in 1940:	View Map New York, New York, New York
Street:	E 80 Street
House Number:	320
Farm:	No
Inferred Residence in 1935:	New York, New York, New York
Residence in 1935:	Same Place
Resident on farm in 1935:	No
Citizenship:	Alien
Sheet Number:	3A
Number of Household in Order of Visitation:	69
House Owned or Rented:	Rented
Value of Home or Monthly Rental if Rented:	27
Attended School or College:	No
Highest Grade Completed:	High School, 2nd year
Weeks Worked in 1939:	0
Income:	0
Income Other Sources:	No
Neighbors:	View others on page View others on page
Household Members:	Name Age Emil Kardos 66 Emil Kardos 34

Edited April 10, 2020 by John Butler

[John Kowalski]

On 4/9/2020 at 12:01 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

I don't like the new front-end either.  The only way I can figure to search just the JFK - John Armstrong files is to click the system-wide search icon at the top of the Armstrong Collection home page, then select "Advanced search," and then select the JA collection from the long drop-down list.  This is going to be doubly confusing for occasional users because of the group of "Armstrong Browning" collections at the top of the collection list, which have nothing to do with JA's collection.

Am I missing something?  

Jim:

Visited Baylor, could not find the 1953 document.

What I liked about the old format is that it was easy to scan all of the file folders because there was a link, instead of a large icon, for each folder. On one page you can see all of them. Can't do this with the new format because the file folders icons are large. To see all of them the researcher has to scroll down page after page to see everything.

Edited April 11, 2020 by John Kowalski

[Jim Hargrove]

John K,

The Baylor re-design is a travesty, at least for productive searches in the John Armstrong Collection.  I’m going to bring this up with John A.  Perhaps if he complains something will happen.

John B,

Thank so much for taking a look at Doppelganger.  Either I’m getting completely old and totally forgetful, or it is real news to find two generations of Emil Kardoses living in Yorkville.  The fact that one Kardos indicated he was born in Hungary and came to the U.S. from Czechoslovakia is fascinating, no?  And their close proximity to the one-time residence of noted commie Emil Gardos is really quite a coincidence!  Any evidence that Emil Kardos, either Emile Kardos, was a communist?

I haven’t read Doppelganger.  Have you found anything else of interest?  This is fascinating.  Of the three books I posted about, I've only examined Mistaken Identity. I’ve GOT to look at the others!  Thanks again.
 

[John Butler]

3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

John K,

The Baylor re-design is a travesty, at least for productive searches in the John Armstrong Collection.  I’m going to bring this up with John A.  Perhaps if he complains something will happen.

John B,

Thank so much for taking a look at Doppelganger.  Either I’m getting completely old and totally forgetful, or it is real news to find two generations of Emil Kardoses living in Yorkville.  The fact that one Kardos indicated he was born in Hungary and came to the U.S. from Czechoslovakia is fascinating, no?  And their close proximity to the one-time residence of noted commie Emil Gardos is really quite a coincidence!  Any evidence that Emil Kardos, either Emile Kardos, was a communist?

I haven’t read Doppelganger.  Have you found anything else of interest?  This is fascinating.  Of the three books I posted about, I've only examined Mistaken Identity. I’ve GOT to look at the others!  Thanks again.
 

If you have Amazon Unlimited Kindle you can get a free download of Doppleganger and read it.  I just signed up for Amazon Unlimited Kindle with supposedly a million titles for free.  It's like 9 or 10 dollars per month.  You can hardly buy a book for that price.

Except for the Emil Kardos/Emil Gardos error, I have to give Mr. Schwimmer more credit than I have before.  He makes a number of good comparisons putting disparate data into an understandable context.  I just don't like the format.

It's not news since Schwinner published the father and son Kardos pair in Dopplegander.  What is news is that his info is wrong in comparison to the Tippit Call.  Our information on Emil Gardos, Grace, Fred, and Louis Weinstock is new and correct. 

This is a real co-winky-dink.  3 Emil Kardos/Gardos living within a 5 minute walk of each other.  In little Hungary (Yorkville).  One street over from the Yorkville Club, the communist universe center in Yorkville. 

At this point I don't know anything about Emil Kardos and son, Emil.  I'll try to find more info and get back in touch. 

Oh, the other book, the first mentioned, is something like $45 or $50 at Amazon.  That's generally a sign there might be something interesting.

Edited April 11, 2020 by John Butler

[Jim Hargrove]

11 hours ago, John Butler said:

If you have Amazon Unlimited Kindle you can get a free download of Doppleganger and read it.  I just signed up for Amazon Unlimited Kindle with supposedly a million titles for free.  It's like 9 or 10 dollars per month.  You can hardly buy a book for that price.

Except for the Emil Kardos/Emil Gardos error, I have to give Mr. Schwimmer more credit than I have before.  He makes a number of good comparisons putting disparate data into an understandable context.  I just don't like the format.

It's not news since Schwinner published the father and son Kardos pair in Dopplegander.  What is news is that his info is wrong in comparison to the Tippit Call.  Our information on Emil Gardos, Grace, Fred, and Louis Weinstock is new and correct. 

This is a real co-winky-dink.  3 Emil Kardos/Gardos living within a 5 minute walk of each other.  In little Hungary (Yorkville).  One street over from the Yorkville Club, the communist universe center in Yorkville. 

At this point I don't know anything about Emil Kardos and son, Emil.  I'll try to find more info and get back in touch. 

Oh, the other book, the first mentioned, is something like $45 or $50 at Amazon.  That's generally a sign there might be something interesting.

John,

Thanks again for all your help on this.  I’ve downloaded the fourth edition(!) of Doppelganger to my Kindle gizmos and will start reading it right away.  First impression is that it doesn’t stray far from the conclusions of Harvey and Lee, but it looks like a much easier read.  I love the technique of telling the story from Harvey Oswald’s perspective, and it is great to see those links to my website!

I’m curious, though.  What makes you so certain the anonymous caller wasn’t referring to Emil Kardos and was, instead, talking about Emil Gardos?  As we have both noted, having “3 Emil Kardos/Gardos living within a 5 minute walk of each other” is just a stunning coincidence!  Speaking of coincidences….

New York City was a perfect place to start putting both Oswalds into history.  It is quite possible that one boy attended Public School 44 in the Bronx and the other went to Public School 44 in Manhattan.  What an utterly perfect historic fog to introduce Lee Harvey Oswald and his doppelganger into the record.  From John A’s write-up on my website:

There is, however, another clue as to the identity of a school that Oswald may have attended. On page 63 of LEE, a book by Robert Oswald, the author states, "Lee entered the 8th grade at P.S. 44 on Columbus Avenue at 76th St." This school is William J. O'Shea Junior High School, PS 44 in Manhattan, and is 2 1/2 miles from the Pic's apartment.  There are no WC or FBI records nor any information about Oswald's seventh or eighth grade attendance at a school in Manhattan at the National Archives. It is interesting to note that both John Pic and Robert Oswald said LEE attended a junior high school in Manhattan, but the FBI gave the WC records for Oswald's attendance at PS 44 in the Bronx, 8 miles from the Pics' apartment. If LEE Oswald did attend PS 44 in Manhattan, or any other school in NYC, those records disappeared long ago. It well worth remembering that Judge Florence Kelley gave Oswald's original school records to the FBI, but weeks later the FBI provided the WC with only photographs (not original records) of Oswald's attendance at PS 44 in the Bronx. (It is also worth noting that there are five PS 44 schools in New York City: PS 44 Manhattan; PS 44 Bronx; PS 44 Staten Island; PS 44 Brooklyn; PS 44 Queens.) Multiple junior high schools identified as "PS 44" in New York City… how convenient to place LEE Oswald at one PS 44 in Manhattan, while at the same time HARVEY Oswald was briefly attending a different PS 44 in the Bronx... and how utterly confusing for researchers and historians who might try to untangle and understand "PS 44" in New York City.