Jeff Carter Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 45 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said: Several posters on this thread have reiterated without basis in fact that the Steele Dossier was not only a Democratic Party Operation, it was also largely false, fake information. Repeating that falsehood doesn’t make it true. The Horowitz IG Report frequently refers to the Steele dossier in terms of its unverified and false attributes, and makes note that the FBI was specifically warned its status as a DNC/Clinton funded opp research exercise would create exactly the compromised disaster it created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 21 hours ago, Jeff Carter said: The Horowitz IG Report frequently refers to the Steele dossier in terms of its unverified and false attributes, and makes note that the FBI was specifically warned its status as a DNC/Clinton funded opp research exercise would create exactly the compromised disaster it created. Horowitz also agreed that the Russians interfered in a systematic and sweeping campaign to interfere in the 2016 elections which you dispute. Does the IG report confirm that for you or just the bits and pieces that you're inclined to agree with? The Page FISA fiasco and Steele's report is only part of the investigation which also included four now convicted felons and some pretty serious obstruction allegations. As provably ridiculous as the FBI'S behavior was regarding Page my opinion is that the FBIs anti Clinton performance was actually worse in effect and now the DOJ (Barr) is doubling down on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 14 hours ago, Bob Ness said: Horowitz also agreed that the Russians interfered in a systematic and sweeping campaign to interfere in the 2016 elections which you dispute. Does the IG report confirm that for you or just the bits and pieces that you're inclined to agree with? Horowitz’s mandate was to investigate the FISA issues, and did no independent review of alleged Russian election interference. The extent he expressed “agreement” was limited to referral to conclusions made by other bodies - conclusions which are not supported by the evidence in the record and which therefore consist of opinion or belief. To the extent such opinions have appeared in legal proceedings, they have withered, as well described by Craig Murray: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/08/in-the-world-of-truth-and-fact-russiagate-is-dead-in-the-world-of-the-political-establishment-it-is-still-the-new-42/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 26 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said: Horowitz’s mandate was to investigate the FISA issues, and did no independent review of alleged Russian election interference. The extent he expressed “agreement” was limited to referral to conclusions made by other bodies - conclusions which are not supported by the evidence in the record and which therefore consist of opinion or belief. To the extent such opinions have appeared in legal proceedings, they have withered, as well described by Craig Murray: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/08/in-the-world-of-truth-and-fact-russiagate-is-dead-in-the-world-of-the-political-establishment-it-is-still-the-new-42/ Koetl's decision is that Trump, WikiLeaks et al we're not shown by the plaintiffs to be conspiring with Russia and in fact has nothing to do with whether Russia did engage in an effort to help Trump and or engaged in the effort. Your and Murray's "belief" in the "opinion" of a retired NSA employee who hasn't worked in that capacity for twenty years over the combined expertise of both private and government experts with authoritative and classified technical and physical resources is what I was referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 As everyone can see by his performance, if there had been anything to Russia Gate, Adam Schiff would have jumped on it like a mad dog. There wasn't. So he jumped on Ukraine Gate. And he got Pelosi to go along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 15 hours ago, Bob Ness said: Horowitz also agreed that the Russians interfered in a systematic and sweeping campaign to interfere in the 2016 elections which you dispute. Does the IG report confirm that for you or just the bits and pieces that you're inclined to agree with? The Page FISA fiasco and Steele's report is only part of the investigation which also included four now convicted felons and some pretty serious obstruction allegations. As provably ridiculous as the FBI'S behavior was regarding Page my opinion is that the FBIs anti Clinton performance was actually worse in effect and now the DOJ (Barr) is doubling down on it. I wonder if Jeff Carter has taken 30 minutes yet to read through the truly damning Mueller Report Illustrated. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/politics/mueller-report-illustrated/chapter-one/ The felonious Russiagate conduct of Trump, Manafort, Dowd, Sekulow, Cohen, and Giuliani is so glaringly obvious in the chronological sequence of the Report that a person would have to bury their head in the Fox News/Trumpaganda sand to avoid seeing it. As an example, after Dowd, Sekulow, Giuliani, et.al., had repeatedly floated pardons for Flynn, Manafort, Gates, and Cohen to obstruct the Mueller investigation, Trump actually denounced Michael Cohen, publicly, for "flipping," instead of "staying strong" and committing perjury, as Manafort did! (Manafort told Gates early on, "We'll be taken care of," and he lied persistently, even after cutting a plea deal to cooperate with Mueller.) In other words, Trump publicly advertised his campaign of obstruction of justice and witness tampering in the Russiagate scandal! Hello, Trumptopia... 🙄 Meanwhile, Jeff's hero, Vlad-the-Journalist-Impaler, has continued his relentless attacks on "liberal" democracy, at home and abroad. https://themediatimes.com/russian-authorities-storm-kremlin-critics-moscow-office/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 9 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: As everyone can see by his performance, if there had been anything to Russia Gate, Adam Schiff would have jumped on it like a mad dog. There wasn't. DiEugenio appears oblivious to former White House Counsel Don McGahn’s refusal to testify before the House on Trump’s extensive obstruction of justice, and the protracted court battle over that refusal. It’s been in all the papers — how could DiEugenio miss it? 9 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: So he jumped on Ukraine Gate. And he got Pelosi to go along. Almost the entire Dem caucus reacted with instantaneous revulsion to Trump’s extortion of an ally to meddle in our elections. No one had to get anyone to “go along” DiEugenio has photos of Martin Luther King Jr and Malcolm X on his website, but not once has he denounced Trump’s blatant racism. I wonder what AOC would think of such fecklessness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) Cliff said: It’s been in all the papers — how could DiEugenio miss it? That's fundamentally Jim's investigative style , he never follows the evidence, he follows only narrow lines of evidence that support some preconceived conclusion he has. People who have watched him blunder his way through the last few years should start considering that there could be fundamental errors in his investigation of the JFKA as well. as always, seek confirmation of other sources. Not only would AOC or Sanders be revulsed by Jim , Cliff. Imagine if Joe Kennedy or any of the Kennedy clan found out Jim's little secret life. They'd abandon him like the plague. Jim knows that, that's why I couldn't get a straight answer from Jim about any Trump culpability about anything for 3 years, and he's been one of America's undecided about Trump's own admissions about withholding taxpayer money to bribe a foreign power to interfere in our elections. Similarly , he'll stonewall any new revelations from the OMB, because it doesn't fit into his knuckleheaded story line. Just wait and see. Edited December 30, 2019 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) Kirk is really funny sometimes. I mean really. I had dinner with Bobby Kennedy Jr. in September. I won't say what exactly was discussed but, as a lawyer, he did not have kind words for Adam Schiff. And man, the idea we should trust the MSM on this🤣 Yeah, just like I trust them on the assassinations of the sixties, and the CIA and drug running. As James Agee wrote about people who would not see Zero for Conduct, go back to sleep Lucky Pierre. Edited December 30, 2019 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) Oh yeah?, and what did Bobby say?? heh heh Edited December 30, 2019 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) Bobby Kennedy Jr. saying negative things about Adam Schiff? And not about Donald Trump? I would be shocked to find that RFK Jr. didn't feel that Trump is 100 X worse for the country than Schiff. Or, maybe I and many others have a really misinformed and naive view of RFK Jr. and his true moral and political beliefs and principles? Edited December 30, 2019 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Robert Kennedy, Jr. does not have kind words for Trump: https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2018/04/18/robert-f-kennedy-jr-trump-administration-discrediting-democracy/483628002/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Robert Kennedy, Jr. and Adam Schiff have different opinions about whether children should be vaccinated. They are united in their opposition to Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 22 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: As everyone can see by his performance, if there had been anything to Russia Gate, Adam Schiff would have jumped on it like a mad dog. There wasn't. So he jumped on Ukraine Gate. And he got Pelosi to go along. Jim, Have you read the Mueller Report yet? The case against Trump for serious, recurrent obstruction of justice and witness tampering in Russiagate is overwhelming! I'm, frankly, amazed that Trump was not promptly impeached last summer for serial obstruction of justice in the Russiagate scandal. (Mueller indicated that he didn't indict Trump on ten counts of obstruction of justice because he was expressly forbidden by DOJ guidelines from indicting a sitting POTUS.) It was Congress's job to finish what Mueller was not permitted to do in the Russiagate case-- remove a criminal from the White House. One reason for the delay in a Russiagate-related impeachment is that Bill Barr has aggressively blocked the release of the unredacted Mueller Report to Congress-- which is still tied up in the courts. The other is that the Trump/Barr/Fox/GOP disinformation campaign about the Mueller Report has undermined public awareness and appropriate outrage about Trump's serial felonies in the Russiagate scandal. But the evidence of Trump's obstruction of justice in the Russiagate scandal is obvious, and the persistent GOP denial about Trump's Russiagate crimes is nothing less than bizarre. Whatever happened to the true narrative about Russiagate? It's a classic case of repeating the lie until gullible people believe it's the truth. Republican attempts to defend Trump and Barr’s 'no obstruction' decree are pathetic https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/06/12/republicans-pathetic-defense-donald-trump-obstruction-of-justice-column/1432533001/ June 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 William: Why do you keep on harping on this obstruction of justice charge? Don't you see? Trump has an out on that. And after the Horowitz Report its not just an excuse. The FBI abused the FISA process. And it was happening before the election. Even Comey admitted that. Something like 12000 applications and 12 rejections? Give me a break. A judge ordered a review of the whole process, which should have been done a long time ago. It was clearly being used as a fishing expedition for spying on Americans. When looked upon that way, then Trump was justified in firing Comey. But as Bannon said, that was a political mistake. Because it gave the Justice Department and the FBI the alternative of appointing a special prosecutor. Plus, it gave the liberal blogosphere the idea--Well heck, where there is smoke there must be fire. And Mueller went on for two years. And it ended up in smoke. Even Strzok said there was no there there. And he was in counter terrorism! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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