Mark Zaid, JFK and Trump

[Cory Santos]

In reading the media reporting today, I see that many are attacking the President for his decision.

So, I ask, was JFK also wrong because he allowed the attempts on Castro?

Was Obama wrong for the killing of you know who?

OR is it only when Republican Presidents do this it is wrong?

Asking for a friend.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Cory Santos

[Dennis Berube]

21 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

So, I ask, was JFK also wrong because he allowed the attempts on Castro?

Where would we find evidence of JFK sanctioning a Castro hit? Unless your including the bay of pigs, it didnt happen. 

Im not sure who Obama killed but I disagree with it regardless. 
 

Trump has repeatedly shown ineptitude when it comes to evaluating strategic military options and questionable intelligence. His Douma retaliation attack was a war crime in my opinion. Is this good enough trump bashing kirk? Or am i still a trumpenlike or whatever you said?

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, Cory Santos said:

In reading the media reporting today, I see that many are attacking the President for his decision.

So, I ask, was JFK also wrong because he allowed the attempts on Castro?

Was Obama wrong for the killing of you know who?

OR is it only when Republican Presidents do this it is wrong?

Asking for a friend.

It’s wrong period. But it’s a false moral equivalence argument. I agree that Democrats support crimes of Empire. But the Iraq wars dwarf contributions by Democratic presidents. I think it’s a 60/40 thing. Today’s Republicans are almost unanimously corrupted by Empire, and the Democrats somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2. The world is not black and white. 

[James DiEugenio]

JFK was not aware of the Castro plots by the CIA.

This is clearly denoted in the declassified IG Report.

After they were accidentally discovered by the FBI, the CIA told RFK they had ended.

That was a lie.  They continued.

As per Obama and OBL, I never understood that.  Once they found him, they had to have known he had a lot of material with him.  So why not abduct him, and then interrogate him based on that material?  

[Douglas Caddy]

The odds are inceasing daily that the Senate will conduct a fair trial on the House Articles of Impeachment and will convict Trump and remove him from office. Why? Because even Republicans in Congress are now recognizing that Trump is not just a loose cannon but a phycho lunatic as well. He declared war against Iran and did so without consulting anyone other than his son, Eric, and Senator Graham. Trump is so reckless that he could lead the world into a nuclear war on a 24 hour notice. Senators are coming to realize that convicting him of impeachment and removing him from office now is the quickest way to get rid of him before he can do any more mind-boggling damage. If the Republicans in the Senate do not convict and remove him, they will put their reelections in November in peril because rest assured Trump will do a number of things that will scare the pants off Americans and the world in the months between now and the November election.

[Douglas Caddy]

Trump will deliver the State of the Union address on Feb. 4. How many members of Congress will stand and applaud a president who has been impeached  by the House, is facing an impeachment trial in the Senate on convicting  and removing him from office, and has unilaterally declared war against Iran that has put the whole world on edge and at risk? Expect the furor over his actions to increase dramatically in the coming weeks as the fear rises that Trump is capable of doing anything,  including starting a nuclear war.

Then there is that on Feb. 5 the judge will sentence Roger Stone on his seven count conviction. This is the same judge that Stone publicly pictured being assassinated after he was indicted.

Then there is General Flynn who will soon be sentenced also by a judge who said his actions were treasonous.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Douglas Caddy

[W. Niederhut]

14 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

JFK was not aware of the Castro plots by the CIA.

This is clearly denoted in the declassified IG Report.

After they were accidentally discovered by the FBI, the CIA told RFK they had ended.

That was a lie.  They continued.

As per Obama and OBL, I never understood that.  Once they found him, they had to have known he had a lot of material with him.  So why not abduct him, and then interrogate him based on that material?  

Jim,

     There is compelling evidence, IMO, that Osama Bin Laden was a CIA-affiliated patsy in the PNAC 9/11 op-- the Great American Psy Opera-- used as PNAC's boogeyman to launch the "War on Terror" against Muslim "bad guys" in the Middle East.

     Sibel Edmonds, certainly, believed as much-- on the basis of her work as an FBI translator (Turkish, Farsi, Azerbaijani) after 9/11.

     The U.S. media, certainly, suppressed any coverage of Osama Bin Laden's public denials of any involvement in 9/11, (to Al Jazeera and the Pakistani media) and our MSM also actively promoted the forged (and mis-translated) tapes and videos in which Bin Laden, allegedly, claimed responsibility for 9/11.

     Nor is there any credible evidence that Bin Laden's CIA-trained "Al Qaeda hijackers" ever hijacked any airplanes on 9/11.  On the contrary, Raytheon had successfully tested their GPS remote-piloting technology for Boeing jetliners by August of 2001.   The PNAC 9/11 black operators didn't need any poorly trained Saudi goatherds to fly Boeings into their targets at the World Trade Center and in Washington, D.C. on 9/11.   But they did need some media-fabricated Muslim patsies to blame for their "New Pearl Harbor."

    So, if true, Obama and the CIA had no reason to interrogate Bin Laden-- if, in fact, he was even living at the ISI Abbottabad complex.  On the contrary, they had all the reasons in the world to deep six him promptly.

    

[James DiEugenio]

This is why I stay out of 9-11.

Sibel Edmonds:  Bin Laden’s group is planning a massive terrorist attack in the United States. The order has been issued. They are targeting major cities, big metropolitan cities; they think four or five cities; New York City, Chicago, Washington DC, and San Francisco; possibly Los Angeles or Las Vegas. They will use airplanes to carry out the attacks. They said that some of the individuals involved in carrying this out are already in the United States. They are here in the U.S., living among us, and I believe some in US government already know about all of this.

What she is saying is either, they let it happen, or there was criminal negligence.  Not what William is saying.

I only do the assassinations of the sixties.  

[Anthony Thorne]

In her article, those words you quoted appear in the context of a second FBI guy telling Sibel what a third unnamed informant - who was on the FBI’s payroll for a decade or more - had suddenly decided to tell them, based on information that the third guy had received from source number four - unnamed informants in Pakistan and Afghanistan who aren’t given any description whatsoever.

https://www.newsbud.com/2011/02/01/the-fbi-“kamikaze-pilots”-case/

And other than hearing what a great guy this anonymous, government funded informant was, we are told he was really reliable and trustworthy, although the specifics about what and why aren’t really noted. The guy then gives an ominous reminder to the assembled FBI folk at the end of his interview with them that his own sources are really reliable and that everyone should make sure his important info is passed on. The FBI folk who hear the story then type up the details, and add a helpful yellow sticky note to the sheet of paper reading ‘VERY URGENT - Kamikaze Pilots’, and then give it to their superior, who never does anything about it, and then the FBI folk get on with other things. Two months later the dramatic informant comes back and asks if the FBI are taking his warnings seriously, and the FBI guys get ‘exasperated and impatient’ with the question, and tell the informant they did all they could, presumably because they added that sticky note to the file they typed up. That’s the end of the story until 9/11, when one of the FBI guys locks eyes with another in front of the TV screens showing burning buildings, gives an anguished speech about how the FBI has failed the country by ignoring the informant’s warnings, and cries ”Why!? Oh God...” before running out of the room, then a second FBI guy three days later avoids eye contact before finally confessing  that the FBI commander had called everyone into his office and given them all a direct verbal order to cover things up, which is presumably how cover ups work there among the staff. This article appears a year before Edmonds’ first book, which is published two years before Edmonds’ second book, THE LONE GLADIO, which is a long, fictional account of a modern Gladio variant - Gladio B - which has never been referenced in any document.

Edmonds seems a nice lady and her anti war articles have been helpful, but her work gives me a headache and I could see her doing really well on a joint book tour with Judyth Baker. That noted, I don’t blame you for staying out of 9/11 stuff Jim, and I often ponder the same notion myself.

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Anthony Thorne

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

This is why I stay out of 9-11.

Sibel Edmonds:  Bin Laden’s group is planning a massive terrorist attack in the United States. The order has been issued. They are targeting major cities, big metropolitan cities; they think four or five cities; New York City, Chicago, Washington DC, and San Francisco; possibly Los Angeles or Las Vegas. They will use airplanes to carry out the attacks. They said that some of the individuals involved in carrying this out are already in the United States. They are here in the U.S., living among us, and I believe some in US government already know about all of this.

What she is saying is either, they let it happen, or there was criminal negligence.  Not what William is saying.

I only do the assassinations of the sixties.  

Jim,

     Not sure what you are referencing here.  My comments about Sibel Edmonds and Osama Bin Laden are from her Classified Woman text.

      But there is ample data from other sources regarding Bin Laden's (and "Al Qaeda's") doubtful connections to PNAC's 9/11 op.

1)  Robert Mueller said that the FBI "never found a single scrap of paper" linking Bin Laden to the 9/11 attacks.

2)  The mainstream U.S. media completely blacklisted the reports of Bin Laden's denials of involvement in 9/11.  Why?

3)   Conversely, the MSM aggressively promoted the fabricated evidence (video and audio) of Bin Laden "confessing" to involvement in 9/11.  Why?

4)   Unscathed Muslim passports were, obviously, planted at the WTC and Pentagon-- having miraculously survived explosions that completely vaporized the fuselage, seats, luggage, and passengers at the Pentagon crash site, and explosively pulverized two million tons of concrete at the World Trade Center.

[Cory Santos]

Wow.   Like I said this thread is no longer about JFK.  I guess Yeti sightings will be discussed next.   

Edited January 4, 2020 by Cory Santos

[Kirk Gallaway]

Dennis said:Is this good enough trump bashing kirk? Or am i still a trumpenlike or whatever you said?

I do find your choice of words interesting here Dennis. Characterizing our opposition as "Trump bashing" shows  some sympathy to the person being "bashed". as if it is not justified, and yet then you accuse Trump of a war crime. But how strongly do you really believe that? Should Donald Trump be impeached?

Jim, you mentioned on this thread that you would have impeached Bush for starting the War in Iraq. I know he is Trump but I know you're really into foreign policy, could you see it in your heart to impeach Trump now?

 

About my saying Trumpenlinks:

Dennis said:

Jeff you haven't blocked Cliff yet?

 

I notice every time I came to the top of the page and I see  you exhort Jeff (whose been here a long time and can probably make his own choices)to block Cliff. So you've barely been here any time at all and already you're blocking Cliff? In all my time here, I've never blocked anybody, not that I don't approve of the blocking function. And yet at the same time you attribute something Cliff has said to me! A phrase I've never used. (Trumpenlinks-Trumpenleft) I remember the genesis of the Trump German word connection here was started by Andrew P. as the "Trumpenleft". Cliff wanted to modify it to "Trumpenlinks", which I confess I didn't completely understand at the time until Cliff has now explained the in German "Left" is "links". As you see, I tend to remember who said what, though clearly you didn't in this case.

**************

This Trump hit is noteworthy. This was the last bastion of a point that Trump enablers (Jim, Jeff and I assume you Dennis)could make, following in this idea that nothing over 50 years has changed since the JFKA and there is a military deep state that is trying to throw Trump out of office because Trump doesn't fit into their plans for world hegemony. Now that reasoning is just plain out the window. I"ve never really accepted that as a current paradigm. I think that thinking does harm as the corporate state is happy that all this misplaced energy is diverted from them.

***************************

 

This is America,dammit!  If our President is a crook, he better be the best crook! That's just who we are. But this was not clever at all! Trump is a loose canon, and has handed himself to us to the point that some of us were so astonished , the American public  just couldn't believe a guy who could become President would have gotten this far without being in jail, which shows what money and privilege can do,

He was just begging us to put him in jail---Imagine the hubris this guy would have if he got re elected. You're really rewarding a poor effort.-All I can say, you guys who have given him a pass. I hope none of you have sons, because I'm sure they'll grow up to be hellions!

 

 

'Peach Dat!

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Kirk Gallaway

[Dennis Berube]

8 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

This was the last bastion of a point that Trump enablers (Jim, Jeff and I assume you Dennis)could make, following in this idea that nothing over 50 years has changed since the JFKA and there is a military deep state that is trying to throw Trump out of office because Trump doesn't fit into their plans for world hegemony.

Kirk, this is your projection of what my take on this stuff is. You and others do this when you read criticism of things like the Steele dossier and the rest of the process this thread covers. My guess is that its due to your hatred of everything Trump blinds you into an emotional response, consistently.

 

It doesn't take a grand jury investigation to determine very quickly that Cliff is not a positive poster in any way  and simply fires invective off at every chance. You know kind of like yourself who takes a small online discussion and ends up saying things like....

 

8 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I hope none of you have sons, because I'm sure they'll grow up to be hellions!

That's really great Kirk, very constructive.

[Paul Brancato]

Hang in there Kirk. And Cliff. All this Russia/Ukraine crap, all this Deep State conspiracy theory, is designed to distract and divide. Trump is clearly a horrible president, and in a country where the rule of law was not ‘Trumped’ by wealth the Donald would have been imprisoned long ago. What’s the point of intellectual arguments and historical connections based on once removed cousins (!!!) when what we really face is full on fascism and racism and sexism globally? Every clear thinking global citizen wakes up fearful of their future and the future of our planet, wakes up feeling powerless against the onslaught, all by design. Why would any Trumpers he arguing here? Goodness of their hearts, trying to educate us lest we forget that JFK and Trump are both victims of the same hidden force? How absurd. 

[Douglas Caddy]

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/01/trumps-threat-to-commit-war-crimes-against-iran-could-push-gop-lawmakers-towards-impeachment-ouster-cnn-analyst/