Mark Zaid, JFK and Trump

[James DiEugenio]

I would have to agree about Crossfire Hurricane being problematic and perhaps a pretext.

With the  Durham Report upcoming, and this one already out, its pretty easy to see why the liberal blogosphere has done all it could to spin these in advance.

The senate trial was always going to be an uphill battle. 

With this stuff, I now think it won't even be that.  It is DOA.

In fact, I now think it actually may backfire.

Edited December 12, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[Ty Carpenter]

15 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I would have to agree about Crossfire Hurricane being problematic and perhaps a pretext.

With the  Durham Report upcoming, and this one already out, its pretty easy to see why the liberal blogosphere has done all it could to spin these in advance.

The senate trial was always going to be an uphill battle. 

With this stuff, I now think it won't even be that.  It is DOA.

In fact, I now think it actually may backfire.

Senator Kennedy coined the term "Misfire Hurricane" yesterday. 

[W. Niederhut]

7 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I would have to agree about Crossfire Hurricane being problematic and perhaps a pretext.

With the  Durham Report upcoming, and this one already out, its pretty easy to see why the liberal blogosphere has done all it could to spin these in advance.

The senate trial was always going to be an uphill battle. 

With this stuff, I now think it won't even be that.  It is DOA.

In fact, I now think it actually may backfire.

          It's a truly historic disgrace for the GOP,  the Gas-lighting Old Party.   They're all staying carefully on message with their false narratives -- i.e., that the articles of impeachment aren't based on clearly established evidence of Trump's extortion scam in the Ukraine, (and blatant obstruction of the Congressional inquiry) and that his impeachment is merely a partisan attempt to reverse the results of the 2016 election.

          The conduct of Trump and his GOP Goon Squad in Congress this week (and in the mainstream media) is simply nauseating-- unwatchable.

          My question.  Why are so many people in this country willing to lie and enable Trump's sociopathic, blatantly illegal conduct?

          It's hard to believe that these are some of the same dishonest GOP goons who spent years "investigating" the Clintons-- including Kenneth Starr's five year, open-ended "White Water" investigation, Benghazi-gate, Email-gate, etc.-- and impeached Bill Clinton for trying to cover up details of a private, consensual sexual affair that had nothing to do with affairs of state!

          The best article I have read all year about the absurdity of the Trump GOP in 2019 was a piece published by Amanda Marcotte at Salon.com entitled, "How the GOP Trained Their Base To Ignore Trump's Criminality."

         It should be required reading in classrooms across the country.

https://www.salon.com/2019/02/20/numb-to-corruption-how-republicans-trained-their-base-to-ignore-trumps-criminality/?curator=MediaREDEF

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by W. Niederhut

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Robert Wheeler said:

I'll quote myself.

The bulk of the MSM, to use the onion analogy, is the visible outer skin, which is both thin and breaks apart in your hand.

Robert,

       In Trump's case, the false Trump/GOP narratives in the MSM are the visible outer skin of the onion, and the rest of the onion is completely rotten to the point of putrefaction.

     What amazes me is that so many people in America today are pretending that Trump's onion isn't rotten to the core.  It is.

     Does anyone on this forum actually believe that Trump did NOT try to bribe/extort Zelensky to engage in a smear campaign against Joe Biden, by withholding designated U.S. military aid and a meeting with the POTUS?

     Does anyone here actually believe that Trump did NOT repeatedly and aggressively obstruct the Congressional investigation of his Ukraine-gate scandal?

      Say it isn't so...  🙄

[W. Niederhut]

9 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said:

Come on Niederhut.

So much TDS for such a smart person.

It's as if you have skin in the game.

Maybe Warren can save you next year.

    Paul Krugman hit the hopelessly crooked Trump/GOP nail on the head again today in his op-ed, "The Party That Destroyed the Planet."

     What Krugman may not know is that there is no effective "treatment" for sociopathy.  The sociopaths of the Trump GOP will never become honest, ethical people until elephants learn to fly.

[Dennis Berube]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

What Krugman may not know is that there is no effective "treatment" for sociopathy.  The sociopaths of the Trump GOP will never become honest, ethical people until elephants learn to fly.

This is not a pertinent argument WD. Most of the upper leaderships of both parties are sociopaths in one form or another. The question is whether or not a POTUS is being attacked by intelligence manipulation which we have precedent and motive for, or whether this all makes sense on face value. Even the MSMs narrative is confused, but they are not allowed to question covert operations so we cant rely on them here, or ever. For example, the fraud of the Douma attack (and the recent OPCW revelations, which was obvious to most of us when it happened) which makes Trump and everyone in his defense administration potentially liable for a war crime, no discussion from Democrats like Schiff, or most Rs either. 

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Dennis Berube said:

This is not a pertinent argument WD. Most of the upper leaderships of both parties are sociopaths in one form or another. The question is whether or not a POTUS is being attacked by intelligence manipulation which we have precedent and motive for, or whether this all makes sense on face value. Even the MSMs narrative is confused, but they are not allowed to question covert operations so we cant rely on them here, or ever. For example, the fraud of the Douma attack (and the recent OPCW revelations, which was obvious to most of us when it happened) which makes Trump and everyone in his defense administration potentially liable for a war crime, no discussion from Democrats like Schiff, or most Rs either. 

Total false equivalence.  Trump's blatant corruption and misconduct in office has been truly unprecedented-- even in comparison with that of the corrupt administrations of Grant, Harding, and LBJ.

Secondly, Trump is not a "Deep State" victim at all.  He's a lifelong criminal who has repeatedly violated laws in office (and during his 2016 campaign) and has abused his official powers to obstruct Congressional oversight of his illegal conduct.

Meanwhile, his corrupt GOP goons in Congress have completely shirked their responsibilty under the Constitution to check Presidential misconduct-- opting to lie and gaslight the American people that they are supposed to represent.

The Trump GOP today is an historic disgrace.  Period.

[Dennis Berube]

2 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

He's a lifelong criminal who has repeatedly violated laws in office (and during his 2016 campaign) and has abused his official powers to obstruct Congressional oversight of his illegal conduct.

Like when Obama/Clinton illegally had the socialist leader of Libya murdered because he was threatening the financial system? Afghanistan? Or maybe when Clinton/Gore illegally bombed Serbia? Bush killing hundreds of thousands over a lie? The list is endless as we all know. How come those actions never had meaningful investigations in the US that led to impeachment proceedings? Because the MSM/deep state if you will, was on board. In a just world, most of these people would be in jail. We dont live in that world. 
Trump is historically awful, as was Nixon, but having an unaccountable network blackmail/control a Potus is much worse. A potus has to at least pretend his actions are for the greater good, intelligence networks dont. Withholding (questionable aid) aid for campaign help isnt good. Promising our enemies better deals if they prolong wars or hostage situations for personal gain (Nixon,Reagan) is worse in my opinion, Americans needlessly died because of it. 
 

[Bob Ness]

11 minutes ago, Dennis Berube said:

Like when Obama/Clinton illegally had the socialist leader of Libya murdered because he was threatening the financial system? Afghanistan? Or maybe when Clinton/Gore illegally bombed Serbia? Bush killing hundreds of thousands over a lie? The list is endless as we all know. How come those actions never had meaningful investigations in the US that led to impeachment proceedings? Because the MSM/deep state if you will, was on board. In a just world, most of these people would be in jail. We dont live in that world. 
Trump is historically awful, as was Nixon, but having an unaccountable network blackmail/control a Potus is much worse. A potus has to at least pretend his actions are for the greater good, intelligence networks dont. Withholding (questionable aid) aid for campaign help isnt good. Promising our enemies better deals if they prolong wars or hostage situations for personal gain (Nixon,Reagan) is worse in my opinion, Americans needlessly died because of it. 
 

The problem is Dennis when there is motivation to do something about it as in the case of Bush/Cheney/Iraq what is happening then is happening now under the cover of whataboutism. We can't provide a remedy because we didn't then? Even if the Ukraine story is 100% untrue, the obstruction isn't and that's what will ultimately damage the constitution the most. The refusal to recognize the Executive branch's obligation to uphold and follow the laws set by Congressional authority and the Senate's acquiescence is unprecedented and a true threat to the country.

Who says he'll respect the results of the next election (it was rigged!!)? Certainly McConnell won't if called upon it appears.

[Douglas Caddy]

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

W. Neiderhut said:

Does anyone on this forum actually believe that Trump did NOT try to bribe/extort Zelensky to engage in a smear campaign against Joe Biden, by withholding designated U.S. military aid and a meeting with the POTUS?

     Does anyone here actually believe that Trump did NOT repeatedly and aggressively obstruct the Congressional investigation of his Ukraine-gate scandal?

 

William, you know a number of us do just on this thread! And the majority on this forum. Who is always conspicuously absent in these discussions is Jim Di, who has been MIA on any issues involving Trump's culpability and now he's taking a stonewalling page from the Republicans.

*******************

 

Ty said:Senator Kennedy coined the term "Misfire Hurricane" yesterday.

 

Ty I think you're confusing Senator John Kennedy as one of the  Kennedy family politicians who incidentally  are in favor of impeachment. That's the same John Kennedy who said  it was the Ukranians who interfered in our election and has since reversed himself twice! I assume you're confusing him with the Kennedy family because that turkeyneck is hardly worth quoting.

 

***********************

Jeff, imagine how unstimulating your life would be without being a neighbor to the United States? I suspect that's true of a lot of Canadians, but you!, my god!

 

I'll give you some "Inside American politics", Jeff. The shoes always on the other foot. Who was trying to impose limits on FISA warrants back in 2013-14? It was the liberals, the Democrats. But  Mitch Mac Connell would hear none of it. It's just another political football here. But now it's so high profile, maybe something good will get done.

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Kirk Gallaway

[James DiEugenio]

The mess the USA made of Russia, through Yeltsin; and the Ukraine, through RIght Sektor /Swoboda and Nuland/Pyatt is a little mindboggling.

[Jeff Carter]

3 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

The refusal to recognize the Executive branch's obligation to uphold and follow the laws set by Congressional authority and the Senate's acquiescence is unprecedented and a true threat to the country.

Seriously? This is unprecedented?

As an observational fellow North American, I hope I am not exceeding my lowly northern status by noting that America faces an inevitable reset in its global position due to the following policies instituted by previous administrations:

1. the “war on terror” with its $6 trillion and counting price tag

2) the Patriot Act, which gives the corrupt establishment the tools to identify and neutralize all opposition

3) weaponizing the US dollar, using extra-territorial sanctions as a blunt tool of statecraft. this has already led to the irreversible momentum to supplant the dollar as world’s reserve currency, a status on which America entirely depends

[Bob Ness]

1 hour ago, Jeff Carter said:

Seriously? This is unprecedented?

As an observational fellow North American, I hope I am not exceeding my lowly northern status by noting that America faces an inevitable reset in its global position due to the following policies instituted by previous administrations:

1. the “war on terror” with its $6 trillion and counting price tag

2) the Patriot Act, which gives the corrupt establishment the tools to identify and neutralize all opposition

3) weaponizing the US dollar, using extra-territorial sanctions as a blunt tool of statecraft. this has already led to the irreversible momentum to supplant the dollar as world’s reserve currency, a status on which America entirely depends

Point taken and agreed. I misspoke. In relation to our internal political food fight, I would have to say the President refusing to adhere to laws and legal precedent to such a degree and the Senate Republican's head bobbing is something I've never seen and I'm not aware of anything in history close to it. The majority leader is essentially saying he's working with the WH legal counsel to subvert an impeachment trial.

[W. Niederhut]

    I, certainly, agree with Jeff Carter's point above about the egregious duplicity behind the Bush-Cheney administration's invasion of Iraq, and their bogus "War on Terror" (not to mention their involvement with PNAC and the 9/11 black op that launched that "War.") 

   And we can add the Reagan/Bush administration's Iran-Contra crimes to our list of major presidential misconduct (pardoned through the machinations of the promoted CIA lawyer William Barr.)

    But Donald J. Trump has, nevertheless, engaged in truly unprecedented Presidential misconduct-- telling 15,000 well-documented lies since January of 2017, engaging in massive Emoluments Clause violations, incessant obstruction of justice, witness tampering, bribery, and extortion.

    Here are some references on the subject.

 

Tracking President Trump’s Unprecedented Conflicts of Interest

https://www.citizensforethics.org/trump-conflicts-of-interest-tracking/

 

Historians on Trump: We've never seen anything like this

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/opinions/trump-impeachment-unprecedented-cobbs-longley-osgood-suri/index.html

Edited December 14, 2019 by W. Niederhut