The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Richard Price]

Another reminder of what we have lost.  This is a "Face The Nation" broadcast from November of 1967.  Less than seven months later, we became almost as much diminished (possibly more so) as we were on Nov. 22, 1963.

 

[Douglas Caddy]

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42568/skunk-works-boss-says-he-cant-comment-on-video-of-mysterious-stealth-shape-at-radar-test-range?fbclid=IwAR0_wIrtzm_bCuVIfs9zcMGT5zYSpM9dcHHpZoPBuSHXYTDWkPBUUHykC70

[Benjamin Cole]

 

Facebook warns whistleblower will allege on "60 Minutes" it contributed to Capitol riot

So, where does this lead? 

 

[W. Niederhut]

Trump Extremists Brought Numerous Guns on January 6th, Evidence Shows

Rioters at the Capitol carried concealed pistols, allegedly stockpiled weapons nearby, and called for overthrowing the US government.

https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2021/09/trump-extremists-guns-january-6-insurrection-congress-domestic-terrorism/

 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Trump Extremists Brought Numerous Guns on January 6th, Evidence Shows

Rioters at the Capitol carried concealed pistols, allegedly stockpiled weapons nearby, and called for overthrowing the US government.

https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2021/09/trump-extremists-guns-january-6-insurrection-congress-domestic-terrorism/

 

W.--

You can do your own primary research here:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases

According to official arrest records of those at the Capitol, exactly one was carrying a firearm. The one rioter carrying firearms was Christopher Alberts, who was also wearing body armor, and who was released on his own recognizance on Jan. 7. 

It has been confirmed at least one federal informant was in the scrum on Jan. 6. Other arrest records indicate informants were involved, but this cannot be confirmed, due to the use of cryptonyms. Informant "T-1" and so on. 

There is a long, long history of authorities and allied media exaggerating the threats posed by "domestic subversives" and "foreign enemies." I sense a replay here. 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

Add on:

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/frances-haugen-unmasks-herself-as-facebook-whistleblower-on-60-minutes

Daily Beast goes after Facebook (this joining the Wall Street Journal--- yes, the WSJ--- in bashing Facebook for hosting misinformation and hate messaging. 

I hope it goes without saying I oppose any form of violence or hate messaging, and as for misinformation and disinformation---well, my guess is 99% of misinformation and disinformation you read or see comes from the established legacy media and government, not from pitiful, anti-establishment outsiders. 

But that 1% of information not controlled by establishment platforms? That is going to get snuffed out too. 

The scrum on Jan. 6 means we must have much more censoring online and a much bigger police state.  Liz Cheney says so, and so does Nancy Pelosi.  

You see where this headed? 

[Steve Thomas]

REVEALED: Mike Flynn hid $200K payments for Middle East nuclear plan before joining White House

by Travis Gettys October 04, 2021

https://www.rawstory.com/michael-flynn-2655217298/

“Michael Flynn received $200,000 in undisclosed payments for consulting work in the Middle East before joining Donald Trump's administration.

The retired U.S. Army general was paid for his work in 2014 and 2015 on a plan to build 40 nuclear power plants in the Middle East, which never came to fruition but would have involved companies from Canada, France, Russia and the U.S. constructing and managing nuclear plants in Arab nations, reported the Dutch newspaper NRC Handelsblad.”

 

Gee, what could go wrong?

Steve Thomas

[W. Niederhut]

10 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

W.--

You can do your own primary research here:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases

According to official arrest records of those at the Capitol, exactly one was carrying a firearm. The one rioter carrying firearms was Christopher Alberts, who was also wearing body armor, and who was released on his own recognizance on Jan. 7. 

It has been confirmed at least one federal informant was in the scrum on Jan. 6. Other arrest records indicate informants were involved, but this cannot be confirmed, due to the use of cryptonyms. Informant "T-1" and so on. 

There is a long, long history of authorities and allied media exaggerating the threats posed by "domestic subversives" and "foreign enemies." I sense a replay here. 

 

 

Ben,

     How man of Trump's January 6th insurrectionists at the Capitol were arrested (and searched) on January 6th?

     Weren't most of them tracked down and arrested after the event?

     It seems like you're still having trouble getting an insurrection... 🤥

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ben,

     How man of Trump's January 6th insurrectionists at the Capitol were arrested (and searched) on January 6th?

     Weren't most of them tracked down and arrested after the event?

     It seems like you're still having trouble getting an insurrection... 🤥

W-

Not sure on how many in the Jan. 6 scrum then managed to run back outside and "escape," so to speak. Some did, but I do have a count. 

I have to say, if you are inside a building, that by definition has (relatively) small entrances and exits, and there are 6,000 Capitol Police and Metro Police in DC....the police could not even capture rioters as they left the building? 

The story line is the Capitol Police and DC Metro Police officials were waiting for the National Guard to be called up.

Does that make sense to you? Do you realize that when the National Guard is called up, reservists (who are generally civilians) have to assemble at Guard HQ's and then be trucked to location?  And the narrative is Trump didn't call out the Guard, so the 600-person scrum took over the Capitol? 

I dislike right-wing extremists too. However, more censorship and a bigger police state is not the answer. Some kooks will be on the internet. So what. It is the national town square. 

I am not afraid because 600 loonies took over the Capitol for a few hours. 

The Jan. 6 committee is political theater--but the danger will comes from the state and the Liz Cheneys, not from 600 marginalized weiners in the scrum. 

I do have a hard time getting it up for this insurrection.... 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

She (the "whistleblower") says she lost faith in Facebook’s commitment to protecting users after it disbanded the civic integrity team after the 2020 presidential race. Facebook said it distributed the work to different teams. But Haugen says Facebook stopped paying close attention, leading to the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol.

 

Well, we now know the rest of the story. Facebook did it! 

 

More censorship is necessary.

[Kirk Gallaway]

W:

How man of Trump's January 6th insurrectionists at the Capitol were arrested (and searched) on January 6th?

     Weren't most of them tracked down and arrested after the event?

Ben:Not sure on how many in the Jan. 6 scrum then managed to run back outside and "escape," so to speak. Some did, but I do have a count. 

I just came into this conversation. Ben, don't the arrest records you just provided prove that all of them escaped and none of them were arrested at the Capitol? Most were arrested by their photos and their own online accounts, phone numbers and other photo and eyewitness testimony, and testimony from family and acquaintances, at a lot of expense,  I assume?

So how can anyone , make any conjecture about the number of weapons carried by the rioters?

Ben: I have to say, if you are inside a building, that by definition has (relatively) small entrances and exits, and there are 6,000 Capitol Police and Metro Police in DC....the police could not even capture rioters as they left the building? 

Maybe you and I are in agreement. What kind of police state is this? Once they were assembled, you'd think they'd just enter at the exits and say. "Everybody down on the floor".

Ben:The story line is the Capitol Police and DC Metro Police officials were waiting for the National Guard to be called up.

Does that make sense to you? Do you realize that when the National Guard is called up, reservists (who are generally civilians) have to assemble at Guard HQ's and then be trucked to location?  And the narrative is Trump didn't call out the Guard, so the 600-person scrum took over the Capitol? 

No I wonder about that too. There was a lot of confusion about that. But I haven't heard your narrative that "Trump didn't call out the Guard so the 600-person scrum took over the Capitol". The explanation is given here with layers of bureaucracy.  It says here, in this AP fact check.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-national-guard-in-dc-c4c8f14643b6254e261aa0be0841e9e2

"Army leaders say the delay in the movement of Guard troops to the Capitol was because the initial agreement largely limited those forces to checkpoints and Metro stations and stipulated they would not go to the Capitol. As a result, authorities had to get approval for the new mission, then call Guard members to the armory, brief them and get them their riot gear, and then send them to the Capitol."

And yet it's said Trump was not part of that "initial agreement". Still, we know he could have called it off, but he chose not to. (like that isn't enough!)  I suppose if a Trump subordinate schemed the bureaucracy for that result we'd be hearing about it. But I haven't completely discounted that.

Gosh, could it  be just bureaucratic ineptness? But how could that be? Aren't they suppose to be the all powerful Government "Deep State" " Police State"?

If we could only fear them more. Wouldn't that answer everything?

 

heh heh

Edited October 5, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway

[Ron Bulman]

4 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

W-

Not sure on how many in the Jan. 6 scrum then managed to run back outside and "escape," so to speak. Some did, but I do have a count. 

I have to say, if you are inside a building, that by definition has (relatively) small entrances and exits, and there are 6,000 Capitol Police and Metro Police in DC....the police could not even capture rioters as they left the building? 

The story line is the Capitol Police and DC Metro Police officials were waiting for the National Guard to be called up.

Does that make sense to you? Do you realize that when the National Guard is called up, reservists (who are generally civilians) have to assemble at Guard HQ's and then be trucked to location?  And the narrative is Trump didn't call out the Guard, so the 600-person scrum took over the Capitol? 

I dislike right-wing extremists too. However, more censorship and a bigger police state is not the answer. Some kooks will be on the internet. So what. It is the national town square. 

I am not afraid because 600 loonies took over the Capitol for a few hours. 

The Jan. 6 committee is political theater--but the danger will comes from the state and the Liz Cheneys, not from 600 marginalized weiners in the scrum. 

I do have a hard time getting it up for this insurrection.... 

 

 

The insurrectionists didn't.

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

The insurrectionists didn't.

Ron B--

Maybe you are correct in your assessment of the insurrectionists. 

But even if you are, I still hold---

Until the insurrectionists are able to assassinate a US president (JFK) and then entangle the US into not one (Vietnam), not two (Iraq) but three (Afghanie) fantastically expensive but counterproductive and horridly inhumane wars, while converting media and both parties into corporate-globalist mouthpieces...

Then I will not worry much about the insurrectionists.

But they still strike me as 600 lulu's. 

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

W:

How man of Trump's January 6th insurrectionists at the Capitol were arrested (and searched) on January 6th?

     Weren't most of them tracked down and arrested after the event?

Ben:Not sure on how many in the Jan. 6 scrum then managed to run back outside and "escape," so to speak. Some did, but I do have a count. 

I just came into this conversation. Ben, don't the arrest records you just provided prove that all of them escaped and none of them were arrested at the Capitol? Most were arrested by their photos and their own online accounts, phone numbers and other photo and eyewitness testimony, and testimony from family and acquaintances, at a lot of expense,  I assume?

So how can anyone , make any conjecture about the number of weapons carried by the rioters?

Ben: I have to say, if you are inside a building, that by definition has (relatively) small entrances and exits, and there are 6,000 Capitol Police and Metro Police in DC....the police could not even capture rioters as they left the building? 

Maybe you and I are in agreement. What kind of police state is this? Once they were assembled, you'd think they'd just enter at the exits and say. "Everybody down on the floor".

Ben:The story line is the Capitol Police and DC Metro Police officials were waiting for the National Guard to be called up.

Does that make sense to you? Do you realize that when the National Guard is called up, reservists (who are generally civilians) have to assemble at Guard HQ's and then be trucked to location?  And the narrative is Trump didn't call out the Guard, so the 600-person scrum took over the Capitol? 

No I wonder about that too. There was a lot of confusion about that. But I haven't heard your narrative that "Trump didn't call out the Guard so the 600-person scrum took over the Capitol". The explanation is given here with layers of bureaucracy.  It says here, in this AP fact check.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-national-guard-in-dc-c4c8f14643b6254e261aa0be0841e9e2

"Army leaders say the delay in the movement of Guard troops to the Capitol was because the initial agreement largely limited those forces to checkpoints and Metro stations and stipulated they would not go to the Capitol. As a result, authorities had to get approval for the new mission, then call Guard members to the armory, brief them and get them their riot gear, and then send them to the Capitol."

And yet it's said Trump was not part of that "initial agreement". Still, we know he could have called it off, but he chose not to. (like that isn't enough!)  I suppose if a Trump subordinate schemed the bureaucracy for that result we'd be hearing about it. But I haven't completely discounted that.

Gosh, could it  be just bureaucratic ineptness? But how could that be? Aren't they suppose to be the all powerful Government "Deep State" " Police State"?

If we could only fear them more. Wouldn't that answer everything?

 

heh heh

1. If party lines are important, the Capitol Police and DC Metro Police report to the D-Party, not the US President. 

2. The two police departments appeared to abandon their posts Jan. 6. 

3. I have not gone through the 600 arrest reports, and counted how many were arrested on the spot, or later. Mr Buffalo Horns, a penniless individual, somehow got himself to DC to Jan. 6, played to crowds inside the Capitol, escaped the scene despite his distinctive sartorial splendor, and then rode busses back home to Phoenix, where he turned himself in to the local FBI office, and has been in jail ever since. 

4. Of those arrested at the Capitol or in the grounds, only one was carrying a firearm.  It is possible some escaped the scene and were armed. 

5. Obviously, any large organization, Deep State, Police State or otherwise, is often (usually) clunky on the ground level. Egads, check out the US departure from Afghanistan, capped by the assassination of a innocent family of 10. The Deep State is capable of world-class horrific bungling. 

Add on, tales of Soviet-era bureaucratic claptrap, bungling and incompetence are legion.

But to thus argue there is not a Deep State is...missing the point.

Sadly, the Deep State seems to becoming "smarter" thanks to radically improved surveillance techniques. Witness the social-media spying and tracking that allowed arrests days and weeks  after the scrum on Jan. 6. I guess in the old days, all those lulu's would have gotten away.

Perhaps Jan. 6. was  just a scrum enabled and financed by federal informants, that got out of hand. 

But the DC and Capitol police response boggled the imagination. One might assume the occupants of the Capitol, who texted in real time they were "let in," appraised the situation correctly. 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Benjamin Cole
typo

[Ron Bulman]

Regarding the never before breached Capitol, the 600 arrested and thousands more inside and outside . . . 

Mike Pence just said something absolutely ridiculous about January 6 (msn.com)