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The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

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14 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

Bob, the Cold War ended in 1991. Even if some apparatchiks in the State Dept and NATO hdq feel compelled to start it all up again, the rest of us don't have to go along. Chill out.

What are you talking about? Are you serious Jeff? Novichok anyone? There's more FSB/SVR/GRU in the states now than there ever were KGB etc during the cold war.

When a "democratically elected" leader of a country seizes control over the military, judicial, intelligence and law enforcement agencies of their country what do YOU call that Jeff? Fascists maybe?

Your uninterrupted, slavish devotion to Putin and the Russian Federation without questioning any of their actions or policies is ridiculous. Bot-like. I've never defended the shenanigans the US has engaged in to the extent you do the Russ-Fed.

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6 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

America First Caucus Policy Platform

pages 1 - 7




If you ever wanted to know what xenophobia means, read this document.


Steve Thomas

More evidence that the Trump GOP is a fascist party predicated mainly on white identity politics.  Us vs. Them.

They can't very well get elected on the basis of their real agenda-- cutting taxes for billionaires and de-regulating corporate polluters and profiteers.

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2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

More evidence that the Trump GOP is a fascist party predicated mainly on white identity politics.  Us vs. Them.

They can't very well get elected on the basis of their real agenda-- cutting taxes for billionaires and de-regulating corporate polluters and profiteers.

I think McCarthy agrees with you.

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Jim Di has never been one for nuance, grey areas or both sides of a story and at least use to  push his narrative like inbox boner pills. How nice it must be to be so certain!
Jim said: Those nutty neo Nazis we backed in Ukraine are about to light tinder to a conflagration they will lose in spades.
Yes Jim and Ollie Stone, like Putin  have been warning us about a fascist takeover for about 6 years. But what happened? The Ukranian people  overwhelmingly elected a comedian no less, and overturned over 80% of their parliament. You got to admit, that sounds pretty cool! It would never happen here. But of course it's not the same.
It sounds like Jim's   chomping at the bit for a bloody fascist take over in Ukraine  just so he could say that him and Ollie Stone after so many years, actually turned out to be right. Who can say if  that is inevitable, but  6 years without the worst is 6 years without the worst!
Jeff is generally more nuanced and is very astute about issues such as climate change and the covid pandemic. My criticism of both of them on this issue is this overwhelming desire  to see as the devil incarnate in everything the U.S. does. Do we have to get sucked into the this super hero and super villain thing?
U.S. economic imperialism is the next logical extension of exploitation following the complete rape of British colonialism, with a caveat that the U.S.  have developed a much wider means of persuasion and coercion at their disposal, so there's a greater variety of abuses. Because after all, who has ruled the world yet who didn't utilize the means at their disposal? But of course, even though the U.S.safety net, though inadequate  is much greater than Russia, somehow even an atrocious dictator with a greatly underachieving failed economy. (sorry to get economic with you guys, but to the vast majority of people, that does matter!) somehow comes out on top purely out of leftist rhetoric alone, with no regard for the working reality.
Anybody whose followed Trump at all knows he's continually in debt  making  massive payments and is about to face payments in the hundreds of millions. But when explained the possibility of shady debts to Russian oligarchs, why would that be so hard to believe? And then holding up the Mueller report as some sort of witch hunt that lead to exoneration is just another "oh duh", moment for the Trumpies that Jim and Jeff have joined the  ranks  and count themselves part of, when in reality the report never delved into the true motive. As with every thing else with Trump, his emoluments violations, everything of course gets down to money and finance. And we find out at the end they never even investigated Trump's finances!. But this of course is where Jim and Jeff's  investigative prowess miraculously  falls off a cliff at what I can only assume is a complete lack of financial literacy.
I've tried to appeal by using just logic on a very basic level as far as the computer hacking. As far as the extent of the damage that the U.S.could be claiming by Russian hacks, who really knows for sure? Certainly not the U.S. But that doesn't obscure the question, why wouldn't Russia hack us? I'm sure we hack them. It's the best kind of warfare, it's more abstract to every day people than dropping bombs. They can do a lot of damage relatively cheaply, with relative impunity. They'd be a fool not to do it. But somehow Putin's earned some sort of moral bona fides, that he would never stoop so low?
I don't know if you guys are just stuck in a viewpoint that if you give just the slightest credence  to any of these points, your argument starts quickly  eroding away, and soon becomes indefensible, which is actually true, and I at least give you credit for realizing that.
Edited by Kirk Gallaway
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8 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

It sounds like Jim's   chomping at the bit for a bloody fascist take over in Ukraine 

I know it's beside the point, but it's a pet peeve of mine.  It drives me nuts!  The phrase is "champing at the bit" not chomping at the bit.  There, I've said it.🙂

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Trump has always been enthusiastically willing to take money from anyone, no matter how corrupt.

Gotta deal with organized crime to get his hotels and casino's built?

Hey, no problem.

Trump actually said on a Dave Letterman TV show appearance "let me tell you...some of those people ( organized crime) happen to be very nice people." !!!

If journalist butchering Saudis are willing to help him and Jared out financially ( remember the Saudi threat of blockading Quatar which resulted in a Quatar funded Canadian company's 666 5th Avenue billion dollar boondoggle bailout) then Trump says (regarding the suspected Saudi prince) he told me he didn't do it, that's good enough for me. Nice guy.

Drug cartels and Russian organized crime figures buying up his condos and Florida junk house property and paying 200% of their true market value ( $100 million for the Florida junker ) and then re-selling these often at a loss. Money laundering do you think?   Hey, no problem.

Pardoning illegal foreign money deal perps Manafort and Michael Flynn and charity robbing Sloppy Steve Bannon?  Hey, no problem?

Getting hundreds of millions in loans from the most money laundering corrupt bank in history " Deutsche Bank " despite horrible bankruptcy debt and credit payment record... hey, no problem.

This guy would make a deal with the devil if it made him enough money.

The guy is first and foremost ... a money obsessed crook!

A totally amoral, Roy Cohn inspired/ Hitler speech and "Power Of Positive Thinking" book educated crook.

Smarter than Bernie Madoff though.

Edited by Joe Bauer
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